JetBlueGuy2006
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American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:54 am

I was just looking at the Route Map for AA and was wondering why AA doesn't serve LAN? I mean, even like 2-3 daily to ORD would give Lansing Area customers more options than NW and DL. There is nothing wrong with the service there, but living near by, I haven't seen much change in the landscape of service there since G4 announced and FlyI pulled out.

Any thoughts?
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commavia
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:59 am

AA used to fly to Lansing with ERJs from O'Hare 4-5 times per day up until 2000 or 2001. They cancelled the flights, IIRC, because they cited "rising energy prices." And that was 2000! Besides, AA covers the central Michigan market in a way they are satisfied with by having flights from O'Hare to GRR, FNT and AZO, plus DTW.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:23 am

I know why. But if I told you,.......oh, you know it goes

hint........the magic word here is Politics

safe
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ssides
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 2):
hint........the magic word here is Politics

Care to expand? How would politics play into that decision?

I have a better idea as to why they pulled out of LAN ... maybe "economics?"
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Cubsrule
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:50 am

This may be callous, but there's really nothing in Lansing besides MSU and the Michigan government. So while AA could pick up plenty of $200 connections to TPA, MCO, and CUN for spring break, I'm not sure what else would support the flight.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
This may be callous, but there's really nothing in Lansing besides MSU and the Michigan government. So while AA could pick up plenty of $200 connections to TPA, MCO, and CUN for spring break, I'm not sure what else would support the flight.

What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city.
 
SJUSXM
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city

well AA doesnt serve Flint either

although i do hope MQ can reenter LAN with 4 ERJ135 flights a day to ORD and maybe send 2 RJ's to FNT too

i know wishful thinking
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commavia
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 6):

well AA doesnt serve Flint either

although i do hope MQ can reenter LAN with 4 ERJ135 flights a day to ORD and maybe send 2 RJ's to FNT too

i know wishful thinking

AA flies to FNT from ORD 3x daily with ERJs.
 
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knope2001
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:49 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 5):
What is in Flint besides a bunch of closed auto factories? FNT is closer to DTW, so a part of FNT's market could just go to DTW while LAN is more isolated especially since LAN is located on the northwest side of the city.

A few things to point out....

(a) Greater Flint is not just a bunch of closed auto factories. Indeed some of inner-city Flint rivals the poverty of many big cities, and the area has more than its share of economic wounds. However Flint itself still has business, industry, and well-off people.

(b) Like it or not, the geography significantly favors Flint, not Lansing. The location of DTW is physically a bit closer to the city of Flint (77 highway miles) than the city of Lansing (88 highway miles), but there's a lot more Detroit traffic to fight on the trip from DTW to Flint, so it's roughly a wash.

What's not a wash is the relative position for LAN and FNT to serve well-off suburban Detroit residents and businesses. To the north/northwest of metropolitan Detroit is Flint. To the west/southwest of metropolitan Detroit is Lansing...and Detroit Metro Airport. Were Detroit's main airport on a different side of town, Lansing could siphon off a lot of traffic from the west/southwest part of greater Detroit and Ann Arbor. Instead, DTW's location siphons some traffic that might rightfully belongs to Lansing.

Flint, on the other hand, benefits greatly from the geograpahic layout of greater Detroit and the relative position of DTW. The biggest economic growth engines in the region around Troy, Pontiac, Bloomfield Hills are faster, easier drives to FNT than DTW. Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW.
 
scintx
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
Flint, on the other hand, benefits greatly from the geograpahic layout of greater Detroit and the relative position of DTW. The biggest economic growth engines in the region around Troy, Pontiac, Bloomfield Hills are faster, easier drives to FNT than DTW. Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW.

I agree with this statement. I moved from Novi to DFW 5 months ago. I flew often and generally it was out of FNT. The airfares were generally better and the parking was far cheaper and easier to deal with. Flint has a great airport and has mainline service too. Side note here, my last NW DC-9-10 flight was DTW-FNT on January 2, 2005. Very special memory.
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fll2993
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:53 am

I think some airlins should start serving benton harbor again. Reasons for this near south beend and chicago. Near detroit grand rapids and lansing. Cheap to fly in. Whirlpool headquarters. Ad the tourist spot of st joseph. Northwest use to make daily flights from detorit to benton harbor. I think It is a great airport ready for bussines
 
flyinryan99
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
AA flies to FNT from ORD 3x daily with ERJs.

