manni
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:34 pm

http://www.aero-news.net/PlainPage.cfm

a part from the article,

The Airbus Commercial Jetliner (ACJ) is outselling its Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) counterpart two to one in the highly rarified world of business jets that are as big as an airliner. Boeing has sold ten this year but Airbus confirms selling twice that number. Goana hinted that he was hoping to bring that total up to 22 before the end of the NBAA convention.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe the 2 A318 Elite for Jet Alliance are the aircraft Mr. Goana is reffering to.




more from the article,

In what may be the most amazing revelation of all, Goana confirmed that he is in serious talks for an Airbus Corporate Jetliner that is just a little bigger than the A320 family. The often-delayed, giant superjumbo A380 is being considered as bizjet for what he would only say is a head of state. Further questioning only brought a sly smile.
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WINGS
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:42 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
http://www.aero-news.net/PlainPage.cfm

a part from the article,

The Airbus Commercial Jetliner (ACJ) is outselling its Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) counterpart two to one in the highly rarified world of business jets that are as big as an airliner. Boeing has sold ten this year but Airbus confirms selling twice that number. Goana hinted that he was hoping to bring that total up to 22 before the end of the NBAA convention.

Well Airbus should not be particularly proud at the moment when Boeing has sold 3 B748VIP and the B787VIP.

Airbus may be winning with NB VIP's, but it's a different looking matter with WB market for VIP transport where they are currently being slaughtered by Boeing.

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Wings
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
The often-delayed, giant superjumbo A380 is being considered as bizjet for what he would only say is a head of state. Further questioning only brought a sly smile

Did Leahey talk about a possible sale of a A380 to a private customer a while back - mentioning by year end (but that was before any delays were announced)
 
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PanAm_DC10
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
The Airbus Commercial Jetliner (ACJ) is outselling its Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) counterpart two to one

No sir I don't believe that to be the case as since launch;

Boeing have sold 116 BBJs/VIPS 111 NBs and 7 WBs of which 16 have been booked in 2006.

Outselling 2 to 1? PR Fluff and blah blah  Yeah sure

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
I believe the 2 A318 Elite for Jet Alliance are the aircraft Mr. Goana is reffering to.

No point in comapring one variant of the family by excluding the rest. Besides they had to to do something with the following frames from HP/ US, Tarom and IB. It was an astute move actually.

Here's how many total variants the Airbus A32X series CJs have been sold;

2006 sales 13 aircraft sold in the first half of 2006 ACJ Family sales Approximately 70 ACJs sold worldwide

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfam...lies/executive_aviation/index.html

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Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
The Airbus Commercial Jetliner (ACJ) is outselling its Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) counterpart two to one
No sir I don't believe that to be the case as since launch;

Boeing have sold 116 BBJs/VIPS 111 NBs and 7 WBs of which 16 have been booked in 2006.

Outselling 2 to 1? PR Fluff and blah blah

It works if you only look at the numbers for this single year  Wink .
 
manni
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
It works if you only look at the numbers for this single year

Yes indeed, this is clearly written in the article.

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
Boeing has sold ten this year but Airbus confirms selling twice that number.



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 3):
2006 sales 13 aircraft sold in the first half of 2006 ACJ Family sales Approximately 70 ACJs sold worldwide

Indeed, add to that 2 A318s yesterday, 4 corporate jetliners last month the corporate jet sold in august and whatever they sold in july (it escapes me for the moment) and a total of 22 Mr. Goana talked about could be correct.
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PanAm_DC10
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 5):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
Boeing has sold ten this year but Airbus confirms selling twice that number.

The 4 undisclosed A32X series booked in September may not all be for the CJ program as we both know that Airbus book undisclosed orders for carriers if the carrier so requests.

Airbus sold 1 A319CJ in July, as for the 22 Mr Goana refers to, he is including options, if not, he has reverted to last years sales figures and included options. As, IIRC, total A318 Elite commitments total 22. You have also forgotten that Boeing have 78 UFO 737s on the books. I can attest that some of these are BBJs so the numbers are not fully known. Back to fluff and blah blah  Wink

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WINGS
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 6):
Airbus sold 1 A319CJ in July, as for the 22 Mr Goana refers to, he is including options, if not, he has reverted to last years sales figures and included options. As, IIRC, total A318 Elite commitments total 22.

