chrisa330
Posts: 545
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NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:04 am

72 aircraft ordered. 36 CRJ900 and 36 E175s, deliveries starting 2nd quarter 2007.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061005/cgth064.html?.v=51
 
bomber996
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:07 am

Well.... Here's the start....

Peace   

[Edited 2006-10-05 23:08:36]
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
chrisa330
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting Bomber996 (Reply 1):
Well.... Here's the start.... Finally no more, "when will NW replace the DC-9?" threads.

Not quite!

"Discussing a future replacement for Northwest's DC-9 aircraft, Steenland said, "We are continuing to meet with aircraft manufacturers to review our requirements for a 100-seat aircraft that would replace our DC-9s."
 
KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:18 am

Quote:
An Airlink partner, to be determined at a later date, will operate the 36 Bombardier aircraft.

This could be what saves XJ if we're lucky.  crossfingers 
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:20 am

I don't think this order really replaces the DC-9 except for maybe a small number. The primary goals of this order is to replace the ARJ, open up some new long-thin routes and upgrade some markets currently flown with 50 seaters.

Hopefully, we can see some of those CRJ900's or E175's from MEM to PNS. The 50 seaters just aren't enough capacity.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:26 am

Make no sense to me why two different manufacterers were selected.  Confused
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
SESGDL
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:28 am

Can't wait to hear the "But they're in bankrupcy replies..." that would be so rampant had this been Delta. Anyway, good for NW. It's about time that they ordered some planes for Compass. But this isn't a DC-9 replacement so people should not from the start. The article clearly states that NW is reviewing an order for a DC-9 replacement, which would likely be the EMB-190/195 from thr rumors I've heard. They're gonna look great in NW's livery!

Jeremy
 
jetmatt777
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:30 am

Well, will we see the CR9 or E175 in OKC, I would rather see the E175 in NW colors, but OKC will probably see the CR9. ALthough we are getting a few of their DC-9's.

-Matt  Smile
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:33 am

I like this comment:

"The 12 first class seats, arranged in a one seat-aisle-two seats configuration, will have 36 inches of pitch, or space between rows. Coach class, arranged in a two seats-aisle-two seats configuration, will have pitch comparable to other aircraft in the airline's current mainline fleet."

I love how they are too afraid (embarrassed) to actually state the coach pitch.  Smile

On the bright side, I think it's going to be great for their customers to have the first class option on more of the network.

-Dave
-Dave
 
COERJ145
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:36 am

Good for NW!! Maybe they'll put a second MSP-TUS flight for the winter/spring months, as I remember it, the daily A319(sometimes swapped for the A320) goes out at around a 90% load factor, even in the summer.

[Edited 2006-10-05 23:59:53]

[Edited 2006-10-06 00:00:48]
 
af773atmsp
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:40 am

At least theres one good thing today since school was miserable. I was watching some DC-9s fly over the school. In 2007 I might be seeing some new NW aircrafts in town.  Smile
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
flyinryan99
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:40 am

Are the CR9s for anyone who bids to fly them or are they for Compass or Mainline? It specifically states the E175s are for Compass but doesn't mention the CR9s.

Thanks
 
planemaker
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
It specifically states the E175s are for Compass but doesn't mention the CR9s.

From the article... An Airlink partner, to be determined at a later date, will operate the 36 Bombardier aircraft.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
incitatus
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting ChrisA330 (Reply 2):
"Discussing a future replacement for Northwest's DC-9 aircraft, Steenland said, "We are continuing to meet with aircraft manufacturers to review our requirements for a 100-seat aircraft that would replace our DC-9s."

Airlines don't have to replace aircraft on a one-by-one or same seat count -to- same seat count basis. I expect these airplanes to be deployed in many routes flown by DC9s currently, so, yes, they are a partial replacement. Actually a cost effective way to shed seats that are now going to priceline or empty, but still maintain the same market presence.

I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 5):
Make no sense to me why two different manufacterers were selected.

It worked for AC. I'm guessing they got a decent deal on the CRJ900's in exchange for taking the 15 CRJ200's that they had rejected leases on.

They also might be less pricey than the 175's, so it allows them to offer an aircraft that is perhaps a little less desirable for shorter, less lucrative routes, while putting the 175 onto longer, more business-type routes.

If the thought of eventually merging Compass into mainline ever comes to pass, then the CRJ's would be in Airlink (consistent product) while the 175/195 (if ordered) would be in Mainline.

Just a thought.

-Dave
-Dave
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:47 am

Air Canada also split between Bombardier and Embraer, so there is precedent.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
COERJ145
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:57 am

Well, judging by seat configs from bombardier, looks like there will be a 34'' pitch in econ, and a 37'' pitch in FC.
Big version: Width: 509 Height: 86 File size: 15kb
The NW config will probably have the single econ seat removed, and have 2 FC seats added.(the seat map is for the CRJ-705, which is virtually the same as a CRJ-900 but with First Class added)
 
planemaker
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
It worked for AC.

