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N328KF
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Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:10 am

Brief fair use excerpt:

Quote:
Under-fire aircraft manufacturer Airbus has been dealt another blow, after Qatar Airways confirmed plans to take delivery of a further 20 Boeing 777s. The airline will run 40 Boeings in total.

“We placed a firm order for the first 20, but we are planning to buy 40 all together,” Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker revealed, scotching concerns that the US$4.9 billion deal had been aborted, after Boeing removed a press release for the order from its website earlier this month.

[...]

“We were a solely Boeing fleet until 1997, after that we converted to Airbus and now we are keen to operate Boeings again. We have also ordered a large number of Airbus A350s, and we certainly need both models to serve our large expansion plans.”

[...]

http://www.itp.net/business/news/details.php?id=22266&category=
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kaitak744
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:14 am

Very cool. However, they won't be able to get slots until 2008-2009.

(PS: I know Randy Baseler reads this forum, so this is a massage to him: Time to built new assembly lines!)
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:14 am

This is the 2-point conversion after a touchdown.  Wink

Score another for the good guys.  duck 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:15 am

I saw this as well. This is the same statement that has been posted here before, but the timestamp on the article is more recent. While it is true that the wording of QR's original commitment announcement last year suggested a minimum order of 20 777s, I am skeptical of their ability to grow that much when their regional competitors also have similar ideas. Personally, I think al-Baker is off his rocker.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:16 am

QR always said they would take "at least" 20 B777s, so it's not a huge surprise.

This significantly increases the chances that the B777 will reach 1000.
 
727200er
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:00 am

Well it looks like a bit more good news for the big B  Smile
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:21 am

Question: On what routes will QR use these planes? I'm not doubting that the airline can make money, but after the thread recently on possible overcapacity in the Middle East, is there really a need for 40 long range high-capacity planes?
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
This significantly increases the chances that the B777 will reach 1000.

If this QR order is signed, it brings Boeing to 871 units for the 777 program.

Both the 777 and 767 are going to get really close. Sure hope they make it!  Smile
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-30

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
Question: On what routes will QR use these planes? I'm not doubting that the airline can make money, but after the thread recently on possible overcapacity in the Middle East, is there really a need for 40 long range high-capacity planes?

1. they are not "high capacity." Knowing Qatar Air, they will probably put Emirates style suites and have other cabin luxuries. Their 777s will probably end up carrying ~270 seats.

2. If you think about it, tourism in Qatar, and the basic business travel demand in the middle east is growing. Having a fleet of 60 A350 for short/medium haul and 40 777-300ERs is adequate. Not to mention, alot of Qatar Airways aircraft are used for special government charters.

They only thing in the middle east that is out of place is Emirate's 45 A380s (and rumors are that they might even cancel them).
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:58 am

The article does not say 773ER specifically. I do not remember what was the break down of QR's 20 signed order. But is there a chance that 772LR will also be ordered?.

What does this say about the competition of A350XBW and 777LR, since they both are in the same market, and QR has order/commitment to both models.

Cheers,
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:24 pm

This article seems to be outdated. First, wasn't back in June or July when Boeing removed the QR press release? This article says that occurred "earlier this month." Second, the article refers only to the June delays in the A380 program and the delivery schedule accurate as of June.

I think the date at the top of the article is only an indication of today's date -- I clicked on some other articles around the site, and they all displayed the same way.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 10):
This article seems to be outdated. First, wasn't back in June or July when Boeing removed the QR press release? This article says that occurred "earlier this month." Second, the article refers only to the June delays in the A380 program and the delivery schedule accurate as of June.

It doesn't matter its date, as long as it's from within the last few months. The key piece of information is that it made specific reference to 20 additional 777s.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Wow! That is great news for the big 7!!!

 Smile
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
2. If you think about it, tourism in Qatar, and the basic business travel demand in the middle east is growing. Having a fleet of 60 A350 for short/medium haul and 40 777-300ERs is adequate.

Everyone should note that, should this add-on come to fruition, there will not be 40 777-300ERs. Already, the split is 14 -300ER's and 6 -200LR's. I'd imagine that if this order is indeed placed, there will be a similar break-down, possibly with the 777-200F also in the mix, which the airline has earlier expressed an interest in.

