jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:03 am

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=22396

JetBlue wins round with FAA for O’Hare access

(Crain’s) — The Federal Aviation Administration has brushed aside objections raised by United Airlines and American Airlines, saying it could allow JetBlue Airways Corp. or any new entrant to gain access to O’Hare International Airport under a flight-capping system that will be modified October 29.

But the FAA postponed a final decision on the discount carrier’s request for eight arrivals a day at O’Hare, saying it would be addressed “later.”

United and American, the dominant carriers at O’Hare, had objected to JetBlue’s request, arguing that it should apply for landing rights under the new rule that goes into effect Oct. 29, which would require a new entrant to buy or lease slots if any new landing rights become available.

While putting off a decision on JetBlue, the FAA noted that any new entrant could gain access to O’Hare under the current flight cap rule that expires Oct. 28, as long as it obtains gates and other facilities needed to start flying within 90 days, or Jan. 27, 2007.

“The Department of Aviation recently learned that space may soon become available on a common use gate in O'Hare's Terminal 2, which will be vacated by America West before the end of this month,” says a spokeswoman for the Chicago Department of Aviation. “Depending on the airline, this gate can accommodate about seven to 10 flights daily.”

JetBlue is the only carrier that has applied for landing rights under the current rule, which doesn’t require payment for the slots.

“Our objection was to the process, not JetBlue entering the market,” says a United spokesperson. “We’d still like a fair process and one that other carriers have followed.”

A spokesman for JetBlue declined to comment on the FAA order until a final decision is rendered. “We are very interested in O’Hare. This is a process we have to go through.”
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Thread starter):

“Our objection was to the process, not JetBlue entering the market,” says a United spokesperson. “We’d still like a fair process and one that other carriers have followed.”

And it hasn't been a fair process,Me smelleth a certain NY senator in on this.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:54 am

This whole process is getting stupid, just approve them already and let B6 get in there. People have been complaining for so long, just let 'em in.

B6jfk airplane 
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 622
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:57 am

Isn't competition good for the economy, and more importantly, the consumer?

(Rhetorical question by the way)

-Feister
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:58 am

It's simple..just lift all flight caps,don't mind seeing Blue here,the fact UAL and AMR relinquished flights is what a lot of people are complaining about.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
daron4000
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:17 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:06 am

I hope the FAA lets B6 in, just so UA and AA can add back ALL the flights they cut to SUPPORT the FAA in cutting delay times. I think that would be better revenge than not letting B6 in, at least for UA and AA. Of course, they'd have to wait until after the DOT releases the China authority so that it doesn't go to CO  Smile.
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 5):
I hope the FAA lets B6 in, just so UA and AA can add back ALL the flights they cut to SUPPORT the FAA in cutting delay times. I think that would be better revenge than not letting B6 in, at least for UA and AA. Of course, they'd have to wait until after the DOT releases the China authority so that it doesn't go to CO

The game is simple if B6 enters the Chicago market AA/UA/DL will flood them out with the same fares, and higher frequency. It is a lose - lose situation for B6.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:26 am

AA and UA cause problems for B6 in this market yes, DL no.
I just looked up flights from the NYC area to chicago on DL and found that there are only 6 flights each day 1 from JFK and 5 from LGA. IF B6 does a 4x JFK-ORD on the 320's or emb-190's then B6 should have no problem (They compete well in the NYC-florida market which is one of DL's main markets and one in which DL could easily have dumped more capacity in if they had wanted to).
 
jfk69
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:04 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:29 am

It may be a lose/lose for B6, but for consumers this is a win win. No person on this board should be upset if B6 were to start. This would jack up frequency and lower fares. I hope B6 does well, but even if they don't, as a consumer I win.
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:15 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting Charlienorth (Reply 1):
And it hasn't been a fair process,Me smelleth a certain NY senator in on this.

