MEACEDAR
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MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:14 am

I think that some airlines need to add some more international routes coming out of MCO. In particular, European routes. MCO only has 5 European destinations. They are:

MCO-LGW VS/BA
MCO-AMS MPH
MCO-DUS LTU
MCO-FRA CONDOR
MCO-MAN VS

I might be missing one.

I would really like to see some:
MCO-CDG
MCO-GVA
MCO-FCO
MCO-MXP
MCO-ZRH

I know that it is to much to ask for, but at least MCO-CDG.
What do you think?
 
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ERJ170
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:17 am

Are any of these routes covered via SFB, TPA, or PIE? If so, then they wouldn't necessary need to fly to MCO. And I assume flying into TPA/PIE are just as good since they are only about an hour or less away from Orlando, if I recall correctly?
Aiming High and going far..
 
QFSYD744
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Thread starter):
I would really like to see some:
MCO-CDG
MCO-GVA
MCO-FCO
MCO-MXP
MCO-ZRH

MCO-MXP was flown with Eurofly in 2005 using the A330

MCO-ZRH was flown by Bal Air a number of years back with the 763
I Still Call Australia Home
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Are any of these routes covered via SFB, TPA, or PIE? If so, then they wouldn't necessary need to fly to MCO. And I assume flying into TPA/PIE are just as good since they are only about an hour or less away from Orlando, if I recall correctly?

No, the only airport that offers some of these international destinations is Miami, which is around 4 hours away from each airport.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-MXP was flown with Eurofly in 2005 using the A330

MCO-ZRH was flown by Bal Air a number of years back with the 763


What about now? Who cares about then?
 
QFSYD744
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 4):
What about now? Who cares about then?

You are losing LTU!

Nothing on the horizon, to low yield..
I Still Call Australia Home
 
FLVILLA
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:28 am

The problem with MCO and Int'l expansion is that MCO provides too small a market for business class passengers. Which is the main driving factor in an airlines willingness to start a route. MCO is too heavily leisure orientated which will probably fill up the rear of the plane but the front will sit empty or sold at very cheap prices in comparison to other J-class prices to other routes such as MIA.
I hope in life i can work to live, not live to work
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
You are losing LTU!

Really? I didn't know that. Is anyone coming in their place?
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting FLVILLA (Reply 6):
The problem with MCO and Int'l expansion is that MCO provides too small a market for business class passengers. Which is the main driving factor in an airlines willingness to start a route. MCO is too heavily leisure orientated which will probably fill up the rear of the plane but the front will sit empty or sold at very cheap prices in comparison to other J-class prices to other routes such as MIA.

Then why is BA and VS and some of the other airlines I metioned flying to MCO? A business class seat on VS to LGW is the same cost than leaving from MIA.
 
legacy135
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-ZRH was flown by Bal Air a number of years back with the 763

That is correct. I used to work for Balair from 1987 to 1992. MCO was introduced in April 1991 once weekly on the route ZRH - BGR - MCO v.v. flown with the only A310-322 HB-IPK we used to have those days.

Crew change was in BGR and I was with the first crew, doing the BGR - MCO - BGR turnaround. We all had a Mickey Mouse pin on the uniform and exactly this pin is still hanging here in front of me at the black board, as I am typing this message  Wink .......woaohhhhhhhhh how fast time goes by!

Those flights eventually became nonstop ZRH - MCO on spring 1992, when the newer A310-325's (HB-IPL, IPM & IPN) replaced our DC-10 (HB-IHK) and the older Airbus (HB-IPK). So we could stay then at the Penta Hotel (which became later on a Renaissance) and visit all the parks. I also remember a ZRH - MIA - MCO - ZRH routing, but as I left then the company and wasn't an active crewmember then on those, I also lost the memories how they flew later on. The flights with the 763 were much after my time with the airline. I think, also Edelweiss Air (EDW) did it sometimes ago with their A330.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
SQno1
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:36 am

There will be VS MCO-GLA on behalf of Virgin Holidays next summer too! (I believe it is once weekly). Not forgetting 5x weekly AM flight between MCO and MEX.

