FLALEFTY
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Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:53 am

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...omm_story.jsp?id=news/DAL10176.xml

The article also notes that DL is working to get their remaining fleet of non-ER 767-300s, ETOPs rated.
 
dalb777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Thread starter):
Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

The 757s from AA is old news, but thanks for the article, interesting read. This is the first I have heard of some non-ER 763s getting ETOPS rated. And more 764s to international destinations!
Geaux Tigers! Geaux Hornets! Geaux Saints! WHO DAT!!!
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Dalb777 (Reply 1):
The 757s from AA is old news, but thanks for the article, interesting read. This is the first I have heard of some non-ER 763s getting ETOPS rated. And more 764s to international destinations!

While it is nice to have more 767-400ERs on international destinations, I hope that Delta doesn't completely elimnate them from West Coast/SLC-HNL flying. The 767-400ER is a much nicer aircraft than the 767-300, thanks to its Boeing Signature Interior. Even though some of the 767-300s have the newly-refurbished interior, the overhead bins still look outdated. The only Hawaii routes that the non-ER 767-300s cannot fly are ATL-HNL and CVG-HNL. The last time I flew on the 767-400ER was last summer on SLC-ATL. This could perhaps be my last domestic flight on a 767-400ER.

[Edited 2006-10-17 22:10:30]
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:16 am

DL does have 4 763s that are equipped w/ PW 4060s but are minus a fuel tank that could make them ERs.

It is probably more likely than not that if DL's int'l expansion continues to do well that DL will convert those 4 763s to ER and use them for east-coast to Hawaii flights.

Right now, DL still has 13 764s beyond the initial 8 conversions for next summer to deploy on top of the 757s that are coming. DL still has a huge amount of int'l expansion potential left based on its fleet.
 
positiverate
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
The 767-400ER is a much nicer aircraft than the 767-300, thanks to its Boeing Signature Interior.

I agree about the interior (especially the overheads) but the seats in F (the non BizElite configured -400's) are uncomfortable I think.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:24 am

HAL aquired 3 ex DL 763 non ER a/c. They use them on destinations to the West coast.

DL could easily convert 6 or 8 763 to ER status and upgrade them to ETOPS standards making them 763ER.

In my opinion, DL will probaly convert all of its 763 a/c to ETOPS standard and convert most to ER status. Thats my guess b/c DL needs more 767's to expand and this is where they're going to get them from.

MCOflyer
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worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:34 am

There is a difference between ER and ETOPS. ER means it has about 50K more take-off weight and higher engines, meaning they can fly flights out to 12 hrs. DL is not going to do this to its current domestic 763s. ETOPS means the aircraft can fly extended over water flights (or w/o a suitable alternate which doesn't have to mean overwater but usually it does). DL may do that to a number of 763s but there is no need to do that to all of its 763s unless it is a pretty low cost upgrade to facilitate fleet rotation and maintenance. DL will use the majority of its 763 fleet over land within N. America which doesn't require being ETOPS or ER.

DL doesn't need its whole 767 fleet as ERs. They did say in their int'l announcements last week that JFK-SNN next summer would be operated with a 763 ETOPS conversion (not ER).
 
bucky707
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:42 am

article mentions some older 757s will be retire in the next few years. Wonder if they will end up with purple tails?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 7):
article mentions some older 757s will be retire in the next few years. Wonder if they will end up with purple tails?

Yesir. Very good pick up. We are talking to AA about getting 757s. Here's to hoping.  bouncy 
 
svenvdm
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:49 am

Unfortunately I can't provide a source but I once read ages ago that airlines like to do ETOPS maintenance even though it is not required because it increases reliability of the aircraft and thus dispatch rates.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 3):
Right now, DL still has 13 764s beyond the initial 8 conversions for next summer

The number of 764s being used for international I think has been confusingly reported in multiple places so far. In the above link from the thread starter, it states that by summer 2007, another 7 764s will be moved to international service and by then, Delta would have "moved 20 767-400s to international flying since early 2006". 20 is clearly incorrect as they only have 21 764s.

The following press release from Delta announcing the new OTP/PSA/ICN/DXB/VIE/PRG flights states that by next summer, another 7 764s would be transitioned to international, "bringing to 20 the number of aircraft moved from domestic to international flying since spring 2006".

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10411

This means that by summer 2007, there will be 12 764s flying international (since the 20 includes 8 domestic 763ERs already converted this past summer); there were 5 764s flying ATL-LGW/SNN/FCO and JFK-Ireland/MAN this past summer.

