il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:14 am

I asked my travel agent to look for an inexpensive ticket to Buenos Aires. I usually pay between USD 1,000 and 1,200 for a round trip from Stockholm and a ten days / two weeks stay.

Now I was told it was impossible to get anything bellow 1,500, probably around 2,000. And that the situation will be the same for the next fourth months. Or maybe until past Eastern. For the first time in 15 years (I travel to South America at least twice a year) the best deal I was offered was flying through the US (Newark/ Continental) for about USD 1,200.

My agent told me that no airline is covering the gap left by Varig fewer frequencies to Europe.

My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

Best regards
Erico
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:41 am

Europe and South America have plenty of flights connecting the two continents. It's not like Varig was a major player in the market.

In MAD alone Iberia connects Brazil and Spain with 26 weekly flights between the two countries. Now through in flights on Air Europa, BRA, British Airways, Alitalia, Air France, Lufthansa, Condor, and Air Madrid. That's a lot flights between Europe and Brazil weekly.

As for flights to EZE you have Air France, Air Madrid, Lufthansa, British Airways, Aerolineas, and Iberia.

For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia  Wink

[Edited 2006-10-08 20:52:10]
No Vueling No Party
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4460
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Il75 (Thread starter):
My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

If the current airlines are "profiting" as you put it, why would they want to add extra flights. I doubt the flights between Europe and South America are booked full, so there appears to be enough flights.
 
AF454GRU
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:50 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:33 am

You can try KLM via Sao Paulo GRU and then to EZE on a code shared flight with JJ. Or also JJ itself via CDG and GRU.
Other airlines to EZE are LH from FRA via GRU and AZ from MXP.
You should check with AR, IB and NM from MAD.
 
lazyshaun
Posts: 550
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 5:50 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
As for flights to EZE you have Air France, Air Madrid, Lufthansa, British Airways, Aerolineas, and Iberia

I don't think BA do, do they? Unless code-share?

As for the question:has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

BA have announced 10x weekly from LHR-GRU, up from daily, and TAM announced daily daily flights, starting next year (March?), all this after Varigs absence from the route.
However, I believe this is simply both airllines taking advantage of Varigs demise, and filling the slots for that route. And this is only one route, though it may be an important one.

I don't think this seems to be an underserved market, going on how the airlines see it. Maybe there is, and hence the price increase, and they are enjoying the period, I don't really know. But it appears not to me.

Others will hopefully know more.
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
steve6666
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:58 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 4):
I don't think BA do, do they? Unless code-share?

The 247 continues 4 times a week to EZE.

The other thing to consider may be getting to GRU anywhich route comes out cheapest and then taking GOL to EZE.
eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3649
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia

What about AF, LA and AV???  Smile

You could go to CCS or BOG, there´s flights from these destinations to EZE, of course you need a short stop in CDG, BCN or MAD but it could get you cheap flights.
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:38 pm

Well, maybe the guy at the travel agency miss-informed me. But I found it reasonable that if Varig left all major European capitals it would have an effect on the market, and not precisely for the travelers best.

My personal experience is that ticket prices for ARN-EZE-ARN increased since May by about 30%, that it is very difficult to find any economy class (lower fare, restricted) tickets in IB, LH, AF, AR, AI, or TAM next month and that it is cheaper to fly through Newark and Houston to Buenos Aires than flying directly from Europe to Argentina. It is the first time ever in my 15 years of traveling (and yes I know which airlines operate those routes, I've flow tem all. And add: Aeroflot, Lineas Aereas Paraguayas, SAS, Swissair and Sabena)

Regards
Erico
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:47 pm

Thank you, RCS763AV

I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays. Barcelona or Madrid would get too expensive if I have to get there from Stockholm -no low price alternatives. But Paris is very convenient. I will take a look.

regards
Erico
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:45 pm

Quoting Il75 (Reply 8):
I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays. Barcelona or Madrid would get too expensive if I have to get there from Stockholm -no low price alternatives. But Paris is very convenient. I will take a look.

If you check www.klm.se you will find a round trip for 10000 SEK (1050EUR/4250ARS) on KLM ARL-AMS-GRU and GRU-EZE on JJ.
You will fly the 777 on AMS-GRU and collect FB miles on the TAM operated flight.
Dates I tried were 4-Dec out and 18-Dec in.
Good luck and I envy you - Argentina is great.
 
photolppt
Posts: 531
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:17 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:48 pm

Hi,

You can try TP from Stockholm to GRU or GIG, via LIS. There I guess you'll find several options into EZE.

