NYC777
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Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:01 am

Lot's of changes and a few surprises:

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

737s:

Pick of 36 orders

Egypt Air 6 x 737 (Previous order that was a UFO)
Ryanair 32 x 737
Travel Services 2 x 737-900
BBJ 2 x 737BBJ

747s

Pick up of 16 orders

BBJ 3 x 747BBJ!!!!!!
UFO 13 x 747-8 (I or F)

767s

Pick up of 4 orders

UFO 4 x 767s

787

Pick up of one order

BBJ 1 x 787BBJ!

They still have to book SQ's 787s which will probably be updated next week.
Let all the speculation begin!

[Edited 2006-10-05 19:03:10]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Tifoso
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:08 am

The 13 x UFO 748s are probably freighters. Check this post from TrevD last week:
RE: Boeing Orders For 9/27/06 (by Trevd Sep 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=3011975&s=#ID3011975
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:12 am

All the new 747 orders have to be 747-8s (including the BBJ) as all available 744 delivery slots are sold out and Boeing is now selling the 748 slots only.
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NYC777
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:24 am

The 747 BBJ this week certainly have to be the 747-8I version. So the 748I has 4 firm orders all VIP.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
n844aa
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:28 am

723 net orders! It's getting pretty late in the year to think about breaking 1000 again, but it's absolutely not out of the realm of possibility -- obviously they're just a little behind the pace necessary to make that happen. It sure would help if AA decided to bite the bullet and pick up a nice batch of 787s ...

And the 767 keeps working her way toward 1000. Wonder if she'll hit it.

Congrats, Boeing. Hell of a year, and not a bad week. Not a bad week at all.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:38 am

Well you have EK to decide on their 100 plane order though I'm not sure when that will be and if it'll be firmed up before year end. Remember that the 730 total doesn't include the 20 787s for SQ which will probably appear next week. That's 750. Another 250 to go? Not out the realm of possiblity.
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futurecaptain
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:49 am

126 unidentified orders?
Seems alot of airlines don't want us knowing what they are buying.
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6):
126 unidentified orders? Seems alot of airlines don't want us knowing what they are buying.

There are many reasons why airlines wish to delay their announcements for a period of hours, days, or even weeks. I'm sure we'll know shortly who is getting what and when.  Smile
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
There are many reasons why airlines wish to delay their announcements for a period of hours, days, or even weeks. I'm sure we'll know shortly who is getting what and when.

Hell, BCA has 43 orders from July, 2000 through December, 2005 that have not been publically linked to a particular customer. 23 of those are from CY2005.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
ghost77
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:26 am

My bet goes for LAN going for more B767s!!!

g77 APM
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deltadc9
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 4):
And the 767 keeps working her way toward 1000. Wonder if she'll hit it.

Seems to be a Boeing tradition....
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n844aa
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 5):
That's 750. Another 250 to go? Not out the realm of possiblity.

Y'know, come to think of it, if Boeing extended the sellin' season out to, oh, say, mid-January 2007, that would put them in line to sell exactly 1000 airframes. They ought to keep that in mind.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
And the 767 keeps working her way toward 1000. Wonder if she'll hit it.

Think Air Force  Smile
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting N844AA (Reply 11):
That's 750. Another 250 to go? Not out the realm of possiblity.

In the last 3 months of 2005 boeing secured something like 385 orders , so getting 200-250 orders this time doesnt look that unlikely.

[Edited 2006-10-05 23:09:00]
 
Glom
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:31 am

B..... B..... J.....!!!

And who the smeg is ordering 767s at this time of life?

When are they going to update the standard reports?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 14):
And who the smeg is ordering 767s at this time of life?

LAN or NH have been taking them as of late, so perhaps they want more? I am sure Boeing is "fire-saleing" them to keep the line and suppliers open until the USAF decides which way they want to go with the tanker program.
 
beech19
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 9):
My bet goes for LAN going for more B767s!!!

Agreed. BUT there is a mystery 767 purchase for an unknown amount and all it says on the customer write ups is "equipped similarly to..." and an airlines name. Who knows what that means... its not listed as a order anywhere yet but has been being worked for some time.

Quoting N844AA (Reply 11):
Y'know, come to think of it, if Boeing extended the sellin' season out to, oh, say, mid-January 2007

And then i would have to say that Boeing would be cheating like Airbus did last year.  duck 

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 12):
Think Air Force

yeah... that would push it WAY over 1000. That is possibly 200+ airframes. That is, unless Boeing presents a 777 tanker to them.
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futurecaptain
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 16):
That is possibly 200+ airframes

And keep the line open for what? 3 or 4 more years? Good run for an airframe so "late" in its life.
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bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 16):
yeah... that would push it WAY over 1000. That is possibly 200+ airframes. That is, unless Boeing presents a 777 tanker to them

The problem is that boeing will most likely not present the 777 as it has issues with take off distances aswell as with runway stress etc etc Boeing site similar reasons as helping the KC 767 over the KC30 so it would be kinda dum to turn around and offer a even heavier aircraft . the 777 wont be offered this time around IMO , it would be for the next round or KCX competition which would be even more lucrative where the 777 should get a good run for its money from the KC30 . Moreover boeing can fit the KC767 in allready existing hangers whereas both the KC30 and KC777 require either hanger upgrades or folding wings etc etc . I believe the order for the KC767 or KC30 will be for around 100-160 aircrafts all new !
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:26 am

The 14 747's are 748F's:

Seattle Times

Quote:
Thursday's tally also included new orders from unidentified customers for 14 of the $280 million freighter version of the 747-8 plus four 767 jets.