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 10):
There will be VS MCO-GLA on behalf of Virgin Holidays next summer too! (I believe it is once weekly)

Do you know what type of aircraft they will operate during this route.
 
akjetBlue
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-MXP was flown with Eurofly in 2005 using the A330

Actually this was announced but never started. Instead I think the aircraft was used on service to and from MIA. Sad, we were very excited but alas can't win 'em all.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 7):
Really? I didn't know that. Is anyone coming in their place?

Nope. So far we've lost Aer Lingus and LTU this year... there was a time when there were a variety of intl carriers serving MCO... those days are gone for a while...
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
Dazed767
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-MXP was flown with Eurofly in 2005 using the A330

Hmmm, don't recall that one. Are you sure?

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):

You are losing LTU!

There is an active thread going on right now about that, nobody coming in their place.

There are plenty of other Intl flights;
AeroMexico
Air Canada
Air Jamaica
Air Transat
Bahamasair
Cayman
Copa
Mexicana
SkyService
and Westjet
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting Akjetblue (Reply 12):
So far we've lost Aer Lingus and LTU this year...

Akjetblue,

What route do you think will help MCO the best?
 
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Richard28
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 8):
Then why is BA and VS and some of the other airlines I metioned flying to MCO? A business class seat on VS to LGW is the same cost than leaving from MIA.

It doesnt.

The lowest price MCO business class fares comes in about £900 cheaper than to MIA on VS.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:49 am

MCO-Europe might be a good candidate for DL's all coach (really domestic F configured) 764s even if operated only 3-4 days per week and seasonally. Don't rule it out.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Dazed767 (Reply 13):
There are plenty of other Intl flights;
AeroMexico
Air Canada
Air Jamaica
Air Transat
Bahamasair
Cayman
Copa
Mexicana
SkyService
and Westjet

I know, but most of them fly within North America. I would really like to see some European and maybe some Asia routes.

In addition some of the airlines fly to the same place, personally I think that's stupid. For example,

Calgary, Alberta- Air Canada and WestJet
Halifax, Nova Scotia- CanJet
Hamilton, Ontario- WestJet
Montreal, Quebec- Air Canada, WestJet, Air Transat
Ottawa, Ontario- Air Canada, Can Jet, WestJet
Toronto, Ontario- Air Canada, Sky Service, WestJet, Air Transat
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
MCO-Europe might be a good candidate for DL's all coach (really domestic F configured) 764s even if operated only 3-4 days per week and seasonally. Don't rule it out.

To where?
 
QFSYD744
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 14):
What route do you think will help MCO the best?

American Airlines tried GRU-MCO
TransBrasil tried MCO
Varig tried MCO

Perhaps with all of the new routes to and from South America, Brasil to Orlando can be reviewed again!
I Still Call Australia Home
 
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Richard28
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 11):
Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 10):
There will be VS MCO-GLA on behalf of Virgin Holidays next summer too! (I believe it is once weekly)

Do you know what type of aircraft they will operate during this route.

23-Jun to 14-Jul VS71 B744 6 (sat) dep 15:45 arr 19:35 Non-Stop 8:50 hrs

07-Jul to 14-Jul VS72 B744 6 (sat) dep 22:35 arr 11:30+1 Non-Stop 7:55 hrs.
 
miamix707
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-MXP was flown with Eurofly in 2005 using the A330

Never, in florida they only flew to MIA for two summer seasons, 2004 and 2005.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 2):
MCO-ZRH was flown by Bal Air a number of years back with the 763

More than 10 years ago, and never with a 767.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 5):
Nothing on the horizon, to low yield..



Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 8):
Quoting FLVILLA (Reply 6):
The problem with MCO and Int'l expansion is that MCO provides too small a market for business class passengers. Which is the main driving factor in an airlines willingness to start a route. MCO is too heavily leisure orientated which will probably fill up the rear of the plane but the front will sit empty or sold at very cheap prices in comparison to other J-class prices to other routes such as MIA.

