B6WNQX
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F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:45 am

I saw this on CNBC.com this morning and it stuck me as odd in a way. F9 has issued an RFP to approxiamately 50 communitites within 1,200 miles of DEN to submit a proposal for service. F9 said that they know some markets that they want to go into but this will help them make the decision and reassure them that some of the cities will support their service.

What does everyone think of this?

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/cat...110630&industry=IND_TRANSPORTATION
 
RL757PVD
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:32 am

Anyone knwo what cities got them?

1200 miles is a long flight for a turbo prob, even though the Q400 is a good plane, can anyone imagine flying NYC-MIA on a Q400? I imagine the furthest route would be something like DEN-XNA
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
F9Animal
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
Anyone knwo what cities got them?

1200 miles is a long flight for a turbo prob, even though the Q400 is a good plane, can anyone imagine flying NYC-MIA on a Q400? I imagine the furthest route would be something like DEN-XNA

Within a 1200 mile range. I doubt they would go for the max, but the Q400 could probably do it.

Quoting B6WNQX (Thread starter):
What does everyone think of this?

Fishing around would be a good guess of it. See who would offer a deal. I am sure F9 already has its eyes on where it will go, but if you can get an additional incentive, it might up the honey in the pot a bit.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
FATFlyer
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:47 am

We'll have to wait for mariner to wake up to give us his view on this.

I would imagine that F9 planners have talked to most of the cities in the 1200 mile area already so they have some info. But there are a fairly large number of aircraft that will get placed next year.

I see this as a compressed move to speed up the final selection by saying, "we're ready to go very quickly, what is the most recent info about what your airport is going to cost us."
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
quickmover
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:04 am

I think this is an RFP for RJs as well as the props. I'm sure the longer flights would be for the jets. 1200 miles in an RJ is nothing unusual any more.
 
boslax
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:44 am

I certainly hope Frontier does a little more due diligence on the potential new markets instead of serving the highest bidders. No new market is worth serving if there is no long term potential and the only reason who serve the market is because of a guarantee.

Many of these communities that F9 is targeting are probably served by United to Denver. This will hamstring many of those communities since they may be precluded from offering incentives in markets that are already served on a nonstop basis. Should be interesting to watch the reaction of United in the coming months.
 
PVD757
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 4):
I think this is an RFP for RJs as well as the props. I'm sure the longer flights would be for the jets. 1200 miles in an RJ is nothing unusual any more.

yes, the RFP is for Q400 and CR7 service...

It would appear F9 is trolling for the best deal - airport incentives wise.
 
ordpark
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:38 am

A little positive publicity perhaps...portraying themslves as a 'user freindly' airline? not a bad idea!
 
RL757PVD
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:39 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
It would appear F9 is trolling for the best deal - airport incentives wise.

There's a shocker, ive heard from some airservice development folks i know that the guy at F9 can be pretty arrogant when it comes to dealing with airports who want service that arent willing to sell the farm...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 1):
1200 miles is a long flight for a turbo prob,

What turboprop? The CEO has said that the Q400 is limited to a 650 mile radius from Denver.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 4):
I think this is an RFP for RJs as well as the props.

Correct.

The interestng thing is that they don't yet have - or haven't announced - a new provider for their Jet Express service, and the first two Horizon CR7's leave them in January.

But they have time. The withdrawal by Horizon is to take a year, and they have covered the early returns by going mainline to FAT and more mainline to ABQ.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 6):
It would appear F9 is trolling for the best deal - airport incentives wise.

Why not? Every mountain resort and smaller city within a 650 mile radius is lined up outside Frontier's door.

It is a very long list. The latest was Sun Valley.

So if everything else is equal - such as Frontier's evaluation of the prospective market - why not see what swings the deal?

Just about every other airline "negotiates" for a deal with airports. Frontier is just telling the truth.

???

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
PVD757
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
Why not? Every mountain resort and smaller city within a 650 mile radius is lined up outside Frontier's door.

It is a very long list. The latest was Sun Valley.

So if everything else is equal - such as Frontier's evaluation of the prospective market - why not see what swings the deal?

Just about every other airline "negotiates" for a deal with airports. Frontier is just telling the truth.

???

mariner

why are so defensive about it? I never said anything was wrong with what they are doing - just pointed out what it seems they are doing. I think it's a smart idea to a point. The point being that these types of negotiations are usually left out of the media/public eye until an agreement is reached. I suppose floating the RFP without the press release would seem more 'prudent' for the lack of a better term. Its certainly good business to survey the market, but making it a media event is a bit tacky IMO.
 
PVD757
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8):
There's a shocker, ive heard from some airservice development folks i know that the guy at F9 can be pretty arrogant when it comes to dealing with airports who want service that arent willing to sell the farm...

