tcxdegsy
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New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:55 am

There's an article in today's TTG (Travel Trade Gazette), as below. Any comments or thoughts on the Herringbone layout? I don't rememer that being suggested before, but I may be wrong:

British Airways will reveal its new Club World cabin next month – and it is likely to emulate the layout used by Virgin Atlantic.

BA chief executive Willie Walsh will unveil the cabin in London on November 13.

Asked if the design would be a Virgin-style herringbone format, a BA spokeswoman said: “It could well be.”

BA led the industry by fitting flatbeds in business class six years ago. Although the flatbed concept was well received, the cabin design was criticised by some passengers because a few of the seats face backwards, and some found it difficult to move out of seats when the adjacent one is made into a bed.

A few years after BA’s redesign, Virgin responded with a herringbone layout for its Upper Class cabin, which allows passengers to move around freely but still includes a flatbed.

The BA spokeswoman said the new design “built on the success [it has] delivered over the last six years”.

“Obviously, we are going to stay with the flatbed, but we have improved the things customers said could be improved, and built on the things they really like.”

Like Virgin, BA will strive to give the cabin a trendy look to attract a younger class of premium passenger.

The spokeswoman added: “The look and feel of the cabin and seat will be quite different to what it is today.”

A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman said: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
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Stitch
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Thread starter):
Asked if the design would be a Virgin-style herringbone format, a BA spokeswoman said: “It could well be.”

The format certainly is gaining interest, with DL, NZ, AC and CX using it.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
The format certainly is gaining interest, with DL, NZ, AC and CX using it.

It's a very efficient layout so it's not surprising many are incorporating it. Have a few friends that say it's very comfortable as well. Never experienced it personally though.

Aeroflot777
 
DavidT
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Thread starter):
Asked if the design would be a Virgin-style herringbone format, a BA spokeswoman said: “It could well be.”

That's interesting, I wonder why nobody who has seen the new cabin (even those not under NDA) hasn't mentioned this? Everything I have read has pointed to the same forward/backward layout used in today's CW cabin.
 
cusaeng
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Thread starter):

A Virgin Atlantic spokeswoman said: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”

said ba when virgin installed flat beds mwahahahha

Quoting DavidT (Reply 3):
Everything I have read has pointed to the same forward/backward layout used in today's CW cabin.

snap !
I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
 
A340600
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Thread starter):
Asked if the design would be a Virgin-style herringbone format, a BA spokeswoman said: “It could well be.”

Blatent blagging IMO. I really don't think someone would be that open about it, especially at BA,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:58 am

The BA 'spokeswoman' is probably just being careful to not to confirm or deny anything!
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AlanUK
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Thread starter):
Asked if the design would be a Virgin-style herringbone format, a BA spokeswoman said: “It could well be.”

I can assure you that this is a complete fabrication, the New Club World is the same footprint (2-4-2) as the current one, it has been tested and passed its licensing with this model, and BA is keeping this format for the New Club World.

Regards
 
jfk777
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:13 am

I feel BA should dump the backwards seats, I can't see them not going with the Virgin type seats, Cathay and so many others are.
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:14 pm

As long as BA have resolved the problem of back-facing pax having to step over their neighbour's legs to get out, then they won't need to go down the herringbone route
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comorin
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:11 pm

As a big fan of rear facing seats, I hope they don't go away. I don't like sitting at angle to the longitudinal axis of the cabin, so I hope BA won't go with the Herringbone.

just my humb. op.
 
BALAX
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:35 am

The new Club World seat is fantastic, you will not be disappointed. Plus it's more cushiony.
 
comorin
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:55 pm

Sorry if this has been asked before, but when can we expect to see it on the JFK-LHR routes? I'd like to be the first one on my block to try it.

Good show, BA!  thumbsup 
 
AlanUK
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:59 pm

Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
but when can we expect to see it on the JFK-LHR routes?

From mid-november first aircraft. JFK will be first, following by HKG. BA will not advertise the new Club World until they can ensure that all JFK departures are with the new seats.

Regards
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 13):
From mid-november first aircraft. JFK will be first, following by HKG. BA will not advertise the new Club World until they can ensure that all JFK departures are with the new seats.