Regards,
Alex
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3649
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting Il75 (Reply 8):
I would love to fly Avianca again. I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays

When i said Paris i meant AF...AV only flies to BCN and MAD, sorry.

Of course, if you wanted to fly AV or AR, you could go CDG-BOG-EZE using one of the two in the latter segment!

[Edited 2006-10-10 04:52:09]
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Il75 (Thread starter):
My question: has any airline increased traffic between Europe and Southern South America since Varig run into trouble or are they just profiting and have no hurry into putting some extra flights?

Air Europa will begin 4x weekly GIG-MAD, and added 1x weekly SSA-MAD.
Iberia will add service to both GIG and SAO
Air France will add 2x weekly on their daily light CDG-GRU
Brazilian BRA is running 1x weekly MAD-LIS-GIG-GRU / 1x weekly MAD-LIS-GRU-GIG / 2 weekly CGN-GIG
TAM will begin by this month end daily LHR-GRU
TAM is looking for 7x GIG-CDG and 7x GRU-MXP

BA will add 3x extra-flights during the brazilian summer, TAP is looking for some extra flights too.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Thank you, Felipe.

I was surprised a major player as Varig could leave the scene without others filling the gap. I hope that reflects on the prices soon.

regards
Erico
 
jfk777
Posts: 5830
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:24 am

While many European airlines fly to Brazil, Sao Paulo is the main gateway. Buenos Aires had suffered more for several reasons, Swissair went broke and stopped flying there, Lufthansa went from nonstop to EZE to a stop via GRU. KLM stopped flying to EZE, period. BA,at some point, went from nonstop to a stop in GRU too. Varig going under hasn't helped things either, but TAM is coming to the rescue.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting Il75 (Reply 13):
I was surprised a major player as Varig could leave the scene without others filling the gap. I hope that reflects on the prices soon.

Hi Il75, in fact we are paying very high fares for last minute tickets to CDG, FRA, MAD, LHR and MXP because of the end of the major RG flights. The problem is also brazilians are willing to travel abroad (Euro vs Real is in a very good rate, down 15% over last year average rate). With Varig, our authorities estimates a 20% grow over 2005 levels. Without Varig, this huge demand forced the prices!

I believe Tam new flights to CDG and MXP, as well as Alitalia announced today their intention to upgrade Brazilian flights from 7x to 14x.

Varig confirmed today they will move again, this time back to GIG.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:43 pm

I just phoned to another travel agency and I said I wanted to fly to EZE from ARN, economy,two weeks during November. Iberia, Lufthansa and Air France had no seats available, they said, and the only alternative other than touring around the hemisphere with Continental (and queueing for a transit visa since I am an Argentine citizen) was TAM through London for about € 1,700.
The advised me not to book any flight with Alitalia since "they are very close to bankruptcy an there is a big risk you'll be left in Buenos Aires".  Confused

I see no good deals for flying to Argentina in the near future.
Erico
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:48 pm

One option next year for my girlfriend and I is Argentina and Chile. Not bad prices, either: about £550 return to Argentina from London and about £560 into Argentina and out of Chile. All with IB via MAD. Probably 98% of all the options we've seen, at good prices, were with IB via MAD. Naturally, that's not surprising, in view of IB's obvious domination. More expensive options (perhaps not if flying to/from Brazil) were mainly with JJ and, then, BA (about £900 for LON-CAI; TLV-LHR-SAO-EZE-SAO-LHR).

[Edited 2006-10-12 10:55:04]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:59 pm

Quoting Il75 (Reply 16):
I just phoned to another travel agency and I said I wanted to fly to EZE from ARN, economy,two weeks during November. Iberia, Lufthansa and Air France had no seats available, they said, and the only alternative other than touring around the hemisphere with Continental (and queueing for a transit visa since I am an Argentine citizen) was TAM through London for about € 1,700.