I didn't know they went to 3x daily...when did they do that?
 
AIR757200
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:11 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
I didn't know they went to 3x daily...when did they do that?

When they operate a normal operation, it's three daily..  Wink

Sidebar: FNT AE operations are contracted-out.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Thread starter):
even like 2-3 daily to ORD would give Lansing Area customers more options than NW and DL

Soundly managed airlines do not choose which routes to fly for the sake of giving customers more options...

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Thread starter):
There is nothing wrong with the service there

In that case, why do customers in the LAN area need more options?
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 13):
In that case, why do customers in the LAN area need more options?

Because after 10 or so years, flying NW/DL Connection out of LAN gets old and I don't really want to drive to FNT (although they do have a nice airport). I do like to Drive to FNT if we are flyin FL though.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:14 pm

The drive to FNT from LAN is under an hour, its not an unreasonable drive either.

Farmington Hills/Novi closer to FNT than DTW? I don't think so. People greatly exaggerate how DTW is an inconvience. In reality it is one of the most efficient large airports in the country to get in and out of. FNT becomes a viable option if you live along the I-75 corridor in Northern Oakland county or along US-23 in Livingston County. Even then, only if you are flying to one of the nonstop destinations from FNT. Otherwise, its a wash as to whether there are any perceived savings over DTW, especially now that AirTran is flying from DTW.

That said, there are many airports within driving distance of each other that steal each other's traffic. Including passengers that will always end up driving to DTW no matter what.

BEH (Benton Harbor is done with commerical service, due to its proximity to other, larger airports (GRR, AZO, MKG, SBN) that effectively box-in its catchment area.
AA has limited resources in terms of available slots/movements from ORD, thus they feel there are better opportunities elsewhere. PLN has approached American to begin ERJ service over the past few years and been turned down.
 
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knope2001
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
Farmington Hills/Novi closer to FNT than DTW? I don't think so. People greatly exaggerate how DTW is an inconvience. In reality it is one of the most efficient large airports in the country to get in and out of

I didn't say Farmington Hills and Novi were closer to Flint than Detroit. Here it is again::

"Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW."

I speak from personal experience because I use FNT 80% of the time when I'm going to those places. With no checked luggage and Avis Preferred service, I'm usually getting on US-23 about ten minutes after the door of the aircraft opens. Done it in as few as 8 minutes. A huge airport like Detroit simply can't come close to that. Add to this the difference in freeway congestion at peak times, and FNT is not an unreasonable option.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15):
Even then, only if you are flying to one of the nonstop destinations from FNT. Otherwise, its a wash as to whether there are any perceived savings over DTW, especially now that AirTran is flying from DTW.

Definitely true that Flint will probably always have a very short list of nonstop destinations, and a connection out of Flint versus a nonstop out of Detroit isn't going to get anybody from someplace like Novi to head to FNT.

I'm sure that the large majority of traffic from fast-growing Oakland County will probably always go to DTW rather than FNT. But from the perspective of Flint, the minority of Oakland County traffic using FNT is a big boost and is largely responsiblity for the rapid growth there in the past decade or so.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:39 am

Mark my words... my crystal ball says:

  • AA will never serve LAN again in the next 10 years unless NW goes under or pulls out of LAN. UAX has ORD already covered.

  • B6 will never serve LAN. My bet is on DTW and/or FNT. GRR needs to sharpen their pencil if they want to woo B6.

  • LAN will never see nonstop service to BOS, LGA, JFK, etc. in the near future unless another upstart tries it with 6-7 flights per day, in which case NW will respond by starting their own flights. Then said upstart pulls out of LAN because of financial difficulties and a very low yielding route. NW then abandons route. (remember Indy Air?...)