Hi PanAm_DC10, Well according to my numbers the A318 Elite has following firm orders, excluding options.


A318/A318 Elite Orders

Air France x 18
Comlux x 3 (Elite)
National Air Service x 2 (Elite)
Frontier x 9 (Direct from Airbus)
Gecas x 12 (all delivered and leased to Mexicana x 10 and Frontier x 2)
LAN Airlines x 20 (first with the PW6000)
US Airways x 15 (Interesting to see what happens)
Tarom x 4 (Interesting to see what happens)
Jet Alliance x 3 (Elite)
Private Customes x 6 (Elite)


Total A318 Orders: 92 frames. (Elite = 14 frames)
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manni
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 6):
The 4 undisclosed A32X series booked in September may not all be for the CJ program as we both know that Airbus book undisclosed orders for carriers if the carrier so requests.

http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/

"Airbus logged four new A320 Family orders from private customers in September"



In the article I posted is clearly written that Airbus has sold 20 aircraft of their corporate jet catalog, and might add soon another 2 (happened maybe hours after the article was posted). This is being confirmed by Mr. Goana Airbus' Corporate Jets sales person.

I'm going to go with Mr. Goana's words here, atleast as far as the Airbus part of the article is concerned. He might not be up to date with the BBJ orders, but he should know better than anyone else what the score is for Airbus. Unless... the writer of the article messed up Mr. Goana's words.
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:40 pm

Hi Wings

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Comlux x 3 (Elite)

Agree sir, 3 booked December 13, 2005, undisclosed.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
National Air Service x 2 (Elite)

Agree sir, booked May 2, 2006. 5 options remain.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Jet Alliance x 3 (Elite)

First one booked, June 16, 2006; plus 2 options confirmed today

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
Private Customes x 6 (Elite)

Booked as follows;

1 on June 6, 2005, Private Customer (An Austrian Company, IIRC) and;

5 on December, 14, 2005, these were announced at Dubai 2005.

So yes, 20 and that's how we get 22 referred to in the article if we include JetAlliance.

OTOH: Airbus has sold 1 x A330 VIP whilst Boeing have sold 3 x 748i x VVIP and 4 x 787 VVIPs

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Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
In the article I posted is clearly written that Airbus has sold 20 aircraft of their corporate jet catalog, and might add soon another 2 (happened maybe hours after the article was posted). This is being confirmed by Mr. Goana Airbus' Corporate Jets sales person.

You know Manni instead of being combative why don't you try to find a solution instead? I questioned the article and decised to do some reseach to calrify the anomoly in the report. It wasn't too hard. Look at the above post and you will find that every order is listed and brings the total to 22

Quoting Manni (Reply 8):
I'm going to go with Mr. Goana's words here, atleast as far as the Airbus part of the article is concerned.

That's fair, but look at the fluff and blah blah one has to go through to confirm the number.

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Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:19 pm

Frankly, this looks like an Airbus-paid PR article to spread some positive spin among the sea of bad news surrounding Airbus lately.
 
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 11):
this looks like an Airbus-paid PR article to spread some positive spin

As this is a thread on CJs, BBJS, VIPs & VVIPs which coincides with the NBAA airshow I have the following question.

Is Mr Goana really pleased? I mean look at what Boeing have announced at the same NBAA Show;

October 17 , 2006 – Boeing Business Jets announced it has won a total of 19 new airplane orders within the last 11 months. The announcement was made during the 2006 National Business Aviation Association (NBAA) Convention & Exhibition in Orlando. The orders, which are valued at $2.25 billion at list prices, include 10 BBJs, two BBJ 3s and a total of seven widebody airplanes. The widebody orders include one 787-8, three 787-9 and three 747-8 airplanes specifically designated for the VIP market. The VIP configured airplanes offer between 2,404 and 4,786 square feet of cabin space for private owners

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/bbj/html/index_html.html

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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:08 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
You know Manni instead of being combative

Not being combative at all. Just showing you that Airbus talked about private custmers in refference to last months sales.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
why don't you try to find a solution instead?