Nah, if Chuck was in this we'd see him on the news with one of his damned charts blabbing away.  Silly

It seems pretty simple to me - the existing rules are in place until October 28th. JetBlue opted to apply under the existing rules instead of waiting for the new ones. Anyone else can also apply before Oct 28. AA and UA may object to the existing rules, and they're within their rights to protest, just as B6 is within its rights to protest the Love Field "comprimise."

Actually, as a B6 fan and stockholder (a whopping 175 shares), I'd prefer they not go into Chicago. While I don't think it'll be a bloodletting, AA and UA will lower fares enough to make the yields miserable. There are better things to do with the equipment...
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:44 am

Well, well...........where are all my detractors? The degreed economist and the rest of the UAL/AMR apologists. It is all really rather simple....not complicated as the spin from UAL/AMR........the FAA wanted a vehicle for new entrants into ORD and they spelled it out........but wait, that can't be right.......according to those high-priced corporate mouthpieces for both companies.

Like I said, it's a done deal......get over it! The rest of the gates and slots will come when UAL and their merger dance partner want the DOJs blessing.

[Edited 2006-10-11 03:49:27]
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 6):
The game is simple if B6 enters the Chicago market AA/UA/DL will flood them out with the same fares, and higher frequency. It is a lose - lose situation for B6.

DL barely serves NYC-CHI, except for a few RJ's. AA and UA...yes they will match fares and increase frequency...but that won't "flood jetBlue out of town"...just like they did not on the NYC-Los Angeles route. AA, DL, UA and others serve it and jetBlue is flourishing on JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT. Same goes for JFK-BOS/IAD.

Many ask what will jetBlue bring to the table on JFK-ORD, since fares are already low. Well, for starters walk-up fares will be more reasonable. And, the IFE obviously - on a 1-2 hour flight, it might not be such a big factor but it is definitely something to consider. When traffic/weather is bad, and a flight is held on the ground at orgin or destination for a few hours, the TV is there and makes people happier. We live in a connected/linked world. Especially on a business route like this, business people can stay in touch with CNBC or even just watch ESPN to relax for a little. In addition, jetBlue's airplanes will most likely be the first to become internet-accessable at 35,000 feet. The wireless internet (which hopefully will be offered soon) is definitely another selling point for these business travelers. What else will jetBlue bring? Award-winning customer service, friendly people and fewer policies/restrictions especially for the "Average Joe."

So, back to the above quote...will jetBlue be forced out of ORD if they do get the approval to fly there? I highly doubt it...they proved so many wrong on their transcon service, NYC-BOS/IAD service, and NYC-Florida (competing directly with DL).

It has been rumored that jetBlue will be announcing an international codeshare soon - this will also enhance the service.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
Wsan581
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 11):
just like they did not on the NYC-Los Angeles route. AA, DL, UA and others serve it and jetBlue is flourishing on JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT. Same goes for JFK-BOS/IAD.

 checkmark  Thank You!All the nay sayers bashed B6 for entering into the shuttle market, as they did when B6 entered LA. jetBlue has succeeded in these markets.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:18 am

An extra 600-800 seats a day from Chicago to the NY Metro market won't mean a hill of beans when the majors offer from ORD and MDW something like 15,000-18,000 seats a day.

When IDE was flying CHI-WAS 12 RT's a day I could always get a walkup seat for $199 or less, even when UAL or AAL or SWA was full and buying people off.

Yields will be crappy for the first couple of years at least. Delays will eat 'em alive (has anyone noticed that the 1900Z bank at JFK is over the arrival rate almost every day???) and most international pax will opt to take AAL or UAL or their Alliance partners directly out of ORD.

If JBU wins ORD slots, look for UAL and AAL to ask the FAA and the City of Chicago for other dispensations. Big money talks. Do you think that JBU will pay the same price for Jet-A as the majors at ORD (serious city/county tax on fuel at ORD and MDW)? How much will line maintenance contracts cost them at ORD...don't expect the carriers with local maintenance to give their services away.

