MAH4546
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LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:37 am

LTU will begin Las Vegas-Dusseldorf service this coming summer.

LT 1520 DUS 1030-1245 LAS 332 Th
LT 1520 DUS 1130-1345 LAS 332 Mo

LT 1521 LAS 1430-0950+1 DUS 332 Th
LT 1521 LAS 1530-1050+1 DUS 332 Mo

Flights start 3 May 2007.

Las Vegas will be the fifth city in LTU's US network, replacing service to Orlando ending this month. German PR:

http://www.fliegertarife.de/index.ph...ontent&task=view&id=1233&Itemid=42
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LTU932
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:33 am

Looks like they want to compete with DE, which operates FRA-LAS.

That being said, given that LAS is mostly leisure, isn't this more actually going away from their plans of becoming a more business orientated airline? I'm totally lost with LT.
 
Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
I'm totally lost with LT.

not only you!

I doubt LasVegas is a good decicion for a new destination, market is already very good served with the DE flights and all the x conections offered from the US-Airlines via there hubs.

regards
Avianca
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QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
I doubt LasVegas is a good decicion for a new destination, market is already very good served with the DE flights and all the x conections offered from the US-Airlines via there hubs

There is a strong market for Las Vegas. At current Las Vegas sees the following long-haul International routes:

BMI - Manchester (332)
Condor - Frankfurt (763)
Korean - Seoul (772)
MaxJet - Stansted (762)
My Travel - Manchester (332)
Philippines - Vancouver/Manila (343)
Virgin Atlantic - Gatwick (744)

Rumors abound for additional new long haul service!   
China Airlines : LAS-TPE
EuroFly : LAS-MXP
Lufthansa : LAS-MUC

[Edited 2006-10-08 05:21:11]
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TriStar500
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:20 pm

Since we don't know, how many of the seats have already been bought by tour operators, no one here can reliably estimate the financial viability of this service.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Humberside
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 3):
Lufthansa : LAS-MUC

I would have thought that route would have been more suited to Condor
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gkirk
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 3):

Not forgetting
Glasgow-Las Vegas MyTravel A332 (runs for 4 weeks split load with MAN)
Glasgow-Las Vegas FlyGlobespan B763 2 x weekly starting this winter
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
A342
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):
Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 3):
Lufthansa : LAS-MUC

I would have thought that route would have been more suited to Condor

Indeed, unlikely to be flown by LH, despite the US hub there. DEN is the most likely, followed by PHX.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):
Not forgetting
Glasgow-Las Vegas MyTravel A332 (runs for 4 weeks split load with MAN)
Glasgow-Las Vegas FlyGlobespan B763 2 x weekly starting this winter

 checkmark  Good one mate, forgot about that. Further proof that Las Vegas is a viable international market. Current stats show that Las Vegas city proper is about 540,000 people. With the surrounding areas 1, 700, 000+. That is definitely a demand for O/D.
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 3):
There is a strong market for Las Vegas. At current Las Vegas sees the following long-haul International routes:

but I doub that there is much more open market ex germany for "charter" carriers like DE or LT, as mentiond before there are so many conections offered from the airlines via there USA hubs....

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
but I doub that there is much more open market ex germany for "charter" carriers like DE or LT, as mentiond before there are so many conections offered from the airlines via there USA hubs....

The unique thing with charters is that for the most part and as is with the case of LT and DE. The charters are not reliant on U.S. outbound traffic, in contrast they are filled with inbound traffic. Anything that they pick up on the U.S. end is additional. Now in saying so Condor and LTU are offered in conjunction with a number of tour operators in Germany and throughout Europe that buy bulk space on the aircraft and fill the routes with holidaymakers.

LTU, would not start the route if there was no profit to be made. LTU, actually is looking at becoming a more scheduled airline, in saying so Las Vegas is a gamble either way. However, one thing can be said O/D to Las Vegas is remarkable. That is the reason that VS, BD, KE, PR, DE, LT, and others fly there. Business is assured, and seats filled.