Then why is BA and VS and some of the other airlines I metioned flying to MCO? A business class seat on VS to LGW is the same cost than leaving from MIA.

That is what some people not familiar with Orlando like to say. Since MCO used to have plenty of international flights, (some even from national carriers such as Delta) the Orlando area has grown much more and this has become a pretty cosmopolitan city. The diversity of people's here is more diverse than even Miami's. There are bigger businesses that have moved to the area and economically it continues to grow. As far as cargo it's not anywhere as big a market as Miami yes, but besides for the heavyweight UK airlines, the Orlando area is very underserved from Europe and also from South America.

Something tells me the MCO authority hasn't been doing too good of a job luring international carriers. I don't know if it's inept officials or the landing fees are much higher now or what, but with the extra runway (that the airport doesn't really need) and yet another planned terminal (which now seems to be on hold) they might be making the airport much more expensive to operate from than it used to be. All the leisure airlines have moved to SFB, even long-time resident Icelandair has switched.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 9):
I think, also Edelweiss Air (EDW) did it sometimes ago with their A330.

To Orlando Sanford, SFB for only about a year. A flight that went ZHR-SFB-CUN-MIA-ZHR.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:28 am

What about some Asian destinations like HKG OR NRT?

I only ask this because about a month ago I flew from MCO to LAX. The passengers on flight were all going to NRT from LAX. On the way back I experinced the same thing, all the passengers were going to MCO via LAX from NRT. Why can't we have a non-stop flight between MCO-NRT-MCO, Delta is able to fly from/to ATL from/to NRT. ATL is only about 1 hour and 15 minutes from MCO by air.

MCO really needs to offer more int'l destinations.
 
MAH4546
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 8):

Then why is BA and VS and some of the other airlines I metioned flying to MCO? A business class seat on VS to LGW is the same cost than leaving from MIA.

From MIA, the planes are in a lower density configuration and, in BA's case, offer First Class, which BA does not offer to Orlando (nor Tampa).

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 21):
The diversity of people's here is more diverse than even miami's.

A simple look at immigration figures from the US census shows that is simply not true. The only community greater than 1,000 that is bigger in Orlando than in Miami is the Vietnamesse community.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...results=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en

The above list is only of native-born, so it doesn't give a real sense of the size of the communities (i.e. a Chinese boy born to Chinese parents in the United States is not counted), but it gives a good idea of the proportions.
a.
 
panam330
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 22):
What about some Asian destinations like HKG OR NRT?

Not happening. There is simply not enough O&D to support a flight to Asia.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 22):
Why can't we have a non-stop flight between MCO-NRT-MCO, Delta is able to fly from/to ATL from/to NRT. ATL is only about 1 hour and 15 minutes from MCO by air.

What does distance have to do with it? ATL-NRT is flown by Delta, yes. Look at the feed that is provided for that flight- it's something that MCO just doesn't have. Believe me, I'd love to see a Delta 777 land from NRT, but it's just not going to happen in this decade.


Back to the topic at hand, don't forget that there are more international destinations than just Europe.
-JY flies MCO-MBJ
-AM flies MCO-MEX
-DL will soon restart MCO-MEX as well.
-CM flies MCO-PTY
-Martinair flies MCO-SJO

While the market could certainly support a flight or two more, at this point in time, MCO is doing just fine.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 24):
-JY flies MCO-MBJ
-AM flies MCO-MEX
-DL will soon restart MCO-MEX as well.
-CM flies MCO-PTY
-Martinair flies MCO-SJO

Yes, but usually none of them are even 60 percent full half the time. Martinair is usually full...but AM is usually never. I heard the for every MCO-MEX flight AM flies they lose thousands of dollars. Most of them are shut down in a couple of months. Martinair is going to stop flying MCO-SJO soon. I think they said end December, early January. My friend is a pilot for Martinair and he said that there is 95% chance that they are going to do this.

