MAH4546
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LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:06 am

LTU Airlines, who is attempting to better shed their holiday image by offering stronger frequencies on trans-Atlantic flights, will increase Los Angeles, Miami and Ft. Myers service to 5x weekly each this coming spring, continuing a steady build up of services to South and Southwest Florida that began three years ago. At the same time, service to New York City-JFK will decrease by two weekly flights, while Orlando will be discontinued. The new schedule will mean all four of their US cities will be served 5x a week, with the Florida destinations having service from both Dusseldorf and Munich.

LTU will fly non-stop between Miami and Dusseldorf every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday and non-stop between Miami and Munich every Thursday and Saturday.

LTU will fly non-stop between Ft. Myers and Dusseldorf every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday and non-stop between Ft. Myers and Munich every Wednesday and Friday.

LTU will fly non-stop between Los Angeles and Dusseldorf daily except Tuesday and Saturday.

LTU will fly non-stop between New York City-JFK and Dusseldorf daily except Wednesday and Saturday, which is a reduction from daily service.

However, the increased service comes at the expense of Orlando service. Last flight to Orlando, which was operated on a seasonal basis, is 30 October 2006.
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LTU932
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
LTU Airlines, who is attempting to better shed their holiday image by offering stronger frequencies on trans-Atlantic flights

What do you mean by that? Is LT still trying to be more like a scheduled carrier or trying to go back to the roots? I still have not figured out what LT's current business model is all about.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
will increase Los Angeles, Miami and Ft. Myers service to 5x weekly each this coming spring

Curious, I always thought LT was flying to MIA daily.
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:24 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):

What do you mean by that? Is LT still trying to be more like a scheduled carrier or trying to go back to the roots? I still have not figured out what LT's current business model is all about.

They are moving more to be a scheduled airline, rather than holiday, especially between the US and Germany.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
Curious, I always thought LT was flying to MIA daily.

Never. It was 2x a week during most of the 1990s, went down to 1x a week during early 2000s.
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LTU932
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:01 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They are moving more to be a scheduled airline, rather than holiday, especially between the US and Germany.

I still don't think it's the right business model. The LTU brand is known as one that stands for holiday flights and it will be very difficult for them to get this new image of a scheduled carrier.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
Never. It was 2x a week during most of the 1990s, went down to 1x a week during early 2000s.

I see. The only thing I knew of the MIA flight is that it used to have the SJO tag-on flight until the end of service to SJO in 1998. But other than that, I thought they'd fly there daily with one or two tag-ons a week, like MP used to do.
 
sflaflight
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:30 pm

well it's about time. I never understood what LTU was thinking of with their 1 weekly flight to MIA. LTU has constantly change flight days and routes. I even remember a triangle routing DUS/MUC-RSW-MIA-DUS/MUC at some point. That was a winner. Everyone was waiting at customs for the flight when it arrived domestic, ay! Anyhow, I flew them to DUS in 97 and it was a great flight. DUS was a great AP to land at, especially as a European backpacker. Flights seemed to be pretty full.

Non Stop, MIA-MUC is also desperately needed. Lauda flew the route but stopped. LH did it for a short while, then stopped.
BTW, does LTU still run its famous Munich shuttle (from DUS)?

I think the routing also makes sense to keep RSW over MCO. It allows for more flexibility, believe it or not for South Florida. Pax can fly directly to MIA and if they are in a hurry to return or in an emergency, they can land at RSW and drive into South Florida. There are many South FLoridians who now live closer to Fort Myers than to West Palm Beach or some parts of Miami. Very good for business pax!
 
miamix707
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:14 pm

Does the axing of MCO have to do with MCO having Condor, which no longer flies to south florida?
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 5):
Does the axing of MCO have to do with MCO having Condor, which no longer flies to south florida?

Very unlikely. Condor and LTU have both been flying, successfully, alongside each other to Ft. Myers for many, many years, as well as to Orlando. Condor has not flown to FLL (or TPA) for about five years now.