Once again, at KLM.se I see flights in November for less than 11.000 SEK or 1100€ all taxes included. It's not my point that I stronly advocate KL, but you can get to Argentina in November for a very reasonable price.
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia

I would not fly Iberia if the ticket was free and on first. British Airways, Lufthansa and soon LAN will be your best options.
AA will Rise Again!
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:34 am

Try looking at flights out of Madrid. I think you can get a flight for less than 500 euros return with Air Madrid /Air Europa /Iberia/Aerolineas Argentinas. Then you can by another ticket to get there from Sweeden.
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 19):

Have you flown Iberia?
No Vueling No Party
 
SwissA330
Posts: 550
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 8:23 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:53 am

I flew Iberia twice: The first time and the last time. It happened to be the same flight... TAP on the other hand is imho a very good airline. You do get the odd A320 with no leather seats yet or the A310, but usually TAP really have good aircraft and very friendly service.
Given The choice I would definitively choose them over IBERIA or Varig for that matter.
Also, Lisbon is easy to transfer...
swissair/+/ we care
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 21):
Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 19):


Have you flown Iberia?

Yes I have. Twice and never again.
AA will Rise Again!
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:21 pm

Several of the RG flights to LHR had add-on LHR-CPH-LHR sectors. Now I do not think there are any Scandinavia-South America direct services. Could this be impacting prices from STO?
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 1):
For all other South American destinations, just look for flights on Iberia

hehe, or LAN or AV..  Wink

Quoting Il75 (Reply 8):
I didn't know they were flying to Paris nowadays

They are not but they will, apparently for the first quarter of 2007 taking into account the words of the owner of the company to a local Colombian financial newspaper. First London and then Paris to be added to the current European destinations, MAD, BCN and ALC.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
treeny
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:30 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:39 pm

My two cents worth say that there are plenty of flights but they are getting some damn expensive...

Anyone think why cause I havent a clue because it isnt like there is a shortage..

Mark
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:58 pm

IBeria is a bit of a dive airline.

Ive never seen a smile on the staff.

Still they did give me $14.00 of compensation for losing my luggage for 5 days, and a rather nice Iberia plastic toiletry bag with the most thinly made of tshirts and just enough toothpaste to squeeze on the the toothpick of a toothbrush... and make it last for four days.

Oh and they canceled both my out going and return flights, and both replacement flights ran late.

London-MAD and return.

thats why I'm glad FR open a base in MAD.

I think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Il75 (Reply 16):
and queueing for a transit visa since I am an Argentine citizen

Probably quicker and cheaper to apply for a Swedish passport!
 
il75
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 28):
Probably quicker and cheaper to apply for a Swedish passport!

 Smile

Well... It could be a good reason. I'll think of it.
Erico
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:12 am

I don't think that there are that many flights from Europe to South America. I rather would say, there are plenty of connections trough MAD and if you look at Brazil alone, through LIS. Apart from that several European hubs have connections to São Paulo and maybe Rio de Janeiro. Then it already start to decrease rapidly with the choice.

Only talking about Switzerland, I can remember Varig, VASP; TAM, Aerolineas Argentinas or little more back Viasa and also Avianca (in the days of the wonderful 707) serving ZRH. Today, none of this carriers flies to ZRH anymore. LX serves GRU and the flights are all the times full. It's real hard to get a ticket to get on one of those. I don't know how SCL performs yet, but it's all they serve.

I would love to see more LatAm carriers on other airports than MAD and LIS, coming all over Europe again. I would love to see AV opening a gateway trough BOG to European capitals. If we need to fly down to GRU first, it can be a hugh detour for someone who would like to travel to the Northern half of the Southamerican Subcontinent.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 27):
I think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.

Gotta love some of the comments people leave.  Confused
Visca Barça!!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 30):
I don't think that there are that many flights from Europe to South America. I rather would say, there are plenty of connections trough MAD and if you look at Brazil alone, through LIS. Apart from that several European hubs have connections to São Paulo and maybe Rio de Janeiro. Then it already start to decrease rapidly with the choice.

Agree and the demand is growing at higher levels than airlines are adding seats to the market.

Results ? Higher fares.... hard time to get a seat on summer!!!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 27):
IBeria is a bit of a dive airline.

Ive never seen a smile on the staff.

Still they did give me $14.00 of compensation for losing my luggage for 5 days, and a rather nice Iberia plastic toiletry bag with the most thinly made of tshirts and just enough toothpaste to squeeze on the the toothpick of a toothbrush... and make it last for four days.

