ke086
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Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:13 pm

Forgive me if this has been posted before but I thought that this was interesting enought to do it! The TOP six airlines that have the most fatalities are...

1). China Airlines- With 760 Fatalities
2). Pan Am- With 594 Fatalities
3). American Airlines- With 587 Fatalities
4). Korean Air- With 586 Fatalities
5). Air India- With 542 Fatalities
6). Japan Airlines- With 520 Fatalities

There is a sight in which you can see all the fatalities. There is a graph that shows which airline has the most fatalities.
Here is the Direct Link:
http://www.airfleets.net/crash/fatalities_airline.htm
KE THE ONLY WAY TO FLY
 
TG992
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:38 pm

It's important to note, however, that these statistics only cover aircraft tracked by the website.

I remember once I counted all the fatalities Aeroflot was responsible for from 1950-2000, and gave up counting at 7000! (yes I know they were vast, operated in poor conditions, etc)
-
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:39 pm

If you consider that all but a fraction of the incidents were completely of no fault of the airline whatsoever - i'd be interested to see the stats again, but just with the stuff where the airline is directly culpable as far as can be determined.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:47 pm

How far back does the tracking on that link go?

If it's earlier than 1970, then their data for AS is incorrect. There is no mention of the 727-100 that crashed near Juneau, AK in 1971.

And US Air's numbers are bogus as well. It doesn't show the US Air DC-9 that crashed at Charlotte, NC . . . . all the US Air losses indicate a B737.

And the numbers for DL are incorrect as well . . . doesn't show the DL DC-9 that shortsheeted the seawall at BOS (or was it LGA)?

I wouldn't rely too heavily on this information . . . I found these three anomolies with only a few seconds of searching . . . .




Go here:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/airlines.htm

[Edited 2006-10-18 12:52:52]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
a3
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
The TOP six airlines that have the most fatalities are...

To me these statistics are only half the truth.

Lets suppose that airline X has 3 fifty seater aircrafts and operates 2 years a few flights daily.
If they have an accident with 3 people killed, than it puts them way back to the list compared with airline Y that has 70 threehundred seater aircrafts and operates 30 years with thousands off flights every year , but has a crash with 300 people killed.

To me the only true statistic is how often an airline has a severe accident in comparison by the number of flights/miles per year.
Don't spend your money on airlines that don't respect your business.
 
lordg
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
). Korean Air- With 586 Fatalities

dosn't really count cause they had a 747 shot/force landed by the soviets.
kal007 i think
If you're going through hell- keep going!
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting Lordg (Reply 5):
Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
). Korean Air- With 586 Fatalities

dosn't really count cause they had a 747 shot/force landed by the soviets.
kal007 i think

Similarly most of the PanAm figures will be the Tenerife Incident and 103 neither of which were their fault - KLM plane ran into their plane and a bomb.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
The TOP six airlines that have the most fatalities are...

Your information is wrong. The Starting dates is different for each airline which gives incorrect data.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ke086
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:41 pm

I got this information form that sight that i have mentioned I'm just showing what i saw from that sight!!!!
KE THE ONLY WAY TO FLY
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:09 pm

I think those statistics are far from being accurate :

They indicate "AOM French Airlines" = 16.
In fact, this crash involved an AOM DC10 leased and operated by CUBANA.

They say AIR FRANCE = 119 :
Concorde crash : 109. Actually, 113 persons were killed (100 PAX = 9 Crew + 4 on the ground)
A320 Habsheim in 1988 = 3. This is correct.
A300 F-GBEC in MRS (Dec.1994) = 7 : that's actually 3 PAX killed by the terrorists and the 4 Terrorists/hijackers killed by the French Police Forces during the assault of the aircraft on the tarmac at MRS.

For LUFTHANSA, they count the Nairobi Crash (B747), the A320 in WAW but not the DASH-8 D-BEAT, crashed at CDG in Feb. 1992, who killed 4 PAX.
 
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United787
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:46 pm

The most complete website on airline accidents is www.aviation-safety.net although you will probably have to add numbers yourself.