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 4):
I think the routing also makes sense to keep RSW over MCO. It allows for more flexibility, believe it or not for South Florida. Pax can fly directly to MIA and if they are in a hurry to return or in an emergency, they can land at RSW and drive into South Florida. There are many South FLoridians who now live closer to Fort Myers than to West Palm Beach or some parts of Miami. Very good for business pax!

I doubt we'll be seeing anybody doing that. Ft. Myers has a very large German community that is becoming increasingly year-round.

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 4):

Non Stop, MIA-MUC is also desperately needed. Lauda flew the route but stopped. LH did it for a short while, then stopped.

LTU has flown Miami-Munich since May 2004.
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:10 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
LTU Airlines, who is attempting to better shed their holiday image by offering stronger frequencies on trans-Atlantic flights, will increase Los Angeles, Miami and Ft. Myers service to 5x weekly each this coming spring



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
At the same time, service to New York City-JFK will decrease by two weekly flights

Someone want to explain why, if LTU is trying to shed a holiday carrier image, they are increasing RSW while decreasing JFK?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
miamix707
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Very unlikely. Condor and LTU have both been flying, successfully, alongside each other to Ft. Myers for many, many years, as well as to Orlando. Condor has not flown to FLL (or TPA) for about five years now.

I knew of LTU but wasn't sure if Condor flew to RSW. However Condor started flying to Orlando only about two years ago, although in the early 90s it might have flown a few charters to Orlando; I saw one of their DC10s in MCO once. LTU/LTUSud is the one that has been flying to MCO regularly since the mid-90s.
 
TriStar500
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:46 pm

LTU still has not figured out their future strategy and is increasingly becoming cornered by the three (in the future prtobably only two) big conglomerates in the German aviation industry: the LH Group, the AB Group (AB/DI), the TUI Group (HF/X3), with the TUI Group being rumored to strenghten their ties to the AB Group.
I don't think that LTU will survive in the current form - they will have to associate themselves with the TUI and/or AB Group in order to survive and not getting crushed by much larger competitors.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 8):

I knew of LTU but wasn't sure if Condor flew to RSW. However Condor started flying to Orlando only about two years ago, although in the early 90s it might have flown a few charters to Orlando; I saw one of their DC10s in MCO once. LTU/LTUSud is the one that has been flying to MCO regularly since the mid-90s.

Condor might have suspended service to Orlando at some time, but I'm 99% certain they were flying to Orlando (and RSW) back in 2002, when FLL and TPA were cut.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 8):
knew of LTU but wasn't sure if Condor flew to RSW. However Condor started flying to Orlando only about two years ago, although in the early 90s it might have flown a few charters to Orlando; I saw one of their DC10s in MCO once. LTU/LTUSud is the one that has been flying to MCO regularly since the mid-90s.

Condor been flying to MCO more than 2 years. I moved to Orlando in early 2003 and Condor was flying to MCO with 763s - mix of Condor and Thomas Cook (ie some days yellow tail, some days blue tail) in addition to Thomas cook serving SFB with A330s.

Not sure why LTU would stop serving MCO, it seems like a very good route.
 
travelin man
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 12:08 am

Does LTU rely on German traffic for the most part? I noticed LTU at LAX a few weeks ago, and I thought it was a Charter. As far as I know, I've never seen an LTU advertisement here in LA, and LAX-DUS seems like a somewhat odd route, when we do not even have LAX-MXP, LAX-MAD, or LAX-FCO.

I guess there is enough profitable traffic to sustain (and increase) the route, but is it mostly German traffic? I doubt if you asked 10,000 people here in LA what LTU was, or where they flew, that you would get one person to respond correctly.
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
Does LTU rely on German traffic for the most part? I noticed LTU at LAX a few weeks ago, and I thought it was a Charter. As far as I know, I've never seen an LTU advertisement here in LA, and LAX-DUS seems like a somewhat odd route, when we do not even have LAX-MXP, LAX-MAD, or LAX-FCO.

Not sure about Los Angeles, but in the Miami and Ft. Myers area, they have a good reputation among locals for providing affordable fares to Europe, and they advertise on local television channels. Still, most of the travelers are probably German.
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miamix707
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 11):
Condor been flying to MCO more than 2 years. I moved to Orlando in early 2003 and Condor was flying to MCO with 763s



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Condor might have suspended service to Orlando at some time, but I'm 99% certain they were flying to Orlando (and RSW) back in 2002, when FLL and TPA were cut.

