EZEIZA
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Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:19 pm

A 5-month baby died on an Air Madrid flight that covered EZE-MAD last thursday . According to first reports, the baby died shortly after having powder milk with water provided by the company. The mother, Yanina Castro, claims that there were no doctors on board while Air Madrid GM in Argentina, Carlos Trellez, says that the baby was trated by five doctors that were on the flight, and that there is no evidence yet that the water had anything to do with the tragedy, and that "until the results of the autopsy are given, there should be no spoeculations because this is a very serious case".
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionIm...iongeneral/nota.asp?nota_id=850322
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ltbewr
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:30 pm

What a sad story, but I suspect this has happened before. Any baby at that very young age is still at risk for a number of illnesses, including SIDS and flaws in their bodies not known or with any signs to doctors. All possibilities must be investigated including a through autopacy, examination of the formula, the water used and of the mother's personal life. Of course it causes some significant issues as this occured on an aircraft, with the mother, in international airspace. Let's hope the cause of this baby's death is determined and just something natural.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:35 pm

This is really terrible.

There is not much the airline can do. Just terrible stuff...
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N754PR
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:49 pm

Thats very sad to hear.... Lets hope they get to the bottom of what happened.
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LTU932
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:11 am

I wonder why NM never diverted for this medical emergency? Was it too late or did they simply not divert when the kid could still have been saved?

That being said, my deepest condolences to the family.
 
777ER
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:28 am

Its never good to hear about people dieing on flights. RIP
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AlexPorter
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
I wonder why NM never diverted for this medical emergency? Was it too late or did they simply not divert when the kid could still have been saved?

It was EZE-MAD so they were probably halfway across the Atlantic when it happened with nowhere to divert to.
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Iberia340600
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:09 am

It says in the paper that "After drinking the milk, the baby did not want to sleep, didnt feel well, had a fever, lips were discolored, and was not breathing properly". Sounds a little strange that all that would come on right after drinking the milk. Couldnt it be that the baby was already sick? I mean a natural reaction if something does not agree with you is to throw up...although I am not a doctor.
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:11 am

"Hasta que no estén los resultados de la autopsia, éste es un caso muy grave como para realizar especulaciones sobre las causas del deceso", aseñaló Trellez. "No estuve en el vuelo, pero de acuerdo con las declaraciones de la madre sobre la falta de oxígeno en el avión, hay que decir que todos los aviones tienen oxígeno, sólo había que bajar las mascarillas de emergencia", dijo Trellez.


My spanish is a little rusty but it apears that the mother is saying the Air plane did not have oxygen for emergency medical use on board. The company clames that all there planes have emergency oxygen.
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LTU932
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 8):
My spanish is a little rusty but it apears that the mother is saying the Air plane did not have oxygen for emergency medical use on board. The company clames that all there planes have emergency oxygen.

You're correct. The mother complained about no oxigen being available while the NM rep said there was oxigen available and that they only needed to lower the emergency oxigen masks (likely those used in case of cabin depressurisation).

But why lower those emergency masks? Didn't they have a separate oxigen supply for medical emergencies?

[Edited 2006-10-18 21:17:59]
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Iberia340600 (Reply 7):
"After drinking the milk, the baby did not want to sleep, didnt feel well, had a fever, lips were discolored, and was not breathing properly". Sounds a little strange that all that would come on right after drinking the milk.

That actually sounds very much like an allergic reaction. http://www.foodallergy.org/anaphylaxis/index.html
I'm sure the proper authorities will determine if the powdered milk contributed to this. I would be interested to know if the was first time the baby had drunk that particular product. Very sad.
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EZEIZA
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:57 am

As for now everything is speculation on what coud have caused the tragedy. Also, I have not found any additional info on Argentine press, so does anyone know at what stage of the flight this could have happened? The EZE-MAD Air Madrid flight stops at Fortaleza before crossing the Atlantic. Unless this happened in the last hour, where there is no point of diverting, there are some places where the aircraft could have landed such as Cabo Verde or Dakar, or maybe even return to Brazil. And I'm speculating here, but if this happened right after feeding the baby, I'm pretty sure that it was not in the last few moments of the flight. Again, I am just speculating since I have no further info, but it seems to me that the flight could have been diverted (although from the looks of it, the tragedy would have not been avoided because everything happened too fast). What is the regulation for these cases. especially once a person has died?
regards
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b777a340fan
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:28 am

I don't think a baby that young should be allowed to fly. As one said above, a baby that young is susceptible to various airborne illnesses, especially in such tight environment. Could very well have been an allergic reaction, but to the water? This story doesn't make sense... I think it's not the water because other passengers would've gotten sick as well. Bottom line, I don't think it's the airline's fault. Again, just a guess.
 
shankly
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:04 am

Remember the first time I took my son on an airliner when he was four months old. As we thundered down the runway at LGW I thought "what are you doing!?" However reality quickly checked. Hundreds if not thousands of infants fly throughout the world day in day out without problems. Hundreds however die on the roads. This is an extremely sad story and the despair of Ms Castro must be unbearable.
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FlyinHigh
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 12):
I don't think a baby that young should be allowed to fly.

