ophila
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:11 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/061009/20061009005816.html?.v=1


I think this is good start for the Caribbean... unifying resources towards 1 or 2 sucessful airlines as oppossed to waht the have now! Feedback???
 
mdsh00
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 11:28 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:18 am

Well. Considering both of them run on Caribbean time, now it'll probably be one BIG airline that has so many delays and "exceptional" customer service.  Silly
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:44 am

Nice story but hard to believe when looking the different cultures of the Caribbean Islands and their "national pride" image they (mainly local governments) want to keep, even in our times. It is sad to see this still happening and I welcome mergers between any Caribbean airline as this is the only way they can survive and keep more effectively. For now I only say: I believe it when I see it!!! Big grin

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:57 am

Can I just say that despite what the perception is about Caribbean aviation, Caribbean Star has done a lot in terms of efficiency, customer relations and on time performance. While not perfect, there is very little you can fault 8B on especially if you look at it as a regional low cost carrier. The merger makes perfect sense, allowing for larger a/c to be used by the single entity instead of two competing smaller planes. Also LIAT is basically loosing money, but albiet not that much money, while 8B is allegedly making money. Allen Sanford knows what he's doing, and if he's merging then you bet it's gonna be a great merger. I hope they use the Caribbean Star branding, since the LIAT acronymn has become a bit like the BWIA acronymn- jokes, and bad public opinion.

No airline is perfect but 8B and LI merging is NOTHING like BW and JM merging!!! They are both based in ANU with major hubs in BGI and POS. They fly almost the exact same routes and there is plenty of room for expansion.

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):
Can I just say that despite what the perception is about Caribbean aviation, Caribbean Star has done a lot in terms of efficiency, customer relations and on time performance. While not perfect, there is very little you can fault 8B on especially if you look at it as a regional low cost carrier.

You are absolutely right. Caribbean Star indeed is one of the few successful airlines in the Caribbean but I was referring to LIAT and the other airlines (JM/BW). These airlines are need to seriously restructure before thinking of any mergers. Just my opinion.

A388
 
N701AA
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:08 pm

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):
Caribbean Star has done a lot in terms of efficiency, customer relations and on time performance.

..which is exactly where LIAT falters. Although LIAT has a very loyal customer base and for the past 50 years have fulfilled its mission in the Eastern Caribbean, a transformation in the terms mentioned by AA1818 are necessary to ensure a viable future. However, both airlines bring value to the integration and if you look at the resulting airline in terms of expanded route network (specially if you include Star's sister airline Sun), improved Dash 8 fleet, improved schedules, and customer loyalty, these two carriers seem to be a perfect fit.
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1866
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:10 pm

I guess A330323X could have more info on this, but what will happen to the GoCaribbean network that US Airways has built with Caribbean Sun? Will it be discontinued. IIRC, US had more service in the Caribbean than AA at one point in 2002-03.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:53 pm

Posted this topic yesterday, but everyone was asleep or something.:D

But in seriously, this is the best thing that can happen with Star and LIAT. The competition between the two is fierce, their flights run within minutes of each other, and strangley at times with similar flight number. eg. 356 GND / BGI and 756 GND / BGI, don't know if that number exists.

But with one airline, one bigger airline, they will have more resources, and in many ways, the airline will operate more efficiently.

What am I worried about? Prices. Before Star, and other competing airlines, LIAT had high prices. Of course LIAT being a bigger airline, ran the others out of business. Star was the only airline to survive, due to the Stanfords deep pockets.

Lets see how it unfolds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/caribbean/news/story/2006/10/061009_liat.shtml
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):
You are absolutely right. Caribbean Star indeed is one of the few successful airlines in the Caribbean but I was referring to LIAT and the other airlines (JM/BW). These airlines are need to seriously restructure before thinking of any mergers.

I agree that BW and JM are a joke and that no such merger should take place unless some aviation experts are given full control of both entities and there is no gov't interference or local private interference for a while. That of course will never happen, thus a merger, or rather a successful merger will NEVER happen in our lifetime (and I am including the new Caribbean Airlines within BW).

LIAT, though you are correct, is not profitable and not all that efficient. The main reason it is loosing money is due to great competition from it's competitor- 8B. I have a feeling that the Govt's of the Eastern Caribbean are in fact selling LIAT to 8B and not merging, however for the paperwork and public opinion etc it is being called a merger. I believe that the Caribbean Star brand will stay and that LIAT will be absorbed under 8B with as much LI staff being kept and others perhaps being sent to other Caribbean destinations where expansion can take place. The Gov't will have no say in the day to day affairs of the new entity, but will probably gain some shares in the 'new' entity to show the public. The new entity will be run efficiently as 8B had been before and will probably give Caribbean Airlines some really good competition on regional runs.