I grew up in Okemos. We always drove to DTW for flights, and that was before FNT was an option. Half an hour drive to LAN, or an hour and a half or less to DTW. More options and much better fares at the time.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 14):
Because after 10 or so years, flying NW/DL Connection out of LAN gets old and I don't really want to drive to FNT

Also... how long you been drivin'? Your profile says you're 16-20.....  Wink
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jacobin777
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
I grew up in Okemos

My uncle lives in Okemos...small world it is!
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 8):
What's not a wash is the relative position for LAN and FNT to serve well-off suburban Detroit residents and businesses. To the north/northwest of metropolitan Detroit is Flint. To the west/southwest of metropolitan Detroit is Lansing...and Detroit Metro Airport. Were Detroit's main airport on a different side of town, Lansing could siphon off a lot of traffic from the west/southwest part of greater Detroit and Ann Arbor. Instead, DTW's location siphons some traffic that might rightfully belongs to Lansing.

Or if Lansing's airport were on the southeast corner of Lansing rather than the northwest it could also capture some of that Urban sprawl from places such as South Lyon, Milford, Brighton and Howell that may wish to use LAN instead of DTW. I-96, 275 in the afternoon is a nightmare for those people to get to DTW. I am sure I-94 between Ann Arbor and DTW isn't much better either.

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 10):
think some airlins should start serving benton harbor again. Reasons for this near south beend and chicago. Near detroit grand rapids and lansing. Cheap to fly in. Whirlpool headquarters. Ad the tourist spot of st joseph. Northwest use to make daily flights from detorit to benton harbor. I think It is a great airport ready for bussines

Never will happen. They are lucky they have Mesaba service as is and I think that is due to Whirlpool. Although St. Joseph is nice, I don't think it is big enough to support regular additional airline service except maybe seasonal. Who wants to go to St. Joseph from Oct - April with the lake effect snows?

Also, for the rich tourists in St. Joseph, I think a lot of them aren't crazy about driving through "the city on the other side of the river" Benton Harbor. The main road between St. Joseph and the airport takes you through parts of Benton Harbor that looks like some of the worst areas of Detroit. Again I think it was perhaps a bad location for the airport. Had it been built closer to I-94 or I-196 or at least south of St. Joseph there would have been potential for additional service.
 
SJUSXM
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
They are lucky they have Mesaba service as is

I believe they just pulled out of BEH
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting SJUSXM (Reply 20):
believe they just pulled out of BEH

I take that back. BEH WAS lucky it had Mesaba service as long as it did.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:06 am

Not many people know that there were two big infrastructure projects proposed in the 1970s that would have changed the catchment areas of FNT and AZO significantly.

The first project was an extension of I-275 from its current end at I-96/I-696 north, to meet I-75 in Clarkston. I-275 would have followed Haggerty Road north, then veered west through Commerce Township. Northwestern Highway would have also been made limited access, and extended northwest from its termination at 14 Mile Road and Orchard Lake, to meet the extended I-275.

If this freeway had been built (it was cancelled in 1976), it would have made FNT much easier to get to from West Bloomfield and Waterford, because residents of these cities headed for FNT wouldn't have had to go west to US-23, or east to I-75, to get to FNT.

The second project was a planned West Michigan regional airport, which would have been built between AZO and Battle Creek, replacing both cities' airports. This proposal was made when North Central still flew to Battle Creek, on their Chicago-South Bend-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek-Jackson-Detroit route. By combining the two cities' airports, planners hoped to have one airport covering both cities, instead of having two airports competing for passengers.

The airport was never built, North Central suspended Battle Creek after deregulation, and now many passengers from the east side of Battle Creek, or Marshall, find it's almost as easy to drive to Lansing, or Detroit, instead of driving to Kalamazoo.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 16):
"Even places like Novi and Farmington Hills are within Flint's reach because of less road congestion and the comparative ease of negotiating FNT versus DTW."

Someone needs a geography lesson..Novi and and Farmington Hills to Flint is a nightmare commute.

It's a 20 min drive on 275 from Novi and F.H. to DTW, Flint on the other hand would be closer to an hour, with no traffic!
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
how long you been drivin'?

Who said anything about driving, the topic is about FLYING out of Lansing, so what if I am in that age group, that has nothing to do with it.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
2H4
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:51 am




Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
I am sure I-94 between Ann Arbor and DTW isn't much better either.