Has JBU even considered the price of a serious Chicagoland advertising plan?
Local sales staff calling on the tens of thousands of Chicagoland corporate customers?

It will be entertaining to hear the JBU flight ops coordinators whining on the SPO about ORD delays. They whine about every CAN route or JFK groundstop or A761 reroutes from Florida.

Even 15 years ago, there was very little service from ORD to JFK...just no demand. Maybe one or two flights a day on the majors. Hard to get the business traveler to think of JFK as the best destination for his/her quick trip to NYC.

I am sure that some leisure/thrifty pax will do anything to save $20 on a roundtrip to the Big Apple, even when it will take 'em 6-8 hours to get there.

So let 'em come to ORD...no big deal.

[Edited 2006-10-11 04:23:33]
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
Wsan581
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 6):
The game is simple if B6 enters the Chicago market AA/UA/DL will flood them out with the same fares, and higher frequency. It is a lose - lose situation for B6.

When B6 entered LGB, AA added non-stop service to JFK, what happened?

When B6 entered OAK, AA added non-stop service to JFK, what happened?

When B6 entered CLT. US added service to JFK, B6 still sees high load to CLT.

And the list goes on. My point is that where ever B6 enters there will be competition. B6 is able to hold there ground in these markets and ORD will be no different.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 11):
jetBlue is flourishing on JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT.

Yes we all know how well MCO-BUR was.. rotfl 

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 14):
When B6 entered LGB, AA added non-stop service to JFK, what happened?

AA added an additional LAX-JFK with the 762

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 14):
When B6 entered OAK, AA added non-stop service to JFK, what happened?

AA added an additional SFO-JFK with the 762

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 14):
When B6 entered CLT. US added service to JFK, B6 still sees high load to CLT

US entered the JFK market into its already frequent NYC schedule to EWR, LGA, and coming soon HPN.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 11):
And, the IFE obviously - on a 1-2 hour flight, it might not be such a big factor but it is definitely something to consider.

Only important to ADHD pre-teenagers raised on Sesame Street. Serious business people will be on their cellphones and broadband wireless laptop connections (Verizon and Sprint) doing business. Leisure adult travelers will take a few minutes of shut-eye after consuming 3 or more martinis in the concourse bar waiting out their delay. Kewl college kids will be going through their Ipod playlists.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 16):
Only important to ADHD pre-teenagers raised on Sesame Street.

Well maybe but when I have flown B6 on JFK-IAD-JFK many business men were watching all the news channels and such and many business men and woman were watching tv and listening to XM. A majority of people will watch despite your statement.

B6jfk airplane 
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 17):
Well maybe but when I have flown B6 on JFK-IAD-JFK many business men were watching all the news channels and such and many business men and woman were watching tv and listening to XM. A majority of people will watch despite your statement.

I was talking about on the ground during ATC delays...not in flight. I still think most business people (myself and spouse included) will take most of the enroute time to work, or if there is leisure time, to pull out our laptops and watch a DVD movie that we brought along. We don't need to pay for inflight movies on the majors, and wouldn't pay for 'em on JBU. XM is great...look for live XM on several major carriers in the next 12-18 months. Easy technology and not as heavy to carry as the DirectTV equipment. UAL had satellite broadcast radio 10-12 years ago.

And by the way...I've flown JBU between JFK and Florida several times...perfectly OK flights...but absolutely nothing special. Dunkin Donuts coffee instead of Starbucks on the majors...CARBO snacks..same seats as everyone else's Airbus...not as much room as UAL's E+. Friendly F/A's. Worth saving $20 over another carrier? Not really. Out of control 20-something gate agents yelling at elderly pax? Entertaining but sad.

[Edited 2006-10-11 04:48:41]
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 8):
It may be a lose/lose for B6, but for consumers this is a win win. No person on this board should be upset if B6 were to start. This would jack up frequency and lower fares. I hope B6 does well, but even if they don't, as a consumer I win.