I am also anticipating many Dash8 Q400s, elimination of 8B's Dash8100- perhaps giving them to Caribbean Sun. And, through the grapevine, I have heard that some E-Jets might be purchased for some services. I have NO INFORMATION WHERE but I would like to venture a guess- Perhaps the USA, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Central America, South America, some Trinidad services.

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
commavia
Posts: 9651
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
IIRC, US had more service in the Caribbean than AA at one point in 2002-03.

USAirways has never been larger than AA to the Caribbean, and I believe that even includes when you count USAirways' regional affiliates and AA's Executive subsidiary.
 
ophila
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:12 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
I have heard that some E-Jets might be purchased for some services

I have great reason to believe that Ejets will enter into service w/ a South American connx and western carrib & bahamas as well.....but expect ejets 4 sure
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:43 am

Great post AA1818. I always enjoy reading your posts. I agree with you here as well. Like Captaink already mentions, I see higher prices coming as soon as these two airlines merge. The competition that brought lower prices to the market will fade away again when these two airlines, the biggest ones in their regions will join forces, sadly. I just hope that LIAT will retain its brand and livery as I would love to photograph this airline somewhere in the future. I always enjoyed watching their BAe748s at SXM when I was younger. Such a nice aircraft and rarely seen in our region, too bad they left....

AA1818, I remember you mentioning in another thread about BW/Caribbean Airways wanting to (re)start service from POS to CUR. Do you have an update on this? I'm very anxious as we need more airlift to CUR!!! Big grin

A388
 
YVRLTN
Posts: 2261
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:38 pm

I routed through POS in May last year and I saw Dash 8 300's operated by BW Express, my records show Q311's 9Y-WIL & WIN - one was pretty much all white with pink titles if i remember correctly. According to the latest JP, all three are stored at POS (WIL, WIN & WIP), but the two operated by Tobago Express (WIT & WIZ) are operational. Are these aircraft all still around and if so, what will happen to them with the shut down of BW and how will their operations be affected by the proposed 8B / LI merger?
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
I have heard that some E-Jets might be purchased for some services. I have NO INFORMATION WHERE but I would like to venture a guess- Perhaps the USA, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Central America, South America, some Trinidad services.

Both LI and 8B have been toying with the Ejets. In fact, Allen Stanford was recently given a E170 presentation by Embraer, including a short flight. Both airlines have been talking of using the EMBs on longer caribbean routes, and North American expansion, starting with South Florida. I imagine with the merger these plans would still be in effect.

Just to add though, LI is definitely not profitable, but 8B though with more finacing, isn't profitable either. The simple reason is that on some routes, the competition was riduclous. A classic example, at one point both 8B and LI had a 6am flight from GND to BGI. The majority of the time, the 8B flight left with less than 10 persons. Grenada does not need 54 (in the case of two 100 series) or 100 (in the case of 300 series) seats to BGI at time of the day, everyday. This is only one example. I am aware of the situation with LI and 8B in Grenada. I imagine that it is not too different in other islands.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 12):
I routed through POS in May last year and I saw Dash 8 300's operated by BW Express, my records show Q311's 9Y-WIL & WIN - one was pretty much all white with pink titles if i remember correctly. According to the latest JP, all three are stored at POS (WIL, WIN & WIP), but the two operated by Tobago Express (WIT & WIZ) are operational. Are these aircraft all still around and if so, what will happen to them with the shut down of BW and how will their operations be affected by the proposed 8B / LI merger?

Those aircraft are still around. One of the Tabex's DHC8 (WIT or WIN) from what i understand is not serviceable, but WIL, WIN and WIP are, and are used by TabEx. I think it will be a waiting game as BW owns 45% of TabEx. Caribbean Airlines does plan on bettering their intracaribbean network. So will they need their DHC8s? Will TAbEx and BW merge? Lets see.

BTW, expect to see C' Sun leave us. The employees at Sun are expecting it just that. As the region is back to Cat 1, expansion is now possible for Star.

[Edited 2006-10-11 07:40:59]
There is something special about planes....
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:30 pm

Hi AA how was NZ

Star has not been the great success that you think it is. The airline that you think was loosing more money was not.