Regards,

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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:59 pm

Wow, this is excellent news for Boeing and QR. Bet Airbus isn't 100% happy about this
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kaitak744
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
Everyone should note that, should this add-on come to fruition, there will not be 40 777-300ERs. Already, the split is 14 -300ER's and 6 -200LR's.

Good point. I would imagine a few 777Fs in their fleet as well.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 2):
good guys.

??? I guess all those satan worshippers in France in Germany will be damned!

40 777-300ERs - maybe then they will launch the Kangaroo route!
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:18 pm

QR is planning to launch 15 new routes next year.
All I know is ;

GRU
IAD ( Pending FAA approval )
OTP
DAR
LAG ( Lagos Nigeria )

Do not know the other but Senior Mgr Commercial planning confirmed 1 new routes.

anybody want to take a guess ???
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 1):
Time to built new assembly lines!)

No kidding Randy. You've got that entire big facility at long beach that used to turn out DC-10s and MD-11s. I bet it could roll out 777s and 787s just as easily. Get that stuff fired up. Someone has to build all the jets Airbus isn't.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
This significantly increases the chances that the B777 will reach 1000.

Sure does. Boeing will have sold more 777s than any two Airbus widebodies combined.... The 777 is a phenomenon, and I'm not convinced we've seen the last 777 variants. If the A350 goes forward, expect Boeing to counter it with 777 upgrages.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Wow, this is excellent news for Boeing and QR. Bet Airbus isn't 100% happy about this

I don't think Airbus is 100% happy about most of what's been happening with themselves lately.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:33 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
No kidding Randy. You've got that entire big facility at long beach that used to turn out DC-10s and MD-11s. I bet it could roll out 777s and 787s just as easily. Get that stuff fired up. Someone has to build all the jets Airbus isn't.

I think that one's been sold. My guess is that they're probably in the process of dismantling the DC-9/717 plant. The real estate is worth a fortune, and Boeing has plenty of room or can make room elsewhere.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-30

Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:48 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 18):
You've got that entire big facility at long beach that used to turn out DC-10s and MD-11s. I bet it could roll out 777s and 787s just as easily.

The likelihood of commercial aircraft production ever returning to Southern California is slim to none. The cost of doing business there is just too high. Unfortunately, the reality is that the only vestige of the "Building 80" production complex at LGB will soon be the iconic "Fly DC Jets" sign. Sad

[Edited 2006-10-10 09:57:38]
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:38 pm

Hmm scratchchin 

What happened to all the a.netters telling Boeing to never deal with QR again? sarcastic 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:04 pm

@FlyDreamliner
"Boeing will have sold more 777s than any two Airbus widebodies combined...."

Yes, that could happen.But so far its the A330/340 which leads.  

"The 777 is a phenomenon, and I'm not convinced we've seen the last 777 variants. If the A350 goes forward, expect Boeing to counter it with 777 upgrages. "

Yes, i expect more versions to follow as well.And i hope it! I could imagine a B777-300ERF for integrators like FedEx and UPS for example.

[Edited 2006-10-10 11:05:47]
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:17 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 11):
It doesn't matter its date, as long as it's from within the last few months. The key piece of information is that it made specific reference to 20 additional 777s.

True and thank you for sharing it with us, however;

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
This is the same statement that has been posted here before,

Qatar To Buy 20 *More* 777s? posted by Tak last month.

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
there will not be 40 777-300ERs. Already, the split is 14 -300ER's and 6 -200LR's.

 thumbsup  thank you sir and your following point is most valid too;

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
I'd imagine that if this order is indeed placed, there will be a similar break-down, possibly with the 777-200F also in the mix, which the airline has earlier expressed an interest in.

The interest in the 772F was first expressed at Le Bourget 2005. The initial 20 777s ordered are from delivery in November 2007 through to Q3 2010. If this second tranche is ordered, it'll be interesting to see the mix and delivery schedule that QR will proceed with.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 2):
Score another for the good guys.

What an odd statement. I never knew Airbus was evil...

Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Wow, this is excellent news for Boeing and QR. Bet Airbus isn't 100% happy about this

Wy not? They clearly stated they need both the Boeing AND Airbus models. If they take all 60 a350's (if and when the damn thing finally launches) it will still be 60-40 in A's favour.

All I can say is that with all these aircraft (100 new aircraft if they take all 777's and a350's), they better start serving AMS!!!  Wink
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:52 pm

Funny how when airlines order 40 Airbuses its doom and gloom overcapacity unsustainble growth etc, but when they order 40 Boeings its:

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 2):
Score another for the good guys
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
I am skeptical of their ability to grow that much when their regional competitors also have similar ideas.

I also question where these mideast airlines are gonna find all those fannies to sit in all these seats they're ordering. A fleet of 40 777s is enormous. And 60 350s on top of that?
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:49 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 26):
And 60 350s on top of that?

Well..."up to 60" at any rate.  Wink
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:14 pm

Excellent news, but who are they going to get to fill all those seats?
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 28):
Excellent news, but who are they going to get to fill all those seats?

One of the continuing mysteries on a.net! I'll make a prediction though; it won't be with O&D traffic--not in the near term at any rate....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 29):
One of the continuing mysteries on a.net! I'll make a prediction though; it won't be with O&D traffic--not in the near term at any rate....

They must be banking on the service levels drawing customers away from the competition.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:37 pm

man I cant believe all the negative comments from the Airbus fanboys in this thread.

 thumbsdown 

How many of these frames will be to replace older Airbus models?
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting GFA330 (Reply 17):
IAD ( Pending FAA approval )

I'm surprised by this - IAD seems to be a much smaller market than CHI or LAX or SFO.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):
I'm surprised by this - IAD seems to be a much smaller market than CHI or LAX or SFO.

Smaller, maybe; "much smaller", I doubt it!

[Edited 2006-10-10 15:54:37]
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:54 pm

Huh?!? What negative comments?? You're the first to start a war...
There was one valid question, why is 45 A380s overkill but 100 777 and 350 not?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 31):
man I cant believe all the negative comments from the Airbus fanboys in this thread.

thumbsdown

How many of these frames will be to replace older Airbus models?
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-30

Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 29):
Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 28):
Excellent news, but who are they going to get to fill all those seats?

One of the continuing mysteries on a.net! I'll make a prediction though; it won't be with O&D traffic--not in the near term at any rate....

What about the overflow from DXB of the nascent hordes coming to visit "Dubai World?"  rotfl 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 34):
There was one valid question, why is 45 A380s overkill but 100 777 and 350 not?

Because smaller aircraft like the 777 and A350 are inherently more versatile, unlike the A380 which epitomizes a niche aircraft.

In other words, if these mega-airlines do liquidate, there's a much better chance that a 777 or A350 could find a new home than the A380. That significantly reduces the risk involved with such aggressive fleet planning.

Personally, I am very dubious of all the capacity building up in the middle east...

Quoting Johnny (Reply 22):
Yes, that could happen.But so far its the A330/340 which leads.

Remove the A330-200 or include the 763ER and its the 777 by a wide margin.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:06 pm

I wonder if ther eis a chance that QR will not go through with the A350 order and instead order the 787?
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
This significantly increases the chances that the B777 will reach 1000.

Was that ever a doubt? The plane has only been flying for 11 years, has 851 orders and although the -200 and -200ER may be slowing down, there is a lot of life left on the -300ER and -200LR. If the 777 didn't reach 1000 I would be shocked. I wouldn't be surprised if it reached 1,500!
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:47 pm

@DfwRevolution
"Remove the A330-200 or include the 763ER and its the 777 by a wide margin."

No, include the B767-400 which matches the A332 in terms of capacity.

I see the A330/340 ending around 1200 including A332Fs, but the B777-Family at more than 1500.

So, yes - i belive the B777-Family will outsell the Airbus-Family!

 Smile
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):
I'm surprised by this - IAD seems to be a much smaller market than CHI or LAX or SFO.

Could be for government employee trips between Qatar and the United States.

UA is evidently seeing strong yields in pax and cargo on their IAD-KWI flight.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):
I'm surprised by this - IAD seems to be a much smaller market than CHI or LAX or SFO.