I really do not think it will lower fares much if at all. WN flying to MDW has already lowered the fares for Chicago. The only routes it is going to lower is those into NYC since that is a bit of a gap for WN (not counting PHL).
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 11):
jetBlue is flourishing on JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT.

Yes we all know how well MCO-BUR was..

Did I mention MCO-BUR? No, it was one dropped route. JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT is doing fantastic for jetBlue.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
AA added an additional LAX-JFK with the 762



Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
AA added an additional SFO-JFK with the 762

AA also dropped LGB-JFK because of jetBlue. Just like Delta created Song...and it eventually failed, all because of jetBlue. AA also offered the "Fly 3, Get one Free" promo...the outragously good deal to try and lure loyal jetBlue customers back to the legacy AA who screwed them with high fares and crappy service which is always the punchline of a commedian's joke for years.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
US entered the JFK market into its already frequent NYC schedule to EWR, LGA, and coming soon HPN.

So??? Mr. Doug Parker didn't think jetBlue would last even this long is CLT...they are doing great in the mean time.

Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 16):
Only important to ADHD pre-teenagers raised on Sesame Street. Serious business people will be on their cellphones and broadband wireless laptop connections (Verizon and Sprint) doing business. Leisure adult travelers will take a few minutes of shut-eye after consuming 3 or more martinis in the concourse bar waiting out their delay. Kewl college kids will be going through their Ipod playlists.

hahahaha, so business people don't watch TV is what you're saying? ONLY teens with ADHD watch TV?????

May I make a suggestion? Take a quick trip over to www.adage.com and subscribe to the magazine. Advertising Age will show you that pretty much ALL DEMOGRAPHICS IN THIS COUNTRY watch TV regularly.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Flightopsguy (Reply 18):
Dunkin Donuts coffee instead of Starbucks on the majors...CARBO snacks..same seats as everyone else's Airbus...not as much room as UAL's E+. Friendly F/A's. Worth saving $20 over another carrier? Not really. Out of control 20-something gate agents yelling at elderly pax? Entertaining but sad.

Starbucks on the majors? Well, jetBlue is a major - a major is classified as an airline with over $1 billion in revenue annually. If you mean legacy airlines, you get generic coffee in coach on most. For your information, Dunkin Donuts has been voted BEST coffee in America year after year. Same seats? jetBlue's seats are leather...and the pitch/width is somewhat greater than other airlines. UA's E+ is nice...same coach seat, more legroom...but not nearly everyone gets those seats.

Out-of-control gate agents?? I've never seen that...JFK is a madhouse but it's NYC. I have seen much worse at other airlines.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):
May I make a suggestion? Take a quick trip over to www.adage.com and subscribe to the magazine. Advertising Age will show you that pretty much ALL DEMOGRAPHICS IN THIS COUNTRY watch TV regularly.

Of course everyone watches TV regularly. But most serious business people do BUSINESS during BUSINESS hours when their home offices are open and clients are at their desks. I would assume that at 7PM local everyone is watching NFL football or NBA basketball. I've traveled with the CEO of a Fortune 500 company and while he always looks at the sports pages of the NY Times or Chicago Tribune first, 75% of the time on the airplane is about doing business...getting ready for the meeting on the other end, etc.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
flightopsguy
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 21):
nd the pitch/width is somewhat greater than other airlines

Differences in pitch, for sure..but the width of a 320 seat in coach is the same pretty much on all US carriers. About 1/2-1 inch wider than a Boeing seat.

UAL serves Starbucks...I think DL does also.

Out of control gate agents in Florida stations being totally non-customer focused to all the old folks traveling...seen this several times on JBU...sad.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):
JFK-LGB/BUR/ONT is doing fantastic for jetBlue.

Burbank reduced frequency to JFK

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):
AA also offered the "Fly 3, Get one Free" promo the outragously good deal to try and lure loyal jetBlue customers back to the legacy AA who screwed them with high fares and crappy service which is always the punchline of a commedian's joke for years.