I'm resigned to the fact I ain't going to sample the new cabin on my flight to SFO on the 14th December  cry 
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comorin
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 15, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 13):

Thanks! No reason to fly F anymore...  Wink
 
trekster
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:41 am

AT LAST
Hope we get told before the general public.
Would be nice to know a little about it, we have to sell the thing lol
Where does the time go???
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:27 pm

I really don't understand why BA is still being so 'cloak and dagger' about the whole thing. Literally THOUSANDS of BA crew have been through a mock-up of the new cabin and seen the new seat/features.

When I had my visit to the mock up I was told that (unlike the past) the first aircraft fitted (a high J config 747) will NOT be dedicated to LHR/JFK as it had produced a logistical nightmare in the past. It will fly on which ever route it is assigned.

However, we were told that the high J 747's will be configured first and that within three months of launch BA will be able to offer a 'guarantee' of the new cabin on the LHR/JFK route.

PS. The new lay-out is NOT herringbone.  Wink
 
AlanUK
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 17):
When I had my visit to the mock up I was told that (unlike the past) the first aircraft fitted (a high J config 747) will NOT be dedicated to LHR/JFK as it had produced a logistical nightmare in the past. It will fly on which ever route it is assigned.

However, we were told that the high J 747's will be configured first and that within three months of launch BA will be able to offer a 'guarantee' of the new cabin on the LHR/JFK route.

That is exactly it. BA will try to put the high-J New Club World 747s on the JFK, but they'll fly all over the place. As I said previously, BA will not advertise the New Club World until enough aircraft have been "stretched" to ensure all JFK flights feature it.

Under a month to go now  Smile
 
BALAX
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:48 am

Remember, they are still trying to sort out if the new Club World class will be placed where WTP sits right now and moving the WTP forward, in front of Club, which doesnt' make sense, but who knows.
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:50 am

I believe the above is 'sorted' BALAX. Storage of catering, crew/service routines (1 f/a will work in the WTP cabin on their own) are now all in place.

The config with WTP in front of CW is only being applied to the Low J 747's. I thought it was to be WTP in front of CW on all the 747's, but (thankfully) not.

There are a few bits and pieces that are yet to be seen....like how to restrict WTP passengers from the enhanced 'Club Kitchen' offerings, and also priority dis-embarkation. But I guess FIRST passengers have for years (at most stations) had to put up with getting off behind CW passengers via door 2 so I don't think there will be too many frayed tempers.

It's just a shame that more airports with horrendous immigrations Q's (like the USA) don't offer a FastTrack arrivals channel for premium passengers.  down 
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 20):
It's just a shame that more airports with horrendous immigrations Q's (like the USA) don't offer a FastTrack arrivals channel for premium passengers.

I'm sure BA will push for that where they have a bit of 'clout' - such as JFK
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aerohottie
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:42 am

I thought BA were going to have a business seat and layout similar to what is on Etihad?
What?
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 22):
I thought BA were going to have a business seat and layout similar to what is on Etihad?

NOPE! No change from the current config
 
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Vasu
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 23):
NOPE! No change from the current config

Sounds like it may be a dissappointment... I do hope its not just a "jazzed up" version of the current one
 
BOE773
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 24):
"jazzed up" version of the current one

The current one would look more at home in a museum!
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 23):
NOPE! No change from the current config

Sounds like it may be a dissappointment... I do hope its not just a "jazzed up" version of the current one


No, not what I meant when I said no change from the current config.

The configuration is the only thing staying the same, with the same forward/rearward set-up.

I should definitely think that both BA (and it's passengers) are expecting more than a 'jazzed up' version, considering they are spending GBP100million ($US186.5Million) on the new Club World product.

It is a COMPLETELY new seat, new cabin, new furnishings, new features.

[Edited 2006-10-17 03:13:19]
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:15 am

I'm sure VS are booking some full-page ads in the Evening Standard for Nov 13th as we speak.  Big grin
 
AlanUK
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:12 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 25):
The current one would look more at home in a museum!

Considering the current Club World makes around £6 billion of revenue per year (that's a huge £12.7 billion of your little canadian dollars), that musem would be very lucky indeed.

