CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
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Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:35 am

The CRJ900 isn't dead yet, with 55 orders coming in over the last weeks, and the CRJ900X is now featured in its own article at www.bombardier.com - click on Regional Update, September 2006, "CRJ900X: a progress report.

With 98 seats @ 31-32" pitch, and MTOW of 90,000lbs (std) and 91,800lbs (ER) the -900X ought to be a suitable aircraft for many airlines, I'd say.

Lufthansa: huge CRJ operator, happy with the CRJ900 - Flight International report that they might get 10 more. A 9X with a 94-96-seat C/Y-cabin might replace some Avros and up capacity on busy CityLine routes...?

MyWay Airlines: publicly stated interest in 15 x CRJ900X.

AtlasJet: official interest in converting CR9 options to 9X. Still the case...?

Air One: will they order the 9X if LH and MyWay order it...?

Mesa Airlines: agreement with HP/US allow 90-seat jets to be flown IIRC, current CR9 only has 86 seats in Y-config. A CR9X with 6F + 84Y or 12F + 78Y might entice more premium pax...?

NWA: took 96 options when ordering 36 x CR9. With scope clauses allowing more than 76 seats as time goes by, a CR9X with 12-18F and 58-68Y might come in handy...? Or a 76-seat CR9X with 18F + 58Y for near-transcons...?

ASA, Horizon, SkyWest, Comair: bigger F-cabins (12-21 seats) for growing premium markets...?

Central and Eastern European airlines looking for new airplanes.

Other suggestions?  Smile
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
A342
Posts: 4017
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Lufthansa: huge CRJ operator, happy with the CRJ900 - Flight International report that they might get 10 more. A 9X with a 94-96-seat C/Y-cabin might replace some Avros and up capacity on busy CityLine routes...?

Certainly they're interested. Even their B735 have only 103 seats, so maybe...

They should also be interested in the Q400X, is that one progressing ?

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
and the CRJ900X is now featured in its own article at www.bombardier.com - click on Regional Update, September 2006, "CRJ900X: a progress report.

Can't find it, could you post the direct link ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2871
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Or a 76-seat CR9X with 18F + 58Y for near-transcons...?

Thats a lot of premium seats dont you think so? They will have to find a lot of thinner premium-traffic routes, of which there arent that many out of minneapolis, detroit, and memphis.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 1):
Can't find it, could you post the direct link ?

I was unable to do that. Here's what you do: go to www.bombardier.com, click on the picture of the CRJ900 (with the Q400 in the background), then click on the grey "reports/publications" box above the picture and there you are...  Smile



Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 2):
Thats a lot of premium seats dont you think so?

Well, isn't "travelling in style" on the way back now that people are getting fed up with tight eco seats?  Smile
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Rainmaker
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:34 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
The CRJ900 isn't dead yet, with 55 orders coming in over the last weeks, and the CRJ900X is now featured in its own article at www.bombardier.com - click on Regional Update, September 2006, "CRJ900X: a progress report.

With 98 seats @ 31-32" pitch, and MTOW of 90,000lbs (std) and 91,800lbs (ER) the -900X ought to be a suitable aircraft for many airlines, I'd say.

Nobody in the business really believes that the CRJ production line will stop entirely. However a max. 50 units production rate per year of all models - 900X included - can't be favorably compared to the CRJ peak of 200+ a few years ago. In this sense, descending from a 60% market share to 25% with no clear plan to raise it again is very unfortunate.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:51 pm

Another possible customer is KLM, Embraer visited AMS this weekend for 2 demo flights, but from what iv heard Canadiar will also demonstrate its new product.
 
CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 5):
Another possible customer is KLM, Embraer visited AMS this weekend for 2 demo flights, but from what iv heard Canadiar will also demonstrate its new product.

Yes, definetly. KLM's partner AF has regional affiliate Brit Air flying quite a few CRJs, Brit Air also looked at the CRJ900 back in 2001 but didn't order any. Perhaps Brit Air will replace their F100 with the CRJ900X, prompting KLM to get the 9X too...?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
planemaker
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
With 98 seats @ 31-32" pitch, and MTOW of 90,000lbs (std) and 91,800lbs (ER) the -900X ought to be a suitable aircraft for many airlines, I'd say.

Yes, I agree but is there actually enough sales potential to launch the aircraft? With so many variables that are out of BBD's control, I think that it would be a marginal investment. If BBD really believed in the 900X's appeal and market potential, BBD would have already launched the 900X instead of dragging it out. Even if it is launched now you are looking at a 2009 EIS.

