OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:47 am

************************************************************
NTSB ADVISORY
************************************************************

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

October 13, 2006

************************************************************

NTSB TO INVESTIGATE A RUNWAY OVERRUN IN
BURBANK, CALIFORNIA

*********************************************************

The National Transportation Safety Board has sent an
investigator to the scene of today's runway overrun of a
Gulfstream G-II (N113AR) at Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena
Airport, Burbank, California. The aircraft, carrying five
passengers and two crewmembers, overran runway eight and was
stopped by an Engineered Materials Arresting System (EMAS).
There were no injuries to those onboard and minor damage to
the aircraft.

The Safety Board will retrieve the airplane's cockpit voice
recorder, gather radar data, and evaluate the performance of
the EMAS system during this incident.

The Safety Board has made recommendations regarding airport
runway safety areas and is interested in examining the
performance of EMAS.


NTSB Public Affairs, Terry N. Williams: (202) 314-6100
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:53 am

FYI, A-Rod (yes, of the Yankees) was on board.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:01 am

So, what time tommorrow is the announcement going to be made that the Yankees will be using train travel again for the 2007 season?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
KELPkid
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:12 am

Is this the same runway @ BUR that the WN flight went off the end off of in 2000? If so, is the addition of an EMAS area new? I would imagine that there's only so much an EMAS area can do for you...sounds like it worked in this case.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
bravogolf
Posts: 359
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:13 am

Is this the first save for EMAS?
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Bravogolf (Reply 4):
Is this the first save for EMAS?

If so A-Rod has a lot of thanking to do.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:17 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Is this the same runway @ BUR that the WN flight went off the end off of in 2000?

Yes...

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
If so, is the addition of an EMAS area new?

Yes...

Quoting Bravogolf (Reply 4):
Is this the first save for EMAS?

Nope. The one on 04R at JFK has snagged 3; a Saab 340, a DC-10/MD-11, and a 747... There may be other, at JFK and elsewhere, but nothing comes immediately to mind...

[Edit]

Here's pix of the Saab 340 and MD-11 at JFK...

http://esco.zodiac.com/index.cfm/navid-4

[Edited 2006-10-14 01:40:37]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bravogolf
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:18 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:28 am

Who pays to replace the damaged EMAS in an overrun? Is the aircraft owner/operator on the hook. Will the aircraft insurance pay?
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Bravogolf (Reply 4):
Is this the first save for EMAS?

Luckily it wasn't a blown save...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
Luckily it wasn't a blown save...

A-Rod's not a pitcher  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
flyingbronco05
Posts: 3484
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):
runway overrun of a
Gulfstream G-II (N113AR)

N113AR is a G-3 according to Flight Aware
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...R/history/20061013/1752Z/KLAS/KBUR
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Thread starter):

This hasn't been a good week for Yankees baseball players and aviation.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 11):

This hasn't been a good week for Yankees baseball players and aviation.

Purely coincidental events, and certainly not comparable as far as the outcomes. Yet, the media loves to link things...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
HPLASOps
Posts: 1767
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:56 am

Glad to see that the EMAS system is better at stopping things than Rodriguez is at 3rd base! Think Steinbrenner will think about spending $20 mil on a patch of collapsable concrete to play 3rd base?
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Purely coincidental events, and certainly not comparable as far as the outcomes. Yet, the media loves to link things...

Baseball players (and to a certain extent, fans  Wink ) are highly superstitious.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 11):

This hasn't been a good week for Yankees baseball players and aviation.

Purely coincidental events, and certainly not comparable as far as the outcomes. Yet, the media loves to link things...

True, but I can't deny that the Yankees and airplanes haven't gotten along too well this week.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 13):
Glad to see that the EMAS system is better at stopping things than Rodriguez is at 3rd base! Think Steinbrenner will think about spending $20 mil on a patch of collapsable concrete to play 3rd base?

Can the EMAS swing a bat?  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
HPLASOps
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Can the EMAS swing a bat?

Even if it couldn't, it would still be an upgrade over status quo.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
N1120A
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
Is this the same runway @ BUR that the WN flight went off the end off of in 2000?

