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1337Delta764
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Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:04 am

How come when LAX was designed, it was designed without an automated people mover train? While LAX is mostly an O&D airport rather than a hub, it is the third busiest airport in the US. LAX is the busiest airport in the U.S. not to have it. Has it ever been considered? It took a while for JFK to add one, but now it has proven to be successful. Could LAX follow?
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kaitak744
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:16 am

I know what you are talking about. When LAX was designed in the 1950s, it was supposedly one of the most advanced airports around. It is obviously not anymore. But, future planes certainly call for a people mover:

(that gray line thing around the terminal area is the people mover)

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lincoln
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:32 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Could LAX follow?

Since I don't even live in California anymore, and I've never flown to/through JFK for comparison, I'm hardly qualified to answer on several levels. But that's not going to stop me  Smile

I don't think LAX needs one-- for the most part airlines are confined to "their own" terminal or in a few cases adjacent terminals (DL 5-6, UA 6-7-8...neither of these is a particularly bad walk); the majority of connections, therefore, are within one terminal with a number of TBIT->Terminal connections (although, IIRC, most of the airlines who have a presence outside of TBIT run at least some international departures/arrivals out of their own terminal).

Plus there's already the interterminal bus which has never seemed terribly well utililized to me.

Could it be a cool addition? Probably. Are there more important things the money could be spent on? Almost certainly

Lincoln
(Next visit to LAX: T6 on Thanksgiving day.)
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juventus
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:33 am

A new $550 million project has just been approved for LAX. Maybe its coming, altought most of it is destined for the international terminal.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 2):
I don't think LAX needs one

No, you are quite wrong on that. LAX really needs one. Even the alliances (Star, oneworld, skyteam) are all over the place. There are plenty of connections at LAX.

The picture shown above is the most recent rendition. It shows doubling the gate capacity of TBIT and adding a new terminal.
 
flyingnanook
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:59 am

I don't see the need for one at LAX. All the terminals are pretty close together, for its size. I've only connected through LAX twice, and the furthest distance was from Terminal 3 to Terminal 6 or 7. It only took me 10 minutes from gate to check-in line to walk it and that's pretty much the longest distance anybody will have to walk at LAX. To contrast, if you're connecting from the end of Concourse D to the end of Concourse A at SEA (which I've done), you'll have to walk farther than that and the train doesn't connect them either.
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cch362
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 5):
the furthest distance was from Terminal 3 to Terminal 6 or 7.

Truthfully, the furthest distance is from T1-T7/8, because to take the "short cut" you have to go through an obstacle course featuring 2 parking structures and a busy service road in the middle. Added, there are no ramps nor signage leading you the way, so it's a real drag even if all you have is a rollaway.

When I fly home to LAX in early evenings, I usually encounter a lot of passengers transferring from T-7 to international flights in T-2 and Bradley. I presume the reverse is true during the late morning hours.
 
PER744
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:49 pm

I've connected through almost all combinations of terminals at LAX and never had too much of a problem with walking. That said, a SFO style APM couldn't hurt. Yes there are inter-terminal buses, but I know I'd be much more inclined to use an APM than a bus, and everyone knows the loop road in front of terminals could do with less diesel exhaust! I still remember my horror when I stepped out of the terminal at LAX the very first time and had to almost chew the air.

Also, as per SFO, a link to rental car/long term parking lots would also reduce the amount of buses, further reducing the diesel fumes.
 
SkyvanMan
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:52 pm

I don't think LAX needs one. It is not too hard to walk from any temrinal to any other terminal and some terminals are even connected airside (6 and 7 for example). LAX would only need a people mover if TBIT was in a different locaiton (say where 1 or 8 are) but since international flights are out of TBIT and that is why people usually have to change airlines it really is not needed, plus if you are flying United you can get to LAX from tons of places in the U.S. and then connect to an international flight on United without a terinal change (besides possible 6-7).
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rsmith6621a
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:13 am

LAX is a Garbage Dump.....I pissed in the same exact urinals in TERM 3 in the 70's.
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SRT75
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
How come when LAX was designed

Unfortunately, LAX was really never "designed." There has never really been a "unitary vision" for LAX. Terminals are upgraded at airlines' whims (with the exception of TBIT) and the airport is pretty much stuck with the circular terminal layout.

Due to several airline movements in the last 5 years, many alliances are now spread out across the airport. DL/AF used to share 5, but now are 5-2, and NW is 2. KL is also 2. CO is in 6. So SkyTeam resides in 2, 5, and TBIT. Fortunately for SkyTeam there are almost no LAX connections between DL-AF-NW-KL.

* Alliance has 6-7-8 (UA), which are all connected airside and streetside, 2 (AC, NZ, and China), 1 (US Air) and TBIT. There are a fair amount of *Alliance connections, and they are probably the most hurt by the lack of a people mover.

OneWorld has the best set-up with American (4) and TBIT right next to each other and easily walkable.

Some of the current redevelopment proposals envision larger terminals that could house several airlines currently in different terminals. This would likely be the best system from a connecting passengers' perspective.

The real problem with the current bus system is that there are 4 different LAX busses circling the airport (A (inter-terminal), B, C, G (and the odd E)). It is a nightmare for non-English speakers. So many times I have arrived at the remote parking lot (Lot B or C) with a bunch of confused foreing travellers who were simply trying to get from Terminal 7 to TBIT but got on the wrong bus.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:24 am

Codeshares and international connections have made LAX one of the most difficult airports to connect at.

Commuter-wise, United Express, American Eagle, and Horizon are the major players. That would be fine if it were a matter of connections to those airlines, but SAN-FRA for example might involve SAN-LAX on United Express, arriving at T8, and then having to make your way to LH in the TBIT. Not really a short walk, nor a really well-marked walk. The buses are there, but as stated, they're not well marked, and the chaos of ever moving/ever pulling over/ever merging traffic tests the patience of the most seasoned drivers!!

One of the logistics problems at LAX involves the frequent evacuation of terminals for a myriad of reasons. If the terminals were connected by a train (located beyond security), all of the terminals would need to be evacuated. At least this is the reasoning that has been stated.

Bottom line - people complain (and rightfully so), but nothing will ever be done. The $$$$ isn't there, people aren't willing to pay an extra $5 per ticket to pay for it, the logistics prohibit it, and knowing SoCal, NIMBY's would claim that a MAGLEV train pollutes the environment, creates noise, will violate the agreement to limit passenger numbers, and damages the health of children living nearby..."won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?"
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AADC10
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RE: Why No Automated People Mover Train At LAX?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 10):
Unfortunately, LAX was really never "designed." There has never really been a "unitary vision" for LAX.

The pre-1984 LAX did have a "unitary vision" similar to JFK's "Terminal City," both of which were designed back when connecting flights were less common and passenger volumes were far lower. All of the terminals and airsides were of mostly uniform appearance and primarily designed to serve O&D passengers. The 1984 and later renovations produced an irregular mismatched set of terminals and the various mergers, liquidations and alliances have left the airlines spread out all over the place.

All of the master plans, except "no change" include a people mover and most expect it to also be connected to the light rail station. Unfortunately, any major improvement other than the runway and taxiway reconfiguration have been put on hold indefinitely.