dhhornet
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The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:24 am

Now Emerald Airways has bit the dust, and Westair Sweden are just operating a few. Is this nearly the end of the Avro/H.S/BAe 748 in Europe?

Do the old Emerald 748s have any future?

I for one in the UK, will be sad not seeing this classic workable aircraft about. The noise and that bloody great wingspan  bigthumbsup 
 
beech19
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:31 am

Your thread title is very misleading. I assumed you were talking about the Boeing 748 (747-8).

Never had seen a BAe 748 and never will. Looked it up... EEK... ::runaway::
KPAE via KBVY
 
MEA-707
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Your thread title is very misleading. I assumed you were talking about the Boeing 748 (747-8).

We propliner fans think all the threads talking about the Boeing 748 are misleading, as we hoped they were about good old budgie, the Avro/HS 748. 

Indeed the European days are numbered. The aircraft soldiers on at modest scale in Canada, Honduras, Ecuador, South Africa and a few other countries for a few more years.

[Edited 2006-10-16 23:39:47]
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Your thread title is very misleading. I assumed you were talking about the Boeing 748 (747-8).

I was thinking the same thing.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
gkirk
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 3):
I was thinking the same thing.

Considering the Bae 748 was around first, then it shouldnt be considered misleading.
And you call yourselves Aviation geeks  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Your thread title is very misleading. I assumed you were talking about the Boeing 748 (747-8).

Hence the original 748.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 4):
Considering the Bae 748 was around first, then it shouldnt be considered misleading.
And you call yourselves Aviation geeks

 biggrin  Yep!

A photo or the 748 doing the it's biz!
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art
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 3):
Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Your thread title is very misleading. I assumed you were talking about the Boeing 748 (747-8).

Well, how would you refer to an aircraft marketed, sold and operated under the name 748? Not that I would refer to it as a 748. To me, it's a HS748 or a Bae748.

By the same token, I would not refer to the the large thing with 4 engines as a 748. To me, it's a Boeing 747-800 or a B748.
 
voodoo
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:02 am

I wonder if the 747-8 will outsell the BAe 748. Not an easy question to answer IMO.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
atmx2000
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:04 am

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
By the same token, I would not refer to the the large thing with 4 engines as a 748. To me, it's a Boeing 747-800 or a B748.

OK, this is a pet peeve of mine. One shouldn't prefix Boeing model numbers with B. By that convention one would have to refer to the A380 as the AA380.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
By the same token, I would not refer to the the large thing with 4 engines as a 748. To me, it's a Boeing 747-800 or a B748.

Yeah I agree, it's a 747-800... what I'm curious about is the 787-10... will a QF one be the 787-1038? I miss proper designation sequences!

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Never had seen a BAe 748 and never will. Looked it up... EEK... ::runaway::

I knew you would get responses like that. It kills me that people go running around after the latest thing and yet don't know bugger all about aviation history.

Quoting DHHornet (Thread starter):
Westair Sweden are just operating a few. Is this nearly the end of the Avro/H.S/BAe 748 in Europe?

Could be! Times are changing... or is that, time is passing?  Smile
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:17 am

340 = SAAB 340. What do you think of that?!

748 will always be The Avro, H.S., BAe, BAE = 748 !

Show some dignity and respect you lot, in this old girl that is fading away fast  wink 

Your Jumbo will have it's day!  stirthepot 
 
beech19
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
Well, how would you refer to an aircraft marketed, sold and operated under the name 748? Not that I would refer to it as a 748. To me, it's a HS748 or a Bae748.

I would refer to it as a BAe748, because thats what it is.

Quoting Art (Reply 6):
Boeing 747-800



Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
Yeah I agree, it's a 747-800...

There is NO such thing. It IS a Boeing 747-8.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
It kills me that people go running around after the latest thing and yet don't know bugger all about aviation history.

Oh i'm sorry... considering those aircraft have NEVER been flown in this part of the world and i have no interest in commercial prop-jobs doesn't mean i know nothing about aviation history.

What is the first aircraft that comes to mind when i say Boeing 717?

I'll tell ya if you don't know... but you obviously know everything about aviation history.
This is the same reason why when i see a thread saying 748 i assumed it was about a Boeing 747-8.
KPAE via KBVY
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
This is the same reason why when i see a thread saying 748 i assumed it was about a Boeing 747-8.

Bloody hell!
Original was put in the title because of this sort of idiot reply and comment. I was only asking about the Budgie and it's future in Europe.

If you are interested. I call it the H.S 748 as most were sold under that banner.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
What is the first aircraft that comes to mind when i say Boeing 717?