The Fly 3 get one Free was for Dallas Love Field, and was created when Southwest Airlines commenced Dallas Love Field to Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans. In addition it also included service to Austin, San Antonio, and Houston.

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):
Just like Delta created Song...and it eventually failed, all because of jetBlue.

Wow, now I know what people say when they joke about the "blue juice" drinkers. Bloody mate, Jonestown in the form of an airline.. Are you all that brainwashed? You are actually saying that Song failed solely due to Jet Blue? The lack of understanding on your behalf is amazing. Let alone the one sided Jet Blue spin on what Jet Blue "blue juice" drinkers think is reality.

 crazy 
I Still Call Australia Home
 
Wsan581
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
AA added an additional LAX-JFK with the 762

Your talking about LAX, what happened to LGB/JFK?

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
AA added an additional SFO-JFK with the 762

Again what happened to OAK/JFK?

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
US entered the JFK market into its already frequent NYC schedule to EWR, LGA, and coming soon HPN.

Ahhh...

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 14):
When B6 entered CLT. US added service to JFK, B6 still sees high load to CLT.

I know US has responded by adding service...but B6 continues to have a high load factor on this route.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 25):
Again what happened to OAK/JFK?

It was dropped in favor of SFO...

You know SFO, the airport B6 didnt want to fly into. The UA/AA Trans-Con stronghold!  wink 

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 25):
Your talking about LAX, what happened to LGB/JFK?

It was dropped in favor of LAX...

You know LAX, the airport B6 didnt want to fly into.. The UA/AA Trans-Con stronghold! wink 
I Still Call Australia Home
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 24):
Burbank reduced frequency to JFK

For the slower fall season...as on all routes. JetBlue's BUR loads were well above 90% all summer to JFK.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 24):
The Fly 3 get one Free was for Dallas Love Field, and was created when Southwest Airlines commenced Dallas Love Field to Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans. In addition it also included service to Austin, San Antonio, and Houston.

I wasn't even aware of the promo you're talking about, but still a response to a LCC. I was talking about the Fly 3 get one free to anywhere in the world...a few years ago...I believe DL and UA also matched that offer. It was only on NYC-Florida and NYC-California...gee, I wonder why. Competing routes with jetBlue maybe???

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 24):
Are you all that brainwashed? You are actually saying that Song failed solely due to Jet Blue? The lack of understanding on your behalf is amazing. Let alone the one sided Jet Blue spin on what Jet Blue "blue juice" drinkers think is reality.

You're the brainwashed one here. You won't realize the facts and admit jetBlue's enormous success to date. Forget the failure of Song - look at the ever-so-short EXISTANCE of Song. Why do you think Song was created? It was created BECAUSE of jetBlue. Song did not last because the cost structure was almost identical to its mainline parent, DL. They couldn't sustain fares often lower than jetBlue with such higher costs...especially on the 757. Song was a joke from day one. I give DL some credit for trying - however Song was not very well planned. And please don't tell me it was an "experiment." It was an airline-within-airline failure to add to the long list of previous ones.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:58 pm

If Independence Air was able to enter the market with something like 16 flights a day at the beginning, i'm sure there is a way for B6 to enter the market.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Wsan581
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 26):
It was dropped in favor of LAX...

Yea..because AA could not make money on that route! It was a smart move by AA. Does that mean AA failed? No, but LGB/JFK just did not work out for them. Every airline adds and drops service.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 26):
It was dropped in favor of SFO

Wouldn't UA want to protect there stronghold?

My point is no matter where B6 chooses to fly they will always see competition. jetBluefor the most part has done well. Will B6 do well at ORD? I think so. Will AA/UA respond if B6 gets approval for ORD? YES!! jetBlue is aware of this, and they feel they will be able to hold there own.