What's not clear is whether all 12 will be converted to international configuration by then - I doubt that as DL will probably have a few domestic 764s plying international again next summer (like ATL-LGW and ATL-FCO).

So by early 2008, the international-capable fleet will look like this:

8 777-200ER
2 777-200LR
59 763-300ER
???? 763-300 (formerly domestic non-ER)
12 767-400ER
10 757-200ER

That's at least 20 additional frames from summer 2006 - that's a lot more international flying they could be adding in the summer of 2008!
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:54 am

Checking the production list for the non-ER 763s for DL, they range in age from 18 to 20 years. Those are pretty old frames for ER upgrades, since they will probably be nearing retirement age in the next 5 to 7 years.

Simply getting ETOPS certs (which is largely procedural, training and maintenance-oriented) for the existing fleet would make them good to go from most of DL's Western European routes out of JFK, as well as from SLC to HNL.
 
bucky707
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
10 757-200ER

Keep in mind Delta still has four 757s that came from ATA, which were also for ER aircraft. They still have the HMG, though it has been deactivated. I see no reason Delta could not convert these back to ETOPs configuration.
 
NikonDFW
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 11):
Simply getting ETOPS certs (which is largely procedural, training and maintenance-oriented) for the existing fleet would make them good to go from most of DL's Western European routes out of JFK, as well as from SLC to HNL

One thing to keep in mind is that DL's nonER 767-332's all have the smaller front cargo door, which limits the size of cargo that can be loaded onto these planes. Not being able to carry large cargo pallets may prove difficult on long thin passanger routes where freight can offset lower passanger yields.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:53 am

No wonder Delta announced a lot of international destinations lately!

I dont mean to change the subject but are there any 767's with PTV's in economy or are they too old to have had from the begining?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 14):
I dont mean to change the subject but are there any 767's with PTV's in economy or are they too old to have had from the begining?

On the domestic 767-300s, Delta is installing the Song IFE. Delta is also installing PTVs on the international 767-400ERs, but not on the international 767-300ERs.

BTW, most of the non-ER 767-300 fleet is powered by GE CF6-80A engines, which means that a conversion to a 767-300ER would require new engines, and I don't think Delta would spend the money on new engines.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:14 am

Compared to CO and UA, DL offers a lazy economy product. I hope PTV's get installed by 2008 on the 764ER fleet.

MCOflyer
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worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:36 am

DL is converting 8 764s to Business Elite configs for summer 2007. I presume they are saying 7 because 1 will be held for maintenance and a spare.

DL used approx 5 764s in domestic first/coach config on transatlantic routes in 2006 and have said they will use another 4-5 for 2007. I do not consider those as int'l aircraft because they spend the majority of the year on the domestic system. There are still 13 764s that could be converted after the first batch of 8.

The 763s are not intended to become heavily used on transatlantic use. At best, they would be used for JFK to Ireland and the UK and only to provide add'l capacity during the summer... just like the 764s do for continental Europe. The non-ER 763s don't have the range to do much of Europe and probably are not useable from ATL or CVG.

They do have smaller cargo doors but the intention is for them to provide SUPPLEMENTAL capacity during the summer when loads are high. Other flights already have ER aircraft with large cargo doors.

The nonER 763s also have early model CF6 engines so they are not ideal for heavy flights... again they will provide extra lift during the summer. I would guess no more than 2-3 of these aircraft will be used on the transatlantic system.

The 757s will provide a significant amount of add'l capacity in 2008, some of which could replace some 763ERs, freeing them up for longer haul use. So, yes, DL has only deployed about half of its deployable int'l fleet and will likely have a large int'l expansion in 2008. (like 2006 and 7 have not been LARGE). It remains to be seen how many 764s DL will convert for 08 but the success of the 07 expansion probably will dictate how many more 764s will be converted. Personally, I think DL's 07 summer expansion has less risk than the 06 expansion did so I fully expect to keep seeing the 767s move from domestic to int'l.
 
usair320
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 16):
Compared to CO and UA,

Cant forget US and NW with there A330 AVOD.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 10):
10 757-200ER

DL has also made it known that some of these 752s will go to revive SLC-KOA as well as perhaps LAX or SFO-KOA and SLC-OGG. While the majority of them will go to NYC-JFK to lesser yield yet profitable European stops, getting the most efficient service to the Hawaiian Islands from SLC and the west coast is a priority for these aircraft as well for DL.