The tanker, baby.

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
Oh i'm sorry... considering those aircraft have NEVER been flown in this part of the world and i have no interest in commercial prop-jobs doesn't mean i know nothing about aviation history.

There's no excuse. It never flew in the part of the world I am from either (Australia) and yet somehow it went into my memory.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 13):
Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
Oh i'm sorry... considering those aircraft have NEVER been flown in this part of the world and i have no interest in commercial prop-jobs doesn't mean i know nothing about aviation history

A place called Canada is on the same bit of the world as the US of A!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
those aircraft have NEVER been flown in this part of the world


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Couldn't resist.

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beech19
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 12):
I call it the H.S 748 as most were sold under that banner.

You may call it whatever you wish. It is what it is. lol  Wink

If you are interested... the Boeing 717-100 was the proper designation for the airframe used for building KC-135 Stratotankers as they are shorter and have a thinner(oval) fuselage than the 707(circular) counterparts used in the AWACS and JSTARS ect.

They renamed the MD-95 to the 717-200 in honor of the old frame.
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ClassicLover
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 14):
A place called Canada is on the same bit of the world as the US of A!

Good point  Smile How many countries does the 748 operate in anyway?
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 17):
Good point How many countries does the 748 operate in anyway?

Try the links:

http://www.hs748.com/ - Out of date but gives you a bit of info.

and http://members.chello.nl/s.c.verbrugge/146.html - Info is about halfway down.
 
Asturias
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:58 am

Looks like a F27 with low wings.

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
beech19
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 13):
The tanker, baby.

You have thus proven my point.

Most often, the first thing people would think of when they saw 717 is the MD-95 thingy.
But in my circle since my dad flew on -135's for almost 30 years i think of that when i hear 717 first.
Just like you guys think of the BAe748 and i think of the Boeing 747-8 (being 2 miles from the main plant).

Its all relavant. Obviously i wasn't the only one who assumed you were talking about the 747-8. We were just among the fiew who actually posted.

PS- The pic that DHHornet posted does make it look very graceful. No disrespect.
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dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:03 am

Hawker Siddeley HS-780 Andover C1

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Don't forget the Andover

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1099354/M/
 
Stealthz
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:51 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 13):
It never flew in the part of the world I am from either (Australia)

Sure did, and for many years.....


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dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:15 pm

BA had some some success with the 748 in Scotland. But not with these two:

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Even this lot had 'em!

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So the 748 did get about a bit!
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:22 pm

The HS 748 is alive and well at ARN. West Air fly the post in and out every night. There is usually one parked on the Southern Cargo ramp all day. When I get to work at 0520 in the morning I usually drive past the last post flight taxying out for departure. We get loads of ATP here as well.
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 24):
The HS 748 is alive and well at ARN.

Make the most of it. Now Emerald are gone. I really have missed the things when I do night shift at BRS.

Not so long ago a DC-3 would pick-up the odd flight when a 748 was tech!

So now for nostalgic kicks at BRS I have the odd 737-200 (sorry 732) operating in and out. A TU-154 made a nice treat in the summer. I love a bit of noise and smoke. Save the planet and all that, but give me a One-Eleven giving it plenty of chaff at the end of a runway.

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It all started with this I guess. I rode my bike from Windsor to White Waltham in my youth and was blown away with this VC-10. I was delighted all these years later to find some pictures. It was a mad display and I think the Pilot was bollocked for it!

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grass cutting!

http://home.comcast.net/~markyboy217/blackbird.html
Now that's aviation!  smirk  It makes me feel like an old git at 44!
 
AirbusA6
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:00 pm

If you call the ATP a 748NG, then it's got a few more years to go! Having said that, ATPs are thin on the ground, as not many were sold...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
baroque
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 22):
Sure did, and for many years.....

And a little to the NNW, Bouraq flew them on CGK Bandung, Bandung Yogya, Surabaya to Ujung Pandang. They had a problem with climb and descent rates into Bandung so what is a 25 minute flight on a CN235 used to take about 50 minutes. Very quaint!
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):
OK, this is a pet peeve of mine. One shouldn't prefix Boeing model numbers with B.

Congratulations, you've just made me laugh Big grin
 
BigOrange
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 20):
Obviously i wasn't the only one who assumed you were talking about the 747-8. We were just among the fiew who actually posted

That's the trouble with yanks, they don't know anything about an aircraft if it was never operated in their skies  Wink

Are there any passenger 748's (the Avro ones) in Canada or are they all freighters? Would love to fly on one just for the hell of it. I wish I'd done a flight on an ATP before I left the UK as well!
 
cpairDC10
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting DHHornet (Thread starter):
Now Emerald Airways has bit the dust, and Westair Sweden are just operating a few. Is this nearly the end of the Avro/H.S/BAe 748 in Europe?