Yes

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
If so, is the addition of an EMAS area new? I would imagine that there's only so much an EMAS area can do for you...sounds like it worked in this case.

The EMAS at BUR is designed to stop a 737 travelling 50 kts, which is faster than the WN 733 was going when it went off the runway.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Boston92
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
The EMAS at BUR is designed to stop a 737 travelling 50 kts, which is faster than the WN 733 was going when it went off the runway.

Still, the EMAS would have helped, and maybe would have reduced injuries.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
N1120A
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 18):
Still, the EMAS would have helped, and maybe would have reduced injuries.

You need to re-read what I posted. EMAS is designed to stop a 737 going FASTER than the WN 737 was going when it went off the runway. EMAS would have completely stopped the WN 737, and quite possibly prevented it's write off. Further, there were very few injuries in that incident.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
You need to re-read what I posted. EMAS is designed to stop a 737 going FASTER than the WN 737 was going when it went off the runway. EMAS would have completely stopped the WN 737, and quite possibly prevented it's write off. Further, there were very few injuries in that incident.

I am very sorry. You are right, I did not read your post correctly. Also, there were 47 injuries in the WN incident, that is about 1/3 the a/c.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 20):
Also, there were 47 injuries in the WN incident, that is about 1/3 the a/c.

Very few were serious.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:11 pm

That WN flight could have been a LOT worse too. Didn't it come to a standstill within a couple hundred feet from a gas station. That would have been a serious accident.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
EIPremier
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:17 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:24 pm

Slightly OT, but anyone know if they have or plan to put EMAS at MDW now, site of the other infamous WN overrun?
 
Boston92
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 23):
Slightly OT, but anyone know if they have or plan to put EMAS at MDW now, site of the other infamous WN overrun?

Doesn't MDW have multiple used rnwys. Would they put EMAS on all possible sites?
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting EIPremier (Reply 23):
Slightly OT, but anyone know if they have or plan to put EMAS at MDW now, site of the other infamous WN overrun?

Actually, they have 13C-31C closed as we speak so they can continue the EMAS installation on the NW side. I beleive they're also going to do the other 3 runway ends...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Purely coincidental events, and certainly not comparable as far as the outcomes. Yet, the media loves to link things.

You're kidding, right?  Yeah sure


I didn't wait for the media to link them. Being a Yankee fan, it just clicked in my mind and I noted the coincidence on here. You figure "what are the odds?"
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
N1120A
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:34 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 22):
Didn't it come to a standstill within a couple hundred feet from a gas station

Actually, it stopped basically in the station, very close to the pumps. Still, the tanks are underground, so it would not have likely been as bad as people think.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 2):
So, what time tommorrow is the announcement going to be made that the Yankees will be using train travel again for the 2007 season?

You know, I cannot believe that, after a good twelve hours, nobody has picked up on that comment...

In all seriousness, it is quite a good thing EMAS did its job, and kept Rodriguez safe and Yankee fans everywhere from committing mass suicide.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Boston92
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Still, the tanks are underground, so it would not have likely been as bad as people think.

That is beside the point, there are people filling up at every pump, one spark could blow the car up and the rest of the station; then blowing the tanks up.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
Brick
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 29):
one spark could blow the car up and the rest of the station; then blowing the tanks up.

You've been watching too many movies. Anyone who has ever seen a hose get pulled off a pump or an old lady run over a pump that results in fire knows the whole station doesn't blow up.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
Boston92
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Brick (Reply 30):
You've been watching too many movies. Anyone who has ever seen a hose get pulled off a pump or an old lady run over a pump that results in fire knows the whole station doesn't blow up.

Movies, you do realize that we are talking about a Boeing 737 running into a gas station. It could have very well, blown the whole thing up.

If you were in that gas station and saw the WN bird coming, you are telling me, you would have just stood there.

I would be running because I know the a/c as well as the gas station could ignite into a firey mess.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
bravogolf
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:18 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:37 am

Sorry to disappoint you Boston92, but there has NEVER been an explosion of a underground gas tank that was in active service! You can check with the National Fire Protection Association in the Boston area if you don't believe this. There is a small amount of gas in the dispensers, they are not pumps, the pumps are now in the tanks, but that is it.
 
liedetectors
Posts: 323
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:44 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 10):
N113AR is a G-3 according to Flight Aware
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N.../KBUR

100% False.