Yes, but only because of the subsidized Canadian government financing.

The only reason that AC got the CRJ705 was because the Canadian government was able to engineer the sale as an "export" so that AC (a Canadian airline) could access the Canadian Goverment's Export Financing (through the government's Export Development Corporation). If this financing "sleight of hand" had not taken place, AC would not have bought the CRJ705.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 14):
I'm guessing they got a decent deal on the CRJ900's in exchange for taking the 15 CRJ200's that they had rejected leases on.

In NW's case it is a bit different. The CRJ200's were not returned to Bombardier but the Canadian Government (the Export Development Corporation) that financed the jets.

Many people mistakenly think that RJs are purchased on the basis of price/performance but, in reality, vendor arranged financing (typically government funds) is the critical factor.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
connies4ever
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 8):
I like this comment:

"The 12 first class seats, arranged in a one seat-aisle-two seats configuration, will have 36 inches of pitch, or space between rows. Coach class, arranged in a two seats-aisle-two seats configuration, will have pitch comparable to other aircraft in the airline's current mainline fleet."

I love how they are too afraid (embarrassed) to actually state the coach pitch. Smile

On the bright side, I think it's going to be great for their customers to have the first class option on more of the network.


Howdy -

I've flown AC's CRJ705s (CRJ900s configured for 9+64 pax) and the pitch in
the back is 32". It's not a bad ride actually. Looks like NW will squeeze in one more row of J/F, so I'm gonna guess in the back it will be 31".
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
stirling
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 15):
Air Canada also split between Bombardier and Embraer, so there is precedent.

As did American with the CRJ200 and EMB145.

Tells me the aircraft are probably very close in operation costs, but to gain the amount of aircraft they need, when they need them, the order had to be split between two manufacturers, i.e. one could not produce the 70+ aircraft on a schedule suitable to NW.

I wonder if there wasn't the nasty business of the rejected leases, and needing an 'out', if NW would have taken any CRJ900s at all?
From a consumer standpoint, I find the E-Jets to be a more appealing aircraft.
Delete this User
 
PPVRA
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 13):

I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.

Any chance they could have encountered scope clause difficulties? Also, I heard that they have some cash strapped with BBD, so that may also have influenced to some degree.

This deal may get NW better proposals for their DC9 replacement in the future.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
Tells me the aircraft are probably very close in operation costs, but to gain the amount of aircraft they need, when they need them, the order had to be split between two manufacturers, i.e. one could not produce the 70+ aircraft on a schedule suitable to NW.

I have the same opinion. Don't know Bombardier, but Embraer seems to be full of work on E-Jets line during the next 18 months.

Very good news for Embraer as they get another major customer in the US!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
pilottim747
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 13):
I still fail to grasp the reason for a CRJ-900 / EMB175 split.

One reason (as it has been explained before) is that by spliting the order NW can get the aircraft sooner. It would take forever for NW to get 72 E175s delivered. By spliting, NW can get a few early delivery slots from both manufacturers.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 9):
Good for NW!! Maybe they'll put a second MSP-TUS flight for the winter/spring months, as I remember it, the daily A319(sometimes swapped for the A320) goes out at around a 90% load factor, even in the summer.

You beat me too it! I was hoping for the same thing. This year from 12/20/06 to 1/2/07, NW adds an extra flight to MSP arriving in TUS at 11:15PM and departing for MSP at 8 AM. What NW should do, IMO, is give us two daily flights on the new RJ's (I don't care which one). They would leave at 8AM and Noon, and the returns would arrive in TUS at 10:30AM and 7PM. Those are times that most people would be willing to travel at, and the 8AM flight would allow for more connections in MSP. The flight they have currently arrives after a lot of the flights to the Southeast have departed. Some later flights do operate, but who wants to get somewhere between 11PM-Midnight while on vacation? And the return departs for TUS before many flights from that region can arrive.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
As did American with the CRJ200 and EMB145.

AA Eagle actually operates the CR7 and, IMO, the colors look great! Big grin


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AirRyan
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:03 am

I too believe the E-190/195 will be the follow on order to replace the remaining DC-9's; does anyone have any pics of a NW CRJ-900?
 
nwafflyer
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:16 am

What about flight crew training? Will the DC-9 flight crews be trained on either the ERJ, or the CRJ? What about Mesaba/Pinnacle/Compass - what type of training is needed there?
 
azjubilee
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:01 am

This is the carrot in the whipsaw game. My guess is that XJ will be the undetermined Airlink partner. Why else have they been maintaining the CRJ certificate for this long? It's all apart of the grand plan. XJ will fly the 36 -900s and the 49 saabs. Pinnacle will get their 15 parked birds back and maybe even the 2 XJ -200s. NWA will win again and the mgmt teams will be rewards shamelessly for their heroic efforts and brilliance at running an airline. This business is such a shallow sick game. It's too bad none of the sideliners know how to play!