The HQ will be at ANU for the time being. More focus will be given to BGI.
Expect management to be a true mixture of the two airlines. HQ may move to BGI this may not be in the immediate future but in the medium to long term.

As for the EJ that has been something that LIAT has been looking at for sometime. EJs will be used on the long thing routes.

The merger has been given the go ahead as it allow the shareholders with the best option of getting a return on their investment.


Interms of the future we have to see what Caribbean Airlines regional network will look like. This would dictate if they are friends or foe, but old habits die hard and my dollar is on the latter.

AA1818 any news on Caribbean Airlines. What will happen to the LHR route?? I heard that BA is to operate it for 5 years or until the airline gets a plane to fly the route? Any ideas about the new livery etc...

Regards
BWIA 772
Eagles Soar!
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
I guess A330323X could have more info on this, but what will happen to the GoCaribbean network that US Airways has built with Caribbean Sun? Will it be discontinued.

I see no reason why it would be.

US Airways does not codeshare as of yet with Caribbean Star, though it is a member of the GoCaribbean Network, likely since it is somewhat more of a hassle to codeshare with a foreign airline. The larger scope of the airline following the merger might in fact make it worth the hassle for US to codeshare with them as it already does with Caribbean Sun, WINAIR, and Bahamasair.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
IIRC, US had more service in the Caribbean than AA at one point in 2002-03.



Quoting Commavia (Reply 9):

USAirways has never been larger than AA to the Caribbean, and I believe that even includes when you count USAirways' regional affiliates and AA's Executive subsidiary.

I think what he's probably thinking of is that at one point for a year or two, US Airways served more Caribbean destinations nonstop from the continental U.S. than any other airline. That was when US was flying to places like SKB/UVF/GND nonstop from CLT/PHL, while AA only offered Eagle service from SJU.

US no longer holds that distinction, though, with AA adding flights from MIA. I don't know whether DL or CO has passed US in that regard as well; I'd guess that DL has but that CO has not. In reality, though, all four of the airlines now basically fly to every island in the Caribbean that can support such service, with only a few differences here and there. Of course, that's only speaking as to destinations; AA of course holds a commanding lead in terms of seats over the other three, with US holding a slight (and shrinking) lead over DL for second place.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:48 am

We also have an ex-DCA Dash-8 300 series that apparently is going to LIAT as the aircraft is already serviced and painted all white with dark blue engines but I don't know when it will be delivered to LIAT or if for that matter as the aircraft has been parked here in the partial LIAT colors for a very long time.

Does anyone have an idea on the status of this aircraft and its relation to LIAT?

On my photo link below you can see this aircraft from a distance here in CUR (I have mentioned this aircraft in the remarks of the photo):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter



Regards,

A388
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
AA1818, I remember you mentioning in another thread about BW/Caribbean Airways wanting to (re)start service from POS to CUR. Do you have an update on this? I'm very anxious as we need more airlift to CUR!!!

Thanks for your kind comments. No info on the new Caribbean Airlines. My guess is that there is little happenning to be honest since everything usually trickles down to my sources and nothing has come to me lately. The last think I was told, is that although the route is definitely being looked at with onward connection to either the Great Antilles, Central America or South America, it will probably not be one of the routes initially launched. Caribbean Airlines will be focussed on routes that are a sureity and that are necessary fro the economic viability of Trinidad and Tobago. I do expect, though, that CUR will be added eventually. The new fleet will be very small and will be fully utilized with minimal routes in January. But I can assure you, I am speaking to the right people and they assure me that CUR is definitely a possibility. I think it'll happen!!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 14):
Hi AA how was NZ

Absolutely fantastic- first ride on an Airbus narrowbody- which i enjoyed more than my 737 rides!!! Also the 747-400 was AMAZING!!!!! Saw Hong Kong, Australia (Sydney and Canberra), New Zealand (the entire south island) and Singapore. In Queenstown, NZ I did a flight simulator- it was amazing check it out- www.flightexperience.co.nz -the owners son said they are looking at global expansion in 2007!!!!! Also did a fantastic helicopter ride, sat up from with the pilot!!!!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 14):
Star has not been the great success that you think it is. The airline that you think was loosing more money was not.

I agree they are not the be all and end all of aviation, but for Caribbean Aviation they are truly a gem!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 14):
The HQ will be at ANU for the time being. More focus will be given to BGI.
Expect management to be a true mixture of the two airlines. HQ may move to BGI this may not be in the immediate future but in the medium to long term.