The MCO-PTY route by CM is just a "test". They want to see if they will make money or not.
 
cslusarc
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:10 am

Are there any currently operated international passenger routes from MCO operated by US-flagged scheduled carriers
--cslusarc from YWG
 
Rookinla
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 25):
The MCO-PTY route by CM is just a "test". They want to see if they will make money or not.

Huh? What is your source for this bit of info? They have increased frequency on this route twice and are about to go daily. That hardly seems like a "test"...It sounds like at least a marginally proven route to me.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 18):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
MCO-Europe might be a good candidate for DL's all coach (really domestic F configured) 764s even if operated only 3-4 days per week and seasonally. Don't rule it out.

To where?

My guess would be the UK or France.
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 26):
Are there any currently operated international passenger routes from MCO operated by US-flagged scheduled carriers

Nope, they are only foreign airlines.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 28):
Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 18):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
MCO-Europe might be a good candidate for DL's all coach (really domestic F configured) 764s even if operated only 3-4 days per week and seasonally. Don't rule it out.

To where?

My guess would be the UK or France

They already ready fly to the UK. LGW and MAN
 
Rookinla
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 26):
Are there any currently operated international passenger routes from MCO operated by US-flagged scheduled carriers

US:BDA
DL Connection MCO-NAS
CO Connection MCO-FPO
American Eagle MCO-NAS (about to end..if not already)
DL MCO-MEX (coming)
In addition...DL,NK and FL all applied to serve MCO-CUN but all withdrew. DL claims that they planned to go mainline with a daily 738 year-round.

You missed a few discontinued routes from MCO so I'll try to name as many as I can...any additions or errors please feel free to chime in...

DL: LGW,FRA(old PA route),CDG,MEX(returning),NAS(mainline),FPO(Comair),NRT(Tag-on to LAX).
EA:MEX
BA:BDA(Intermediate LGW stop)
FI:KEF
TA:SJO (I believe this is right...as LACSA)
Aero Costa Rica: SJO
MX:CUN
RG:GRU
TR:GRU,BSB
AA:GRU/GIG
KL:AMS,MEX
Lauda: VIE
Balair:ZRH
EU:UIO
SU:SVO
SV:DHA/JED
 
2travel2know
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 25):
The MCO-PTY route by CM is just a "test". They want to see if they will make money or not.

A test that have been going on for years now! If daily, which I would think it'll happen soon, CM MCO route could be doing fine with an E190, even if there are days CM needs a B737-800.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
worldtraveler
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 29):
They already ready fly to the UK. LGW and MAN

the quote was regarding nonstop DL services from MCO....DL doesn't serve that market.
 
miamix707
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 22):
What about some Asian destinations like HKG OR NRT?



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
A simple look at immigration figures from the US census shows that is simply not true. The only community greater than 1,000 that is bigger in Orlando than in Miami is the Vietnamesse community.

You are forgetting PuertoRicans (while US citizens, have a different culture and consider themselves latinos or spanish or just Puertoricans). There are much more in Orlando than in all of s.florida.

I've lived ~7 years in each metro area and I can tell you Orlando in proportion to the overall population has more international diversity, although perhaps not in total number of foreign born residents like Miami. I won't give you the examples of the nationalities of all my acquantainces but if you live here and get around you'll see this is becoming a smaller version of New York. Miami, on the other hand mostly keeps attracting spanish-speaking settlers, a few from caribbean nations and that's mostly it.

The latin community in central florida proportionately has been growing faster than in s.florida. There's plenty of ads and billboards in spanish only, something unseen 5 years ago, as the overall Orlando latin community is in transition from the lower to the middle class, with a lower poverty level than s.florida's immigrant community. "white people" are starting to complain they have to learn another language lol. During the past 3 or so years many Miami residents have begun moving up to Orlando and vicinity due to the ridiculous house prices and lack of jobs in s.florida. Orlando house prices are beginning to even up with those of s.florida unfortunately.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 22):
MCO really needs to offer more int'l destinations.

 checkmark 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
The above list is only of native-born, so it doesn't give a real sense of the size of the communities (i.e. a Chinese boy born to Chinese parents in the United States is not counted), but it gives a good idea of the proportions.

your own sentence tells you why you can't base ethnic variety on statistics alone.