Doesn't anyone see this as all too convenient in timing?

Disgusted,

AZJ
 
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United_fan
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:05 am

Hope they bring them to ROC,I need to see something other than DC-9's and XJ Avro's.
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:14 am

Dang ! I wanted to see all EMBs but oh well..... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that NW will order EMB-190/195s ! Congrats to NWA and Embraer and I suppose Bombardier.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
nitrohelper
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:29 am

Who is going to build the new 100 seat DC-9 upgrade? Will it be a stretch of something out there now , or a new tube&wings? (Russian maybe)
Will it be 4 or 5 seats across, and what sort of range with who's engines ?

Oct 2006 dc9 ver.01  wink   stirthepot 
 
COERJ145
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:33 am

Perhaps NW will upgrade the BOS-MEM flights to a CR9 or a E75. 3hrs 15 minutes in a CRJ-200 would be uncomfortable for me. I remember back in 2002 NW had the 727s on this route, then they got downgraded to CRJs.

[Edited 2006-10-06 02:33:58]

[Edited 2006-10-06 02:34:47]
 
ual757
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:42 am

I'm thinkin the new colors will look splendid on the new planes!

 Smile
 
ual757
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:44 am

I'm thinking the NWA colors will look great on the E175!
 
thegooddoctor
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 30):
Perhaps NW will upgrade the BOS-MEM flights to a CR9 or a E75. 3hrs 15 minutes in a CRJ-200 would be uncomfortable for me. I remember back in 2002 NW had the 727s on this route, then they got downgraded to CRJs.

Yeah, at least when they used DC-9s on the route, MEM was a stopover option. But if I have my choice now, MSP or DTW just to avoid the RJ.
The GoodDoctor
 
flyf15
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:01 am

So, there are 53 CRJs here that need homes.

36 CRJ-900s (new)
15 CRJ-200s (storage)
1 CRJ-200 (currently Mesaba)
1 CRJ-200 (currently Compass)


Does everyone agree with the idea that all the CRJ-200s will end up at Pinnacle and the CRJ-900s would end up at Mesaba? It has been previously said by an earlier poster, but I just wanted to bring it up again.

That would leave:

Mesaba
49x Saab 340
36x CRJ-900

Pinnacle
141x CRJ-200
 
worldtraveler
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:03 am

NW also rejected some CRJs as part of its bankruptcy proceedings. While the press release says that NW will take back 15 CRJs that were previously rejected, it doesn't say, nor do I know if there were more CRJs rejected. My gut says that NW was able to get rid of some CRJs but they were able to get better pricing on the 900s by taking some of the smaller planes back. And right now the indications are that Bombardier is discounting much more aggressively than Embraer.
 
Web
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:05 am

Most likely the 100-seat DC-9 replacement will be the EMB-190/195, since the CRJ-900 is the largetst BBD aircraft. Perhaps that is one reason why the order was split: plans to add the EMB-190 in the future for commonality then; CRJ-900s for commonality now.
 
KaiGywer
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 26):
This is the carrot in the whipsaw game. My guess is that XJ will be the undetermined Airlink partner. Why else have they been maintaining the CRJ certificate for this long? It's all apart of the grand plan. XJ will fly the 36 -900s and the 49 saabs. Pinnacle will get their 15 parked birds back and maybe even the 2 XJ -200s. NWA will win again and the mgmt teams will be rewards shamelessly for their heroic efforts and brilliance at running an airline. This business is such a shallow sick game. It's too bad none of the sideliners know how to play!

While I know it hurts what XJ and NW mgmt are doing, I would be glad to see XJ survive however. If this is what it takes to survive, shouldn't we look at that in a positive way?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 17):
In NW's case it is a bit different. The CRJ200's were not returned to Bombardier but the Canadian Government (the Export Development Corporation) that financed the jets.

Many people mistakenly think that RJs are purchased on the basis of price/performance but, in reality, vendor arranged financing (typically government funds) is the critical factor.

That adds a wrinkle to any procurement process I guess. I'd definitely go where the money is if I was ordering some RJ's. I'd hope that Brazil had the best incentives, though!

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 18):
Looks like NW will squeeze in one more row of J/F, so I'm gonna guess in the back it will be 31".