This has been a possibility for about 5 years now, and it has been a bargaining tool with staff in Antigua and the Antiguan Gov't. Caribbean Star, through the merger will probably have 3 bases- ANu, BGI and POS, all with their special niche, and all perhaps given equal focus- the headquarters will be a matter of how much money the government of the winning island is willing to give the new enterprise and what concessions it can offer. I believe they will remain headquartered in ANU for the forseeable furture, unless there is a compelling reason to move, but in practice there will probably be 2 main headquarters one in ANU, the other BGI with a lesser HQ in POS- if that makes any sense!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 14):
AA1818 any news on Caribbean Airlines. What will happen to the LHR route?? I heard that BA is to operate it for 5 years or until the airline gets a plane to fly the route? Any ideas about the new livery etc...

No real new news on Caribbean Airlines, but I can say that the last I heard (from the Board of Director's), the Gov't was negotiating with BA and possibly VS to serve the route. The problem is getting them to fly into POS. BA is a strong possibility. But basically a certin number of seats would be allocated to Caribbean Airlines for sale on behalf of them I gather. Caribbean Airlines, from the looks of things do intend on eventually serving the route when they get their long-haul a/c sorted out. I believe 9Y-JIL leased from VS A340-300 has already been returned or will be very soon...and 9Y-TJN might be on it's way out sooner than many think! Sad, but a reality we have to accept. BWIA is dying and in Trinidad and Tobago we are starting a not just a new chapter, but a new book in commercial aviation- POS will never look the same without the turquoise and yellow beauties!!!!!!

Cheers
Apologies for the length- got a bit carrier away/ too much coffee tonight!
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:15 pm

AA1818
Have any idea about what the new livery would look like?
Eagles Soar!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 18):
Have any idea about what the new livery would look like?

Better question, do think that a new livery can easily match BWs current striking scheme?
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 18):
Have any idea about what the new livery would look like?

Honestly I wish I did. And I doubt i'll be that priveledged to see what it looks like!

Quoting Captaink (Reply 19):
Better question, do think that a new livery can easily match BWs current striking scheme?

I have a feeling that given the T&T Government's recent trends of attempting to further unite the Caribbean, hence the name of the new enterprise, the scheme would reflect something Trinidadian so as to remind people where the airline is from and to give it a special identity as its main base will be in POS. I don't think we will see a red, white and black, a/c but I certainly expect, and hope to see some sort of Trinidadian marking on the a/c's!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:26 am

I hope that the livery is not a euro white crap. Anyway I was watching my justplanes BWIA DVD. I am really going to miss BWIA. On the other hand I am excited to see what Caribbean Airlines is going to be like. Even more excited at what their choice would be for the widebody aircraft when they decide to re launch the london route (i know its sometime off but...). I wont mind having the flagship of the Caribbean Airlines' fleet being named Caribbean Dream Big grin
Eagles Soar!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 20):
I don't think we will see a red, white and black, a/c but I certainly expect, and hope to see some sort of Trinidadian marking on the a/c's!

I hope it would be something exciting but reflecting its home Trinidad and Tobago. When you look at it though, BWIA old and new colors were both smashing in its time. So think we caribbean people tend to have a good imagination and we tend to like style, so I expect something nice from Caribbean Airlines.

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 21):
I am really going to miss BWIA.

Boy, I dunno nah, this is difficult as it is kinda hard to imagine POS with no BeeWee planes and signage around. I hope they are going to keep the name of the highway to Piarco, BWIA Blvd in honour of the great airline.
There is something special about planes....
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 18):
Have any idea about what the new livery would look like?

I suppose the new airline's livery will be plain and unimaginative... just like the service and management of the old BW... if the whole thing comes to pass at all.

As far as the LIAT/Caribbean Star merger... I feel that Caribbean Star will have a virtual monopoly over inter-island transport. Additionally, they will not have the loyalty LIAT had for its destinations... Caribbean Star will be purely business and will pull out of an island the instant it loses a penny... stranding that islands inhabitants and forcing them to use second rate transportation to obtain viable air services on another island. But then again, I suppose Caribbean Star will have to come up with some sort of agreement with LIAT's island shareholders to avoid this scenario.

[Edited 2006-10-13 04:01:10]
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:07 pm

Flybyguy

I was wondering why I did not come up with that answer myself. Then again I forget that I'm from the Caribbean and change is concept that we don’t do well with. The idea of having a regional carrier that provides consistant levels of good service while making a profit is to radical.

LOL a caribbean based viable carrier what a ludicrous idea....
Eagles Soar!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 24):
LOL a caribbean based viable carrier what a ludicrous idea....