I've flown with my two kids years ago when one was 11 days old and the other 3 months old. I've also been on many flights where there have been young babies. This has nothing to do with the age of the baby, it's more likely to be the formula, water or a birth defect.

RIP, little one
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usair320
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 am

very sad story.  Sad . Must be heart breaking for the mother.
 
eastern747
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:47 am

Please correct me if I am wrong, but most carriers today have bottled water on the carts and don't rely on potable water excpt for coffee. Somehow i also got the impression the formula was supplied by the carrier..doesn't make sense.
 
777jaah
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:08 am

Next december i'll fly BOG-MIA-BOG (3.5 hr flight) with my 9 months old baby, and I'll do it with no hesitation. I think bad luck got into the equation in this case, very, very sad, only a parent can really imagine this kind of pain the mother is going through. QEPD.
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Markhkg
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
But why lower those emergency masks? Didn't they have a separate oxigen supply for medical emergencies?

You are correct. The rep seems to be mistaken. There is drop-down oxygen, but there is also theraputic oxygen carried in portable bottles. Most, if not all, passenger carrying aircraft should have portable oxygen. It's possible that they may not have had an oxygen mask size suitable for the infant, but they should have had an oxygen tank to bring to the patient.
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ABpositive
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 10):
That actually sounds very much like an allergic reaction.

I think you might be right on the money here. I wonder if the airlines have adrenaline for treating anaphylaxis in First Aid kits.
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:19 am

 Sad This is really sad. I hope they find out what happened so this never happens again. RIP to the baby. Thoughts with the family.

Dave
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dz09
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:43 am

All my kids flew transatlantic when they were just a few months old. It sounds that the poor baby had a pre-existing condition, most likely a heart condition and did not adjust to the pressurisation. Man this is terrible.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting ABpositive (Reply 19):
I wonder if the airlines have adrenaline for treating anaphylaxis

It's highly unlikely -- medical adrenaline needs to be refrigerated at all times, has a relatively short useful life and if the incorrect type can cause even worse complications. IIRC, medical adrenaline can be sourced from various animals -- I know for example that some anti-venom is obtained from horses, and if the recipient is allergic to horses, the side-effects are worse than the original snake-bite (in this case, they use anti-venom sourced from rabbits).

My cousin is highly allergic to nuts, but she can't carry adrenaline with her because of the storage requirements ... makes it really difficult to take her out for a meal! Big grin
 
dampfnudel
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:15 am

On a related note, I always thought it was better to wait until a child was at least 6 months old to fly because of the child's fragile eardrum. At least that's what my mom's doctor said when I was born back in the 70s.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting ABpositive (Reply 19):
I think you might be right on the money here. I wonder if the airlines have adrenaline for treating anaphylaxis

True, but then again, if it is not an allergic reaction, then the possibility arises that the medication could do harm, then I wouldn't want to be the Flight Attendant that gave it.

Either way, a very sad sad story and I feel for the mother, may the baby RIP
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boacvc10
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting FlyinHigh (Reply 14):
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 12):
I don't think a baby that young should be allowed to fly.

I've flown with my two kids years ago when one was 11 days old and the other 3 months old. I've also been on many flights where there have been young babies. This has nothing to do with the age of the baby,

My daughter was born in CCU and we had to make a trip back home to DAC after about 6 weeks on BG, and had no problems. The mother IMHO should have prepared her own meals / bottles in advance, as this was a short enough flight and just warmed it up in the galley by calling up an F/A.


I wonder if the airline had imposed any security arrangement / restriction such that she could not bring any bottled water (infant formula, prepared) and therefore she had to rely upon the potable water on the A/C.


I would think that the flight should have returned to base, and not continued on the route, as it is horrible to think of the situation in the air, any idea on what Pilot in command decided to do?

Did they try to raise a hospital medic through the R/T, who could have advised how to wash the baby's stomach for any posionous substances ?


IMHO, the SQ F/A training for taking care of baby's are the best as I have flown with family a lot - and they seem to care very diligently and prefer that you bring your own bottled milk or heat it up extra hot and sterilise the container before giving it back to you.

Which airlines have ground medic facilities for onboard medical emergencies?


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boacvc10
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Dampfnudel (Reply 23):
I always thought it was better to wait until a child was at least 6 months old to fly because of the child's fragile eardrum

As a child during the 1960s and 1970s, I flew a lot on F-27 A/C, and the screaming noise of the props were loud enough that we had to wear cotton ear plugs so not to rupture our eardrums. That is good advice for small children, didn't know the definition of decibels then.