Rest assured, it isn't. 94 is awful all the way to AZO, thanks mostly to semi trucks that pass each other at 1 or 2 mph closing speeds and clog the freeway behind them.



2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
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knope2001
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 23):
Someone needs a geography lesson..Novi and and Farmington Hills to Flint is a nightmare commute.

It's a 20 min drive on 275 from Novi and F.H. to DTW, Flint on the other hand would be closer to an hour, with no traffic!

I don't need a geography lesson. I have several clients in that part of metro Detroit and use both FNT and DTW. I'm quite familiar with the geography, thank you.

And for those unfamiliar with the area, from yahoo maps:

Novi to DTW 26.7 miles
Novi to FNT 48.0 miles

But it ain't about geography, it's about time. Timewise, FNT is not an unreasonable alternative to DTW fto/rom places like Novi in spite of Flint being quite a few miles futher away. That's because:

(a) Twenty minutes Novi to DTW? I've spent more than 45 minutes getting from Farmington Hills to DTW at rush sitting on 275. Several times. In clear weather. Driving up to FNT, however, is a pretty reliable 50 minute drive give or take a little, even at rush.

(b) The time between airplane and highway is far shorter in Flint than in Detroit. Personally, with online check-in and carry-on bags, I can be going through security at FNT about the same time I'm sitting on the rental car shuttle at DTW.

Of course DTW is closer than FNT. And in low-traffic hours DTW is quicker to get to. But in terms of time and hassle, FNT is indeed competitive with DTW for NW suburban Detroit.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 26):
Of course DTW is closer than FNT. And in low-traffic hours DTW is quicker to get to. But in terms of time and hassle, FNT is indeed competitive with DTW for NW suburban Detroit.

Perhaps from Bloomfield Hills, Macomb or Troy, but not from Novi....I live in Northville and am at DTW every week...

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 26):
) Twenty minutes Novi to DTW? I've spent more than 45 minutes getting from Farmington Hills to DTW at rush sitting on 275. Several times. In clear weather. Driving up to FNT, however, is a pretty reliable 50 minute drive give or take a little, even at rush.

No way getting from Novi to Flint at rush hour is quicker then to DTW.

Getting on 696 to 96 to 23 would be a nightmare....I see it everyday.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 26):
Twenty minutes Novi to DTW?

Just did it this morning.



But, hey, if you want to drive to Flint...more power to ya!
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knope2001
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 27):

No way getting from Novi to Flint at rush hour is quicker then to DTW.

Getting on 696 to 96 to 23 would be a nightmare....I see it everyday

If you're getting on 696 at rush hour to go from Novi to Flint, no wonder you say what you say.

Also, please tell me where I ever said that it was quicker to get from Novi to Flint than to Detroit. I have said "competitive", "within Flint's reach", and similar. And that competitiveness *includes the comparative difference in rental car time and other things which take a lot longer at DTW*.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 27):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 26):
Twenty minutes Novi to DTW?

Just did it this morning.

Your message was posted at 7:24am Eastern time. What time this morning were you actually on 275? And how is it in the afternoon?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:44 pm

Knope, you are talking about a different thing, you are throwing in the rental car process, which I agree may take longer at DTW.

However, for local passengers who do not rent cars, as I can go from plane to car in under 10 minutes in many situations at DTW. Same for when I arrive at the airport to fly out of down.

I think we are debating nothing here, lets face it, traffic is bad everywhere in the Detroit area in the afternoon rush hour. I-75 NB through Oakland county, from Troy up through Clarkston is bad news at that time, same as the whole 696/96 corridor all the way out to Brighton. No matter where you are going at that time, you will have to allow extra time.

The big issue is that FNT is only competitive when you are going to one of the nonstop destinations or if you were going to have to connect through one of the other hubs in the first place.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 28):
Your message was posted at 7:24am Eastern time. What time this morning were you actually on 275? And how is it in the afternoon?

Look, I live in Northville, and am at DTW every week, I make the trip in 20-25 min. Even during peak periods, it never takes me more then 30 mins. tops.

I droped off the "other half" at 6:20 and was home well before 7.

