corey07850
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Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:14 am

Searched and was surprised that no one posted this, but Piper unveiled their first ever jet aircraft today at NBAA 06 in Orlando... Production starts in 2010, but I wasn't able to get more info... Will get more tomorrow...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/corey07850/P1010097.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/corey07850/P1010098.jpg

Cessna also unveiled 3 new aircraft cabins... CJ4, a new XLS, and an awesome new widebody cabin aircraft... Here are a couple pics of the Citation Widebody... notice the cabin height in relation to the people inside.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/corey07850/P1010094.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/corey07850/P1010095.jpg
 
KELPkid
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:20 am

Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached  spin 
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beech19
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:21 am

Not a big fan of Pipers but this Jet is very intrigueing. Single engine in the tail from what it looks like? Very interesting...

Awesome to see Cessna going full strength into even more BJ markets.  Smile
I wonder if Cessna would ever build a High wing Citation? (since they are a high wing manufacturer for pistons)

LOVE the widebody!
KPAE via KBVY
 
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N328KF
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Corey07850 (Thread starter):
Searched and was surprised that no one posted this, but Piper unveiled their first ever jet aircraft today at NBAA 06 in Orlando... Production starts in 2010, but I wasn't able to get more info... Will get more tomorrow...

Let's not forget that Piper sells the HA-420 as well, so their dealer/service network now has two jet aircraft on offer.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
corey07850
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached spin

It actually looks more like a mini DC-10 with a single engine in person  Smile
 
jdl1527
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:34 am

Slap 2 engines on the fuselage and now were talking
 
flyf15
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:48 am

Anyone have a picture of the whole plane?
 
Dtw757
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:50 am

I like the looks of the Piper jet! It does look like a DC10 tail, I'd love to see on in person.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
beech19
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached

Thats because i'm sure it is. LOL
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AirTranTUS
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
Doesn't Piper's fuselage look suprisingly like a Malibu with a jet engine attached

If it's efficient, then it'll be great. The 6XT is still my favorite though.
I love ASO!
 
cannibalz3
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:02 pm

Further details can be found at

www.aero-news.net
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:25 pm

800 lbs of payload for the Piper? Is that normal for a 6 seat biz jet?
They're not handing trophies out today
 
flyf15
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:49 pm

 
captaink
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:58 pm

Hmm single engine jet? I am not so sure.

While I am not too technically inclined when it comes to the mechanics of aviation, jets being heavier that a single engine prop, what happens with engine failure?

Looks very intriguing though....
There is something special about planes....
 
pikachu
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:03 pm

Give the reliability of jet engines I guess Piper is willing to take the risk with a single. Big jets are heavy but keeping that in mind an A330 has a better engine out glide ratio than a C172.
 
captaink
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting Pikachu (Reply 14):
A330 has a better engine out glide ratio than a C172.

Yeah i have heard of the A330s, in fact isn't true that a A330 landed quite successfully without engine power?

I am sure Piper knows what they are doing... just my little concern.

BTW gotta love a.net. I went to Pipers site just check out more on this jet, and the only thing is that it will be unveiled at the NBAA show. Guess what, we (a.net) already been there done that.. Big grin

[Edited 2006-10-18 08:08:58]
There is something special about planes....
 
Devilfish
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Thread starter):
Cessna also unveiled 3 new aircraft cabins...

While having its Mustang proven as an "easy rider" and written-up in Flightglobal.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...t+Cessna+Mustang+-+Easy+rider.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...g+the+spot+The+cessna+Mustang.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:35 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 11):
800 lbs of payload for the Piper? Is that normal for a 6 seat biz jet?

Is that with full fuel? Because if it is, then it's at least 200 lbs more than many other small jets, which makes it very attractive for people wanting to take a good load with full fuel. 800 pounds is enough for nearly 4 people and their bags. Other light jets have a full fuel payload of about 600 pounds, which is about 3 people.

If the opposite is true, people plus fuel cannot exceed 800 pounds, then this jet is not very good IMO.

Shameless plug: My 400th post! Big grin
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rampart
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Captaink (Reply 13):
Hmm single engine jet? I am not so sure.

While I am not too technically inclined when it comes to the mechanics of aviation, jets being heavier that a single engine prop, what happens with engine failure?

Ask an F-16 pilot.

Or a Pilatus pilot, for that matter (OK, a turboprob, but turbine powered nonetheless). Seems OK for them.

Is a jet engine really heavier than a piston?

Interesting at any rate! Does the Piper count as one of those "VLJs"?

-Rampart
 
sllevin
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:56 pm

The Piper's going to focus heavily on owner-flown jets -- the shortest overall step up from the Meridian. So with one engine it will cost considerably less, probably be a bit slower (but easier to handle and easier to insure with less experienced pilots). So the 800 pounds with full fuel isn't bad -- it's roughly a 4 seater, same as the Malibu and Meridian.

Steve
 
727200er
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:38 pm

I really like the look of the piper Malibujet NP-10 LOL
It really does look good though. Hope they sell a bunch of 'em
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ksupilot
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:19 am

I like the look of the Malibujet as well. Like a Falcon 7X minus the two other engines. I hope it becomes popular.
 
doug_or
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 18):
Is a jet engine really heavier than a piston?