Venezuela and Colombia could use MCO service, as well as Brasil. But with the state of the airlines in those three countries, there's hasn't been much development of any new service.
 
QFSYD744
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 32):
the quote was regarding nonstop DL services from MCO....DL doesn't serve that market

WorldTraveler,

As usual you are adding more and more thought into the conversation. It is a pleasure to see someone who is so informed and thought provoking. While I must say at first that MCO-Europe on Delta is a no go. I was reminded of Delta Airlines service from Orlando to Europe in the mid 90's, if I am not correct. What you said does make sense. Think about it. If Delta Airlines takes 2 of the 767-300's off of Hawaii in place of 2 757-200's to Hawaii. The 2 767-300's that were flown in Hawaii could now be based at MCO. At current MCO is an impressive focus city for Delta Airlines. In turn Delta Airlines could operate the 2 767-300's on split schedules as follows~

767-300 #1

Mon - CDG to MCO to LGW
Tue - LGW to MCO to CDG
Wed - CDG to MCO to GRU
Thu - GRU to MCO to LGW
Fri - LGW to MCO to CDG
Sat - CDG to MCO to LGW
Sun - LGW to MCO to CDG

767-300 #2

Mon - GRU to MCO to AMS
Tue - AMS to MCO to GRU
Wed - GRU to MCO to CDG
Thu - CDG to MCO to AMS
Fri - AMS to MCO to GRU
Sat - GRU to MCO to CDG
Sun - CDG to MCO to GRU

This I am sure is a wildly inane guess. However, it would not take much for Delta Airlines to add the above routes. In addition it would further increase Delta Airlines marketplace and setting in the TATL and SouthAm stages.

Cheers!
I Still Call Australia Home
 
danimarroquin
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:57 am

AV , should make the MCO-BOG . the colombian community is getting big my friends  biting   biting 
 
MAH4546
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 33):
Miami, on the other hand mostly keeps attracting spanish-speaking settlers, a few from caribbean nations and that's mostly it.

I'm not doubting Orlando's diversity, but to say that "that's mostly it" with regards to the immigrants Miami is saying is ignoring the truth.

Orlando has no European communities that can compare to Miami's large Russian and Italian communities, for example.

I'm not doubing Orlando's diversity, nor am I doubting that a large part of Miami's international community comes from other countries in Americas. What I am saying is that, despite this, Miami still has European, African, and (to a lesser extent) Asian communities that significantly outnumber and are significantly more diverse than Orlando's. You'll obviously notice it more in Orlando because Orlando is a much smaller place. As someone who lives in central Miami, I am very familiar with the Italian, Hatain, Brazilian, and Russian communities, but I hardly notice the Jamaican or Chinese communities, which are concentrated far north in Broward.

None the less, this is for another thread, another time, so I'll leave it at that.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 33):
Venezuela and Colombia could use MCO service, as well as Brasil. But with the state of the airlines in those three countries, there's hasn't been much development of any new service.

Venezuela definitley, especially since Venezuelans have more disposable income than most Latin Americans and tend to travel more abroad. Colombia, more of a long shot. The problem with Orlando-Brazil is simply the yield. There is no reason to waste flying a plane to Orlando when you can fly it to Miami and garner significantly higher revenue, despite the market being crowded. I don't think there is doubt that filling a plane between Orlando and Brazil is hard - it would fill up daily, with ease. Avianca and TAM have been expanding and are in pretty good to great shape right now, I doubt their condition is stopping them from flying to Orlando.
a.
 