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birdbrainz
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting Dampfnudel (Reply 23):
On a related note, I always thought it was better to wait until a child was at least 6 months old to fly because of the child's fragile eardrum. At least that's what my mom's doctor said when I was born back in the 70s.

We flew SFO-LHR-CPT with our six-month old and were told the opposite: the baby doesn't feel pressure in the ears until about nine months onward, and that a six months old is a relatively easy age to travel with them. Also, it's at that age that the immune system is able localize infections and fight them better.

The baby did fine, by the way. In fact, he slept far better than most passengers did. The BA crews on those flights were super.

As for formula, we used the premixed and sealed tiny bottles of Enfamil, and it worked extremely well.
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rampart
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 22):
Quoting ABpositive (Reply 19):
I wonder if the airlines have adrenaline for treating anaphylaxis

It's highly unlikely -- medical adrenaline needs to be refrigerated at all times, has a relatively short useful life and if the incorrect type can cause even worse complications.

This does sound like an alergic reaction -- I am very familiar with this sort of thing! But not all medicines require special treatment or refrigeration. A commonly available emergency injection of epinephrine, used for most alergic reactions, uses an auto-injection device (used on the thigh). There is one made specifically for small children and infants. It takes a prescription, but I wonder if such a device isn't included in an airplane's emergency kit? Doctors tell us to use it and "go directly to the emergency room". It saves lives, but does not permanently correct the adverse symptom.

Harrowing, I'm sure. Very sad.

-Rampart
 
Markhkg
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Brenintw (Reply 22):
Medical adrenaline needs to be refrigerated at all times, has a relatively short useful life and if the incorrect type can cause even worse complication



Quoting Brenintw (Reply 22):
but she can't carry adrenaline with her because of the storage requirements ..

That is incorrect. Epinephrine Autoinjectors (Epipens, which is the adrenaline injection) do NOT have very strict storage requirements. They should be kept at 25°C (77°F); excursions permitted to 15°C-30°C (59°F-86°F). In fact, the prescribing information specifically says the Epi-Pen should NOT be refigerated. You should talk to your cousin...encourage her to carry her epi-pen!! http://www.epipen.com/epipen_prescribing.aspx


Certain airlines do carry Epi-pens in the Enhanced Medical Kit (EMK) or Doctor's Kit.
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LTU932
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:04 pm

Could the possible alergic reaction also come from a toxine in the water supplied by NM for the mother to prepare the formula?
 
3MilesToWRO
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:41 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 30):
Could the possible alergic reaction also come from a toxine in the water supplied by NM for the mother to prepare the formula?

Unlikely for me. While the water could have been poisonous for some highly strange reason (production process failure?), if we keep to allergy theory it would most probably be the milk, there are many ingredients there, in particular albumins (is it a good word? I'm not an English-speaking chemicist.) which quite often cause problems.

Well, safest way to feed would be breast, but it's not on-demand, if previously stopped.
 
FlyingColours
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:00 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 29):
That is incorrect. Epinephrine Autoinjectors (Epipens, which is the adrenaline injection) do NOT have very strict storage requirements. They should be kept at 25�C (77�F); excursions permitted to 15�C-30�C (59�F-86�F). In fact, the prescribing information specifically says the Epi-Pen should NOT be refigerated. You should talk to your cousin...encourage her to carry her epi-pen!! http://www.epipen.com/epipen_prescribing.aspx


Certain airlines do carry Epi-pens in the Enhanced Medical Kit (EMK) or Doctor's Kit.

True, we have adrenaline avaliable in the EMK however like most of the stuff in there, we are not allowed to touch it, it must be administered by a doctor on board.

A tragic story,

Phil
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Markhkg
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 32):
it must be administered by a doctor on board.

If a paramedic or nurse is on board, can they administer it on the direction of MedLink (or similar medical direction program)?
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FlyingColours
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:37 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 33):
If a paramedic or nurse is on board, can they administer it on the direction of MedLink (or similar medical direction program)?

Yes, however they can also adminster it quickly should a situation deteriorate quickly (ie, before Medikink have been contacted).

Crew under no circumstances can administer anythink out of the EMK barring an Astmah inhaler).

You would be suprised but there is always a medical professional onboard these days.

Phil
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b777a340fan
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
My daughter was born in CCU and we had to make a trip back home to DAC after about 6 weeks on BG, and had no problems. The mother IMHO should have prepared her own meals / bottles in advance, as this was a short enough flight and just warmed it up in the galley by calling up an F/A.



Quoting FlyinHigh (Reply 14):
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 12):
I don't think a baby that young should be allowed to fly.

I've flown with my two kids years ago when one was 11 days old and the other 3 months old. I've also been on many flights where there have been young babies.

