777way
Topic Author
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:54 am

Air China are planning to start twice weekly service Beijing-Madrid-Sao Paulo with a 767-300ER around mid December, any one know of this?
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
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Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:19 am

The sad thing is that this route doesnt have the legs to stand on. Air China, has a very low level of service, lower than Alitalia and Olympic if one remembers correctly. In addition Air China, is going to fight with Iberia on MAD-GRU? That is suicide. This route wont last long!
I Still Call Australia Home
 
RAFVC10
Posts: 1344
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:48 pm

Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:28 am

First notice that I have, 777way.

Maybe will be a mistake. See the code-share flights with LH. The CA flights are always empty meanwhile the LH flights are full.

CA offers a net rate from Spain to China in Business rate from 1500.00 Euros (one way and return). LH offers this rate from 3200.00 Euros.

Will be a great idea to code-share its flights with UX that is flying with 330 twice a week and now that the spanish airline will start flights to GIG.

Mmmmmhhhh. No way to this plan.

Regards,

Gerard
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
wunderk
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:38 am

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:44 am

This reminds me of Air China briefly tried Hong Kong-London in the late 1990s. Competing against Cathay Pacific, British Airways and Virgin. What was Air China thinking?
 
kesflyer
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:00 am

Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

Apparently politicians from China and Greece have been trying to negotiate such a flight.

Let us wait and see !
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 4):
Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

Apparently politicians from China and Greece have been trying to negotiate such a flight.

The other rumour was OA commencing ATH-HKG. Is this still on the cards??
Given the CX/CA/KA grouping, I think CA is better off working within these, and perhaps codesharing on the OA metal over HKG.
 
cy319
Posts: 368
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Kesflyer (Reply 4):
Rumour I have heard here and there is a new flight to ATH.

correct!

Greece and China signed a bilateral not longtime ago. this agreement concerns the air link of ATH with PEK and HKG.
OA is the designated carrier for the ATH-HKG route while CA is the one for the ATH-PEK route.
in fact, OA will launce the ATH-HKG route in late October: 3 times a week with 343s. OA has further code-sharing agreements with KA for the Chinese destinations and with CX for other Far Eastern cities.
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting 777way (Thread starter):
Air China are planning to start twice weekly service Beijing-Madrid-Sao Paulo with a 767-300ER around mid December, any one know of this?

No request has been made to ANAC yet and no one announcement on Brazil. Considering the bilateral, it's a possible flight. But in the past they flew Beijing-Frankfurt / Frankfurt-Sao Paulo or Frankfurt-GIG using RG flights.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PEK18R36L
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Wunderk (Reply 3):
This reminds me of Air China briefly tried Hong Kong-London in the late 1990s. Competing against Cathay Pacific, British Airways and Virgin. What was Air China thinking?

 checkmark 

As the national carrier of a nation focused on its own face and global influence, Air China frequently becomes a tool of politics.

The rationale behind the HKG-LHR flight was, I understand, a matter of face, a stake in the ground. It was a way of saying "hey, look, this (Hong Kong) is OURS now, and so our national carrier can fly from Hong Kong to anyplace." If you will recall, this was also a period of time where CA became quite deeply vested in HKG, and thought it would be interesting to see if they could build a niche in that already crowded route - possibly with lower fares than CX, BA, and VS. Once that niche failed to materialize, the gentlemen running CA could go to the Mandarins, hat in hand, and say "sirs, we are sorry, but that route appears to be too competitive, and we really need the planes elsewhere." The state leadership will assent to a record of losses, but they'll never believe a study in advance.

The Madrid and Sao Paulo routes, if true, are likely driven significantly by political pressure from the MFA. There is a big push from a foreign policy standpoint to strengthen ties with Russia, India, and Brazil, and a Sao Paulo flight would play right into that. CA may also see an opportunity with Varig's apparent implosion, but I think international relations is the real pusher.

The Madrid routing of the flight mystifies me a bit, until you start talking with travel agents, who are saying that there is a growing demand among the newly prosperous Chinese for direct frequencies to countries on the north side of the Med so as to make trips of 4-7 days to those destinations more logistically viable. This would also make the ATH flight more understandable.

David
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
carnoc
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Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:15 pm

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:43 pm

Confirmed news...

Effective from December 10, 2006, Air China will fly between Beijing and Sao Paulo via Madrid twice a week with the new services to be operated by a Boeing 767 aircraft.

Full schedule details available at http://en.carnoc.com/list/1/1197.html

Regards.
 
SKY1
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:02 pm

Nice news, specially if CA can keep this new route for years.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:23 pm

Well i was searching for something new to add to my list of Airlines on that route.I guess my next trip to South America will be onboard CA B767 to GRU than Gol to EZE
10x for the news
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
B2443
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 1):
The sad thing is that this route doesnt have the legs to stand on. Air China, has a very low level of service, lower than Alitalia and Olympic if one remembers correctly. In addition Air China, is going to fight with Iberia on MAD-GRU? That is suicide. This route wont last long!

Well, you'll have to take the Chinese tourist into account. So what if CA couldn't pick up pax at MAD (not even sure if they are allowed to)? There will be plenty of Chinese who are interested to go sight-seeing in Rio or to do business in Sao Paulo. The Chinese airlines are profittable on their China-European routes. Would you think the profits came from pax originated in Europe? Think not.
 
Avianca
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RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 10):
Nice news, specially if CA can keep this new route for years

I am sure, I even see the flights in sooner future going daily

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
carnoc
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:15 pm

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:47 pm

The aircraft type will be Boeing 767-300ERs for those interested...

Regards.
 
Humberside
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting B2443 (Reply 12):
So what if CA couldn't pick up pax at MAD (not even sure if they are allowed to)? There will be plenty of Chinese who are interested to go sight-seeing in Rio or to do business in Sao Paulo.

Does anyone know if CA have 5th freedom between MAD and GRU?
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 15):
Does anyone know if CA have 5th freedom between MAD and GRU?

As per the bilateral Brazil-China, yes they will receive 5th freedom rights. They can also improve this to 14 weekly flights.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: Air China To Madrid And Sao Paulo?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
I am sure, I even see the flights in sooner future going daily

I like your optimism, but I'm not pretty sure to say such thing. Well, we wait and see. If LipeGIG is right with the 5th freedom rights (Spain has something to say about it, anyway) It could help.
Time flies! Enjoy life!