No offence, but BA's current Club World product, which has been around for 6 years now and which you seem to believe belongs to a musem was a complete revolution when it was launched and is still today miles ahead of many, many carriers.
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 28):
No offence, but BA's current Club World product, which has been around for 6 years now and which you seem to believe belongs to a musem was a complete revolution when it was launched and is still today miles ahead of many, many carriers.

... and knowing BA, the new product will have some new and unique features that no-one else has... that's the beauty of BA in this area - innovation, and thinking outside the box.

One query though, which I'm not sure if any of the BA peeps can clarify/confirm: Does the new cabin design resolve the 'stepping over' problem the current CW config has?
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JAL
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:59 pm

I really hate those Virgin style seats! But oh well....
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 29):
One query though, which I'm not sure if any of the BA peeps can clarify/confirm: Does the new cabin design resolve the 'stepping over' problem the current CW config has?

TCX the mock up only has two of the seats on show so it is difficult to judge whether the 'stepping over' issue is resolved. Considering the configuration hasn't essentially changed, I would hazard a guess and say you probably will still have to step over a pair of legs.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:06 am

Too bad SQ beat them to the punch.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
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Stitch
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 32):
Too bad SQ beat them to the punch.

CX's new F/C/J cabins look pretty impressive, as well.
 
jfk777
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:18 am

I hope BA high club hopes aren't trumped by the new SQ 773ER Business Class, 1-2-1 accross on the 773ER. Singapore's new FIRST is even more incredible.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:33 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's going to look something like:

Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
EmiratesUK
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:40 pm

I must say I'm not a fan of the current CW layout, I flew with them a few weeks ago to the states and I was very dissapointed. The seat felt very cramped (width) and it was a nightmare to step over the lady sitting next to me everytime I wanted to use to toilet or visit the gally. I also founf the crew to be rather rude. I found the meal service very poor next to the likes of EK & SQ.

I've flown BA several times and I still prefer the old cradle seat for comfort and layout.

I had the backward facing seat on my return flight and it was just strange! especially if you don't know the person sitting opposite you.

I do hope its a big improvement on the current layout and comfort.
EK A380 Private suite - Here I come!!
 
aussiestu
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:24 am

Just seen it yesterday and believe it is very good. I liked the seat and all its features. Recently flew VS Upper class and while the seat was comfortable i did not like the inward facing or some of the seat controls. Its all down to the individual and some will find the new BA seat a vast improvement and others will not like it, you win some you lose some.
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:54 am

Singapore....have you seen the seat?? Your illustration is really close to how the new seat is!

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 36):
The seat felt very cramped (width) and it was a nightmare to step over the lady sitting next to me everytime I wanted to use to toilet or visit the gally. I also founf the crew to be rather rude. I found the meal service very poor next to the likes of EK & SQ.

Agreed, however the new seat is wider.

As for the 'stepping over issue'. unfortunately this happens on any config where there is a middle seat, BA with it's forward/rearward arrangement or just conventional '3 in the middle'.

The meal service could be improved, especially if you are comparing it to the likes of SQ. 'Dining on Demand' was to be introduced with the new cabin. This idea was scrapped however. BA put their ideas to their top 1,800 Premier and Gold card golders. The overwhelming majority said they preferred conventional mealtimes as their priority is to sleep during the flight. They did not like the idea of the person next to them having a tray laid for a 3 course meal while they wanted to sleep. So, 'Club Kitchen' will be launched which is essentially an enhanced raid the larder service but with a much wider menu including hot snakc/meals.

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 36):
I've flown BA several times and I still prefer the old cradle seat for comfort and layout.

I think 97% of passengers who have flown Club in both configs will disagree with you here. The current Club World product, although now dated was a huge success (and still is). Mainly down to the fact it offers a fully flat bed.

Quoting EmiratesUK (Reply 36):
I had the backward facing seat on my return flight and it was just strange! especially if you don't know the person sitting opposite you.

All the seats have ample privacy dividers. You not need to even set eyes on the person sat next to you. With the new seat the privacy divider has been enhanced from the current 'fan' to a much more moderns/technological and appealing design  Smile
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:23 pm

Wow. Thank you BAStew. That was comprehensive...

For those who think that CX copied every one... their seats do not have to be flipped back. They slide down like normal seats ala BA. Their layout is like the Herringbone design though. SQ's seats on the other hand , is unique, in a 1-2-1 layout on a 777-300ER aircraft, needs to be flipped over to make into a bed.