Rookinla
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RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:34 am

I had a long, fairly well thought out post ready to go and the internet went down...ugh! It was basically regarding the prospects of MCO receiving additional Transatlantic service. The best bet right now would be for LH to take DE's FRA service over, which probably will not happen for a few more years until yields are high enough. The LF on MCO-FRA for DE is pretty good, but at low fares. LH has been considering it and I know that MCO and LAS are "on the table". EI could also make a return at some point, this time as a scheduled LCC of sorts. Another slightly far-flung possibility could be AF to CDG. The only problem could be the minimal connecting traffic through MCO. It is just so O&D driven and I don't know if the numbers are there to support that flight. The list of carriers that have come and gone from MCO is staggering...From the list above I forgot a few discontinued routes:

AR MCO-EZE
LN MCO-SCL
Air Aruba/Aeropostal/Viasa-MCO-CCS
LY MCO-TLV
Aviateca MCO-GUA

And BTW, about that CM "test"...their LF is over 82% on that flight. And AM's LF is quite a bit higher than you are stating. It was over 80% for all of Q4 2005... The only foreign carriers that have a LF that low at MCO are JM and EI (72% when they left)...
 
QFSYD744
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:11 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 37):
From the list above I forgot a few discontinued routes:

AR MCO-EZE
LN MCO-SCL
Air Aruba/Aeropostal/Viasa-MCO-CCS
LY MCO-TLV
Aviateca MCO-GUA

You forgot... SV

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 37):
LH has been considering it and I know that MCO and LAS are "on the table".

DE serves Las Vegas 2 x weekly with the 767-300

Between LAS and MCO bets are on for LAS. German O/D is very good to Las Vegas, as it is an excellent springboard to so many attractions. In addition LH could benefit greatly from the Star Alliance feed at LAS ala HP/US.
I Still Call Australia Home
 
Rookinla
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 38):
You forgot... SV

No I didn't...See...

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 30):
SV:DHA/JED

See...I told you!  Smile

While I'm posting, I notice that DL Flight 22 runs daily MCO-ATL-CDG with a 763. Does anybody here (MAH4546 maybe) know how many passengers board this flight at MCO and stay until until CDG...on average...? That could be a telling stat.

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 38):
DE serves Las Vegas 2 x weekly with the 767-300

MCO too..Monday/Friday...763

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 38):
German O/D is very good to Las Vegas, as it is an excellent springboard to so many attractions. In addition LH could benefit greatly from the Star Alliance feed at LAS ala HP/US.

I would have to agree with you on that point. I have always thought that LAS would be the better choice for LH...but MCO may also be viable. If not now...in time.
 
MEACEDAR
Topic Author
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:57 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 39):
While I'm posting, I notice that DL Flight 22 runs daily MCO-ATL-CDG with a 763. Does anybody here (MAH4546 maybe) know how many passengers board this flight at MCO and stay until until CDG...on average...? That could be a telling stat.

First the 763 is just from MCO-ATL.
ATL-CDG runs with a 772

They use the same flight #.

I went on DL 22 on September 10, 2006 but my flight from MCO-ATL was different.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 40):
First the 763 is just from MCO-ATL.

You're right...my apologies.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 40):
ATL-CDG runs with a 772

Not for much longer. November is showing as a 767...no series listed. But I would still be interested to know what the daily O&D is on MCO-CDG. Maybe enough for 3 to 4X per week to start?
 
MCOGVADCA
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:05 pm

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting MEACEDAR (Thread starter):
I would really like to see some:
MCO-GVA

I wish! that would make my life far more convenient, but the only people i know that would take that route would be my family  Sad not exactly sustainable..

I do think CDG could work, there is sizeable Orlando Paris traffic as more and more french are finding the idea of an orlando disney vacation more palatable (euro disney sucks monekyballs and is terribly cold most of the year, so lets not even bring up the proximity argument), Orlando's upper middle class is growing substantially and the idea of european travel resonates well (also, such a route could attract some tampa traffic who'd rather drive an hour than connect in ATL). Daily might be unwarranted but it could be worth a shot, especially on DL. They flew FRA for years, and only cut it because the entire hub was being eliminated. I took the flight dozens of times as a child to get to gva, and now as a child i knew nothing of load factors but i do remember not being able to stretch out over the center aisle seats/being stuck with my family on those middle 5 seats of the L10-11 because there were so many people on the flight!