I think jetBlue will be successful in ORD. First the LGB market will be solely theres. When B6 launched LGB - JFK alot of people thought this would not work, especially with AA/UA offering F and J class service. What was the outcome alot of passengers prefer to drive to LGB and fly B6.

The JFK market will not be as easy, what will help is that it is there hub city and they can depend on connecting pax out of BUF, SYR, ROC, BTV, PWM, etc.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
AIR757200
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2000 8:30 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:08 pm

I don't know why people are so passionate about arguing about who succeeded on a route, blah, blah... if B6 wants to play on the ORD-NYC route, so be it.. AA only has 21 flights/day to NYC(19)/JFK(2).. what about UA?
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 2:46 am

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:12 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 29):
Will AA/UA respond if B6 gets approval for ORD? YES!! jetBlue is aware of this, and they feel they will be able to hold there own.

Someone who makes sense!!! Most jetBlue-bashers on here must really truly believe that jetBlue management consists of a group of oblivious, idiotic people with no experience. The "Dream Team" at jetBlue - headed by David and Dave - know just what they're doing. They have built an incredible brand with a strong following...all this despite several obstacles. Every thread on this forum about jetBlue somehow turns into an arguement brought about by a jetBlue basher. Why? Because, no matter how much they can't stand this airline - they just can't get enough of trying to argue their pointless cases. Go jetBlue!
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
Wsan581
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 31):
Someone who makes sense!!! Most jetBlue-bashers on here must really truly believe that jetBlue management consists of a group of oblivious, idiotic people with no experience. The "Dream Team" at jetBlue - headed by David and Dave - know just what they're doing. They have built an incredible brand with a strong following...all this despite several obstacles. Every thread on this forum about jetBlue somehow turns into an arguement brought about by a jetBlue basher. Why? Because, no matter how much they can't stand this airline - they just can't get enough of trying to argue their pointless cases. Go jetBlue!

 checkmark  Thank You. Does anyone honestly think B6 would enter ORD too lose money? Or enter any market for that matter.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
n844aa
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 32):
Thank You. Does anyone honestly think B6 would enter ORD too lose money? Or enter any market for that matter.

What? Of course they're not entering the market to lose money. But that's no guarantee that they can make it work, particularly in a citypair as ridiculously well-served as New York and Chicago.

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 31):
Most jetBlue-bashers on here must really truly believe that jetBlue management consists of a group of oblivious, idiotic people with no experience. The "Dream Team" at jetBlue - headed by David and Dave - know just what they're doing.

I don't think anyone thinks that -- in fact, I haven't seen anyone on the board criticize B6's management as oblivious, idiotic, or inexperienced. Speaking from my own perspective, by far the most irritating thing about B6 are some of the raspberry Kool-Aid drinkers. Well, that, and some of the ad campaigns.

Look, every single major airline in this country has some smart, experienced folks working in management. But only one of them has been consistently profitable over any sort of meaningful timeline. Smart and experienced management is necessary, but hardly sufficient, for success in this industry. Just because B6 has it doesn't necessarily mean this particular route is going to work. I think it's worth keeping that in mind.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
Wsan581
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 33):
But that's no guarantee that they can make it work, particularly in a citypair as ridiculously well-served as New York and Chicago.

Agreed. Theres no guarantee with any market they will enter. However the fact that there is 30 plus flights a day means that there is great demand for this route.

In my opinion...there is enough demand on this route for B6 to be successful.
Blue Skies Ahead!!
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 15):
AA added an additional SFO-JFK with the 762

AA also dropped LGB-JFK because of jetBlue. Just like Delta created Song...and it eventually failed, all because of jetBlue. AA also offered the "Fly 3, Get one Free" promo...the outragously good deal to try and lure loyal jetBlue customers back to the legacy AA who screwed them with high fares and crappy service which is always the punchline of a commedian's joke for years.

AA still domintates JFK-SFO/JFK-LAX....

LGB wasn't big on AA's list and it was better to put valuable resources for to other use.....