Departs: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW) at 7:15AM
Arrives: Cincinnati & North Kentucky Int'l, OH (CVG) at 8:33AM
Class of Service: First Class (P) Seat: 02-D
Flight Duration: 1 hour 18 minutes Miles: 240
Meal Service: None Aircraft: Avro Aerospace Regional Jet RJ-85
Note: *Operated by MESABA AVIATION JET SERV/NW AIRLINK

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 28):
If you're getting on 696 at rush hour to go from Novi to Flint, no wonder you say what you say.

Ok, how else are you doing it?


Now, I don't deal w/ rental cars and such, and we are both Platinum Elite on NW so we never have to wait at security so we don't feel hassled at all at DTW.
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knope2001
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 30):
Look, I live in Northville, and am at DTW every week, I make the trip in 20-25 min. Even during peak periods, it never takes me more then 30 mins. tops.

You know I don't think we really disagree that greatly. Depending on where you exactly are in Northville, 20-30 minutes to the airport sounds reliably reasonable to me. I have a client right in downtown Northville, and when I use Flint it's usually about 60 minutes from door to door. Driving to DTW is definitely less time than that from there. Because I'm always renting a car and don't check bags, the difference in rental car processing time is significant to me. When you drop someone off like your better half this morning, that's not at all relevant to you and your experience.



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 30):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 28):
If you're getting on 696 at rush hour to go from Novi to Flint, no wonder you say what you say.

Ok, how else are you doing it?

696 is sure ugly that direction in the afternoon and I avoid it if possible. I usually get on at Grand River / M-5 or at Novi road if I'm in Novi. Certainly busy, but not a huge delay. (I have never happened to be in the area getting on at Novi Road at PM rush during peak Christmas shopping time, so I don't know how bad traffic is around the mall then...might be very ugly.)

Anyway, I think this topic may have drifted a little bit and that could be part of the conflict. Earlier some posts went in the general direction of "why would FNT have more service than LAN since Flint is just a bunch of empty factories. I tried to point out that FNT served as good alternate to DTW for places like Pontiac, Bloomfield Hills and Troy, and wasn't an unreasonable choice for places like Novi and Farmington Hills. I did conceed that when flying FNT meant a connection, the attractivness of choosing it over DTW dropped greatly.

But I didn't mean to suggest that...

(a) Novi and Farmington Hills are closer to FNT than DTW.
(b) People in Novi and Farmington Hills mostly chose FNT over DTW (I'm sure the opposite is true.)
(c) Rental car processing differences are irrelevant in time comparisons (they are...and if you're originating in the Detroit area, then this Flint-favoring factor doesn't matter to you.)

I think we'd both agree that these point are not true and I didn't mean to iply otherwise.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
AA will never serve LAN again in the next 10 years unless NW goes under or pulls out of LAN. UAX has ORD already covered.

Keep the wallet in your pocket. Let me make a couple of calls and I will clear up your crystal ball a little.
Give a day or so on this....

As Arnold said....."I'LL be back".
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 32):
Keep the wallet in your pocket. Let me make a couple of calls and I will clear up your crystal ball a little.
Give a day or so on this....

As Arnold said....."I'LL be back".

While you're at it safe...can you check and see if TOL-DFW is coming back too??  Wink Would love to hear what your crystal ball is saying  Smile
 
AirCop
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:39 am

Call me crazy, but I believe service to LAN would work out. American Eagle already has a maintence facility at Marquette, instead of routing one of the morning flights to Madison, why not have a flight from MQT (the capital of the UP) to LAN (capital of Michigan) then continues onto to ORD?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:11 pm

Are there still a few junked-out American Eagles Saabs rotting away in LAN still? I know there were a few being parted out/stored/non-airworthy up there a few years ago.

Anyways, I just don't see American Eagle starting LAN just because how limited they are on space at ORD. It took them forever to come back to FNT, a much more viable option than LAN. In fact, I see a route like CRW-ORD ahead of LAN.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 31):
But I didn't mean to suggest that...