However, as has already been mention in previous threads, BBD is really in a quandry. If BBD does go ahead with the 900X, BBD will essentially be telling the industry that at somepoint in the future they won't be around in the Commercial Aircraft sector. While the 900X would be a "relatively" cheap stretch, BBD will nevertheless have a hard time to also fund a new airliner program.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
bahadir
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:31 am

You can kiss AtlasJet order good-bye. They went through some tough shake up and they are not doing that well..
Earthbound misfit I
 
ksupilot
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 7):
However, as has already been mention in previous threads, BBD is really in a quandry. If BBD does go ahead with the 900X, BBD will essentially be telling the industry that at somepoint in the future they won't be around in the Commercial Aircraft sector. While the 900X would be a "relatively" cheap stretch, BBD will nevertheless have a hard time to also fund a new airliner program.

While I like the sounds of a further stretch, you are right. I am assuming they are really looking at this from every angle.

If it really comes down to this being the last commercial model from Bombardier, I would rather see them invest in a new family. Base it off of the CRJ series, just a winder fuselage diameter, go to 5 abreast seating. They could start at 95-100 seats for a base model and stretch up to 120. Just take on the Embraer E-Jets by staying with the T-Tail, rear mounted engine design that they are used to building.

I'm assuming a new engine would be needed to handle the extra weight from the larger fuselage. They really could make something more economical than the E-Jets and a nice alternative to the Boeing 717.

Let's face it, Embraer has them beat, however this is a better than just stretching an existing model. A new family of aircraft could bring about a breath of fresh air for them. Everyone likes a comeback story.
 
planemaker
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 9):
Let's face it, Embraer has them beat, however this is a better than just stretching an existing model. A new family of aircraft could bring about a breath of fresh air for them. Everyone likes a comeback story.

While I understand your reasoning, the market is just not big enough to justify an investment along the lines that you are suggesting.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
ksupilot
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 10):
While I understand your reasoning, the market is just not big enough to justify an investment along the lines that you are suggesting.

It would seem so. Really seems when Bombardier missed the mark with the C-Jets that marked the beginning of the end. As you said in the Embraer thread, the CRJ series cannot compare to the E-Jets. While the CRJ-900X will sell, it won't be enough to save Bombardier.
To me the -900X is a "Going Out of Business Sale".
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 11):
Really seems when Bombardier missed the mark with the C-Jets that marked the beginning of the end

It would seem so, but if you look at it from the point of view that the CSeries would not have been successful, as I do, then BBD did the right thing for their shareholders in not launching the CSeries.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Boston92
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:07 am

If the CR9 could make it, Skywest could use one for a SBA-ORD flight. I doubt it would make it though. Bout 1950 miles.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 13):
If the CR9 could make it, Skywest could use one for a SBA-ORD flight. I doubt it would make it though. Bout 1950 miles.

SBA-ORD is 1500 nautical miles point-to-point, and easily done by the CRJ-900; however, due to the scope clause with UA, and the wording in that scope, it would either a) be limited to 70 seats, with possible increased capacity in the future or b) certificated as a 705 and permanantly limited to 70 seats.
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CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 13):
If the CR9 could make it, Skywest could use one for a SBA-ORD flight. I doubt it would make it though. Bout 1950 miles.

Does SkyWest have the Longer Range-version? I think the LR has about 2,100 nautical miles range with only 70 seats...?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14):
SBA-ORD is 1500 nautical miles point-to-point, and easily done by the CRJ-900; however, due to the scope clause with UA, and the wording in that scope, it would either a) be limited to 70 seats, with possible increased capacity in the future or b) certificated as a 705 and permanantly limited to 70 seats.

Are we talking UA or UAX/SKYWEST? Is the clasue with UA or all UA and UAX partners?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 16):
Are we talking UA or UAX/SKYWEST? Is the clasue with UA or all UA and UAX partners?

UA's pilots have a contract with UA management for the number and size of aircraft that may be flown by regional carriers.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 17):
UA's pilots have a contract with UA management for the number and size of aircraft that may be flown by regional carriers.

In that case, could the CR7 make it???!!!
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 18):
In that case, could the CR7 make it???!!!

It certainly could, but it would be weight restricted (carry less passengers) to a certain degree, depending on the situation surrounding the flight in question.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Boston92
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:39 am

Yeah, you know connecting in LAX or SFO is much better than being stuck in a CR7 for 4.5 hours!
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 20):
Yeah, you know connecting in LAX or SFO is much better than being stuck in a CR7 for 4.5 hours!