Isn't it ever.

I agree with Flybyguy on the Caribbean Star / LIAT comment. About BW and its livery? I am not convinved.  Smile I think they would have a livery maybe not the best thing in the air, but far better than most liveries out there.
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 22):
Boy, I dunno nah, this is difficult as it is kinda hard to imagine POS with no BeeWee planes and signage around. I hope they are going to keep the name of the highway to Piarco, BWIA Blvd in honour of the great airline.

It's gonna be soo weird. I am not going home this Christmas, and I am currently studying in the UK, so the last time I was at home was before the plan to shut down BWIA and I remember when I left, I flew CO to IAH, but I saw about 4 BW 737 planes take off and had flown to London many times before on BW's L10-11 and A343. I will miss BWIA. The next time I am in Trinidad will be at Easter and It will be a total change for me not to see BWIA colours. I hope those of you who can, will visit POS and take some photos of BWIA planes, before they are only a figment of our imaginations and as icons on airliners.net

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 23):
As far as the LIAT/Caribbean Star merger... I feel that Caribbean Star will have a virtual monopoly over inter-island transport. Additionally, they will not have the loyalty LIAT had for its destinations... Caribbean Star will be purely business and will pull out of an island the instant it loses a penny... stranding that islands inhabitants and forcing them to use second rate transportation to obtain viable air services on another island. But then again, I suppose Caribbean Star will have to come up with some sort of agreement with LIAT's island shareholders to avoid this scenario.

I think that Caribbean Star already has a loyal following and I think that more and more inter-island travel is increasing so Caribbean Star willl not have any problems flying to any islands. I think all the English Speaking islands are covered. Caribbean Star had been rumoured to be looking into POS-CUR, POS-AUA, BGI- CUR some time ago (perhaps I am mistaken, but I remember reading it in a Trinidad newspaper, around the same time that BW had their shorlived POS-CUR-SDQ). Other islands yet to be tried are Jamaica, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Montserratt (though LIAT does fly there I think now), some of the Virgin Is which will not be a problem, and the Bahamas. Also services to SDQ, Haiti and other greater antilles will probably be looked into. In a few years I would think that Caribbean Star will be the largest inter island commuter ever to be stationed in the Caribbean- perhaps givin American Eagle a run for its money. Also I do not that the merger is without its preconditions such as- guarantees from Govt's that inter-island service will stay at least at a minimum level, and also guarantees that if there is not business sense in flying a route that the Gov't wants that the Gov't will make up the shortfall. I am expecting great things from Caribbean Star- I think Trinidad and Tobago would be smarter joining in on the fun and injecting some capital into Caribbean Star to be included in some guarantees of service. The Government of T&T could rest assured that inter-island traffic would be taken care of and could focus on getting foreign airlines to carry passengers to Central America, deep South America, North America and Europe, directly from POS.

Sorry once again for the long postings!
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 26):
I think that Caribbean Star already has a loyal following and I think that more and more inter-island travel is increasing so Caribbean Star willl not have any problems flying to any islands.

That is very true. The evidence lies in their Frequent Flyer program. For a new airline, Star has done wonders really. I am a bit biased as the handling compnay i worked for handled Star flights in GND. But I do prefer to fly Star. Many of the people I checked in, gave me stories and reasons for their switch. In the same breath, LIAT also has a very loyal and slightly larger customer base. Therefore it can be said, that both airlines are "doing their thing." The problem really lies in the fact that it is a bit too much for the region. Too many flights, too many seats, too few people, herein lies the problem, and the questions of profitability.
There is something special about planes....
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:13 am

Just a news update:

Quote:

(From Travel Weekly, 12 October, 2006)
(Antigua) Caribbean Star gains rights for 'broader expansion opportunities'.
By Gay Nagle Myers

Antigua-based Caribbean Star Airlines has been certified as a Category One airline under Antigua & Barbuda's new civil aviation regulations, opening the way for "broader expansion opportunities," according to Skip Barnette, president and CEO of Caribbean Star and its Florida-based sister carrier Caribbean Sun.

The move had been anticipated since last March when the Eastern Caribbean Civil Aviation Authority was upgraded to Category One status by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration.

The FAA's International Aviation Safety Assessments program, established in August 1992, focuses on a country's ability -- not an individual carrier's -- to adhere to standards and practices for aircraft operations and maintenance.