FYI - One of my earlier posts include rumored new TATL service to Las Vegas. Include MartinAir LAS-AMS with the 763. It is not inked yet, but it is on the table!  wink 

[Edited 2006-10-08 17:17:06]
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dacman
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:10 am

Las Vegas gets better and better each year for those of us who live in SoCal.

Michael
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 10):
LTU, would not start the route if there was no profit to be made. LTU, actually is looking at becoming a more scheduled airline

well they started in the past so much routes that were finally also not profitable  Wink
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 12):
well they started in the past so much routes that were finally also not profitable

We are not in the past any longer, now are we? The past that you are referring to included the MD-11 and L1011 types within LTU, those days are long gone and LTU has a totally different focus now!  wink 
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 13):
The past that you are referring to included the MD-11 and L1011 types within LTU, those days are long gone and LTU has a totally different focus now!

well when they were already bankruped and get tax-money to survive the mentioned babys were already gone.... my question what is the focus of them today, I can not see one!

cheers  Big grin
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QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 14):
well when they were already bankruped and get tax-money to survive the mentioned babys were already gone.... my question what is the focus of them today, I can not see one!

You seem awfully upset with LTU, werer you on a delayed or cancelled flight of theirs? Why are you so negative about new air service from DUS-LAS on LTU?
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
You seem awfully upset with LTU, werer you on a delayed or cancelled flight of theirs? Why are you so negative about new air service from DUS-LAS on LTU?

do not get me wrong, I am not against LTU, used them only 2 times in the past (5 years ago muc-puj-muc and 4 years ago muc-ibz-muc) and the flights were very good including the inflight-service. Hop fully the flight to LAS will go well but I am not convinced as I do not see such a big left market from germany to Las Vegas.

regards
Andreas
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 16):
I am not convinced as I do not see such a big left market from germany to Las Vegas.

Top European Tourists to Las Vegas market

1/ British
2/ German
3/ French
4/ Italian
5/ Dutch
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AirCop
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 10):
LTU, actually is looking at becoming a more scheduled airline, in saying so Las Vegas is a gamble either way

Nice play on words here  biggrin  being Las Vegas in the gambling capital of the US.
 
Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 17):
Top European Tourists to Las Vegas market

1/ British
2/ German
3/ French
4/ Italian
5/ Dutch

maybe the germans are number two from europe, but as mentiond before there are many carriers in the market,

just checked a randoom date, and AA, US, UA, DL, CO, DE, LH are all offering fares between 600 and 700 Euro including taxes, so I belive it will be hard for LT on the route only hope for them is if they will have fixed allotments with tour-operators wich I belive...

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
but as mentiond before there are many carriers in the market,

Yes there are many carriers, however many carriers are not reliant on holidays traffic that is contract driven.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
AA, US, UA, DL, CO, DE, LH are all offering fares between 600 and 700 Euro including taxes, so I belive it will be hard for LT on the route

You are of course forgetting the tour operator agreements/contracts between German/European agencies and LTU/Condor.
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stylo777
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:16 am

btw.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
Looks like they want to compete with DE, which operates FRA-LAS

LTU will also open a new longhaul route from FRA:

on thursdays they will fly FRA-DXB and there is an additional FRA-PUJ flight on fridays (FRA-PUJ and FRA-POP on sundays)...
 
Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 21):
on thursdays they will fly FRA-DXB

intresting, but I doubt also the success on the route.

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):
intresting, but I doubt also the success on the route.

Why?

Again, you seem to think that LTU is doomed on any flight...
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:03 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 23):
Why?

Again, you seem to think that LTU is doomed on any flight...

because you have nearly 100 flights per week from germany to dxb + many flights to near citys with good conections (DOH, AUH)
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MAH4546
Topic Author
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):
Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 21):
on thursdays they will fly FRA-DXB

intresting, but I doubt also the success on the route.

regards

Why? Is there any route you don't doubt their success on? They will likely do fine on FRA-DXB because they can fill it with holiday packages.
a.
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
because you have nearly 100 flights per week from germany to dxb + many flights to near citys with good conections (DOH, AUH)

Mate,

Be assured that if they could Emirates would be flying to every nook and cranny with a population over 200,000 in Germany.