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 11):
Simply getting ETOPS certs (which is largely procedural, training and maintenance-oriented) for the existing fleet would make them good to go from most of DL's Western European routes out of JFK, as well as from SLC to HNL.

I think SLC-HNL will stay on a 763 or 764 unless they get more 752s which would mean a frequency increase if they did use any 752s on SLC-HNL.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
aero0729
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
The last time I flew on the 767-400ER was last summer on SLC-ATL. This could perhaps be my last domestic flight on a 767-400ER.

Delta is only converting 7 of over 20 767-400er. i am guessing they will keep many high-capacity domestic routes 767-400er routes, especially ATL-SLC-HNL.
 
RutherfordAir
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:44 pm

Finally a smart move by Delta airlines! A nice airline indeed but a board room filled with butt-heads.
Archeologist of extinct Airlines
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting RutherfordAir (Reply 21):
Finally a smart move by Delta airlines! A nice airline indeed but a board room filled with butt-heads.

You obviously haven't followed DL in recent months, otherwise you wouldn't be posting such ignorant BS.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:11 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 8):
Yesir. Very good pick up. We are talking to AA about getting 757s. Here's to hoping.

I was thinking the same thing. Why help a competitor when you can do the 'safe' thing and sell them to a cargo carrier? Perhaps the deal between AA/DL was consumated before FedEx expressed an interest in the 757?

Chris in NH
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:50 pm

Does anyone think that Boeing is foaming at the mouth waiting for DL to exit bankruptcy? I mean DL typicallydoes a great job of upkeep on the a/c but the 763's are starting to get a bit long in the tooth and a very significant 787 order can't be more than 1-1/2 to 2 years away. By the tie DL places an order their slots would have to be somewhere around 2012-2014 i would think. That would put most of the 767 fleet at 20+ years in age. The 757's are far behind either.
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okie73
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 23):
Perhaps the deal between AA/DL was consumated before FedEx expressed an interest in the 757?

I am assuming you are talking about the 757s DL is getting that are currently flown by AA. That deal is not between AA and DL. The deal is between the owners of the aircraft (IFLC owns most of them I believe) and DL. No way would AA have sold these aircraft to Delta.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:10 pm

DL's 757s and 767s are far younger than 20 years. The average age of DL’s 763 (nonER) flet is 15 years. The 763ERs are on average 10 years old. And the 764s are 5 years old. None of those numbers argue for a huge fleet replacement program. The 763 nonERs will probably fly for another 5-10 years because neither DL nor any other US airline will spend money on a domestic widebody. It’s just not going to happen. If anything the older 76ERs will be converted back to domestic use late in their life to allow new generation aircraft to fly international routes. The 757s are less than 15 years old on average.
The only reason DL will not convert the remaining 764s will be if the int’l expansion stalls out – which doesn’t appear likely. The 764s are young enough they could serve 7-10 years in int’l service before they are not considered cost-effective to operate AND DL has replaced enough of the 763ERs (of which there are dozens to replace in addition to growing the int’l system with new capabilities the 787 would provide) before they start pulling 764s off the int’l system. I believe you will see the entire 764 fleet converted with the 763 (nonERs) the first to start leaving the fleet in 5 years or so. If you look at some of the bankruptcy documents DL has filed, the leases on the 763 (nonERs) are going out for 5+ years.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting RutherfordAir (Reply 21):
Finally a smart move by Delta airlines! A nice airline indeed but a board room filled with butt-heads.

That could be said during the dark ages of the reign of terror of Leo (Mullin), but nowadays, Grinstien, Whitehurst and Bastian have all made sure there are other strait-forward think people on the board and in DL management.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 24):
Does anyone think that Boeing is foaming at the mouth waiting for DL to exit bankruptcy? I mean DL typically does a great job of upkeep on the a/c but the 763s are starting to get a bit long in the tooth and a very significant 787 order can't be more than 1-1/2 to 2 years away. By the tie DL places an order their slots would have to be somewhere around 2012-2014 i would think. That would put most of the 767 fleet at 20+ years in age. The 757s are far behind either.

Absolutely! I think Boeing will do everything to keep DL in their court. They know that DL is free from the Douglas aircraft tradition and they want to keep them in the Boeing realm rather than toying with Airbus as NW and UA have done as well as some of the newer LCCs (B6, Frontier etc...).
I think DL will likely place an order for some 787s probably late next year or during 2008, and they still will have more options for 777s. The 787 is a natural replacement for the 763s, that have been such a workhorse for them and have allowed them to transform into such an international focus carrier. Part of the reason also for getting these former TWA 752s is that they are newer, being built between 1995 and 1999, and they can keep the 757 airframe going until Boeing has a suitable 752 replacement on line (it appears the 738 and 739 won't cut it for DL). While some will want to stone me for this   , I expect Delta to get rid of all of the MD-88s and MD-90s long before the last 752 gets put out to pasture in the years ahead.