[Edited 2006-10-06 01:28:41]
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airfrnt
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):
Quoting Beech19 (Reply 16):
yeah... that would push it WAY over 1000. That is possibly 200+ airframes. That is, unless Boeing presents a 777 tanker to them

The problem is that boeing will most likely not present the 777 as it has issues with take off distances aswell as with runway stress etc etc Boeing site similar reasons as helping the KC 767 over the KC30 so it would be kinda dum to turn around and offer a even heavier aircraft . the 777 wont be offered this time around IMO , it would be for the next round or KCX competition which would be even more lucrative where the 777 should get a good run for its money from the KC30 . Moreover boeing can fit the KC767 in allready existing hangers whereas both the KC30 and KC777 require either hanger upgrades or folding wings etc etc . I believe the order for the KC767 or KC30 will be for around 100-160 aircrafts all new !

Actually, Boeing is now going to present both the KC767 and the KC777 to the Air force as part of some new requirements.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 20):
Actually, Boeing is now going to present both the KC767 and the KC777 to the Air force as part of some new requirements.

If the seatle post intel. is to be believed then boeing is on record of saying that they would consider the 777 but would make only one bid !!
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:09 am

SI reports that there are 14 748F's on order and 2 vip 748I's on order !!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...gy/2003290459_webbdigboeing05.html
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):
The problem is that boeing will most likely not present the 777 as it has issues with take off distances aswell as with runway stress etc etc...

I would think neither would be an issue at a USAF base which have very long runways and strengthened tarmacs.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:16 am

But it does with some NATO bases , AFM did a very extensive story on it some time back for NATO missions . Italy also considered this the only advantage the KC767 had while dealing with some of the bases . Here is the article -

Quote:
The ACN is determined by the number and separation of wheels, tire pressure and weight of the aircraft. The numbers are on a scale of 0-100, with a P-3 at 44 and a C-141 at 78. THe ITAF says the 767 comes in at 48. However, the number is dependent on runway type and grade. Since many military fields have a much weaker strength than commericial international airports, a lower ACN means that an aircraft can carry a larger percentage of its maximum fuel with less risk of damaging runways and taxiways.

"In Australia, you need refueling so you can go to another part of the world. We have our operations focused mainly on the Mediterranean, North Africa and some deep in the East."

"The A310 had the lowest cost, but it could only meet part of the freight capacity," says Lt. Col. Fabio Nuccetelli of the ITAF general staff logistics department. "The A330 was more expensive; but more importantly, it was too big for the runway size of many NATO bases. Finally (since in 2006 EADS's tanker program was just getting started) the maintenance and logistics support plan was not as well defined as Boeing's in terms of performance, time and industrial offset issues."

And in the most practical terms, the A330 footprint didn't match facilities at the tankers home base of Practica di Mare AFB in west of Rome. The A330s wingspan is 64 meters and the hangers are 60 meters square.
"That would mean rebuilding everything. It was the wrong shape for us. We have to modify our 707 hangers to let the tail of the 767 go in, but we're not rebuilding the whole hanger.
"Boeing was aware of the cost and political difficulty of upgrading Pratica di Mare's infrastructure and runways, so we made the trade from KC-707s to KC-767s based on the cost of the logistics system, training, adjusting the organizations and the limiting size of the hangers ... it was the most practical solution and best sized in particular to Practica di Mare."

Apparently USAF had similar concerns with the KC30 in addition to the hanger infrastructure issues , moreover the E-10 has allready selected the 767 as a platform so there is commonality involved aswell ( although the E-10 is on the brink of being cancelled) .
 
jfk777
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:57 am

Great to see 748 I for BBJ use. These orders must be from Arab countries replacing their 747SP fleets. Most 747's for executive use are for the middle east market.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:52 pm

My guess is we'll see a lot of 748I orders. I guess this b/c those who RR will either go with GE or the 748I.
A380 Delay Forces RR To Suspend Trent Production (by Leelaw Oct 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 25):
Great to see 748 I for BBJ use. These orders must be from Arab countries replacing their 747SP fleets. Most 747's for executive use are for the middle east market.

Exactly what I was thinking.