Oh and they canceled both my out going and return flights, and both replacement flights ran late.

London-MAD and return.

thats why I'm glad FR open a base in MAD.

I think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.

Eh...? worried 
No Vueling No Party
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:44 pm

Maybe the problem is the number of connections out of Stolkholm. Out of London there are a number of flights under 1,200USD to BUE such as AC.
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 34):
Stolkholm.

It´s Stockholm or in Spanish Estocolmo!
 Smile
 
LIPZ
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. Ameri

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:18 pm

According to "Guidaviaggi" (Italian only), AZ want to reintroduce FCO-GRU in addition to MXP flights as one of the 1st steps of the new business plan 2007-2009.

[Edited 2006-10-16 14:23:00]
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting Iberia340600 (Reply 31):
think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.

Gotta love some of the comments people leave.

May hurt some feelings, but these comments are true.

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 33):
Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 27):
IBeria is a bit of a dive airline.

Ive never seen a smile on the staff.

Still they did give me $14.00 of compensation for losing my luggage for 5 days, and a rather nice Iberia plastic toiletry bag with the most thinly made of tshirts and just enough toothpaste to squeeze on the the toothpick of a toothbrush... and make it last for four days.

Oh and they canceled both my out going and return flights, and both replacement flights ran late.

London-MAD and return.

thats why I'm glad FR open a base in MAD.

I think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.

Eh...?

Truth hurts sometimes.
AA will Rise Again!
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:09 am

II75

TAP has nor been mentioned much, but right now is the european airliner with more weekly flights to Brazil. Sao Paulo, Rio, Salvador daily, plus a 3 weekly flight to Sao Paulo and Rio from Oporto. Natal, Recife Fortaleza served with 5 or 6 weekly flights (not sure).

In opposition to other european cities, the flight from Stocholm arrives in the afternoon which means you would have to spend a night in Lisbon and get the morning flight to GRU or GIG. From there you would have amny options to EZE. And Lisbon is a very nice city, you will enjoy it anf have enough time to go out for dinner and experience the night life in Lisbon. The flight from Stockolm arrives at around 6pm and the flight to GRU or GIG in the follwoing day are around 9.30am / 10.00 am.
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 14):
but TAM is coming to the rescue

hahaha... Don't count so fast on JJ to take over RG routes... JJ is known for its conservative strategy on launching intl flights. Up until now it has only taken over LHR and JFK (RG former routes) and CDG and MXP if confirmed will only commence in 2007. So no further increase in capacity besides LHR, for this summer.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 32):
Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 30):
I don't think that there are that many flights from Europe to South America. I rather would say, there are plenty of connections trough MAD and if you look at Brazil alone, through LIS. Apart from that several European hubs have connections to S?Paulo and maybe Rio de Janeiro. Then it already start to decrease rapidly with the choice.

Agree and the demand is growing at higher levels than airlines are adding seats to the market.

Results ? Higher fares.... hard time to get a seat on summer!!!

Agree as well... IB, AF, BA will soon be adding new frequecies, but it still not enough for the emerging traffic from/to deep South America. I see EZE, MVD and SCL as the most affected as non-stops flights are rare and conections rely deeply on Europe-Brazil flights.

We also need to consider that besides RG's flights Europe, the flights to EZE and SCL also have been reduced and suspended, affecting directly the seat availability for conections to Argentina, Chile and Uruguay.

Rgs,

Neo
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting TAP1972 (Reply 38):
TAP has nor been mentioned much, but right now is the european airliner with more weekly flights to Brazil. Sao Paulo, Rio, Salvador daily, plus a 3 weekly flight to Sao Paulo and Rio from Oporto. Natal, Recife Fortaleza served with 5 or 6 weekly flights (not sure).

REC and FOR are served daily with A310, REC will be upgraded very soon to A332. NAT is served 6x weekly. SSA will get extra-flights on december due to the lack of A343 on the fleet.

Quoting Neo (Reply 39):
We also need to consider that besides RG's flights Europe, the flights to EZE and SCL also have been reduced and suspended, affecting directly the seat availability for connections to Argentina, Chile and Uruguay.