[Edited 2006-10-18 16:19:19]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
okie73
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 27):
While some will want to stone me for this , I expect Delta to get rid of all of the MD-88s and MD-90s before the last 752 gets put out to pasture in the years ahead.

no stoning. You are right. The last 88/90 will be gone long before the 757.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 28):
no stoning. You are right. The last 88/90 will be gone long before the 757.

Aside from getting a 787 order in place that GRADUALLY replaces some older 763s, the MD-88/90 replacement will be DL's next critical fleet acquisition.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):
Aside from getting a 787 order in place that GRADUALLY replaces some older 763s, the MD-88/90 replacement will be DL's next critical fleet acquisition.

$50 on the 737RS as an MD and 757/738 replacement.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 30):
$50 on the 737RS as an MD and 757/738 replacement.

According to their website DL still has options/rolling options for 150 more 738s, which could be converted to the 737RS, but the MDs WILL BE the first to go.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
ScottB
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 27):
I expect Delta to get rid of all of the MD-88s and MD-90s long before the last 752 gets put out to pasture in the years ahead.

That's not shocking at all; the MD-90's are now the least numerous type in the fleet (aside from the indispensable 777-200ER's) while the MD-88 fleet's average age is higher than the 757 fleet's average. The 757 is far more unique in its capabilities than the MD-88 as well.

I suspect that additional domestic capacity provided by new 738 (or 739ER) deliveries from Boeing will become useful to Delta two or three years from now as the current fleet continues to be shifted into international flying. We're seeing this happen at Continental with new 738 and 739ER aircraft replacing the 752's which have been moved to transatlantic routes.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
The 757 is far more unique in its capabilities than the MD-88 as well.

Not just in capacity or range, but also keep in mind the MD-88 has limits in higher altitude locations out west like SLC. Only on occasion will you see an MD-88 replace an MD-90, and almost NEVER during the hottest summer months (mid June-mid August).
This will also complete a fleet paradigm shift for DL when this happens since Delta for a long time was strictly a Douglas aircraft shop, and Boeing has successfully kept them from ever doing much with Airbus except for a brief stint with the A310 from the late 1980s through the mid 1990s.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
RobertS975
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 33):
Not just in capacity or range, but also keep in mind the MD-88 has limits in higher altitude locations out west like SLC. Only on occasion will you see an MD-88 replace an MD-90, and almost NEVER during the hottest summer months (mid June-mid August).
This will also complete a fleet paradigm shift for DL when this happens since Delta for a long time was strictly a Douglas aircraft shop, and Boeing has successfully kept them from ever doing much with Airbus except for a brief stint with the A310 from the late 1980s through the mid 1990s.

I don't know about a paradigm shift since DL has been a heavy Boeing user since the 727 and that continued with the 757,767 and 737 (some inherited, but all the 737-800s bought). The Airbus type was leftover from Pan Am. DL never bought an AB product to my knowledge.
 
okie73
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 34):
DL never bought an AB product to my knowledge.

Delta did take delivery of some new A-310s that were orders Pan Am had made. But Delta never ordered an Airbus airplane.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:49 am

DL did in fact order replacement A310s for some of the crappiest A310s inherited from Pan Am. Airbus built I believe 7 of them for DL and they were much nicer but they still didn't have the range or costs to compete with the 763ER. DL built 30 day walkaway clauses on the 310s built for them specifically and exercised that clause. DL very much ordered and proceeded to walk away from Airbuses that were built for DL as an enticement by Airbus to hook DL longterm.

If the A332 were being built back then, DL could well have been talked into ordering it. Airbus did pitch the A330-300 to DL but DL deemed it to be too big - and also not as good on range as the 763.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 34):
I don't know about a paradigm shift since DL has been a heavy Boeing user since the 727 and that continued with the 757,767 and 737 (some inherited, but all the 737-800s bought). The Airbus type was leftover from Pan Am. DL never bought an AB product to my knowledge.