I picked up halfway trough the year, the Airbus pressrelease that sales totalled 13 at that time, added one in august, 4 in september and 2 in october. That's 20.
Forgot about july but looked it up and you confirmed, one sold in june. That's 21. One short of 22, perhaps this one hasn't been made public yet.
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
(Elite = 14 frames)



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
why don't you try to find a solution instead?



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
look at the fluff and blah blah one has to go through to confirm the number.



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 9):
So yes, 20 and that's how we get 22 referred to in the article if we include JetAlliance.

Wings number of 14 (not 20) refer to TOTAL sales of the A318E ONLY, while the article Manni linked to talks about the whole Corporate family sales in 2006 only.
Airbus has indeed sold 20 ACJ this year, but that's including the recent Jet Alliance order: The sales break down as follows
Czech Republic 9-mrt 2 A319CJ
Jet Alliance 16-mrt 1 A319CJ
JetAlliance 16-jun 1 A318E
JetAlliance 18-okt 2 A318E
National Air Services* 2-mei 2 A318E
Private Customer 14-apr 1 A319CJ
Private Customer 31-aug 1 A320P
Private Customer* 27-jan 1 A319CJ
Private Customer* 1-apr 1 A319CJ
Private Customer* 22-mei 1 A319CJ
Private Customer* 6-jun 1 A318E
Private Customer* 17-jul 1 A319CJ
Private Customer* 14-sep 1 A319CJ
Private Customer* 25-sep 1 A320P
Private Customer* 29-sep 2 A319CJ
Stumpf Group* 31-mei 1 A319CJ

That makes 6 A318E, 12 A319CJ and 2 A320P, and a 2006 up-to-date Total of 20. Has Airbus sold another two that haven't appeared on their monthly update yet? Or was Goana not talking about Jet Alliance?
Boeing has sold 9 BBJ this year (at least), so indeed THIS YEAR Airbus outsells Boeing 2:1.

[Edited 2006-10-18 16:25:24]
 
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 13):
that sales totalled 13 at that time

includes 1 A330 Prestige
 
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:37 pm

well, I guess Airbus is desperate from some positive press.
 
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 15):
includes 1 A330 Prestige

Indeed. Thanks for the extensive and detailed list in reply 14. Meanwhile the 2 'missing' ACJ's have been identified today as orders for Monaco based Boutsen Aviation (who has ordered them for customers who are not identified).
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:45 pm

Why the hell are we counting the A318-derived models here? While in theory, any BCA airframe is on offer through BBJ, it appears likely that the A318 Elite et. al. compete against smaller airframes (G550, etc...). Those sales really should be split out.
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Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:48 pm

Boutsen Aviation - wow, owned by Thierry Boutsen. SWEET! I remember when he helled Senna off in Hungary, what was that, 1989 or 1990, what a race.
 
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 11):
Frankly, this looks like an Airbus-paid PR article to spread some positive spin among the sea of bad news surrounding Airbus lately.

I see this as Boeing conceding the VIP Market to Airbus. They need to sell something to someone until the 350 comes on board in 2015, 16, 17 , 18 , 19, or 20.  duck 
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
US Airways x 15 (Interesting to see what happens)

A bit off topic, but weren't the US A318 orders (formerly America West orders) converted to a319s or similar?

Thanks!
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Flyusairways (Reply 21):
A bit off topic, but weren't the US A318 orders (formerly America West orders) converted to a319s or similar?

I believe so. Its either that or converted A321 orders.

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Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 11):
Frankly, this looks like an Airbus-paid PR article to spread some positive spin among the sea of bad news surrounding Airbus lately.

On the money....Katekebo...this is typical Airbus "BU@#S!&T"....
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:00 am

A bit off topic....for anybody that was at the NBAA Convention....


Did anybody see those Airbus brochures advertising the A380 ACJ/ Executive Transport?

Yeesh is that ridiculous....
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:13 am

I am confused now. Too many varying figures.

But the popularity of the A318E should show Boeing they might want to consider the BBJ Lite or some such name for a 736 based version. The basic "clear advantage" this year comes from Boeing having no competing product in that size class.