Could be for government employee trips between Qatar and the United States.

UA is evidently seeing strong yields in pax and cargo on their IAD-KWI flight.

Not to mention if Qatar becomes a full member of Star Alliance - then IAD is a no brainer...
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 37):
I wonder if ther eis a chance that QR will not go through with the A350 order and instead order the 787?

Al Baker said himself they need both. So I guess it's up to Airbus on whether or not they will take the a350.
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:28 am

Wow this is great!
Just hope Qatar would start service to CPH, now that it seems UAE has scrapped the plan all together.

A B777-300ER here in CPH  cloudnine 

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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 8):
1. they are not "high capacity." Knowing Qatar Air, they will probably put Emirates style suites and have other cabin luxuries. Their 777s will probably end up carrying ~270 seats.

Thats very true as QRs A 346s only seat 268 pax in a luxurious 3 class layout which is a waste for such a big aircraft. They have comprised extra seating capacity for more luxury in F and J class cabins on board their A 346s.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 32):

I'm surprised by this - IAD seems to be a much smaller market than CHI or LAX or SFO.

IAD maybe a smaller market in terms of size, but the yield from IAD is very high due to the diplomatic and business base in that area + surrounding areas of Baltimore, Richmond and the Carolinas. QR doesnt have an aircraft capable of flying DOH-SFO/LAX nonstop as yet.

Their CEO has confirmed EWR flights to begin from April 2007 nonstop from DOH with the A 346s and IAD is next. Also remember that in DOH, a large U.S. military base is situated hence by placing a large BOEING 777 order, they hope to win some lucurative U.S. Govt contracts for high yielding passengers and cargo on this route.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 39):
No, include the B767-400 which matches the A332 in terms of capacity.

The 764ER was never the principle member of the 767 family that was bid against the A332. Despite the difference in capacity, the true comparison lies between the 763ER and the A332.

In any event, the 777 is only mission compatible with the A333, A342/A343, and A345/A346. It makes little sense to include the A332, unless you want to greatly complicate the matter.

A simmilar (although less dramatic) measure can be to remove the 773A/777F, as Airbus never developed a direct competitor in that niche.
 
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 29):
One of the continuing mysteries on a.net! I'll make a prediction though; it won't be with O&D traffic--not in the near term at any rate....

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...20/Gulf+special+Fighting+talk.html

Dubai's growing popularity as a destination has seen Emirates' transfer business decline to less than 50% in recent years - a situation that Clark concedes would have been beyond the airline's wildest dreams when the airline was first getting going 20 years ago. "The increasing Dubai O&D [origin and destination] traffic is good for business as yields are higher than for the transfer business," he says. However Clark expects in the longer term, when the large A380 fleet is up and running, that the business will stabilise at a 50/50 level between O&D and transfer.


PH
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 24):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 14):
Wow, this is excellent news for Boeing and QR. Bet Airbus isn't 100% happy about this

Wy not?

Because Boeing have stollen an all Airbus operator (well you can take it, that Boeing have gotten their revenge and in many other ways over the last few years). A340s aren't selling well and this is another massive blow to the failing A340 line
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PolymerPlane
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 44):
Thats very true as QRs A 346s only seat 268 pax in a luxurious 3 class layout which is a waste for such a big aircraft. They have comprised extra seating capacity for more luxury in F and J class cabins on board their A 346s.

I think even SQ's 773ER has lower seat count than their 772ER. It's probably for yield management more than capacity, as the former is much more important than the latter  Wink

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thebry
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RE: Al Baker: QR Is Ordering Not 20, But 40 777-300ERs

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 22):
@FlyDreamliner
"Boeing will have sold more 777s than any two Airbus widebodies combined...."

Yes, that could happen.But so far its the A330/340 which leads.  

Not really a fair comparison. Funny how people have said the 767 was "killed" by the A330, but in your argument above, the A330 is being combined with the A340 to outsell the 777 line. Which does it compete against? Pick one! Can't really have it both ways. I think these comparisons are silly for just that reason.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 36):
Remove the A330-200 or include the 763ER and its the 777 by a wide margin.

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