I just found a press release from Nov of 2002 saying MCO was glad to add service from a new airline, Condor which would start service from May '03 to FRA. I said about 2 years, so it's 3, I wasn't too far off Smile I remember FLL was cut in '02 as you said.

Although, looking at the a.net database the earliest pics of Condor/Thomas Cook at MCO are from September '04. Either way, Condor is a fairly recent operator to MCO, unlike LTU.
 
LAXintl
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
Does LTU rely on German traffic for the most part? I noticed LTU at LAX a few weeks ago, and I thought it was a Charter. As far as I know, I've never seen an LTU advertisement here in LA, and LAX-DUS seems like a somewhat odd route, when we do not even have LAX-MXP, LAX-MAD, or LAX-FCO.

I guess there is enough profitable traffic to sustain (and increase) the route, but is it mostly German traffic? I doubt if you asked 10,000 people here in LA what LTU was, or where they flew, that you would get one person to respond correctly.

Its funny, LTU has had a seesaw presence at LAX. From humble seasonal charter beginnings in the late 70s, to running upwards of 5 weekly flights in the early/mid 90s using mix of 767s, L15s and MD-11s to places such as DUS, MUC, HAM to yet another retrenchment in recent years going back to basic twice weekly seasonal ops.

I suppose its nice for LTU to again try to reestablish itself as a steady operator in the market. While it primarily appeals to German origin passengers, it does pick up local traffic based on its reasonable fares and reliable service. Believe it or not, DUS is one of the most central locations in Europe being in the midst of dense population centers where several countries meet. LTU also offers beyond connection service including even bus service to many German cities.

One of the arguments, I have heard from LTUs management over the years has been the carriers constant turmoil and shifts on ownership causing the carrier to lack focus on what market and branding it truly want to pursue. Hence there has always been debate at the carrier regarding the benefits of running long haul services when the same equipment could do 3 quick turns to Spain in the same timeframe.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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LTU932
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
I don't think that LTU will survive in the current form - they will have to associate themselves with the TUI and/or AB Group in order to survive and not getting crushed by much larger competitors.

I thought there were already talks between AB and LT regarding a possible merger or restructuring of LTU, which would make LT a longhaul carrier only, with AB and DI providing feeder flights.
 
PVD757
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:13 am

when is DUS-DAB-BOG coming back??

seriously, I loved watching the (then) L-1011 blast off from DAB...

...wait was that even LTU? Too many beers at the Ocean Deck for me back then...
 
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LTU932
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 17):
when is DUS-DAB-BOG coming back??

With the current transit restrictions for people outside the Visa Waiver Programme, DUS-DAB-BOG ain't gonna happen, just as a return of the SJO route through MIA ain't gonna happen either.

This is a reason why DE, in their case, changed the stopover point for SJO flights to HAV when it was previously served through MCO, though now DE is changing that stopover point to SDQ. So if LT would start flights to BOG, it would have to be either nonstop or as a direct flight with a stop outside the US. I doubt that in these days, having a stopover in the US is the way to go, given the requirements for transit visas.
 
sflaflight
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 4):

Non Stop, MIA-MUC is also desperately needed. Lauda flew the route but stopped. LH did it for a short while, then stopped.

LTU has flown Miami-Munich since May 2004.

I'm sorry. I thought they discontinued it. my bad!

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Not sure about Los Angeles, but in the Miami and Ft. Myers area, they have a good reputation among locals for providing affordable fares to Europe, and they advertise on local television channels. Still, most of the travelers are probably German.

You know, I'll be honest with you. When I flew them back in 97, it was pretty much a 50/50 mix. I remember there being a heavy amount of college kids going to DE to study for the summer. I guess they were packaging out deals with school travel agents like STA.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Very unlikely. Condor and LTU have both been flying, successfully, alongside each other to Ft. Myers for many, many years, as well as to Orlando. Condor has not flown to FLL (or TPA) for about five years now.