There are pictures of it on the database. It is clearly a GII. Interestingly enought, it is a GIIB, as evident by the retrofitted GIII nose and wing.

The canopy on it is clearly a GII.

[Edited 2006-10-14 20:41:26]
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
Boston92
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RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Bravogolf (Reply 32):
Sorry to disappoint you Boston92, but there has NEVER been an explosion of a underground gas tank that was in active service! You can check with the National Fire Protection Association in the Boston area if you don't believe this. There is a small amount of gas in the dispensers, they are not pumps, the pumps are now in the tanks, but that is it.

Maybe your idea of explosion is not my idea. If it catches fire, it has exploded into flames. In my mind, that is an explosion, and yes, I know of gas staions that have exploded or caught fire.

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 33):
100% False

As much as the aircraft might have been a GII, all FlyingBronco said was that flightaware.com said it was a GIII, so in that case, he is 100% CORRECT.

I confirm that flightaware did say it was a GIII
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
OPNLguy
Topic Author
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 26):
I didn't wait for the media to link them. Being a Yankee fan, it just clicked in my mind and I noted the coincidence on here. You figure "what are the odds?"

Funny, but if there hadn't been a NY Yankee aboard, and instead just a bunch of corporate folks in their corporate jet, this never would have garnered the media attention that it did, if any at all. The overrun itself wasn't even that severe-- the nosegear was 10-20 feet into the EMAS (and didn't collaqpse) and the main gears were still out of the EMAS material.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:07 am

Hope no one was planning on buying this aircraft, as it is for sale.

Regardless of who was onboard, glad the system worked as it should and that everyone on board was alright, be it a CEO or Baseball player.

Thanks,

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 36):
Hope no one was planning on buying this aircraft, as it is for sale.

What is AROD doing with a 1973 Gulfstream.
I am guessing he owns it given by the AR in N113AR.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 37):
What is AROD doing with a 1973 Gulfstream.
I am guessing he owns it given by the AR in N113AR.

Well, he's getting paid somewhere around $25 million a year so I don't think the cost is an issue. The registration makes sense, as the number on his uniform is 13.
Come to think of it, this incident did happen on a Friday the 13th. A-Rod wears #13. It's already been a bad week for the Yankees and aviation. Hmmmmmm...... scratchchin 

(Slightly off topic)
I think I should replace A-Rod for the coming season. Can't be that hard to whiff at every pitch and make $25 million a year for doing so.  Wink
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Boston92
Posts: 2553
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:56 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 38):
Well, he's getting paid somewhere around $25 million a year so I don't think the cost is an issue

I meant with the $$ he is getting paid, he could afford something more modern than a 1973. Learjet 45 maybe, or even a Boeing Business Jet.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
ONTFlyer
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:49 pm

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 34):
Maybe your idea of explosion is not my idea. If it catches fire, it has exploded into flames. In my mind, that is an explosion

No offense but what you are about to read is coming from a professional firefighter.

Catching fire and "exploded into flames" is most definitely NOT the same thing no matter what your rationalization. A candle wick catches fire. It does not explode. Starting a campfire. Not an explosion. A bunker buster bomb dropped from several thousand feet in the air...Explosion.

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 34):
and yes, I know of gas staions that have exploded or caught fire.


I see you are from So Cal as am I. You may have seen parts of a gas station on fire due to our frequent brish fires some other reason but I promise you, you don't know of any that have exploded here or anywhere else.

ONT
Doin' just fine thanks...
 
ua777222
Posts: 2987
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:23 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:53 am

Clearly the damage wasn't that bad as the aircraft is flying again....

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N113AR

BUR-OPF

Cool pictures too;


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tony C. Williams
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tony C. Williams



Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
BatonOps
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

RE: G-II Snagged By Emas At BUR Today Oct 13..

Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:49 am

Great pics UA777222. Looks like the EMAS made a good save!!  Smile

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