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 24):
Not happening. There is simply not enough O&D to support a flight to Asia.

not necessarily, Orlando does has a thriving asian community, and more importantly, the japanese flock to orlando in droves (aka O and D, its just almost entirely on one end). It could fill up economy a couple of times a week, in particular during the asian new year holidays..however, the YIELD is not there because no one flies first. as someone previously mentioned, UA's early morning LAX and SFO flights are almost entirely asian connecting passengers. Even the baggage handlers at MCO have learned Ni hao ma!! ANA used to, I think it was a little before my time, had a tag-on flight to MCO

Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 19):
TransBrasil tried MCO

Transbrasil backed out of MCO as a result of the brazilian economic crisis. The Florida Mall used to be teeming with brazilian tourists seemingly every day of the year, then all of the sudden, mr cardoso oversaw a catastrophic economic collapse, and brazilian middle class disposable income suddenly became an oxymoron. I would argue that the brazilian economy has yet to FULLY recover (under lula they've made strides, but not to the point where middle class citizens will feel comfortable blowing a huge wad of cash on an orlando vacation that is clearly not a necessity). because, as has been stated ad nauseum, orlando is a low yield tourist destination on the whole, and until the brazilian economy has a few more years of stability, i think then you'll see the possibility of an MCO-brazil re-launch.
However, as was previously mentioned, an MCO-Venezuela, Colombia flight i think would have a large chance of success given Orlando's sizeable Colombian population and the Venezuelan's propensity to travel.
12 months: mdl heh rgn kmg nng sha gmp icn can pvg sfo mco lwc sin dps cdg gva
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:30 pm

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 35):
the colombian community is getting big my friends

It's been big for years. Orlando's colombian community is huge.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
Miami's large Russian and Italian communities

I don't know if I would call a community in a small place like Sunny Isles beach, "large". The reality is Russians are not seen anywhere else in s.florida. In Orlando there is actually a club or two that have Russian nights, I haven't heard of such thing in Miami.

I agree, that's topic for another thread, but it sort or relates. By the way, MCO itself had service from Aeroflot in the mid-90's.

As far as Brasil, Transbrasil didn't feel like they were "wasting a plane several times a week instead of sending a plane to MIA". They flew to MCO for many years until the airline ceased long-haul operations sometime in 2000 or 2001.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 36):
Avianca and TAM have been expanding and are in pretty good to great shape right now, I doubt their condition is stopping them from flying to Orlando.

How long did it take TAM to finally fly to JFK of all places.. when they had been serving MIA since 1998? Avianca is only about 1 or 2 years removed from a servere financial crisis and I'm not sure if they have enough planes. I woudln't be surprised to see Avianca at MCO in the near future or maybe AA or DL start a route down there.

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 37):
The list of carriers that have come and gone from MCO is staggering



Quoting QFSYD744 (Reply 38):
You forgot... SV

There's many airlines that have flown to MCO.. too many, and I have them all listed  Wink There was about 6 or so more European airlines besides those already mentioned.

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 39):
MCO too..Monday/Friday...763

It's more than 2x a week..

Quoting MCOGVADCA (Reply 42):
crisis. The Florida Mall used to be teeming with brazilian tourists seemingly every day of the year,

That was in the mid-90s (and not just in the Florida Mall, in any other mall practically). Now many of the Brazilians you see in Orlando, actually live here. The MIA-MCO flight UA used to have was often packed with Brazilians, and many were residents coming back to Orlando after arriving from s.america at Miami.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 43):
There was about 6 or so more European airlines besides those already mentioned.

Since we're talking about the history of MCO's International service, which ones were they? I purposely didn't list charters, just scheduled.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 43):
It's more than 2x a week..

As of November it's 2X/week on the days I listed. Source: Orlando International Airport's schedule reports on their website. It may seasonally be more but not for next month. I would expect this to increase by one frequency due to the imminent departure of LTU.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 43):
By the way, MCO itself had service from Aeroflot in the mid-90's.