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 20):
ALL DEMOGRAPHICS IN THIS COUNTRY

Please stop yelling....its rude....

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 28):
If Independence Air was able to enter the market with something like 16 flights a day at the beginning

...and look what happened to them..... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
n844aa
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 34):
However the fact that there is 30 plus flights a day means that there is great demand for this route.

In my opinion...there is enough demand on this route for B6 to be successful.

You may very well be right. My guess would be that between Chicago and New York, frequency is king, and that B6 won't be able to attract the yields necessary to turn this route into a resounding success. But I'm neither smart, experienced, nor an airline executive, so take that for what little you will.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
jetBlueNYFL
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting N844AA (Reply 33):
Look, every single major airline in this country has some smart, experienced folks working in management. But only one of them has been consistently profitable over any sort of meaningful timeline. Smart and experienced management is necessary, but hardly sufficient, for success in this industry. Just because B6 has it doesn't necessarily mean this particular route is going to work. I think it's worth keeping that in mind.

I agree with you on this statement 100%. I never said jetBlue is guaranteed success on JFK-ORD. I said I think they would do well. There's a big difference. Many thought jetBlue would fail in several markets - mainly JFK over LGA, LGB over LAX, FLL over MIA...etc. The point is that jetBlue found a way to make these and many more work - just like I think they can do with ORD. No airline is guaranteed success in any market - however, you'll never know if you don't try. Criticizing jetBlue for dropping a few routes is crazy - airlines adjust their route maps ALL the time - jetBlue is no different in this respect. I think JFK-ORD will do just great with jetBlue.
jetBlue...Bringing Humanity Back To Air Travel!
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
Quoting jetdeltamsy (Reply 28):
If Independence Air was able to enter the market with something like 16 flights a day at the beginning

...and look what happened to them.....

yea yea...i agree. i don't expect B6 to enter the market with more than 2 or 3 flights a day.

my point was that if Independence could secure 16 slots during a period of slot restrictions, B6 will be able to come up with a just a few to start service. although i must say i don't understand at all how the allocation of those slots is determined.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
ORDagent
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:21 pm

It's a done deal. The old IndyAir counter is open...but small. One little gate can keep B6 at least a toe hold.
 
supa7E7
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:23 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
i must say i don't understand at all how the allocation of those slots is determined.

Neither does the FAA. They are making it up as they go along.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
Cactus739
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 27):
JetBlue's BUR loads were well above 90% all summer to JFK.

While a 90% load factor is pretty and something to be proud of...its somewhat meaningless. Did they make money on that 90% load factor....that's what's important to look at....If they filled 90% of their seats but still lost money on the router... I'm not so sure congratulations would be in order. Since jetBlue has said publicly they'll barely eke out a profit in Q3 (you know, the quarter where everyone is travelling), one has to wonder if that route is making any money...or if its one that is bringing the cash in?

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
my point was that if Independence could secure 16 slots during a period of slot restrictions

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Indy had the arrivals slots from when they operated as UAX if I remember right.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
yea yea...i agree. i don't expect B6 to enter the market with more than 2 or 3 flights a day.

They asked for an apparently will receive 8 arrival slots. If they do go into ORD, I'd expect them to use all their slots. Like when they started BOS-JFK and JFK-IAD...didn't start small, went for it all.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
ckfred
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:09 pm

In the past, B6 has said that it wouldn't enter ORD, unless it could get 4 or 5 gates. The plan was to make ORD a small Midwestern hub.

So now, B6 plans to go in with 1 gate. I'm not sure that this is enough critical mass for B6 to be successful.

There are so many corporate customers that have contracts with AA or UA, that I can't see them throwing business to B6 for service to JFK or LGB. You know that whatever B6 offers, AA and UA will match, if not beat.

I'm not about to say that ORD will be B6's next ATL, but let's remember something. Not only is B6 fighting AA and UA. It's also fighting CO, flying ORD-EWR, and WN flying MDW-ISP, as well as MDW to LAX and SNA.