I could only hope that ANY 'guy' from F9 would even consider serving PVD (much like many other local airport supporters I'm sure!!!)
 
TWA902fly
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:23 am

I'm all up for PVU-DEN. Until someone else steps in (most likely Delta protecting SLC), i think they could make a good chunk of money on it.

'902
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COERJ145
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:35 am

*cough* PSP *cough*

 
as739x
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:44 am

COERJ145: Funny you mention that. I flew DEN-LAX this morning on F9 flight 403 and was looking down at PSP wondering the same thing. During the winter season I would think a daily A318 could actually work.

ASLAX
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ikramerica
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:04 am

BUR? SBA?

And what about BOS and MSY? And increased frequency to LAX.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
KELPkid
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:07 am

Wonder if LRU would be sustainable going to a real airline hub with real connections instead of the largest city in the state...  scratchchin 
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
COERJ145
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
And what about BOS and MSY? And increased frequency to LAX.

With UA's domination and B6 keeping fares down, F9 would be killed. MHT or PVD would be more likely(though I would prefer it if F9 came to BOS).
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:37 am

Wishful thinking I know, but I'd like to see F9 fly DEN-PIA. UA dropped DEN-PIA in April 2003 and seems to have no interest in resuming this route. They apparently increased seating capacity and flights on their ORD-PIA route instead.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 10):
why are so defensive about it?

I didn't intend "defensive" - there woudn't be much point - but was simply stating the case for this.

But - to be fair - you may be right. I was actually had post #8 in mind when when I replied to you.

I had only just woken up (here) and I was working four boards on this news.

 Smile

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 11):
I could only hope that ANY 'guy' from F9 would even consider serving PVD (much like many other local airport supporters I'm sure!!!)

It might be a long wait. I think its pretty clear that Frontier's immediate future strategy is (not in any order): (i) regional, (ii) California and (iii) Mexico.

But hey - I've been wrong before. There were supposed to be three new US cities this year - but I would guess the fleet is getting too tight for that.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
And what about BOS and MSY?

At a guess - think west of the Big River. And south of west.

 Smile

mariner
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ikramerica
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
At a guess - think west of the Big River. And south of west.

Then just more LAX frequencies would suit me. Make it easier to take them to TPA and MCO.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
PVD757
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
I had only just woken up (here) and I was working four boards on this news.

no problem mate!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
It might be a long wait. I think its pretty clear that Frontier's immediate future strategy is (not in any order): (i) regional, (ii) California and (iii) Mexico.

I know, but alas, one can hope...
 
F9Animal
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:03 am

SFO to LAS announced.

Are these counter measures to Virgin? I think LAX and SFO to ASE would be a good market for the ski season too.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 22):
Are these counter measures to Virgin?

Counter measures? There's a few thoughts about that in this thread:
Frontier Adding SFO To Vegas (by FATFlyer Oct 17 2006 in Civil Aviation)

 Smile

mariner
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mariner
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:11 pm

Just to add a little perspective to this, there's this article about how ht epotential airports feel:

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=8387

Although there are these little snippets from Mike Boyd:

"Every whistle-stop, every speed trap within 500 miles has a plan to descend on Frontier to tell them how great their service would be," said Evergreen aviation consultant Mike Boyd."

"...adding that Cortez and Laramie, Wyo., are "probably out of the running."

The thing is, Cortez and Laramie might not think so.

 Smile

mariner
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FATFlyer
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:28 pm

That article also had this tidbit.
Frontier will start Q400 flights initially with nonmountain communities, Nunn said.
Nunn of course refers to Tom Nunn, the head of Lynx.

Of course that probably means the ski areas need to wait until the end of the year.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:12 am

Here's a funny that turned up this morning:

http://iagblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/...er-airlines-solicits-business.html

"Frontier is asking people for route ideas. This is a most unusual move. Normally, airlines, especially the LCCs, are inundated with requests for service. Along with these requests come gifts."

After dumping on Frontier, we discover why:

"...everyone prefers Southwest. They are bigger and richer."

It doesn't worry me that people think this - nor that they blog - it puzzles me that it turns up as "news" in Google News.

 Smile

mariner
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ssides
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:23 am

Come on, ABI, MAF and LBB!

OK, time to stop dreaming ...
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
MuseAir1981
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:29 pm

The original Frontier served the MAF and ABI markets during the oil boom in the 80's (1984) and dropped the route after several months.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: F9 Issues RFP To Communities...

Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:54 pm

Looking at the 2006 Small Community Air Service Development (SCADS) Federal DOT grant winners http://www.aviationplanning.com/images/2006%2520grants.pdf I saw several small communities within the 1200 mile radius of Denver who now have money to woo F9 if they choose to do so.

Some of cities are Montrose, CO. Gallup, NM. Kalispell, MT.
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