The upside of the A320 family is the cabin's a little wider so there's more room. The cargo hold is also bigger for more outsized toys, or to carry mysterious private cargo in an LD3.

The upside of the 737 family is that it's lower to the ground making it easier to service at airports that don't have facilities for baggage loading, lifts, etc. It has the same convenience as other business jets.
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:42 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 12):
two BBJ 3s

Hello friend. What model is Boeing referring to as BBJ3?

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 25):
But the popularity of the A318E should show Boeing they might want to consider the BBJ Lite or some such name for a 736 based version. The basic "clear advantage" this year comes from Boeing having no competing product in that size class.

Boeing had a business version (at least on plan) of the 736. Lack of customer interest led them to stop promoting it last January.
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26):
What model is Boeing referring to as BBJ3?

It's based on the 739ER wave 
News article on the launch from Boeing here:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2006/q4/061016a_nr.html
 
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:58 am

Thanks for finding some positive news about Airbus, Manni. It's a refreshing change from what's been posted lately. If you find any more, please post.
 
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 13):
Just showing you that Airbus talked about private custmers in refference to last months sales.

Respectfully, in that conversation, the context was that Airbus did not book "undisclosed" orders. A point which was in fact not the truth in the contect you referred too. I say that in the interest's of transparency.

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 14):
Wings number of 14 (not 20) refer to TOTAL sales of the A318E ONLY

True, but I corrected the number as it's not 14 but 22 now

Quoting Flyusairways (Reply 21):
A bit off topic, but weren't the US A318 orders (formerly America West orders) converted to a319s or similar?

It is my understanding that is correct, so why does Airbus still list the A318s for US when they have been converted?

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 26):
Hello friend. What model is Boeing referring to as BBJ3?

I believe Brendows has answered the question for you sir

Quoting Thebry (Reply 28):
If you find any more, please post.

I'm not Manni but I'll post some more  

The A318 Elite has secured it's first U.S. Customer, the Petters Group have ordered 1.



Regards, PanAm_DC10

[Edited 2006-10-19 03:48:52]
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:39 am

Can I ask a silly question. Who the f*ck cares? Really 10 or 20 frames won't make either company. I mean has the A vs. B pissing match sunk this low. What's next, which companies urinal pucks smell better?????
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:44 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 29):
The A318 Elite has secured it's first U.S. Customer, the Petters Group have ordered 1.

I'd buy one if I had the money. I don't need a plane as big as the BBJ, but the A318E is just big enough. Plus it's so damn cute!  Wink

Although, honestly, the Lineage 1000 is probably going to suit me just fine. Is that based on the E170 or E175?
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
Can I ask a silly question. Who the f*ck cares? Really 10 or 20 frames won't make either company. I mean has the A vs. B pissing match sunk this low. What's next, which companies urinal pucks smell better?????

Usually it's not that big of a deal, but I believe Airbus fanatics are looking for any small order to make themselves feel better. Solnabo and Manni have done this ad infinitum. To be fair, during their low point, Boeing fans did the exact same thing.
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:57 am

[Quote N328KF] To be fair, during their low point, Boeing fans did the exact same thing. [END QUOTE]

 checkmark  sir

@ Orisis30, there are plenty who care about airplane orders. So I'll put my hand up and say I do indeed care about them. Not so much the as to whom is outselling whom, moreso the fact that if an order is announced, it can lead to interesting discussions on the relevant carrier and for those of us sitting on the other side of the world we get to learn about said carriers business plans and route structures.

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osiris30
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:28 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 32):
To be fair, during their low point, Boeing fans did the exact same thing.

I wasn't here at the time or would have said the same thing then. I'm an equal opportunity a**  

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 33):
So I'll put my hand up and say I do indeed care about them. Not so much the as to whom is outselling whom, moreso the fact that if an order is announced, it can lead to interesting discussions on the relevant carrier and for those of us sitting on the other side of the world we get to learn about said carriers business plans and route structures.

I don't mind discussing the orders (hell I was tempted to start a couple of threads on orders not already being discussed, 1 for A and 1 for B), but does everything have to be sensationalized into A vs. B BS?