For instance, AA has had 1,445 fatalities since 1943, including American Eagle and 9/11 (not including ground fatalities).

[Edited 2006-10-18 15:56:15]
 
ricardofg
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:53 pm

AA has gotta have more then that no??
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 9):
the DASH-8 D-BEAT, crashed at CDG in Feb. 1992, who killed 4 PAX.

correction : that occured on Jan.6th 1993, not Feb.1992
 
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United787
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:01 pm

But to be really accurate and fair to an airline, you would need to separate the cause of the accidents into categories, only a couple of which are the fault of the airline:

Hijacking
Bombing or Shoot Down
Pilot Error (Airline Fault)
ATC Error
Collision by Other Pilot Error
Weather
Mechanical Error by Poor Airline Maintenance (Airline Fault)
Mechanical Error by Manufacturer/Design Defect
Unknown...

[Edited 2006-10-18 16:16:59]
 
jaysit
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:05 pm

Of the above airlines, the following accidents were no fault of the airlines.

Air India: 329 killed in 1985 by a terrorists bomb smuggled on board because of poor Canadian security.

PanAm: 270 killed by Libyan terrorist bomb (PA 103); another 300+ killed at Tenerife because of KLM pilot not following orders.

American: Two September 11 crashes.

Arguably, the Korean Air crash in 1983 can be attributed to pilot error. If they'd never have strayed into Soviet airspace, this accident could have been avoided.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
kappel
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 6):
Similarly most of the PanAm figures will be the Tenerife Incident and 103 neither of which were their fault - KLM plane ran into their plane and a bomb.

The Pan Am pilot also did not follow orders, he missed a turn-off on the runway. There was also a miscommunication between the tower and the KLM 747 pilots. It's not really as black and white as that.

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
6). Japan Airlines- With 520 Fatalities

Isn't this only one or maybe two crashes? I think that is also very important. One crash in how many years of operation and such a big fleet is not bad at all.

Quoting Lordg (Reply 5):
dosn't really count cause they had a 747 shot/force landed by the soviets.
kal007 i think

agreed, that one should not really count. However, in a stat covering airline fatalities it should be included, only with an asterisk.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
wjcandee
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
completely of no fault of the airline whatsoever

AA flew a completely-fine 757 into the side of a mountain in Columbia, killing virtually everyone aboard.

AA's maint was a significant contributing factor to the Chicago DC10 accident.

[Edited 2006-10-18 16:36:26]
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
And the numbers for DL are incorrect as well . . . doesn't show the DL DC-9 that shortsheeted the seawall at BOS (or was it LGA)?

It was at BOS back in July 1973. The DC-9 in question was a former-Yellowbird, N975NE. A back-issue of Airliners had an article on that crash a few years back.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
Japan Airlines- With 520 Fatalities



Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
Isn't this only one or maybe two crashes?

520 in one single crash. The worst ever Air accident involving 1 aircraft.

Flight JL123 HND-ITM, on Aug.12th 1985. B747SR JA8119.
524 souls on board. 509 PAX + 15 Crew.
The crash killed 520. 4 persons survived.

PROBABLE CAUSE: "Deterioration of flight characteristics and loss of primary flight controls due to rupture of the aft pressure bulkhead with subsequent ruptures of the tail, vertical fin and hydraulic flight control systems.
The reason for the aft pressure bulkhead rupture was that its strength was reduced by the fatigue cracks propagating in the spliced portion of the bulkhead's webs. The initiation and propagation of the fatigue cracks are attributable to the improper repairs of the bulkhead, conducted in 1978, and since the fatigue cracks were not found in the later maintenance inspections, this contributed to the accident."
 
katekebo
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:57 pm

Sorry, but this is completely meaningless statistic. It only covers certain models of airplanes (look at Aeroflot numbers, it only counts the fatalities from the A310 crash), does not clarify the timeframe nor the size of the operations. Publishing statistics like that only perpetuates the say that there are lies, damn big lies and statistics. Following the same logic, a bed is the most dangerous place to be - statistically, the vast majority of people die while laying in bed. Since I found this scary fact, I sleep on the floor.
 
atlaaron
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:57 am

To get a real picture of this information you need a rate of fatalities not a number of deaths.