Fair play is fair game, is it not?
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Why? Is there any route you don't doubt their success on? They will likely do fine on FRA-DXB because they can fill it with holiday packages.

who knows maybe we can find a route were I do not have doubts...

to get a good amount of holiday packages they have to offer very very low fares to the operators resulting not really high earnings.
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QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 27):
to get a good amount of holiday packages they have to offer very very low fares to the operators resulting not really high earnings

If the holiday companies are paying as little as 400Euros LTU is doing very, very well. In most cases, since the flights are 2 x weekly these flights are going to be filled with contract money. Which in the end means a profit to LTU. If LTU fills the A330 with 75% contract, the balance can be sold to locals in Las Vegas and Germany that are not holiday oriented. That additional from the 75% is over and above what LTU is making, thus making for a very profitable market entry.
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Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 28):
Which in the end means a profit to LTU



Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 28):
thus making for a very profitable market entry.

lets see how long they will operate the routes....
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stylo777
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:34 am

I am sure that LTU will make profit with FRA-DXB eventhough EK, LH, DE and EY (to AUH) flies every day that route. EK, LH and EY have in my eyes another aim on this route, because they make more money with interline traffic to the East, the Arabian and Africa. But LTU, many of you said that before, works together with touroperators and fills that route with almost 350tourists just in one flight. In the last years the region around DXB including Abu Dhabi, Fujairah, Sharjah and Ras Al-Khaimanah becomes very famous for German tourists. And if you ask a German tourist: Which airline do you know more, LTU or Emirates? He would definitly answer LTU!
So I see no problems for LTU on this route!
 
Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 30):
EK, LH and EY have in my eyes another aim on this route,

LH yes, but EK and EY is transporting all kind of passengers what they get.

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 30):
And if you ask a German tourist: Which airline do you know more, LTU or Emirates?

of course LTU, but Emirates isnt fameless after the WorldCup in germany....
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stylo777
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 31):
of course LTU, but Emirates isnt fameless after the WorldCup in germany....

believe me when I say LTU IS MORE KNOWN here in Germany than Emirates

Quoting Avianca (Reply 31):
LH yes, but EK and EY is transporting all kind of passengers what they get.

yes, they take what they get, but the main difference is that they don't work so strongly together with big operators like TUI and LTUR.
 
Avianca
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 32):
believe me when I say LTU IS MORE KNOWN here in Germany than Emirates

I agree with you since my last reply that LTU is much more known in germany than emirates, but emirates isnt totally unknown more in germany.
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siromega
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:54 pm

Lots of Europeans like to come to LAS. And a growing number of LAS folk seem to like to go to Europe (specifically England, Germany and Italy).

By 2010, LAS and suburbs (not that they're really suburbs since its all just wall to wall houses) will have over 2M people. By 2030 we'll have 3M people, assuming we still have water left to drink.
 
A342
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:18 am

Avianca is right. Competition from other carriers is strong. I also doubt that tourists want to see ONLY Las Vegas when they go over the pond. Yes, there may be people who can sit in the casinos for a week or two, but it's not that many.

For example, when I came to the US, I flew MUC-JFK-SFO-LAS-IAD-MUC on LH/UA (Ted). LTU couldn't offer this flexibility. I also paid only 750 Euros for that trip. If I could only see Las Vegas (for example with LT), I wouldn't have accepted that fare.

BTW, when we flew back to Germany, we were offered 600 Euros per person if we took the flight on the next day. Unfortunately that wasn't possible.  Wink
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
QFSYD744
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RE: LTU Adds Flights To Las Vegas

Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 35):
I also doubt that tourists want to see ONLY Las Vegas when they go over the pond.

Ever heard of Thomas Cook? Kuoni? DER?
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