As far as LBS per SHP is concerned, a turboprop is much lighter than a piston. Jets are (and most modern turboprops) are much more aerodynamicly clean than single pistons. The reltaively dirty DHC-8-100 is supposed to be able to get 2.5 nm per 1,000 ft with both feathered (I think thats around 15:1). A swept wing might not do as well (not sure), but those wings look fairly straight.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:33 pm

You can add Raytheon to the list of announcements with the creation of the Hawker 900XP and Hawker 750 as successors to the Hawker 800XP. NetJets is the launch customer.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:51 pm

Quoting 727200er (Reply 20):
I really like the look of the piper Malibujet NP-10

Piper's teaser website reportedly suggests that the jet would be called "FREEDOM".

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 17):

Is that with full fuel? Because if it is, then it's at least 200 lbs more than many other small jets, which makes it very attractive for people wanting to take a good load with full fuel. 800 pounds is enough for nearly 4 people and their bags. Other light jets have a full fuel payload of about 600 pounds, which is about 3 people.

It is believed the Piper Jet will be powered by one Williams FJ44 engine. The Cessna CJ4 will use Williams' FJ44-4 with 3,600 lbs of thrust.

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 23):
You can add Raytheon to the list of announcements with the creation of the Hawker 900XP and Hawker 750 as successors to the Hawker 800XP.

With the advances in composite technology as used on the B787, I wonder if Raytheon could leave behind their unpleasant experience with the "2000" and be persuaded again to come up with a single-jet "STARSHIP" using Williams FJ33 and with broadly similar specs as the Cirrus. Aren't attempts to divest of RAC still fruitless?

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...er+reveal+single-engined+jets.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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N328KF
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 24):
Piper's teaser website reportedly suggests that the jet would be called "FREEDOM".

That would be a real disaster, since Spectrum Aeronautical has a competing offering already named "Freedom." As a coincidence, the Spectrum Freedom will use the GE Honda engine, and Piper will do sales/support/distribution for the HondaJet.

[Edited 2006-10-22 08:11:48]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
ksupilot
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:22 am

Will jets like the Piper-Jet and Cirrus' offering be for personal use, or do you think we will see them also enter the corporate jet market. If the speed is still pretty good on the Piper-Jet I'm sure it must cost less than a jet with two engines.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 25):
That would be a real disaster, since Spectrum Aeronautical has a competing offering already named "Freedom."

I wonder if Piper was late in copyrighting the name. But given that "Piper Jet" is already emblazoned on the engine, they would most likely stick with it. And speaking of disasters, what could be more disastrous than having a sole prototype crash, sadly taking the two pilots with it? Perhaps that explains the renaming from "33" to "Independence" - to avoid the stigma of the terrible accident.  Sad

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...Spectrum+enjoys+a+new+Freedom.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Cazito
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:53 am

 
L-188
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:08 pm

I am not sure about having the engine directly in back of all roof area.

At some point there will be antenna's will be mounted on it, and if they break off, or more likely, pick up ice that sheds off it is going right into that intake.

There is a reason why the entire roofline of the 727 is a critical surface for deicing purposes.
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CRJonBeez
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:42 pm

from what i've heard, piper and honda were going their separate ways. makes sense since piper was assisting honda in marketing/sales of the HA-420.

from the piper brochure...

Dimensions
33'9" long
16'6" tall
44'7" span

Performance
max cruise speed guaranteed: 360ktas (+5%/-2.5%)
full fuel load on standard equipped guaranteed: 800lbs (+/-5%)
max range guaranteed: 1,300nm (+/-5%)

Specs
6 seats guaranteed, 7 optional
optional lav, entertainment center, utility loading configs
auto throttle (optional)
engine trend monitoring
FADEC engine
FIKI (approved for Flight into Known Icing)
performance computer
RVSM certified

my guess for the flight deck would be avidyne, following in the steps of all their other glass cockpits
 
planemaker
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:14 pm

Quoting CRJonBeez (Reply 30):
my guess for the flight deck would be avidyne, following in the steps of all their other glass cockpits

The Mustang's is Garmin 1000.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:56 pm

I was at NBAA and spent about 20 minutes looking at this monstrousity. Crap range at a platinum price.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:04 pm

Single engine??? Amazes me I guess.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:32 pm

I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.

I think it is a very poor, non creative attempt by Piper.  Sad
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 34):
I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.

You mean, like this thing?  Wink


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Boeing Nut
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 35):
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 34):
I'm sorry, but IMO, Piper could have done a much better job than this. To me, the designers took a LEGO approach. Slap an engine on the tail, snap a few winglets on, pop off the old nose, pop a new one on.

You mean, like this thing?

No, like this thing.
 yuck 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
CRJonBeez
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 31):

The Mustang's is Garmin 1000.

the mustang is also built by cessna, who uses the G1000. avidyne is found in the piper products.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 32):
Crap range at a platinum price.

2.2 million isn't as bad as you make it out to be. the guarantees in performance, especially compared to the other VLJs can warrant the price, especially from piper. the largest payload in the class, along with longest range. 3rd fastest behind the Phenom 100 and Eclipse (380 and 370 respectably). 2.2 million will get you a used beechjet, which has a tried and true program, but used regardless. many buyers want new. cheaper operating costs never hurt either. i'm not predicting success with the program, just playing devil's advocate to your opinion.
 
CruzinAltitude
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RE: Piper/Cessna Unveil New Jets At Nbaa

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 32):
Crap range at a platinum price.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the BMW quality interior? The flight deck is b e a utiful.

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