leelaw
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Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:48 am

Cathay Pacific Airways will be introducing next year a new economy class seat with a unique fixed back design which will allow passengers to recline without intruding on the space of passengers sitting behind...



http://www.bizbuzzmedia.com/blogs/airline/archive/2006/10/11/4932.aspx
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mpdpilot
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:00 am

those look very comfortable I wish the US airlines would offer economy like that, especially on those cross country flights
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planemanofnz
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:08 am

Well I just flew back home this week on Cathay, LHR-HKG-AKL and the current seat was comfortable enough for me, it was only the leg room which I didn't like. Will the seat pitch be changing with these new seats?
 
virgin744
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:24 am

I'm suprised the fixed back design isn't already a standard feature these days. As Cathay explains "The recline button enables the seat bottom to slide forward while the back recedes into the shell. To return to upright position, simply slide the seat back"

I hope other airlines look at bringing in this new seat design too, in the not-too-distant future..


virgin744
 
SkyvanMan
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:25 am

I don't see anyhting about increased seat pithc, though I htink that hte legroom wil lhave to increase solely because theyhave fixed backs and therefore that fixed back must sitll allow enough space for people to board. Cathay also claims that the seat design allows for more knee and leg room.

BTW I just looked again and saw they have implemented 3 point seat belts for incrased safety. I'm sure some poeple will complain about that but personally I welcome it, especially since it is convertible to 2 point during flight.

[Edited 2006-10-13 01:29:45]
The 3 best planes of all time: Shorts Skyvan, 330 and 360
 
gokmengs
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:33 am

I really think every FF should applaud CX for this move, even if they fly Y or J. The fact that people can ridicilously recline their seat(I never recline all the way) even at meal times, and the person behind them won't be bothered by that deserves an award Smile
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jonty
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:34 am

They have this design on the seats on long distance trains on spain! the only annoying thing is that since the seat slides forward you end up with less leg room! but it is good how you don't end up with a seat back in your face!

The work well on the RENFE trains as you allready have enormous ammounts of leg room to start with! Gotta love the AVE / Altaria!
 
dz09
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:45 am

I believe Emirates has this feature already. As the back reclines the seat moves forward. the whole seat basically pivots. It still intrudes into the space of the seat behind.
 
redflyer
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:58 am

There was another thread on this a couple of weeks ago but it's good to talk about these new seats. I think they're pretty revolutionary and will set CX apart from other carriers. I love CX. I fly them every time I go to Asia.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
oxygen
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 7):
I believe Emirates has this feature already. As the back reclines the seat moves forward. the whole seat basically pivots. It still intrudes into the space of the seat behind.

I think what you are mentioning is the seat having its pivot raised so that the seat base slides forward slightly forward when reclining. Actually many airlines has that feature now- Cathay has that in its now most up to date economy class seats (on the A340-600, newer A330, A340, 747-400 and 777-300).

That seat is in fact manufactured by Koito, which means that many other airlines has that feature too- I can think of VS, Thai, Dragonair, SAS, Japan Airlines .....
 
xwizard
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Oxygen (Reply 9):
Cathay has that in its now most up to date economy class seats (on the A340-600, newer A330, A340, 747-400 and 777-300).

Having recently flown on one of CX's A340-600 on the LHR-HKG leg, they need to do something with the seat pitch if this is really going to be an improvement for Y class passengers - but as that will mean the loss of a couple of rows of seats I'm not holding my breath.
 
christao17
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:25 am

Increased pitch would be nice, but I can live with 31-32" pitch if the person in front of me doesn't recline into my space. It's when they recline that the claustrophobia kicks in!
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
 
dz09
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting Christao17 (Reply 11):
Increased pitch would be nice, but I can live with 31-32" pitch if the person in front of me doesn't recline into my space. It's when they recline that the claustrophobia kicks in!

Going back to the poor fat guy. Would you rather sit next to a fat guy or behind a person who is almost sitting on your lap?
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:18 am

I also notice that they are introducing 3 point seatbelts. But those magazine spaces would be annoying under your legs.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
chrisrad
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:44 am

I'm not sure what the difference in the seat sliding forward towards the seat in front of you or the seat reclining towards you makes such a big difference, in both cases you loose legroom, something which CX has none of.
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:00 pm

From the pictures that this airline has publicly shown, the legroom does indeed seem plentiful.

I tried similar seats made by Sicma recently. As I reclined, there didn't seem to be much recline at all. At full recline my knees hit the seat in front (and I'm not overly tall).

The seats at the time were configured in 31" pitch. It wasn't great for one minute, let alone a few hours.

I suspect we'll see 33" pitch or more here.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
SQ772
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:34 pm

Tried the fixed back Y seat some years ago during the Asian Aerospace... the seat basically slides lower. The recline is less and you still get that claustrophic feeling as you now move closer to the seat infront of you instead of the reverse.