The ECCAA, which regulates the aviation industry in Organization of Eastern Caribbean States countries (including Antigua & Barbuda), was awarded Category One status by the Federal Aviation Administration in March, requiring OECS-based carriers, such as Caribbean Star, to be certified under the new guidelines to gain clearance to expand operations.

The recertification now allows the carrier to seek authorization from the FAA and the U.S. Dept. of Transportation to serve U.S. destinations and to code share with U.S. carriers.

"We are elated to issue Caribbean Star its new air operator's certificate," said Rosemond James, acting director general of the ECCAA. "This marks another milestone in the development of civil aviation in the OECS and within the wider Caribbean."
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 28):
Just a news update:

brilliant!!!!!! E195s 8B is coming for 'ya!!!!!!
What we need to look at is the range of the E-jets to see how far you can get from POS, BGI, GND, GEO and ANU but obviously ANU, BGI and perhaps POS will be most important for 8B!

Great news- does anyone have a time scale we can expect this merger to take place on- as in full integration and not merely a conclusion of discussions?

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
Lokey123
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:59 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 23):
Caribbean Star will be purely business and will pull out of an island the instant it loses a penny... stranding that islands inhabitants and forcing them to use second rate transportation to obtain viable air services on another island.

I doubt this very much, Mr. Stanford has shown a great deal of committment to the airline and the region, even as CSA is currently a loss making entity. I think the merger wil give them some leverage in their route structure.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
What we need to look at is the range of the E-jets to see how far you can get from POS, BGI, GND, GEO and ANU but obviously ANU, BGI and perhaps POS will be most important for 8B!

Funny that you mention that, I'm scheduled to do an E-jet analysis sometime next week, hopefully i can run some info on some intra-caribbean routes.

Personally, I wonder how much involvement the governments of Antigua, St. Vincent, Barbados etc will have on the new airline.
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:38 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 29):
but obviously ANU, BGI and perhaps POS will be most important for 8B!

While those would be the most important markets, I think 8B would do well taking care of some smaller markets such as GND, which for the most part has been neglected but has quite a bit of potencial, especially with airplane the size of the current Ejets. Maybe I am just biased being Grenadian. Big grin

Anyhow note this article from the Antigua Sun on the merger talks. Seems to me that that although great progress is being made, they are shying from making promises. However they are admitting that a merger is the most feasible way to go for the two carriers.

Quote:

Antigua Sun (1997)
Positive start to C-Star/Liat talks

Friday October 13 2006

Caribbean Star President and CEO William “Skip” Barnette is pleased with the “rapid” progress made during the first session of formal talks on the creation of a new airline from the assets of two regional airlines, LIAT and Caribbean Star.

A major goal in the new airline will be to turn a profit in its operations, a problem for both Caribbean Star and LIAT in their current competitive environment.

“I think we have a great opportunity to build a wonderful, highly efficient, highly effective and obviously safe airline that provides some return for its shareholders, which has not taken place so far and that is the criteria.

“Obviously, the sooner we are able to accomplish this, the better for everybody, because it does create a certain level of anxiety in people. We have not set any time limit (to negotiations) but we would certainly like to move rapidly towards this goal,” Barnette told the Antigua Sun.

Formal discussions between Barnette and LIAT CEO Mark Darby began on Wednesday and Barnette said much had been accomplished in that session, including the creation of goals and objectives for the new airline. The next step, he explained, would be to identify the core team members from within the two airlines, who will be responsible for reviewing aspects the resources of LIAT and Caribbean Star in areas including flight operations, maintenance and customer service. Those teams will then compile reports and make appropriate recommendations to a steering committee.

Despite the swiftly moving talks, Barnette made it clear that it was not a foregone conclusion that the new airline would be brought into existence.

“I am very confident of that, because it is the right thing to do and because the people and resources that we have are capable of accomplishing it, we can do it. However, there could be a point at which we determine that it’s not feasible,” he said, adding, “I hope we don’t reach that point.

“Neither Mark Darby nor I believe that we will reach that point, so we are going into it assuming that there will be a successful conclusion. If not, then we will go our separate ways and operate our carriers individually.”

At the same time, Barnette made it clear that he did not think that it was in the long-term best interest of Caribbean Star, LIAT or the people of the Caribbean for the two airlines to continue operating separately.

http://www.antiguasun.com/paper/?as=...06&ac=Local&aop=261357096610132006
There is something special about planes....
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:45 pm

Once the talks are completed the new airline is to be up and running by Jan 2007. The proposed plan was to collapse both airlines into a single new company. The respective governments will be shareholders but would pull out once the airline is on its feet and making a profit. However the amount of ownership the shareholders will have to be decided

I do not think that POS will initally by a base for the new airline.
Eagles Soar!
 