Plenty of newborns fly every year on a plane, but statistically speaking, it's the time of their lives where they're the most vulnerable and fragile. Why risk it? I know as a parent, I wouldn't bring my newborn on a flight that young.... sorry.
 
abc9
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 35):
Why risk it? I know as a parent, I wouldn't bring my newborn on a flight that young.... sorry.

Terribly sad story and my sympathies to the family involved.

However let's be clear about someting here - there is no proof that air travel affects infants detrimentally. If there was, the airlines would be first to ban them from flying - as it is, industry practice in the main allows them to fly from 7 days old. I've flown long haul (DUB-LHR-YVR) with my first son when he was 6 weeks old and thankfully there was no problem.

B777A340Fan, I fully respect and understand your opinion as a parent, let's face it, the wellbeing of your offspring will always take precedence over any need to fly, but if you extrapolate your statement above, then you'd wrap your baby son/daughter in cotton wool and never leave the house, as there are risks everywhere at such a young age.

I'm not having a go at you here at all, just looking at it from another perspective.
 
standby87
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:40 pm

Terrible story.

I have 3 children who've been flying since they were 2 months old - including long-haul 12+ hour trips. No problems, it's just hard work especially on overnight flights.

We bring our own water and formula food, mix on board and ask the crew to warm it up.

Mrs S and myself would like to know:

1. Was it the First time the baby had this brand of powder Milk?
2. What was the source of the water? Bottled or from Aircraft tanks?

The fact is, it's more dangerous on the Roads for infants than in an aircraft, but the cause of this death has to be investigated for everyone's benefit in the future.
 
TropicalSQ744
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:49 pm

Well guys.. It isn't so bad.. The baby will be going to limbo.

But wait, the catholic church is closing it down..

Anyway, could it be something to do with the cabin pressure?

[Edited 2006-10-19 15:57:57]
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boacvc10
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 35):
Why risk it? I know as a parent, I wouldn't bring my newborn on a flight that young.... sorry.

CCU = Kolkata, India, where the infant was born. DAC = Dhaka, Bangladesh where we live. Indian rules do not now allow foreign infants (born in India) to be able to obtain residency and they have to leave after Birth to the home country. Also, we don't have any family there, we went due to the excellent clinic and medical facilities in that City. If the Visa was not up, we could have stayed more, but they sent several reminders, as we had to register for a long time stay over there.

[Edited 2006-10-19 16:00:31]
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b777a340fan
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting ABC9 (Reply 36):
I fully respect and understand your opinion as a parent, let's face it, the wellbeing of your offspring will always take precedence over any need to fly, but if you extrapolate your statement above, then you'd wrap your baby son/daughter in cotton wool and never leave the house, as there are risks everywhere at such a young age.

Thank you and I respect your opinion as well. Call me paranoid or whatever, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Just like you wouldn't ski down the slopes after you break a leg, I personally think that bringing a newborn onboard is a risk.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 25):
The mother IMHO should have prepared her own meals / bottles in advance, as this was a short enough flight and just warmed it up in the galley by calling up an F/A.

This was my thought. I have a three-month-old son and a 14-month-old son. (Yep. We're quick workers.) We *always* pack their food and I can't *imagine* taking an air trip without enough formula (and perhaps even water, if you can carry it on!) to make the younger boy's food indefinitely. We don't even take him to church without taking the food and water he needs.

The older boy eats just about anything you throw in front of him, so I wouldn't worry about him too much.
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Markhkg
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 34):
You would be suprised but there is always a medical professional onboard these days.

Ever since BA had that in-flight surgery with two doctors inserting a chest tube to decompress a pneumothorax (collapsed lung) on a flight from HKG-LHR, I've always thought fondly of 747s since a plane that big has to have SOMEONE who has a medical license.  Wink The doctor wryly notes in his journal article, "Planes are not ideal operating theatres". Big grin

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 40):
I personally think that bringing a newborn onboard

I don't think that's paranoid at all. Paramedic responding to pediatric emergencies can find many medical and mental health challenges while treating the child on the ground; God forbid in the AIR it would be MUCH HARDER to perform emergency treatment. Particularly since most of the on-board equipment is designed for adult passengers.
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deltagator
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RE: Baby Dies In Flight To MAD

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:50 am

While a sad story people, including babies, die on planes now and then.

Quoting EZEIZA (Thread starter):
The mother, Yanina Castro, claims that there were no doctors on board while Air Madrid GM in Argentina, Carlos Trellez, says that the baby was trated by five doctors that were on the flight

So now it is the responsibility of the airlines to ensure at least one doctor is on every flight?

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 12):
I don't think a baby that young should be allowed to fly.

Sometimes you just have to travel. What do you suggest? Slow boat to China or something similar?

Edit: Spelling

[Edited 2006-10-19 18:51:16]
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