Keep in mind DL ordered the DC-8 and DC-9 instead of the Boeing 707 or 727 during the 1960s. They didn't get into the 727 until 1972 when they inherited some from Northeastern Airlines. Until the mid to late 1970s the phrase "Fly Delta Jets" and "DC-XX," "Douglas Aircraft" or "McDonnell/Douglas" were virtually synonymous. Keep in mind that their decision to go with the MD-11 was based largely upon this loyalty to Douglas aircraft as late as 1990.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
okie73
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 36):
DL did in fact order replacement A310s for some of the crappiest A310s inherited from Pan Am.

I was told that Delta converted some options left over from Pan Am, but never ordered any more. But I won't argue, cause my source is certainly no expert.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:28 am

The point is that DL did take new delivery of A310s from Airbus and they did in fact negotiate the terms of acquiring them. Airbus certainly didn't offer 30 day walkaway leases for Pan Am.

Delta ordered the MD11 because twins over the Pacific weren't a realistic option in the mid to late 80s. AA and DL both committed to the MD11 because they believed in the trijet and saw no need for anything bigger. When the 777 became a viable and accepted airplane for transpac flying, the MD11 and its fuel inefficiency were jettisoned.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 39):
Delta ordered the MD11 because twins over the Pacific weren't a realistic option in the mid to late 80s. AA and DL both committed to the MD11 because they believed in the trijet and saw no need for anything bigger. When the 777 became a viable and accepted airplane for transpac flying, the MD11 and its fuel inefficiency were jettisoned.

Both DL and AA knew the 777 was in development over at Boeing. In the case of both carriers it would have been better to wait it out and in the instance of DL, just use the Tri-Stars they had. But in DL's instance more than anything it was the tradition of using Douglas Aircraft that pushed Ronald W. Allen to go for the MD-11 more than anything as well as the MD-90. UA may have been the most prominent carrier for the 777 design team, but DL was VERY big in the MD-90 development.
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BOE773
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:41 am

It's great that Delta are adding more Pratt powered 57s to their existing fleet.

LOVE THOSE PRATTS.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:48 am

But the 777 and every other twin engine aircraft was not accepted as a viable option for flying over the Pacific. It's easy for you to say today that AA and DL should have waited for the 777 but there was no certainty that twins would become accepted over the Pacific. To sit around and wait for an airplane that might work makes no sense, esp. for AA whose first transpac flights were from DFW to NRT - well beyond the range of the DC10.

DL did in fact work closely with McD D o try to and create a very fuel efficient narrowbody aircraft - one that never was built but was to incorporate the unducted fan.

I think you make a bit too much of DL's relationship w/ Mc D D by the time the mid-80s came around. DL had become a major buyer of 727s, 757s, and 767s by that time.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 41):
LOVE THOSE PRATTS.

Not a huge pratt fan but they do look darn sexy on the 757!!!!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 42):
I think you make a bit too much of DL's relationship w/ Mc D D by the time the mid-80s came around. DL had become a major buyer of 727s, 757s, and 767s by that time.

To be fair, that was a point in time where no one manufacturer had a complete product line. In order to go all the way up and down the spectrum, you had to deal with two of the three big players.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 41):
It's great that Delta are adding more Pratt powered 57s to their existing fleet.

LOVE THOSE PRATTS.

I really do like the appearance of the DL P&W 752 vs. the RR powered birds both AA and your Canadian charter carrier Skyservice both use. Not long ago a DL 752 captain told me "You know there will be a whole lot of partyin' if you see one or more Skyservice 752s parked at PVR, SJD, CUN, PUJ or POP during the winter months!" biggrin   drunk   laughing 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 42):
I think you make a bit too much of DL's relationship w/ Mc D D by the time the mid-80s came around. DL had become a major buyer of 727s, 757s, and 767s by that time.

As well as Lockheed Tri-Stars. I merely point out that DL was very cozy with McDonnell/Douglas over a long part of their history, and it has only been over the last 20-25 years that DL has gotten away from Douglas starting to have a majority Boeing fleet. The merger with Northeastern in 1972 got them into the 727 and the merger with Western pushed them more in the Boeing direction still. The remaining MD-88/90 airframes in DL's fleet represent the last vestiges of the Delta/Douglas relationship. Once they are gone (by 2010 or so is my guess), McDD will no longer be present in what was once their most loyal carrier customer.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
okie73
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RE: Delta To Acquire Ex-TW 757s From AA

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 45):
Once they are gone (by 2010 or so is my guess), McDD will no longer be present in what was once their most loyal carrier customer.

There is no way Delta will be able to replace over 130 airframes by 2010.