I'm not even arguing against discussing the merits of the offerings from both, but tot title is x outselling y 2 to 1??? Excuse me while I run off and start a post Boeing outselling Airbus 3 to 1 overall for the entire year. (again I don't mind if someone wants to argue the merits of faults of a 787 or 380, but why turn something into an A v. B pissing match all the time).

[edit] I didn't start those two aforementioned threads because I knew I would get flamed by both camps, and I can't fight two flame wars at once. The B fans woulda crapped on the A thread and the A fans vice-versa [/edit]

[Edited 2006-10-19 04:29:31]
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:59 am

Thanks Brendows and PanAm_DC10.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
but the A318E is just big enough. Plus it's so damn cute!

Makes two of us finding it so.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
the Lineage 1000 is probably going to suit me just fine. Is that based on the E170 or E175

Neither. It's based on the E190. Although the E170 could be another "cute" private jet.
Edit: I wonder who's the individual who ordered the Elite on Jun 6 per Reply 14?

[Edited 2006-10-19 05:16:53]
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EMBQA
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Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
The Airbus Commercial Jetliner (ACJ) is outselling its Boeing Business Jet (BBJ) counterpart two to one in the highly rarified world of business jets that are as big as an airliner. Boeing has sold ten this year but Airbus confirms selling twice that number. Goana hinted that he was hoping to bring that total up to 22 before the end of the NBAA convention.

...REALLY...? Boeing's TOTAL numbers are nearly 10x that of Airbus. The Airbus web site shows only 9 ACJ's in service and Boeing shows 93 BBJ's in service. Outselling...? You do the math.

[Edited 2006-10-19 05:50:53]
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BBJ 8 pax: range- 6200nm
max runway use- 5790 ft
**reliable airplane for over 30yrs.**

ACJ 8 pax: range- 6000nm
max runway use- 6171 ft


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Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 34):
I don't mind discussing the orders

Nor do I sir;

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 34):
I'm not even arguing against discussing the merits of the offerings from both

Nor am I sir;

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 34):
I'm not even arguing against discussing the merits of the offerings from both, but tot title is x outselling y 2 to 1??? Excuse me while I run off and start a post Boeing outselling Airbus 3 to 1 overall for the entire year. (again I don't mind if someone wants to argue the merits of faults of a 787 or 380, but why turn something into an A v. B pissing match all the time).

I didn't post the thread, I merely responded with facts available from the respective OEMs websites, amongst others. CJs are hard to keep track of as those whom purchase them usually which to retain anonimity.

That said, with the language and attitude displayed by you in this thread I can perfectly understand why you don't post because any such thread would just turn into an A v B thread. Manni just repeated a report as the title for the thread, there have been many replies which have been informative. Troll posts like yours just so happen to ruin it for the rest of us.

No I'm not a Moderator, but I am a long time user of this site that get's tired of people such as yourself contributing to a post with troll statements that add no value whatsoever. If you don't like it, don't post. Meanwhile let the rest of us have a decent conversation, even if we may not agree on all points.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
manni
Posts: 4049
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Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:11 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 36):
You do the math.

I don't have to do the math again if you reread my post.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 32):
but I believe Airbus fanatics are looking for any small order to make themselves feel better. Solnabo and Manni have done this ad infinitum.

Who urinated in your breakfast this morning? This forum is THE place to post this kind of news. It's all good and well when the 100th variation on possible consequences of the delayed A380 is posted and being discussed again, but if someone dares to post a topic with Airbus and positive in the same sentence he's a fanatic... That's a truly sad mindset you have.

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
Can I ask a silly question. Who the f*ck cares?

Did you had breakfast with N328KF?

Quoting Thebry (Reply 28):
Thanks for finding some positive news about Airbus, Manni. It's a refreshing change from what's been posted lately. If you find any more, please post.

You're welcome. I will not hestitate to post more positive news about Airbus if I stumble across them. Despite the childish behaviour it triggers on the private message system.
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N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:18 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
US Airways x 15 (Interesting to see what happens)

I believe those are no longer on order, havng been replaced by larger models or cancelled because of default on the PW6000.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
osiris30
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 38):
No I'm not a Moderator, but I am a long time user of this site that get's tired of people such as yourself contributing to a post with troll statements that add no value whatsoever. If you don't like it, don't post. Meanwhile let the rest of us have a decent conversation, even if we may not agree on all points.