If WN starts to see traffic out of MDW shifting to B6 at ORD, I would bet that all hell will break loose. Not only will WN add seats, particularly around B6 departure times, but it will lower fares and probably launch an ad campaign about MDW and ISP being less congested than ORD and JFK.
 
jc2354
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:31 pm

Well, schedules, times, aircraft, IFE, cabin service, gourmet coffee, etc.

The real competition will be from the mileage/frequent flyer programs of American and United. If the fares are the same, mileage points will win every time.
If not now, then when?
 
skyyblue
Posts: 343
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 42):
In the past, B6 has said that it wouldn't enter ORD, unless it could get 4 or 5 gates. The plan was to make ORD a small Midwestern hub.

Was that in a press release we missed? ORD a small midwestern HUB? Never heard that one before.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 42):
So now, B6 plans to go in with 1 gate. I'm not sure that this is enough critical mass for B6 to be successful.

Critical mass?? ORD is going to be another spoke in our growing system. There is no way possible for us to have anything more than that anytime soon.

We're told that CHICAGO is the number one most requested destination by our existing customers. B6 is now trying to deliver to them. What is the big deal about all this ???? We're trying to enter NYC-CHI market, BIG DEAL!!!! Will it be the downfall of AA/UA at ORD? I don't think so.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 42):
Not only will WN add seats, particularly around B6 departure times, but it will lower fares and probably launch an ad campaign about MDW and ISP being less congested than ORD and JFK.

Thats a little dramatic for a handful of flights catering to a totally different market. MDW-ISP isn't ORD/MDW-LGA,JFK,EWR.
 
lowecur
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 32):
Thank You. Does anyone honestly think B6 would enter ORD too lose money? Or enter any market for that matter.

Jetblue is not starting ORD to make money. ORD or Chicago is a must on any network carriers list if they intend to maintain the business travelers loyalty throughout the system. If you keep giving the business traveler an opportunity to go back to the legacys while flying to Chicago, eventually you may lose their loyalty on other routes.

Longterm ORD could play a more conventional role as a hub for the 190, but this will depend on whether UAL can find a dance partner in a merger. 2007 will show us if that is going to happen. It not, STL or other perimeter options at Chicago are still viable.
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:03 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
my point was that if Independence could secure 16 slots during a period of slot restrictions, B6 will be able to come up with a just a few to start service. although i must say i don't understand at all how the allocation of those slots is determined.

I think the scenerio with Indy and B6 are a bit different though...(as mentioned above)

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 39):
It's a done deal. The old IndyAir counter is open...but small. One little gate can keep B6 at least a toe hold.

Will it be from Terminal-2?
"Up the Irons!"
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:01 pm

So AA and UA had to cut flights from ORD to help with delays, now B6 gets to come in?

Just another reason for me to not fly JetBlue. This is just rediculous. Why don't we let Southwest into ORD as well then?!

[Edited 2006-10-11 15:06:14]
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
FA4B6
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 29):
Yea..because AA could not make money on that route! It was a smart move by AA. Does that mean AA failed? No, but LGB/JFK just did not work out for them. Every airline adds and drops service.

Exactly. The same can be said about B6's ATL-LGB/OAK. Right?
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
User avatar
chrisnh
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RE: JetBlue At ORD...one Step Closer!

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:37 pm

This is interesting to watch, as the LCC heavyweights start entering big-city airports. Many people thought that Southwest would carbon-copy the 'Manchester/Providence' model of serving a big city via smaller, nearby airports. But we seem to be the only place where they did that, and instead they've gone into the lion's den at Denver and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh (among others). jetBlue, for their part, is going into the lion's den at Boston and (now) Chicago among their 'big-city' stations.

I am kind of surprised that the Manchester/Providence model didn't take, because it hasn't been emulated elsewhere since. One carrier (Southwest) seems anti-Boston while the other (jetBlue) seems to love the place.

Chris in NH