I'm looking forward to Singapore Airline's new inflight products that will be launched in Singapore next week! These products will come with the 777-300ER - set to join the fleet by the end of the year.

Have been unable to get any details on how the new First and Business products will look like, but from those who have actually seen the product (but are bound by NDA), their comments have been "Totally blew me away" and "Very different from what other airlines are currently having"....

As for Y seats, I'm sure there will be minor enhancements, but I wouldn't bet on anything revolutionary.
There's always a better way to fly...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting SQ772 (Reply 16):
The recline is less and you still get that claustrophic feeling as you now move closer to the seat infront of you instead of the reverse.

It hadn't really crossed my mind but I asked the Head of Differentiation at Boeing what he thought.

He said that while you may (hopefully) or may not get more personal space, the fixed back acts on a psychological feeling that if you are reclining, you are cramping yourself into a smaller space, rather than someone forcing a smaller space on you.

Intriguing.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:53 pm

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N754PR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:02 pm

Cathay for sure did a 1st here, I like Cathay but the leg room is a bitch for me so this looks good news. The non moving seat back and the magazine holder now located under your seat should help.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
jush
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:33 pm

pitch will decrease as you slide the seat forward to recline. I cannot accept that further reduction hey I'm 6'4" ..

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
BAtriple7
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:39 pm

Naah, these seats are awful. Have tried them on some ES train services in Italy and elsewhere in Europe, they are uncomfortable, the seats kinda just slide up and down, and as Jush mentioned, the pitch decreases the further forward you go.
 
madairdrie
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:53 pm

To those who mention the reduced space when you recline in these seats - at least it is you who decided to decrease the space as opposed to the person sitting in front of you, who you have no control over. Means you now have complete control over your space.
Kenneth
 
UA933
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:55 pm

These seats are used on some trains (e.g. Eurostar Italy) and are very uncomfortable.
united - It's time to fly!
 
BAtriple7
Posts: 217
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting UA933 (Reply 23):
These seats are used on some trains (e.g. Eurostar Italy) and are very uncomfortable.

 checkmark  see my post above

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 22):
least it is you who decided to decrease the space as opposed to the person sitting in front of you, who you have no control over

Except that in airline seats if the person in front of you reclines, your legroom pitch does not decrease!!!
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:14 pm

Quoting Xwizard (Reply 10):
they need to do something with the seat pitch if this is really going to be an improvement for Y class passengers - but as that will mean the loss of a couple of rows of seats I'm not holding my breath.

Spoke to the people demonstrating the new CX product at Cathay City and they said as a result of these new seats, they have to take out a few seats from each aircraft. Same goes for the new Business Class.

Shows they are willing to make sacrifices for their passengers.
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
 
MYT332
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:19 pm

Virgin Trains use them in First class in the UK. They're not really that great and I've never managed to get any sleep in them. However, train seats usually have a lot firmer cushion so I don't know if that makes an difference.
One Life, Live it.
 
xfeed
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting UA933 (Reply 23):
These seats are used on some trains (e.g. Eurostar Italy) and are very uncomfortable.

Yes I agree... CP "Alfa Pendular" train service in Portugal also use this kind of seats, and they are very uncomfortable. I really prefer normal seats.
 
keesje
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:26 pm

I once proposed this concept to Recaro 8/9 yrs ago, they reacted "we know better", I still have the sketches somewhere.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
N754PR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:41 pm

Question, how many of you have tried them?

1) the seats does move forward but the magazine rack has gone so there is extra space.

2) As mentioned above now ITS you that has the option to control your space, guys whats the point of putting your seat back in Y anyway... the difference is so small. So you get more legroom

3) I dont think CX are using the same seats as a train!
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
747srule
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:29 pm

I work for the company that makes these!
Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting 747srule (Reply 30):

Oh wonderful. Do you know what pitch is planned for these seats on this particular airline and what weight savings there are versus 2000-esque Y seats?
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
hb88
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:45 pm

I'd definitely put up with less legroom to not have to put up with that claustraphobic feeling when the guy in front reclines.

It always seems to be my fate on long haul to get someone in front of me who keeps their seat reclined the second the seat-belt sign goes off to the second it goes on before decent, day or night (and usually refuses to put it up for meal service...).
 
flybyguy
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 13):
I also notice that they are introducing 3 point seatbelts.

I think 3 point belts are now a necessity in the Cathay Pacific design because of the close proximity of the hard shells in economy. I can only imagine that during a sudden stop that people will end up breaking their teeth or the noses on the seat in front of them. The seat in front of you no longer has a cushioning/flexing properties that the old-fashioned styles exhibited.

As far as seat pitch I think Cathay will at minimum keep current economy seat pitches... so any increase may be a side effect of the space requirements of the new seats (i.e. they can't fit as many of the new seats as the old ones so they may have to remove a row).

Incidentally... perhaps seats in front of a bulkhead will no longer be undesirable with the new seat design since the reclining action is done completely within the seat's shell.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
Wahoo
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting 747srule (Reply 30):
I work for the company that makes these!