SWABFA
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:04 am

CARIBBEAN STAR ROCKS THE GALAXY!!!!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting SWABFA (Reply 33):
CARIBBEAN STAR ROCKS THE GALAXY!!!!

Always have.. Big grin
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 30):
Funny that you mention that, I'm scheduled to do an E-jet analysis sometime next week, hopefully i can run some info on some intra-caribbean routes.

Personally, I wonder how much involvement the governments of Antigua, St. Vincent, Barbados etc will have on the new airline.

Any chance you could also see how far the E-jets can make it to North and South America from POS, BGI and ANU??

The Gov'ts of the Caribbean Islands will have very little influence in the new Caribbean Star. Unlike the T&T Gov, the smaller islands have limited cash available to throw at big projects and require extrnal financing. This option if having a privately run, successful and efficient regional carrier, suits them best, and once the basic air lift is provided, they are very happy to sit back and relax. After all apart from intra- caribbean flying, they have left international flying to foreign carriers such as AA, DL, CO, BW, BA, VS etc!!

Quoting BWIA 772 (Reply 32):
I do not think that POS will initally by a base for the new airline.

Agreed, but even so after ANU and BGI it is perhaps 8B's 3rd most important city. Lots of connections, lots of feeder traffic. POS is and will not be a base for the new 8B until it begins some expansion into new markets. With a population of 1.2 million it will certainly be and is currently, one of the most important Caribbean markets, and at the rate that Trinidad is progressing and developing, it will only become more and more important. (a little biased, but then again, I am factually correct!)

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 35):
Agreed, but even so after ANU and BGI it is perhaps 8B's 3rd most important city. Lots of connections, lots of feeder traffic. POS is and will not be a base for the new 8B until it begins some expansion into new markets. With a population of 1.2 million it will certainly be and is currently, one of the most important Caribbean markets, and at the rate that Trinidad is progressing and developing, it will only become more and more important. (a little biased, but then again, I am factually correct!)

POS has also always been a very important 8B market, even up to the point that at some point in their history they did a couple airbridge flights, POS/TAB. POS was a very big crew base with a number of the important star flights originating and terminating there. Trinidad is one of the most important caribbean nations, the new airline will surely see to it, that it is well served.
There is something special about planes....
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 36):
even up to the point that at some point in their history they did a couple airbridge flights, POS/TAB

They still run air bridge flight AKAIK- I flew then sometime over the summer- LIAT also does/ did the airbridge. POS-CCS could be a market for 8B to get into as well- currently not served by BWIA!

Could a dash 8 do POS-KIN??? Perhaps if they acquired a Q400 they could give BW a good run. Non-stop with jet like comfort and speed and the economics of a turbo prop, 8B could well incorporate the Q400 for ops out of POS and BGI where traffic will be heavier than out of the smaller islands.

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 37):
Could a dash 8 do POS-KIN??? Perhaps if they acquired a Q400 they could give BW a good run. Non-stop with jet like comfort and speed and the economics of a turbo prop, 8B could well incorporate the Q400 for ops out of POS and BGI where traffic will be heavier than out of the smaller islands.

I am not sure about a -300 doing the POS/KIN as it is a pretty long flight on the 737. But a 400 might be an idea. I guess we need to see what Caribbean Airlines has up their sleeve, before we see how the 'new' Star can give them a run.

I do agree with you on the -400 ops out of BGI and POS. How have other airlines been doing with their 400 series?
There is something special about planes....
 
Lokey123
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:59 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 35):
Any chance you could also see how far the E-jets can make it to North and South America from POS, BGI and ANU??

I'll give it the old college try and see what i come up with...will let you know what i come up with.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 35):
The Gov'ts of the Caribbean Islands will have very little influence in the new Caribbean Star.

I don't think that they will have a hand in things like day to day ops and or planning but i can see it being feasible that they play a role in influencing other minor matters that involve the airline, afterall, politics always has played a role in aviation, esp caribbean aviation
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 39):
I don't think that they will have a hand in things like day to day ops and or planning but i can see it being feasible that they play a role in influencing other minor matters that involve the airline, afterall, politics always has played a role in aviation, esp caribbean aviation

While this is true, we would hope that their influence is minimal at least, because the sad truth is that it will not lead to a successful airline, if the govt's are deeply involved, as is the current situation with LIAT.