PanAm_DC10: I'll send you a private on this so I don't drag the thread further OT. Apologies to all for the tone and wording of my post, it *was* out of line. Chalk it up to frustration and I hope you can accept my apologies.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
osiris30
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:16 am

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 39):
Did you had breakfast with N328KF?

LOL no, but someone did pee in my cornflakes. Apologies Manni, carry on  Smile
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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PanAm_DC10
Crew
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Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 7):
US Airways x 15 (Interesting to see what happens)

I believe those are no longer on order, havng been replaced by larger models or cancelled because of default on the PW6000

IIRC N1120A is correct, the delay PW6000 was one of the reasons as to why HP (at the time) could cancel if they so chose to do so.

the Company also secured extensive flexibility from Airbus with respect to its existing A318 order, allowing the Company to better react to market conditions by enabling it to amend its 15 A318 delivery positions to A319s and A320s, if it so desires, or to no additional aircraft under certain conditions.

The Airbus O&D spreadsheet reflects no conversions yet they still carry the A318s on the books. I've been watching this for awhile and they have made some smaller conversions. I doubt we'll see these delivered to US.

http://sec.edgar-online.com/ do a search on the SEC site for more details

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:42 am

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 29):
Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 14):
Wings number of 14 (not 20) refer to TOTAL sales of the A318E ONLY

True, but I corrected the number as it's not 14 but 22 now

My point is that you two are talking about two different issues. Wings gives the correct number of 14 of TOTAL sales of the A318E, i.e. since A started to offer it, while the thread is about the 2006 sales of all NB ACJ, which is/was indeed 22.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 36):
...REALLY...? Boeing's TOTAL numbers are nearly 10x that of Airbus. The Airbus web site shows only 9 ACJ's in service and Boeing shows 93 BBJ's in service. Outselling...? You do the math.

There are more ACJs active because A often identifies its ACJ customers on their sheets something B never does for the BBJ. Privatair for instance operates 4 ACJ. Admitted that doesn't change that B outsells A
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:40 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
Boutsen Aviation - wow, owned by Thierry Boutsen. SWEET! I remember when he helled Senna off in Hungary, what was that, 1989 or 1990, what a race.

I was wondering if it was him. Man, those F1 people sure like aviation (Lauda, Stoddard to name a few)
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
manni
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:45 pm

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 42):
Apologies Manni, carry on

Thank you Osiris. Very much appriciated and accepted.
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Bussines

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:25 pm

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 44):
My point is that you two are talking about two different issues.

Thank you AMSSFO you could well be right, however;

Quoting AMSSFO (Reply 44):
Wings gives the correct number of 14 of TOTAL sales of the A318E, i.e. since A started to offer it,

I was referring to that too which was why I listed the number as 22 because that is the correct number since the launch of the A318 Elite;

Pacing this business volume is the A318 Elite - the shortest-fuselage member of the Airbus Corporate Jetliner Family, which has logged 22 orders and commitments since the programme's launch announcement last November.

http://www.airbus.com/en/myairbus/headlinenews/index.jsp

Total sales for Airbus ACJs of all variants are as follows;

Total sales for the Airbus Corporate Jetliner Family - composed of the A318Elite, ACJ and A320 Prestige - now stand at approximately 80 aircraft with some 60 total customers.

Respectfully, I'm not trying to detract from the conversation, but the number was wrong. Also it should be noted that this is another case of Airbus and Boeing booking their ACJ & BBJ orders under different guidelines. Airbus announced customers and how many, when they get booked. BBJ only make one public annual announcement at the NBAA when each order is booked it is usually as unidentified and as BBJ is the customer from BCAG all BBJs are booked as being for a North American customer, BBJ.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
AMSSFO
Posts: 912
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:42 am

RE: Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 47):
22 orders and commitments

So that makes 14 firm orders and apparently 8 commitments. We can expect more firm orders in the next months
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
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RE: Airbus Corporate Jetliner Outsells Boeing Business

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 39):
I don't have to do the math again if you reread my post.

I know you are talking about current 2006 sales. So what....? Boeing is still crushing the ACJ program with total sales.
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