This will be a shame as a kid a long long time ago a freind of the family was a supervisor at good old Woodford where the old bird used to built i was 8 when he took me round the factory floor...... a great day as woodford was buzzing then with Nimrod and so on, the 146 was almost up and running, ive sat in many 748,s awaiting the cabin build but cant remember for who they were, but anyway as im now 38 the bird has been in service for over 30 years and a pretty safe service too .....enough of my book will be sorry to see it go.
Another thing anyone who knows props , knows a 748 aint a firkin jumbo !!!!
 
EI321
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 1):
Your thread title is very misleading.

Not really. In fact there is no such thing as a Boeing aircraft known officially as a '748', wheras '748' is indeed the official name of the Hawker Siddley aircraft that the thread refers to. And theres nothing wrong with the aircraft either.
 
Asturias
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):
OK, this is a pet peeve of mine. One shouldn't prefix Boeing model numbers with B. By that convention one would have to refer to the A380 as the AA380.

You are joking, of course.

Regardless, I always write B741 for the Boeing 747-100, because I can't be bothered with the long form. I doubt many can be.

For instance 748 can both apply to the B748 and the Avro/H.S/BAe 748. Numbers-only is a very unclear and sometimes confusing form to write the models of airplanes.

The 737? Probably referring to the Boeing 737, but the family in general or the B737-700? Which is why we write B73G. Alternatively Boeing 737-700.

But no one can be bothered to write that all the time.

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 29):
That's the trouble with yanks, they don't know anything about an aircraft if it was never operated in their skies

Maybe?

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 29):
Are there any passenger 748's (the Avro ones) in Canada or are they all freighters? Would love to fly on one just for the hell of it. I wish I'd done a flight on an ATP before I left the UK as well!

http://www.calmair.com/hawker.htm
Big version: Width: 386 Height: 288 File size: 110kb
Calm Air - 748 cabin


http://www.flyairnorth.com/about.html

http://www.airinuit.com/en/about/fleet.php

http://www.firstair.ca/About_First_Air/fleet.html#HS-748

All operate in a full pax or a combi set-up.
 
airtran717
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 11):
What is the first aircraft that comes to mind when i say Boeing 717?

Someone mentioned a tanker??? No. The Boeing 717 was designed as the MD-95, also known as the DC-9/MD80/90 series aircraft. Are you thinking of the Boeing C-17 Globe Master???
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 26):
Having said that, ATPs are thin on the ground, as not many were sold...

63 were built and West Air Sweden own 28 of them.
23 of these are in operation but the airline has just done a deal and bought the last remaining five from BAE very cheaply. The drawback is that they are pre mod everything!! Including ser nbr 02 and 03. But no problem for the Swedes. They have designed and fitted their own cargo door on the ATP and have a large expanding base in Lidkoping.
As they say how many airlines own half of all the built aircraft?
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 35):
63 were built and West Air Sweden own 28 of them.

Amazing 28!
Are the aircraft for just themselves, or will they be converting some of them then leasing or selling them off?
 
airtran717
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:17 am

And if we keep in the spirit of the thread, the Boeing 717-200 is really known as the B712... and that was typed right on the dispatch paperwork the captain always signs. Sadly the 717 is no longer in production, I believe as of the end of the year. I loved flying on that plane. It was truly a joy. AirTran will continue to fly that and the 737-700NG/800NG as the newest fleet in the industry... newest all-Boeing fleet for those nit-pickers.......
 
cobra27
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:58 am

Man, that 748 is really awesome plane
 
SJUSXM
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 10):
340 = SAAB 340. What do you think of that?!

i like it

although ive always heard the Saab 340 referred to as SF3
AT7, ER3, ER4, ER5, CR7, E70, E75, F100, M82, M83, 722, 732, 738, 752, 762, 763, AB6, 320, 321, 772, 77W
 
AirbusA6
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 35):
As they say how many airlines own half of all the built aircraft?

I bet they were cheap too! Almost as good a freighter as the equivalent ATR or Dash8, but at a fraction of the price - the MD11 of the prop world  Wink
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
patroni
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 29):
Are there any passenger 748's (the Avro ones) in Canada or are they all freighters? Would love to fly on one just for the hell of it. I wish I'd done a flight on an ATP before I left the UK as well!