(a) Novi and Farmington Hills are closer to FNT than DTW.
(b) People in Novi and Farmington Hills mostly chose FNT over DTW (I'm sure the opposite is true.)
(c) Rental car processing differences are irrelevant in time comparisons (they are...and if you're originating in the Detroit area, then this Flint-favoring factor doesn't matter to you.)

I think we'd both agree that these point are not true and I didn't mean to iply otherwise

Ummm yeah, because I lived in Livonia about two miles from the Novi and Farmington Hills border and it was definitely quicker to DTW than FNT. Had they built I-275 through to I-75 north like the plans back in the 1970s, it might be considered, but that will never happen.
 
N723GW
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 17):
Tjwgrr From United States, joined Mar 2000, 1005 posts, RR: 1

Hey TJ, long time no see. LAN isn't that great one way or another...YX completly pulled out of there, they were struggling to get more then 5 people on a BE1.

AE used to serve MKG, but due to the growth of GRR, they pulled out. People can goto GRR and fly nonstop to DFW,ORD and LGA. But, when AE served MKG it was only with the Saabs.

AE grew in TVC over the last year, adding a DFW and LGA flight along with the ORD runs. DTW gets mainline AA, as well as AE IIRC.

I think most people fail to realise that the most populated area of Michigan is along the I96 corridor, so the West side of the state uses GRR, the East side uses DTW, and if you happen to be in the middle, one way or the other, you have the option of checking out LAN, but a 60-90 minute drive could save you $$$ and time.

Also, like it was stated earlier, it is all about politics. For example, AE has had the LGA flight from GRR for little over a year, so what does NWA do? Put in a GRR-LGA flight. I just don't see that making anymore sense, seeing as how Coex also operates GRR-EWR.

We all know NWA would 3 or 4 up any Michigan route AA would throw in...for example, if AA would launch GRR-LGA with a MD...there would be 4 n/s to LGA and 3 BOS from NWA...lol
 duck 
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777ER
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 2):
hint........the magic word here is Politics

How would politics come in this when Lansing is the capital of MI?

When I visited Lansing, I found it a nice city, but I only went to the base ball stadium for a concert and was only there for about 4 hours. Its true what MI residents say about their weather seasons, winter and Construction season as there was just road works after road works after roadworks on heaps of the roads I travelled on
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting N723GW (Reply 37):
Also, like it was stated earlier, it is all about politics. For example, AE has had the LGA flight from GRR for little over a year, so what does NWA do? Put in a GRR-LGA flight. I just don't see that making anymore sense, seeing as how Coex also operates GRR-EWR.

I disagree with this comment, since when AirTran would announce new routes from FNT, NW would copy them within a day. NW didn't feel threatened by this action by AA. NW is the largest carrier at GRR, and with their heartland focus it makes sense for them to offer GRR-LGA along with other non-hub routes they fly from GRR, like DCA and seasonal MCO, TPA.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 38):
How would politics come in this when Lansing is the capital of MI?

Your learning.
Greasing pockets has quite a bit to do with it. Lansing has a deal with DL that if the LAN-ATL doesn't make money, LAN will reimburse DL up to one million dollars.
Its a wait and see but now reports are showing that DL is making a profit on the route now.
LAN is leery on making a similar deal with AA/AE. AE has hinted that they may offer service back to LAN if "a deal is discussed".
So say my AA/AE folks.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
MichiganMAN
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:51 pm

I live in Sterling Hts, the suburb next to Troy.

DTW all the way for me.
I-75 south to I-94.

and if I lived in Novi Or Farmington Hills, there is no direct highway to FNT like there is DTW so even with empty roads I can't see it being any easier. Granted 275 is a mare of a road............but still..........I don't think the general people of Novi, Wixom, et al would consider flying from Flint.
UK -> USA
 
AIR757200
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 41):
I don't think the general people of Novi, Wixom, et al would consider flying from Flint.

Here are some numbers:

When I lived in Farmington Hills, I would simply take Merriman Rd to DTW and it took about 30 mins (19 miles), compare that to FNT, 56.37 miles. ((+/- 5 miles depending on where you lived in FH)).

Now, I live directly half-way between FNT and DTW (DTW 38.64 miles (~50 mins), FNT 37.24 miles). So my drive to work at DTW every day really adds miles to my car!