Ya, I wouldn't advertise that number either.  Smile

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 22):
One reason (as it has been explained before) is that by spliting the order NW can get the aircraft sooner. It would take forever for NW to get 72 E175s delivered.

Makes sense.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 26):
This is the carrot in the whipsaw game. My guess is that XJ will be the undetermined Airlink partner. Why else have they been maintaining the CRJ certificate for this long? It's all apart of the grand plan. XJ will fly the 36 -900s and the 49 saabs. Pinnacle will get their 15 parked birds back and maybe even the 2 XJ -200s. NWA will win again and the mgmt teams will be rewards shamelessly for their heroic efforts and brilliance at running an airline. This business is such a shallow sick game. It's too bad none of the sideliners know how to play!

Sadly, I'm sure you're right.

-Dave
-Dave
 
Dornier328Jet
Posts: 106
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:40 am

Good to hear! Always nice to see RJ's in new colors.

Granted the CRJ may not be the most ideal aircraft to fly on, but it is a good looking plane.
 
Skywatcher
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:49 am

I believe that a split order makes alot of sense. If one or the other of these manufacturers goes tits up the airlines are the ones that will suffer from the resulting lack of competition.
It is best for the larger RJ operators to keep both suppliers viable.
 
Tangowhisky
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Web (Reply 36):
Most likely the 100-seat DC-9 replacement will be the EMB-190/195, since the CRJ-900 is the largetst BBD aircraft

Unless Bombardier can pull off the C Series with NW as launch. But this is unlikely as I am sure NW can not wait 4-5 years for the C Series, and will probably opt for the 195
Only the paranoid survive
 
planemaker
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 41):
But this is unlikely as I am sure NW can not wait 4-5 years for the C Series, and will probably opt for the 195

Yes, aside from a 5 year wait for a C110, with E175s on the "property" there really is no compelling reason for NW to add yet another type to the fleet.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
IdaBoy
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:19 pm

Finally, a chance to get somthing other than a Bombardier into IDA...
 
HPAEAA
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 23):
Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
As did American with the CRJ200 and EMB145.

AA Eagle actually operates the CR7 and, IMO, the colors look great!

yep.. AA never flew the CRJ200.... the colors may look good but it's awfully uncomfortable on long hauls and well... they cxl a lot!
Why do I fly???
 
KingAir200
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:24 pm

Bombardier image of a CRJ900 in Airlink colors
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?...age%3Den%26action%3Dview%26cid%3D1

Embraer press release with pic
http://www.embraer.com/english/conte...press_releases_detalhe.asp?id=1386

[Edited 2006-10-06 06:31:44]
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:35 pm

Why is fleet commonality such a hard thing for airlines to understand. Why order 2 airplanes that seat the same, have the same engines but yet are totally different airplanes. That only adds to the costs of Mx and crew training. The only airlines that offer true fleet commonality are Southwest and Frontier. Do airlines always factor in the extra costs of crew training for each type, then the training for mechanics for different types, then to stock parts for each type and then there are the different performance specs for each airplane. The worst airline for fleet commonality is USAir followed by United. Oh and don't forget the passengers, instead of giving them a constant cabin type, they are subjected to whatever happens to be picked for that route.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 46):
Why is fleet commonality such a hard thing for airlines to understand. Why order 2 airplanes that seat the same, have the same engines but yet are totally different airplanes. That only adds to the costs of Mx and crew training.

The CR9's have commonality with the existing CRJ-100/200's, and the E175's have commonality with the soon to be ordered E195's.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
centrair
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:38 pm

It certainly will separate who is who. EMB...Oh its Compass. CRJ...Oh its someone else.

I wonder if NW will actually make these a little bit more "comfortable" like how AC or B6 has with their respective regional products?

Quoting KingAir200 (Reply 45):
Bombardier image of a CRJ900 in Airlink colors
http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?...age%3Den%26action%3Dview%26cid%3D1

Embraer press release with pic
http://www.embraer.com/english/conte...=1386


CRJ ....nice computer graphics

EMB looks very nice but the drawing looks flat as if it had been made with a very low grade program.

I was surprised by the statement at the top of the press release

Quote:
Options and rolling purchase rights encompass additional 136 aircraft

That is a lot more aircrafs....EMB190/EMB195s?

I wonder if the C-series had not been axed, would NW be ordering them instead?

[Edited 2006-10-06 07:40:04]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: NW Orders CRJ900 And E175

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 5):
Make no sense to me why two different manufacterers were selected. Confused

Sure it does. The CRJ9's have commonality with the rest of the NW Airlink CRJ fleet, the ERJ 175's will have commonality with the ERJ 190/195's that look to be the frontrunner to replace the DC-9s.

I think NW finally concluded CRJ-9 was not a viable replacement for DC-9, at least from the pax point of view.
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