I honestly think, that the combination of the two airlines can be a successful venture. We are talking about very minimal competition & a strong financial background. This is indeed the recipe for success. Lets see if the 'chefs' at hand can pull it off. In the same breath, I hope it would mean better service at reasonable prices, much to the benefit of the flying caribbean public.
There is something special about planes....
 
Inbound
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:59 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:28 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 38):
I am not sure about a -300 doing the POS/KIN as it is a pretty long flight on the 737. But a 400 might be an idea. I guess we need to see what Caribbean Airlines has up their sleeve, before we see how the 'new' Star can give them a run.

Who knows, ,maybe there won't be any need to give Caribbean Airlines a run.
New rumour is if the Star/Liat merge takes place, its new name could quite possibly be "Caribbean Airlines Express".

add that to the pot!
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Inbound (Reply 41):
Who knows, ,maybe there won't be any need to give Caribbean Airlines a run.
New rumour is if the Star/Liat merge takes place, its new name could quite possibly be "Caribbean Airlines Express".

add that to the pot

You just hadda come and complicate the thing eh.. Big grin Just joking.

But no that does make the whole scenario interesting. I was reading a post on caribbeanalpa, and someone mentioned some very interesting coincidences between BW/CA & the whole 8B/LI deal. Leaves one wondering...
There is something special about planes....
 
A388
Posts: 7159
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:25 pm

If BW and 8B/LI would combine forces that will indeed be a very powerful airline in our region, probably the most powerful Caribbean airline so far. Let's see how (or if) JM will react to this if it goes through.....

A388 Big grin
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:29 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 43):
If BW and 8B/LI would combine forces that will indeed be a very powerful airline in our region, probably the most powerful Caribbean airline so far. Let's see how (or if) JM will react to this if it goes through.....

As a Trini, I would say this is very favourable. No more handing out millions to a struggling carrier. However, the GOTT is very set on having a national carrier. They believe that for the status of the T&T and for it's own economic pursuits, having a home grown carrier is necessary. However, some sort of fusion of Caribbean Airlines and the new LI/8B would be fantastic.

If ever there was a merger on the face of the planet that made sense it is LI and 8B- fleet commonality, route commonality, eliminating competition and providing lift more efficiently without any/ minimal change in route structure! Any chance that Caribbean Sun will be re-absorbed into Star since the Eastern Caribbean is now back at Cat 1 status??

Quoting Inbound (Reply 41):
Who knows, ,maybe there won't be any need to give Caribbean Airlines a run.
New rumour is if the Star/Liat merge takes place, its new name could quite possibly be "Caribbean Airlines Express".

Where is that one from? Is it a coincidence that they are looking at the same name but with the 'expres' title? or is it planned perhaps that there will some major co-operation??? Have been out of T&T since the end of August, so I miss a lot of rumours, and the only info I get is from a very reliable source who hears everything from the horse's mouth!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:38 pm

Wonderful news for the Caribbean aviation industry.I get very nostalgic when i remember spotting LIAT airplanes flying low from my house in Crossbies residential area in Saint John's.I also remember Air Canada DC-8S and Eastern B727 at Birds international
Wonderful Antigua !
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:25 pm

Sorry for posting in this thread like 100 times, but I thought I should say that being from the Caribbean, I am really proud to see so much discussion for a Thread based on Caribbean Aviation, and I hope to see many more regular threads to do with Caribbean Aviation. I also noticed that our Jamaican friends on A.net have been VERY silent! Anyone with an update on JM- any more routes been axed, fleet numbers, future plans? What is going on with JM Express? Who is running it, fleet, what routes?

Cheers
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
westindian425
Posts: 729
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 7:46 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:17 pm

I think we'll start to see things happening with JM once the dust starts to settle with BW and 8B/LI. It really has been quiet on that front.

Now here's something I did not know...8B has a Trinidad crew base.

Neil
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
 
aa1818
Posts: 1515
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:13 pm

Quoting Westindian425 (Reply 47):
Now here's something I did not know...8B has a Trinidad crew base.

Is this a new thing or has this been the case for a long time?? If it is relatively recent (withint the last year) it could be a sign of things to come as i said earlier...using POS as a base for southern caribbean/ south american ops!!!! I will be so happy if they started doing that- POS would finally be better utilized!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
jm017
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:47 pm

RE: Caribbean Star Airlines & Liat

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 46):
What is going on with JM Express? Who is running it, fleet, what routes?

JM Express no longer exists. They stopped operations last October.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."