Firstair still uses them as combi aircraft on some routes, I flew with them from YFB to YXP in November 2004. The forward part of the cabin is the cargo compartment, in the rear, behind a bulkhead are the passenger seats (4 rows with 16 seats on my flights)


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ywgjets
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:21 am

I love the sight and sound of the MO HS748s coming in low over my house from up north. I hope they're around for many more years.


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Did you know that for a short time (around 2000-2001) some Calm Air 748s had AC's Maple leaf on their tails? I couldn't find one in the database
 
dhhornet
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:22 am

And not forgetting the rare Indian built AEW Hindusta Aeronautics HAL 748...

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More info/pics @ http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_533.shtml
 
beech19
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 31):
Not really. In fact there is no such thing as a Boeing aircraft known officially as a '748', wheras '748' is indeed the official name of the Hawker Siddley aircraft that the thread refers to. And theres nothing wrong with the aircraft either

Wow... i think the you guys are taking this way to personally. No one said it was a bad plane or didn't exist. We just said (considering how much the Boeing 747-8 has been in threads lately) that it was misleading. We didn't say anyone was being malicious or intentially trying to mislead anyone. All we said was it was misleading. We assumed you were talking about the Boeing 747-8. We were mislead. Therefor it was misleading. It doesn't matter. Maybe the "BAe748 people" shouldn't assume just as us "Boeing 748" people shouldn't assume either groups care!

Why is it that you guys think that just because someone hasn't heard of this one aircraft or was mistaken in the 3-digit number they are some sort of moron or they are not a aviation enthusiasts, are you bent? Goodness gracious...

I don't know anything about WWI aircraft (not saying this is, its just an example). Why? becuase i have no interest in it. Who cares?! Am i an aviation idiot because of it? No... it means i just don't have interest. Just like i don't have much interest in props in general. I guess i'll just take my place as an aviation idiot because i didn't know what a HS748 was. Get over it!

Quoting AirTran717 (Reply 34):
Someone mentioned a tanker??? No. The Boeing 717 was designed as the MD-95, also known as the DC-9/MD80/90 series aircraft. Are you thinking of the Boeing C-17 Globe Master???

Um... NO. The 717-200 was what Boeing changed the MD-95 aircraft too after the merger.

The Boeing 717 as i said in Reply 16 was the thinner/shorter version of the 707 airframe(also know as 367-80 or Dash-80) that was used to build the KC-135's. Here is the Boeing Frontiers article about the 7-7's model numbers.
http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...chive/2004/february/i_history.html
KPAE via KBVY
 
Stealthz
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RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:07 am

The thread title was "original 748" hardly that misleading, Beech18 it is entirely possible that you may have started a thread titled "original 717" I guess you would be having the same discussion with AirTran717 whose experience and knowledge is limited in different ways.
None of us know everything about anything.. that is the joy of forums like this.

Now as this thread has been seriously hijacked into a discussion about the (B)748 or what Boeing call the 747-8 Freighter or Intercontinental rather than 747-x00 as has been customary. Will the customer versions be, eg for QF 747-8i-38 or 747-838?

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
ywgjets
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:03 pm

RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 44):

Just like i don't have much interest in props in general.
I guess i'll just take my place as an aviation idiot

If you have no interest in props, why do you choose Beech19 as your username?
 
dhhornet
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:01 am

RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 45):
Now as this thread has been seriously hijacked into a discussion about the (B)748 or what Boeing call the 747-8

Bang on matey!  checkmark  If you must know. I get bored reading about bloody Boeings and Buses!  yawn  But if that's your bag fair enough!

My thread title:

The End Of The Original 748 In Europe? Maybe should of read for clarity:

The End Of The Original 748 In Europe? !  wink 

or

The End Of The ORIGINAL Avro/HAL/HS/BAe/BAE 748 (NOT the 747-800) In Europe (a place that built some old planes). NOT ABOUT BOEING!

Bless yer all!
 
mbj2000
Posts: 295
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:15 am

RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:48 pm

Does anyone know how many of these great planes have been built in total?

Quoting DHHornet (Reply 47):
or

The End Of The ORIGINAL Avro/HAL/HS/BAe/BAE 748 (NOT the 747-800) In Europe (a place that built some old planes). NOT ABOUT BOEING!

 bigthumbsup 
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
dhhornet
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:01 am

RE: The End Of The Original 748 In Europe?

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:53 pm

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 48):
Does anyone know how many of these great planes have been built in total?

381 of all types.