The RATE can be found here . . .

http://www.airsafe.com/airline.htm
 
ricardofg
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 16):
AA flew a completely-fine 757 into the side of a mountain in Columbia, killing virtually everyone aboard.

AA's maint was a significant contributing factor to the Chicago DC10 accident.

What about that crash shortly after 9/11 involving I believe a A300 (i could be wrong) that crashed shortly after takeoff in a Queens neighbourhood...

November 12, 2001 - An American Airlines Airbus A-300 bound for Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, crashes into the New York borough of Queens minutes after takeoff. At least 265 people are killed, including five on the ground.

[Edited 2006-10-19 02:48:05]
 
ricardofg
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:57 am

this is according to airsafe.com

28 December 1970; American Airlines (Trans Caribbean Airways) 727-200; St. Thomas, VI: The aircraft had a hard landing which caused it to bounce. The crew executed a second touchdown which caused on of the main landing gear to fail. The aircraft overran the runway on the right side and hit an embankment. None of the crew members and two of the 46 passengers were killed.

27 April 1976; American Airlines 727; St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands: The aircraft was on a scheduled flight from JFK airport in New York to St. Thomas. The aircraft overran the runway after an unsuccessful attempt at aborting the landing. Two of the seven crew members and 35 of the 81 passengers were killed.


25 May 1979; American Airlines DC10; Chicago, USA: During the takeoff roll, the left engine and pylon separated from the wing. The crew continued the takeoff, but wing damage due to the engine separation also damaged the aircraft hydraulic system and caused retraction of some flight control surfaces. The aircraft rolled and crashed shortly after takeoff. All 258 passengers and 13 crew were killed. Two people on the ground were also killed.

20 December 1995; American Airlines 757; near Buga, Colombia: The aircraft crashed into Mt. San Jose at night at about the 9,000 foot level while descending into Cali, Colombia after its flight from Miami. All 8 crew and 155 of the 159 passengers were killed in the crash. Colombian civil aviation authorities report that at the time of the accident, all navigational beacons were fully serviceable and that the aircraft voice and data recorders did not indicate any aircraft problems.

12 November 2001; American Airlines A300-600; Queens, New York: The aircraft was on a flight from New York to Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic when it crashed into a residential neighborhood just outside JFK airport. The aircraft experienced an in-flight breakup, with the vertical fin and one engine landing away from the main impact site. The crash damaged or destroyed several homes, and killed five people on the ground. Also killed were all nine crew members and 251 passengers on the aircraft, including five infants.

now according tomy calculations thats 733 fatalities not including 9/11 and 2 other american eagle crashes. correct me if i am wrong.

[Edited 2006-10-19 02:58:03]
 
Cadet57
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
2). Pan Am- With 594 Fatalities

In part due to PA103

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
4). Korean Air- With 586 Fatalities

Due to KE007

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
6). Japan Airlines- With 520 Fatalities

Due to JL123


These numbers do not consider the number of CRASHES or acts of terrorism. They really are worthless. This does not show the safety of an airlines fleet or crew.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ozglobal
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:06 am

The point is, this is an attempt to defend against recent criticism of KE's safety on another thread. It won't work. Look at the number of fatalities per flight / air mile and then the percentage caused by pilot error and KE stand head and shoulders above the rest as the most dangerous.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
thegooddoctor
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 19):
statistically, the vast majority of people die while laying in bed. Since I found this scary fact, I sleep on the floor.

LOL!

I assume you do not live in the congo basin. If you did this there, you would be at risk of losing your life to ANTS of all things. Now how do you feel about sleeping on the floor?
The GoodDoctor
 
aa777sjc
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
The Pan Am pilot also did not follow orders, he missed a turn-off on the runway. There was also a miscommunication between the tower and the KLM 747 pilots. It's not really as black and white as that.