Correct...as a tag-on to their MIA flight. It was quite a treat to see the IL-96 at MCO! But this fact was already mentioned in one of my previous posts in this thread.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 43):
I woudln't be surprised to see Avianca at MCO in the near future or maybe AA or DL start a route down there.

Agreed. AA is operating a daily flight MCO-BOG through MIA but you never know what South/Central American destination that might be each month as it changes. AV could probably make this work 3X week.
 
N701AA
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:08 pm

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:07 pm

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 17):
In addition some of the airlines fly to the same place, personally I think that's stupid.

A lot of the traffic into Florida destinations from Canada is driven by tour operators and travel agency consolidators. For example, Transat Vacations, which is owned by Air Transat, buys a lot of seats on Westjet, Skyservice, and Air Transat to move passengers to Florida. That's why you see various Canadian airlines serving the same markets. This is specially true during high season.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:19 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 44):
Since we're talking about the history of MCO's International service, which ones were they? I purposely didn't list charters, just scheduled.

Most of the remaining were charters, except for I think KLM and maybe Citybird and Trans European.

KLM
Spanair
Trans European
Air Europe
SkyJet (Excalibur)
Sobelair
Airtours
Air UK Leisure
Air Europa*
Monarch
Britannia
Citybird
Translift Airways*
Flying Colors
Air 2000


Just off the top of my head, I could be forgetting one or two.

* not sure if they were regular charters at some time or just oddball charters I saw.

Plus the other scheduled central and s.american airlines, including charters, some haven't been mentioned yet  Wink
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: MCO International Routes

Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:26 pm

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 43):
I don't know if I would call a community in a small place like Sunny Isles beach, "large". The reality is Russians are not seen anywhere else in s.florida. In Orlando there is actually a club or two that have Russian nights, I haven't heard of such thing in Miami.

That is just a ridiculous thing to suggest when South Florida has one of the larger Russian communities in America, a Russian community that is around 10x larger than Orlando's.

Just because you personally have not seen a "Russian night" in Miami doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I personally haven't seen one either, but I'm sure you can find them, especially with all the Russian (and Turkish) ran night spots that have popped up in Sunny Isles in the past few years.

And, among the many other "anywhere elses" you will find Russians in Miami are Miami Beach and Hallandale Beach.

[Edited 2006-10-12 09:29:37]
a.
 
Clipper136
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:07 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:01 am

I would like to point out that those census numbers are from 2000.

You amy say ....SO, it was just 6 years ago.....

But anyone how has visited Orlando.....I mean outside of the House of Mouse, Univeral Studios or Internatioanl Drive corridor, which is a very small when compaired to the Greater Orlando Area. Downtown, East and South Orlando are all booming with Business, industry and population growth.

The next Census will show that Orlado has over taken TPA as the 2nd largest MSA in Florida.

But back on topic.

The cost per passenger at MCO has progressively lowered over the past 4 years. The passenger terminal is near capacity and MCO's passenger numbers are continuing to grow at record pace.

The 4th runway (which was needed, to stay ahead of congestion that has bogged down other large airports) When one runway is closed for a short time, watch how the aircraft start to line up for take-off (that is called called congestion, and causes delay)

MCO does not aggresivly market its self to airlines. MCO has depended on the good fourture of steadily increaseing passenger numbers with little effort. There have been rumblings of MCO to make an attempt to attract an Asian Carrier (I have heard SQ tossed around), but I do not think it has progressed any further than a thought.
You can't beat the Experience.
 
MEACEDAR
Topic Author
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:57 am

RE: MCO International Routes

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 46):
Most of the remaining were charters, except for I think KLM and maybe Citybird and Trans European.

KLM
Spanair
Trans European
Air Europe
SkyJet (Excalibur)
Sobelair
Airtours
Air UK Leisure
Air Europa*
Monarch
Britannia
Citybird
Translift Airways*
Flying Colors
Air 2000

Let me tell you, MCO really needs to get rid of Martinair MCO-AMS route and replace it with a KLM, MCO-AMS, just like in the old days.

For the rest of the airlines, do you know what route some of them went on?

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