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 40):
AE has hinted that they may offer service back to LAN if "a deal is discussed".

Based on what I've heard many years ago; there was a big disagreement over gate leasing prices and LAN would not negotiate "reasonable" terms, therefore AE completely withdrew out of LAN.


Sidebar..for all you Michigan folks (I don't want to start a new thread): Did anyone notice the new, I'm assuming ILS landing/approach lights at Livingston Co. Airport (Burkhart/Grandriver Ave)?? One night I was driving to a friends and there it was, all lit up and the 'approach strobes' on too! Must of been installed within the past six months or so?
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting MichiganMAN (Reply 41):
and if I lived in Novi Or Farmington Hills, there is no direct highway to FNT like there is DTW so even with empty roads I can't see it being any easier. Granted 275 is a mare of a road............but still..........I don't think the general people of Novi, Wixom, et al would consider flying from Flint.

Especially if you live in South Farmington Hills or Novi and try to go through that I-275, I-696, I-96, M-5 Clusterf**k that is really bad in the afternoon, and all the way down I-96 west to U.S. 23, which is the main highway to Flint.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting AIR757200 (Reply 42):
Sidebar..for all you Michigan folks (I don't want to start a new thread): Did anyone notice the new, I'm assuming ILS landing/approach lights at Livingston Co. Airport (Burkhart/Grandriver Ave)?? One night I was driving to a friends and there it was, all lit up and the 'approach strobes' on too! Must of been installed within the past six months or so?

So far, airnav.com isn't showing an ILS approach. Maybe they just installed it and it isn't live yet (except the approach lighting). I'll keep an eye on it.
 
MichiganMAN
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:56 pm

The closest airport with regular scheduled service to some parts of Detroit is probably Windsor is it not?
UK -> USA
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting AIR757200 (Reply 42):
'approach strobes'

REILs (Runway End Identifier Lights)
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
AIR757200
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 46):
REILs (Runway End Identifier Lights)

Wouldn't those be right at the end of the runway? I went to airnav and looked up DTW lighting system, and I'm assuming its: "approach lighting system with runway alignment indicator lights".. really isn't my area of knowledge.

[Edited 2006-10-20 16:31:27]
 
N723GW
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 39):
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States, joined Jan 2002, 2948 posts, RR: 14
Reply 39, posted Fri Oct 20 2006 12:51:38 UTC (2 days 6 hours 49 minutes ago) and read 226 times:

Quoting N723GW (Reply 37):
Also, like it was stated earlier, it is all about politics. For example, AE has had the LGA flight from GRR for little over a year, so what does NWA do? Put in a GRR-LGA flight. I just don't see that making anymore sense, seeing as how Coex also operates GRR-EWR.

I disagree with this comment, since when AirTran would announce new routes from FNT, NW would copy them within a day. NW didn't feel threatened by this action by AA. NW is the largest carrier at GRR, and with their heartland focus it makes sense for them to offer GRR-LGA along with other non-hub routes they fly from GRR, like DCA and seasonal MCO, TPA.

FL announced FNT-LAS, and FLL or TPA ( I can't remember) and NW had it covered within a month.
I am just saying NWA is very protective of MI. And I know that NW is GRR's largest carrier, and that is why WN isn't there. At one time, WN said they would come to GRR only if they had 60% of all flight ops. Airport said no, they said goodbye.
The dude abides
 
hjulicher
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RE: American Airlines In Michigan

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:58 am

I think that this is one of the most idiotic threads that I've read in a long time. Who cares which airport is more convenient/closer. It all depends on where you are trying to fly to, and in all, I think that DTW is meant to servce Detroit and it's environs, and I think FNT, it meant to serve Genesee and maybe Saginaw area (despite them having a flight to DTW). I live in Bloomfield Hills, and I never go to flint to take a flight. It's not more convenient than DTW, and since I'm a loyal NW, it would be pointless to go to Flint to get anywhere. However, we did have out of town guests visit us, and they flew out of flint, but that was because they were flying Airtran and at that time, they didn't serve DTW.

I think that AA serving LAN (forum topic) is not idiotic, only this nonsense about FNT vs. DTW.
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