While there were many contributing factors to this accident (widebodies at a foggy regional airport ill equipped to deal with them, heterodynes when two parties trying to speak at the same time and nothing but static is heard, etc) the major cause of this accident was the KLM pilot taking off when he was told "Stand by for take-off, I will call you."

I agree that Tenerife isn't a black and white situtation, but the Pan Am jet missing it's turnoff (and the other contributing causes) wouldn't have been fatal if the KLM Pilot didn't start his takeoff roll before the tower authorized him to.
 
TG992
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:50 am

But surely the KLM pilot starting his takeoff roll before the tower authorized him to wouldn't have been fatal if the Pan Am jet didn't miss its turnoff?
-
 
EMBQA
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 15):
It's not really as black and white as that.

Sorry.. yes it is that black and white. The KLM Capt was not given premission to take off and he did. Period.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
brettdespain
Posts: 126
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
And the numbers for DL are incorrect as well . . . doesn't show the DL DC-9 that shortsheeted the seawall at BOS (or was it LGA)?

It was an MD-88 that sheared off the landing gear at LGA and no one died.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...96®=N914DL&airline=Delta+Air+Lines

Brett
V1...Rotate.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting KE086 (Thread starter):
Pan Am- With 594 Fatalities

Not even close. I stopped counting at well over 2,000
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
EMBQA
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting Brettdespain (Reply 29):
It was an MD-88 that sheared off the landing gear at LGA and no one died.

No.. the one he is talking about happened in..? 1974..?
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:13 am

Quoting Brettdespain (Reply 29):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
And the numbers for DL are incorrect as well . . . doesn't show the DL DC-9 that shortsheeted the seawall at BOS (or was it LGA)?


It was an MD-88 that sheared off the landing gear at LGA and no one died.

I was thinking of the one in Boston . . . see this reply:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
It was at BOS back in July 1973. The DC-9 in question was a former-Yellowbird, N975NE. A back-issue of Airliners had an article on that crash a few years back.



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
American: Two September 11 crashes.

United: Ditto
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
EMBQA
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 14):
American: Two September 11 crashes.

The total death count on all four planes was very low....

UAL... 109
AA.... 156

[Edited 2006-10-19 04:29:18]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Cadet57
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 33):
The total death count on all four planes was very low....

Right cuz each of the planes had no more then what 70 on each?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 28):
Sorry.. yes it is that black and white. The KLM Capt was not given premission to take off and he did. Period.

You are correct. Pan Am was not at fault in this accident regardless of whether they missed the turn-off. They were to inform the tower when they were clear of the runway and the tower was to clear KLM once Pan Am reported. That never happened. KLM began the take-off role before clearance, and therefore the fault lies with KLM. While the fog, the diversions to Tenerife due to the bomb incident at Las Palmas, the KLM crew being in a hurry so a replacement crew would not have to be flown in, and Pan Am missing the first turn-off due to the fog were causal factors, none were the actual cause of the accident.

[Edited 2006-10-19 04:53:20]
 
jasond
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:03 pm

I'm not overly sure what the thread aims to state (apart from some statistics). In the case of at least two of the airlines quoted the figures reflect a single accident in each case and is not indicative of any ongoing safety issue associated with those carriers. Also in both of those cases the airline concerned was not at fault. Thanks for the stats all the same but subsequent analysis draws little in terms of conclusion.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:59 pm

United has had its fair share of crashes (some where it was at fault, and some where it wasn't). The fatality figures I am including are only people killed on United's planes (i.e. midair collsions only include the United planes, no ground fatalities are included).