See the video here: http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...nt/exp/new/businessclass/video.jsp
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 38):
Singapore....have you seen the seat?? Your illustration is really close to how the new seat is!

Thank you  Smile. Alas I cannot take credit. It was just an image from the publicly available UK Patent Office and I edited it to get rid of the weird arrows and irrelevant stuff.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:15 am

Even though there will be the obvious comparisons to the new SQ cabin when BA does release their details next month, I'm confident BA will have come up with innovations and outside the box ideas to wrong-foot a few people.

They've always said the new cabin is a mere 'enhancement' of the current CW, so it can't be too radical. I think most of the changes will be cosmetic and service updates/improvements, as opposed to major structural seat differences.
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Shamrock_747
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 41):
They've always said the new cabin is a mere 'enhancement' of the current CW, so it can't be too radical. I think most of the changes will be cosmetic and service updates/improvements, as opposed to major structural seat differences.

The new Club World is going to be a completely new seat, not just an enhancement of the current one. The 'soft' enhancements such as new catering and Club Kitchen were launched on 1st October, prior to the launch of the new bed next month.
 
A340600
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 39):
See the video here: http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_U...o.jsp

WOW! Singapore's new J is AMAZING!
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
Kevin777
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:48 am

I think it's a wise decision for BA not to go with the heeringbone, although I haven't tried CW or any heeringbone-"equipped" airline in J..

1) All other things equal, a heeringbone configuration would mean fever seats in J; with the heeringbone 1-2-1 would be the only option, and although this would not mean half as many seats, a 20-30 % reduction in seats going heeringbone would not be impossible.

2) Going heeringbone in J would be bringing their J-product dangerously closer to First, which would no doubt result in buy-downs from pax otherwise flying in F.

3) To compensate for the fewer seats in J and to deter buy-downs from F, prices in J would go up - and probably above a level where many people otherwise flying J would not buy. Then Traveller Plus is left, but that would be "too far" down, and another airline would be chosen by many.

4) Travellers who want heeringbone already have other alternatives, most notably VS. BA going heeringbone would put them in a tougher position against VS. Heeringbone is not preferred by everybody - if you're travelling in pairs or in a family, a heeringbone configuration is not ideal.

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 39):
SQ's seats on the other hand , is unique, in a 1-2-1 layout on a 777-300ER aircraft, needs to be flipped over to make into a bed.

Is that SQ's J-class??? My god, what is their first class like then, 1-1?!?!?

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
tcxdegsy
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:36 am

Anyone know who designed and built the new SQ Business Class seat?
Some of the features sound like the kind of things BA would want to incorporate (the in-seat software sounds like a moment of genius)!
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Stitch
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:39 am

Quoting TCXDegsy (Reply 45):
Anyone know who designed and built the new SQ Business Class seat?

The new premium class products are manufactured in Japan by Koito Industries Limited based on this article: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0610/S00224.htm
 
bastew
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:08 am

Found out today which aircraft the first to be unveiled is: G-BNLN. A High J config 747  Smile
 
oxygen
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 44):
1) All other things equal, a heeringbone configuration would mean fever seats in J; with the heeringbone 1-2-1 would be the only option, and although this would not mean half as many seats, a 20-30 % reduction in seats going heeringbone would not be impossible.

Actually, Herring-bone arrangment is very space efficient, and can even fit more seats onto the aircraft than the BA config (or have the potential to do so). If you do a drawing and measurement of the 2 configurations you can see that. Definitely not a 20-30% reduction in seats. That's why so many airlines are going for the VS configuration: NZ, AC, CX, DL.

Remember that when Virgin changed their upper class to the suites on the A340, they went from around 55" pitch to fully flat bed with only reduction in a few seats (is it 4? can't remember...., also a reduction in bar size)
 
Ikarus2006
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RE: New BA Club Seat To Be Revealed Nov 13th

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:19 pm

TCXDegsy,

The new B/C seat of SQ was designed by a London based design studio, James Park Associates:

http://www.jpadesign.com/

It was engineered and manufactured by Koito in Japan:

http://www.koito.co.jp/f_index.html

Cheers!

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