But what's better: Sitting on a plane with 65 other people for 3.5 hours, or connecting to a larger aircraft that has the same amenities, seat pitch, less chance of a window seat, plus an additional hour sitting on the ground to transfer in that connection?
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Boston92
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:59 am

Well I am 6'4" and 220 lb. I like a/c that I can actually stand up in and have a jetway to board or deplane.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 22):
Well I am 6'4" and 220 lb. I like a/c that I can actually stand up in and have a jetway to board or deplane.

Good luck getting a jet bridge in Santa Barbara!  Wink
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
emseeeye
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:50 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 22):
Well I am 6'4" and 220 lb. I like a/c that I can actually stand up in and have a jetway to board or deplane.

No jetbridge?? Really?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1013091/M/
 
747400sp
Posts: 3888
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RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:23 am

Let's just hope it can get off the ground, you know those CRJ's use a lot of runway, then they go stretch them come on now.  Silly
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 1):
Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Lufthansa: huge CRJ operator, happy with the CRJ900 - Flight International report that they might get 10 more. A 9X with a 94-96-seat C/Y-cabin might replace some Avros and up capacity on busy CityLine routes...?

Certainly they're interested. Even their B735 have only 103 seats, so maybe...

They should also be interested in the Q400X, is that one progressing ?

i wouldn't hold my breath for LH ordering any turboprop aircraft ever again. I'm quite a fan of the DH4, especially considering the price of fuel, but further stretching the DH4, that's gonna look like a monster! i think passengers wouldn't like it that much.

also, the CRJ900 and -X, as well as any other comparable aircraft (Fokker 100, MD-80 Series) suffers from major disadvantage: they take long to disembark, and while pax are getting off, ground staff can't get on board. i doubt that there is a large market for a CRJ900X.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5015
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 25):
Let's just hope it can get off the ground, you know those CRJ's use a lot of runway, then they go stretch them come on now.

When you load up other types of aircraft at, or near its max takeoff weight (757 excluded, since no other commercial airliner can seem to compare to it,) they aren't very spritely, either. Either way, the -700 and -900 have shorter ground rolls compared to the -200 since they have added lift from the slats.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 26):
i wouldn't hold my breath for LH ordering any turboprop aircraft ever again. I'm quite a fan of the DH4, especially considering the price of fuel, but further stretching the DH4, that's gonna look like a monster! i think passengers wouldn't like it that much.

I bet 20€ they will order turboprops again, or at least new turboprops will fly in their livery.
Stretching the Q400 was (is ?) actually studied by Bombardier, so I think it's not out of the question.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 26):
also, the CRJ900 and -X, as well as any other comparable aircraft (Fokker 100, MD-80 Series) suffers from major disadvantage: they take long to disembark, and while pax are getting off, ground staff can't get on board. i doubt that there is a large market for a CRJ900X.

That's the reason BBD came up with the rear-cabin service door on the CRJ900, so that pax could leave front-left while ground crews entered aft-right and start cleaning the rear lav and re-stock the aft galley and then move forward... Shame no airline has ordered that option yet. However, that could change with the 900X...?
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 23):
Good luck getting a jet bridge in Santa Barbara!

This will never happen!

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 24):
No jetbridge?? Really?

No I live near 5 small regional airports and none of them use jetways. I did not mean that no airports use them on CRJ's, just not the ones I go to.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 29):
That's the reason BBD came up with the rear-cabin service door on the CRJ900

Ah, but at the expense of pax seats... airlines have much rather stuff seats into the 900 than have a smaller rear door that doesn't really add much utility.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
CRJ900
Topic Author
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 31):
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 29):
That's the reason BBD came up with the rear-cabin service door on the CRJ900

Ah, but at the expense of pax seats... airlines have much rather stuff seats into the 900 than have a smaller rear door that doesn't really add much utility.

True. But maybe that will be less of an issue with the 900X which has a little extra space and if airlines are willing to have 96-98 seats instead of 98-100 seats...?  Smile
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
aeronut
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:41 am

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 29):
That's the reason BBD came up with the rear-cabin service door on the CRJ900, so that pax could leave front-left while ground crews entered aft-right and start cleaning the rear lav and re-stock the aft galley and then move forward... Shame no airline has ordered that option yet. However, that could change with the 900X...?

I beleive the aft service door is classified as an emergency exit and is therefore required for certification. Is this correct?
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Possible CRJ900X Launch Customers...

Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 29):
That's the reason BBD came up with the rear-cabin service door on the CRJ900

i didn't know there was such an option! thanks for the input! but as someone else stated, it comes with a disadvantage just somewhere else, be it less cabin seats or increased weight, whatever...
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.

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