Yeah, I really miss those days of seeing many Euroliners at FLL. About 6-7 years ago, it was quite common to see Condor, Britania, and Icelandair landing from my office window at the Jet Center.

It is too bad FLL can't dig itself out of the shadows of MIA and get more Euro traffic. As MAH has stated MANY times, FLL-Europe just doesn't seem to work. However, maybe now with the low cost idea becoming popular in Euroland, maybe European travellers will start to look at secondary US airports as well as a cheaper low fare alternative (though Miami has become pretty reasonable) so... Would be cool to see a Stansted-FLL flight or a Prestwick-FLL flight.
 
MCOGVADCA
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:12 pm

sad to see LTU go, but given their 'seesaw' history in the united states, I wouldnt be shocked to see LTU metal at airside 1 at somepoint in the future.
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 17):
when is DUS-DAB-BOG coming back??

seriously, I loved watching the (then) L-1011 blast off from DAB...

...wait was that even LTU? Too many beers at the Ocean Deck for me back then...

as I know the flights were routed to ADZ and not to BOG

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
miamix707
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 19):
Britania, and Icelandair landing from my office window at the Jet Center

Neither of those two were seen at FLL 6-7 years ago  Smile Britannia has been flying a few charters to FLL since 2002 however.

I think FLL has had European service from other airlines back in the 1990s, such as Icelandair and Air Belgium, probably charter only.
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):

I think FLL has had European service from other airlines back in the 1990s, such as Icelandair and Air Belgium, probably charter only.

Icelandair was scheduled service, as was service from Condor, Martinair Holland, and Laker Airways that came and went throughout the mid to late 1990s/early 00s.
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sflaflight
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 22):
Neither of those two were seen at FLL 6-7 years ago Smile Britannia has been flying a few charters to FLL since 2002 however.

Yeah, I guess it was more like 10 years ago. I worked at the Jet Center bldg from 95-98 and distinctly remember IcelandAir, Condor, Martinair and Laker landing. Thanks MAH, I completely forgot Freddie's London experiment. I remember the fare being really cheap. Something ridiculous like 199 + taxes each way at the time. I don't even think he's around. I don't remember reading anything on the forums, but didn't he recently pass away?

As for Britannia, it was charter even back then, but definitely before 2002. I remember seeing that queen-godess on the 767's working there.  Smile
The thing is I always found it funny they never showed her with her right breast exposed like in the mythology. Could you see the newspapers reviews when she landed in the US! - kidding Embarrassment

BTW, the best perk of working at the Jet Center was eating lunch at the Aviators restaurant by the window! What a way to experience lunch!
 
miamix707
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Icelandair was scheduled service, as was service from Condor, Martinair Holland, and Laker Airways that came and went throughout the mid to late 1990s/early 00s.

The only one of the three I saw myself and heard from photographers that was possible to see at FLL in the late 90s eand early 2000s was Condor and maybe Laker until 98 or so. You could call the Icelandair number back then and it gave you a FLL option but there was no flights listed. I saw Lauda air once on a trip MCO-FLL sometime in the mid 90s but I didn't live in s.florida yet, I suppose this was a charter?

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 24):
As for Britannia, it was charter even back then, but definitely before 2002. I remember seeing that queen-godess on the 767's working there.

Was it before 1997? I never heard of or saw Britannia charters at FLL from mid-1997-2001. Havent seen a pic of one on the database either.
 
MAH4546
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 25):
You could call the Icelandair number back then and it gave you a FLL option but there was no flights listed.

Icelandair service to FLL started 10 September 1993. Not sure how long it lasted.
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sflaflight
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RE: LTU Increases MIA, RSW, LAX; Discontinue MCO

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 25):

Was it before 1997? I never heard of or saw Britannia charters at FLL from mid-1997-2001. Havent seen a pic of one on the database either.

Yeah, it was before. Not sure about the years n between. I know that Costa Cruise Lines chartered Britannia several times in 2004-2005 to FLL for their cruises to the caribbean from MXP. I had to greet her several times and she was late everytime!

As for FI, it started 93 and went until ???. I do know; it was a couple years before the new terminal 1 was built though.

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