10 October 1933 - Chesterton, IN - NC13304 - B247 - Bomb - 7 Fatalities
30 June 1951 - Denver, CO - Flight 610 - DC6 - CFIT - 50 Fatalities
24 August 1951 - Oakland, CA - Flight 615 - DC6 - CFIT - 50 Fatalities
6 October 1955 - Centennial, WY - Flight 409 - DC4 - CFIT - 66 Fatalities
1 November 1955 - Longmont, CO - Flight 629 - DC6 - Bomb - 44 Fatalities
30 June 1956 - Grand Canyon, AZ - Flight 718 - DC7 - MidAir - 58 Fatalities
16 December 1960 - New York, NY - Flight 826 - DC8 - MidAir - 84 Fatalities
11 July 1961 - Denver, CO - Flight 859 - DC8 - Landing - 17 Fatalities
23 November 1963 - Ellicott City, MD - Flight 297 - Viscount - Bird Strike - 17 Fatalities
9 July 1964 - Parrottsville, TN - Flight 823 - Viscount - Fire - 39 Fatalities
16 August 1965 - Lake Michigan - Flight 389 - B727 - CFIT - 30 Fatalities
11 November 1965 - Salt Lake City, UT - Flight 227 - B727 - Landing - 43 Fatalities
18 January 1966 - Los Angeles, CA - Flight 266 - B727 - Systems Failure - 38 Fatalities
8 December 1972 - Chicago, IL - Flight 553 - B737 - Go-Around Stall - 43 Fatalities
28 December 1978 - Portland, OR - Flight 173 - DC8 - Fuel Exhaustion - 10 Fatalities
24 February 1989 - Honolulu, HI - Flight 811 - B747 - Explosive Decomp. - 9 Fatalities
19 July 1989 - Sioux City, IA - Flight 232 - DC10 - Hydraulic Failure - 111 Fatalities
3 March 1991 - Colorado Springs, CO - Flight 585 - B737 - Rudder Failure - 25 Fatalities
28 December 1997 - Pacific Ocean - Flight 826 - B747 - Turbulence - 1 Fatality
11 September 2001 - New York, NY - Flight 175 - B767 - Hijacking - 65 Fatalities
11 September 2001 - Shanksville, PA - Flight 93 - B757 - Hijacking - 44 Fatalities

Just on this list alone, which excludes United Express and possibly omits other incidents, has 851 fatalities. Surprisingly, the deadliest crash was one that didn't have a 100% fatality rate (United 232).
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:44 pm

I have to wonder what range of dates is being considered for these statistics...

For instance, I checked Aviateca and it shows 65 fatalities. That means it's only taking into account flight GU 901 that crashed in El Salvador in 1995; it's missing 12 other accidents from 1953 to 1978, with a total count of 84 fatalities (additional to the 65 already mentioned).

And that's only one airline... imagine if we check all the data presented?
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
qantas787
Posts: 216
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
If you consider that all but a fraction of the incidents were completely of no fault of the airline whatsoever - i'd be interested to see the stats again, but just with the stuff where the airline is directly culpable as far as can be determined.

I guess the post is about fatalities and you are just as dead whether aircraft or airline is to blame.
G'day
 
lordg
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:46 pm

RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 20):
To get a real picture of this information you need a rate of fatalities not a number of deaths.

The RATE can be found here . . .

http://www.airsafe.com/airline.htm

not too accurate either seems to blame 3000+ of 9/11 on AA

Quoting United787 (Reply 13):
But to be really accurate and fair to an airline, you would need to separate the cause of the accidents into categories

 checkmark 
If you're going through hell- keep going!
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
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RE: Airlines With The Most Fatalities

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:03 pm

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 35):
KLM began the take-off role before clearance, and therefore the fault lies with KLM. While the fog, the diversions to Tenerife due to the bomb incident at Las Palmas, the KLM crew being in a hurry so a replacement crew would not have to be flown in, and Pan Am missing the first turn-off due to the fog were causal factors, none were the actual cause of the accident.

The thing is, if the KLM flight wasn't so fully loaded with fuel (he took extra fuel to save time at the next stop, Palma IIRC) he might have actually made it over the PA 747.
I'm not trying to defend the KLM crew here, the major fault does lie with them, but there were so many contributing factors to the accident. There was also a critical message from the PA crew to the tower that they were still on the runway, but the KLM crew couldn't hear that because of interference.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 20):
The RATE can be found here . . .

agreed, the rate is more telling. I didn't realize HA had so few flights? One would think with all those interisland flights it would be a higher number...
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195