Really,
Have you had the opportunity to actually sit in one?
If so, are the comfortable?
Does your company have a brochure for sales and or promotion? Maybe a pdf?
website?
 
N43W79
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:04 am

I have sat in this seat before, and let me tell you it is NOT comfortable for anyone taller than 6ft. There is no leg room at 32" of pitch. They need to be spaced at 34" plus for taller passengers to like it. And sure, the seatback is fixed... but it feels like the person in front of you is permanently reclined.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting N43W79 (Reply 35):
it feels like the person in front of you is permanently reclined.

Did you feel that the recline was marginal? I wasn't too impressed with the seat that I tried.

Anyway, I'm shorter than 6ft so I didn't feel like the seat in front was permanently reclined.

Assuming my 31" pitch and the removal / move of a magazine compartment gives you 1". I'd say 34" or more is needed for these seats.

This then poses the problem of a possible near unacceptable loss in Y seats.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
Zudnic
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting BAtriple7 (Reply 24):
Except that in airline seats if the person in front of you reclines, your legroom pitch does not decrease!!!

You point out one of the reasons why I would choose against an airline with this design. As a tall guy, I am much more willing to accept the seatback in front of me in my face than have to give up all (or most) of my legroom just to recline my own.

The existing design of most Y seats is such that if the person in front of you reclines, you can equalize your space by reclining your own seat. With this new design, reclining means you lose space, period.
 
bluewhale18210
Posts: 179
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:01 am

Believe me, as soon as the seat slides forward some legs are going to be cramped. As part of CI's new cabin design the seat in Y now slides forward, the problem is the pitch as it pushes in on my legs. That's on top of an empty seat in front which did not recline at all.
Nice thought, but there is no way cheating space. Not to mension the under-seat cubby hole may get smaller or nonexistant.
JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
 
redflyer
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Madairdrie (Reply 22):
To those who mention the reduced space when you recline in these seats - at least it is you who decided to decrease the space as opposed to the person sitting in front of you, who you have no control over. Means you now have complete control over your space.
Kenneth

 checkmark  checkmark  checkmark 

Quoting BAtriple7 (Reply 24):
Except that in airline seats if the person in front of you reclines, your legroom pitch does not decrease!!!

Pick your poison...seat back in your face or less legroom. Personally, I prefer less legroom because at least I can move around and work or watch videos as long as the seat-back in front of me stays put.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 28):
I once proposed this concept to Recaro 8/9 yrs ago, they reacted "we know better", I still have the sketches somewhere.

You should've patented it. Then you'd really have some bragging rights!  Wink

Quoting Hb88 (Reply 32):
and usually refuses to put it up for meal service...

One of the nice things about CX is the flight attendants make everyone put their seat-backs in the upright position during meal service.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
AirWillie6475
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:42 am

I don't care if you have captain seats in coach class, unless you have more seat pitch it's not going to make a difference. I was in a 6 hour flight a few weeks ago and I had a real long time to stare and think about how little space there is in economy. I can't believe people don't complain. The guy next to me fell asleep and the seat in front of him(reclined) was literally about a foot away from from his body.
 
redflyer
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 40):
I don't care if you have captain seats in coach class, unless you have more seat pitch it's not going to make a difference.

It will psychologically. Why do you think people in general don't complain or get claustrophobic sitting in a narrow tube flying at 40,000 feet and 600 mph in -50F temps? It's because of the way the cabins are designed. Every material and color and arrangement is intended to remove any feelings of being in a small metal tube that is daring the elements.

That 31 inch pitch is a lot smaller than you realize. Remove all the colors and material and other distractions and you will become a lot more uncomfortable than you currently are.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 40):
I can't believe people don't complain.

They do. The problem is people talk with their pocketbooks. And the airlines listen to those pocketbooks. And so far, the pocketbooks have been saying give me cheaper fares; seat pitch be damned!  Smile
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Areopagus
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:29 am

Those nice thick, adjustable headrests look like they will be quite nice for short to medium people. For taller people, they could be a disaster, as the adjustment appears to be low, and lower, with no head support but lots of poking in the shoulder blades.
 
787kq
Posts: 377
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RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting Jonty (Reply 6):
They have this design on the seats on long distance trains on spain! the only annoying thing is that since the seat slides forward you end up with less leg room! but it is good how you don't end up with a seat back in your face!

The work well on the RENFE trains as you allready have enormous ammounts of leg room to start with! Gotta love the AVE / Altaria!

Any clear pictures of the seats in action on trains or a link to the manufacturer's pictures?
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Cathay Revolutionizing The Economy Class Seat

Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 39):
One of the nice things about CX is the flight attendants make everyone put their seat-backs in the upright position during meal service.

Yep, they are a very very good airline. Just wish I could fly them more.

When people TRY these seats I'm sure they will find the legroom improved, however there will always be people that know everything about everything.
Bush, your a sad, sad man.