MCOflyer
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):
The problem is that boeing will most likely not present the 777 as it has issues with take off distances aswell as with runway stress etc etc

What makes you think that the A330 doesn't also have these issues for the NATO airfields you're citing?
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beech19
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):
The problem is that boeing will most likely not present the 777 as it has issues with take off distances aswell as with runway stress etc etc

Number one. I wasn't really just stirring the pot. I know for a fact that boeing has been discussing a KC777 and would put in a bid if requested by the USAF. In fact there IS the possibility that the USAF would bring both a KC767 and a KC777 combination into service. The KC777 being the KCX platform with possibly a triple boom. (VERY interesting!!!)

As far as takeoff distances and weight... the USAF has heavier aircraft than a "KC-777" would be already in the inventory and with longer takeoff runs. (aka: C-5). Anywhere you can land/store a C-5 you can a 777 aircraft.

As far as the USAF ever actually purchasing the KC30 you can forget that. They looked at it for diplomatic reasons but does anyone actually think they would buy it? NO, and they have made it very clear they do not want it (for more than its size).

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 24):
E-10 has allready selected the 767 as a platform so there is commonality involved aswell

Yeah... "commonality." The KC767 would be a 200ER model and the E-10A was going to be a 767-400ER. The airframe is still on order but the E-10A has been squashed.
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DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:17 am

Thefolks at Boeing have said the 777 will only be presented as an option IF the requirements of the USAF change. Reason: It will take 3 years to modify the 777 into a tanker. Boeings words, not mine.

The orders on the commercial side look great.

I am flabbergasted at the prospect of a 747 BBJ....
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beech19
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 29):
I am flabbergasted at the prospect of a 747 BBJ....

yeah its nuts to think about that price tag. All done up in a VIP "business setting" could be a $400 million aircraft when all is said and done.
If its a Royal aircraft(adding all the gold and other rediculous things to put into a plane) it could be well over half a BILLLLLLION!

*faints*  Wink
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Summa767
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 6):
126 unidentified orders?

I have a feeling that 45 out of those will have a name next to it by Monday evening  Smile
BTW, I think that the 4 767s could be AV. They need stop gap aircraft to support their growth whilst a new generation of long haulers are delivered in 2010 or so.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 28):
In fact there IS the possibility that the USAF would bring both a KC767 and a KC777 combination into service.

Which could make sense, ala the current fleet of KC-135s and KC-10s.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:32 am

Yes but the bigger version would most likely be selected for the second KCX order which should be larger . This one should go to the KC767 , the 777 will have its day!
 
beech19
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 31):
I have a feeling that 45 out of those will have a name next to it by Monday evening

You know something! LOL Do tell! hint?

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 33):

Agreed. We had a slight mis-com there.  Smile
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Summa767
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 34):
You know something! LOL Do tell! hint?

Actually, the hint was in the post itself when I mentioned AV. I have a hunch that AV will make an official announcement on Monday.They have invited the press to the presentation of a refurbished domestic terminal in BOG. I just feel that they might well take the opportunity to talk about aircraft orders too, as we've been expecting one any moment. Only 3 days to see if I'm right about this.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 25):
Great to see 748 I for BBJ use. These orders must be from Arab countries replacing their 747SP fleets. Most 747's for executive use are for the middle east market.



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 29):
I am flabbergasted at the prospect of a 747 BBJ....



Quoting Beech19 (Reply 30):
yeah its nuts to think about that price tag. All done up in a VIP "business setting" could be a $400 million aircraft when all is said and done. If its a Royal aircraft(adding all the gold and other rediculous things to put into a plane) it could be well over half a BILLLLLLION!

It sure looks as if the Sheiks and Sultans are trading in their current rides for the latest models. There could be takers for VIP 744s but I wonder who might be interested in used VVIP 747SPs?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Glom
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 36):
There could be takers for VIP 744s but I wonder who might be interested in used VVIP 747SPs?

747SP is too squashy. It's like the A380. Too squashy!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:44 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 36):
There could be takers for VIP 744s but I wonder who might be interested in used VVIP 747SPs?

Maybe they'll hang a big fluorescent green "Sale" tag on the cockpit window and put them at the front of the "Previously Flown" lot to try and garner the attention of planes taxiing by...  Silly
 
ptharris
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
Quoting N844AA (Reply 4):
And the 767 keeps working her way toward 1000. Wonder if she'll hit it.

Seems to be a Boeing tradition....

Buddy of mine works on the 767 line. According to him, there's no stopping the line anytime soon. They're all "asses and elbows" 12-14 hours a day even on weekends to get orders filled. They're plucking A & P mechanics like harvest time at a vineyard. I would imagine that once the 787 line goes active, they'll be doing it again and if you have a specialty in composites, your golden.

But yeah.. I see 1000 in the future and the odometer to keep going beyond that.
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bringiton
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RE: Boeing's Orders For 10/3/06

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:16 am

It shouldnt be that hard to get the 27 orders they need specially in lieu of the KC767 bid and high chances that boeing might pull it off with the 767 in which case it would be well over the 1000 mark . Actually come to think of it the overall long term KCX competition might be enough to have both the 767 and 777 go over 1000 even if they get no more commercial orders ( highly unlikely)

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