SCL and EZE are closer and airlines could run these routes with narrow bodies (A320 and B737) like AR, LA, G3 and JJ.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Fermarta
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:05 pm

IBERIA will fly 15x weekly to EZE during November and most of December. A few days ago it was still possible to find return tickets MAD-EZE for about 870 euros using the extra flight.

Regards.
Otros vendrán que bueno te harán
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5179
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:09 pm

Concerning AF, ALL destinations in South America will be served NONSTOP from/to Paris this winter :

CAY = DAILY A343
CCS = DAILY B744
BOG = DAILY A343
GIG = DAILY B744
EZE = DAILY B777
GRU = DAILY B77W + 5 x Weekly A332
SCL = 5 x Weekly B777

The second flight to GRU (A332) should become DAILY very soon.
Extra frequencies should be added on CDG-GIG.
REC is planned to be reopen soon by AF.

Add to this the KLM flights and the possibility to combine a KL flight oneway with an AF on the other when a city is served by both carriers.
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 37):
May hurt some feelings, but these comments are true.



Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 37):
Truth hurts sometimes.

No....actually they are your ridiculous comments....not true at all and completely absurd!
Visca Barça!!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 42):
The second flight to GRU (A332) should become DAILY very soon.
Extra frequencies should be added on CDG-GIG.
REC is planned to be reopen soon by AF.

Hi Pierre!
I believe AF is just waiting the new bilateral to be signed by Brazil and France. Seems that it has been requested by AF and Tam (probably will allow Tam to begin GIG-CDG with weekly GIG-SSA-CDG).
It's very funny to see CDG-GIG loads... almost every day 433 or up!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
eastern023
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Iberia340600 (Reply 43):
No....actually they are your ridiculous comments....not true at all and completely absurd!

Based on personal experience, plus friends and family and add all the reviews on websites like ailinequality.com, Iberia is indeed a sub standard airline. Sad, but true. Serves a bad image as a flag carrier for Spain.

Check it yourself

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/iberia.htm

Denial only produces confussion!
AA will Rise Again!
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 45):
Based on personal experience, plus friends and family and add all the reviews on websites like ailinequality.com, Iberia is indeed a sub standard airline. Sad, but true. Serves a bad image as a flag carrier for Spain.

Check it yourself

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/iberia.htm

Denial only produces confussion!

You are kidding right? airlinequality.com? That is your basis? First off, most people write reviews when they have a bad experience. More than half of those bad experiences are overly exaggerated! I was just reading one on there about how MAdrids new terminal is a disaster and that only 2 immigration officers were working and 75% of the people missed their connections. So now that guy is an expert and knows FOR A FACT that they all missed their connections? Come on. I fly through the new terminal on a regular basis and have YET to find a long line at the new terminal coming from New York. So thats why Madrids Terminal 4 just won the Sterling Prize which is Great Britains most prestigious architecture award.

Plenty of people have GREAT experiences on Iberia...but as always there are the select few that love to bash IB. Check this post... Iberia Airlines And Madrid Barajas Airport...?

Yes people have good and bad experiences on all airlines....but to say things like:

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 27):

I think IB is the only airline where the chickens in the cockpit are flying the plane and the donkey/asses are pulling it through the air.

The airline smells like a mexican blanket.

are quite simply appauling and simply degrading. I have yet to hear what you/your family/your friends bad experiences have been. If you care to share, I would be more than willing to help you out.
Visca Barça!!
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 19):
I would not fly Iberia if the ticket was free and on first. British Airways, Lufthansa and soon LAN will be your best options.

= IB is a pretty crappy airline. Besides price and great connections to Latin America, I cannot really think of any reason to fly them.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
Iberia340600
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:57 am

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 47):
IB is a pretty crappy airline. Besides price and great connections to Latin America, I cannot really think of any reason to fly them

This coming from one of the usual IB bashers from the same region.  Yeah sure You guys never quit.
Visca Barça!!
 
krist0f
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 6:59 pm

RE: Not Enough Flights Between Europe And S. America?

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 47):
= IB is a pretty crappy airline. Besides price and great connections to Latin America, I cannot really think of any reason to fly them.

IB is quite good when it comes to BusinessPlus. I've flown them several times to JNB and GRU on the A346 and am very happy with the comfort in Business class with their almost fully reclinable seat/bed. However when it comes to Economy, I've gotta agree with you that there's better alternatives out there.

Cheers,

Kris.

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