united757
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Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:17 am

Hello! I just got back from the NBAA convention, and it was great! Every aircraft they had there was spectacular. I got a few pics of the Honda Jet, their only of the exterior though because the mock-up of the interior they had was extremely crowded and I wasn't able to get a picture. Enjoy!

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/united757/DSCN0998.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p40/united757/DSCN0997.jpg
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:45 am

I know that short responses are frowned on on Anet, but your pictures of the HondaJet are very, very cool. Thanks for posting them!
 
ZRHnerd
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:48 am

I second that! It sure is an interesting looking plane, i like the way the attached the engines Big grin
 
united757
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:54 am

Thanks Flalefty!
filler
filler
filler
 
Cadet57
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting United757 (Thread starter):

Is this the actual Jet or a mockup? Either way, cool pics!
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
united757
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:16 am

I'm pretty sure it's the actual jet. They had a second one that was to display the interior which was definatley a mock-up.
 
727200er
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:23 am

The way the nose is and the engine mounting....
It's kinda funny looking. Not bad but odd.
"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:35 am

Why not a conventional engine mount to the back of the plane? Those pylons look like they add alot of unneeded drag.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
Bobster2
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 7):
Why not a conventional engine mount to the back of the plane?

Because the fuel is in the wing. I guess it's a compromise.
"I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn." Jim Morrison
 
gh123
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 7):
Why not a conventional engine mount to the back of the plane? Those pylons look like they add alot of unneeded drag

Because it was a small plane, by mounting the engines on the wing they therefore maximized the size of the cabin. I'm no technician but I when the engines are conventionally mounted there must be a fair but of framework inside of the fuselage to support all of that power from the engines.

I'm sorry that my terminology is not that technical, I don't get everything right but I know that this was the reason why. Good idea, methinks!

G
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 9):
Because it was a small plane, by mounting the engines on the wing they therefore maximized the size of the cabin.

Well, if it makes the plane roomier than the Eclipse then I guess it's worth it. But then again, a Geo Metro is roomier than the Eclipse...
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
gh123
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:00 pm

I don't know so much about those aircraft but what you say makes sense!
 
Mir
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 10):
Well, if it makes the plane roomier than the Eclipse then I guess it's worth it.

The Honda is a lot roomier than the Eclipse. The Honda has space for five in the cabin, as well as a small bar and a bathroom - you won't find that on the Eclipse, which is basically a car with wings - the Honda is really more of a light jet than a VLJ.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
planemaker
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting 727200er (Reply 6):
It's kinda funny looking. Not bad but odd.

The nose shape was determined by CFD programs and wind tunnel testing so as to maintain laminar flow which reduces drag significantly.

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 9):
Because it was a small plane, by mounting the engines on the wing they therefore maximized the size of the cabin. I'm no technician but I when the engines are conventionally mounted there must be a fair but of framework inside of the fuselage to support all of that power from the engines.

You are correct but the increased cabin space is just part of the equation. Mounting the engines on the wing also provide several other, more significant benefits. There was a very good post by Lightsabre on this a short while back that you could search for if you would like some details.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:37 am

Don't they have a model that flies yet?

I wish I could have gone to the NBAA convention again this year. I really enjoyed it last year as I got to go aboard just about every aircraft except for the Miami Dolphins BBJ.
 
jdl1527
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:50 am

the plane in the picture does fly, i have seen it at Oshkosh the last 2 years
 
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vzlet
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 7):
Why not a conventional engine mount to the back of the plane? Those pylons look like they add alot of unneeded drag.

Piggybacking on Gh123's response, this is from the Honda website:
"Conventional wisdom has long held that mounting jet engines over the wing of an aircraft creates unfavorable aerodynamic interference. But through extensive experimentation and testing, Honda engineers discovered an optimal over-the-wing engine mount configuration that actually achieves lower drag than the standard rear-fuselage engine mount design. And because thee are no fuselage-mounted engine supports, interior cabin space is maximized."
"That's so stupid! If they're so secret, why are they out where everyone can see them?" - my kid
 
planemaker
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting Vzlet (Reply 16):
Piggybacking on Gh123's response, this is from the Honda website:

Piggybacking on your response, this is from an excellent HondaJet article in AOPA Magazine...

The most unusual design feature of the HondaJet is the over-the-wing engine mount (OTWEM in Honda parlance). Fujino estimates he spent two to three years working on this one concept alone, bucking traditional wisdom that said putting anything on the trailing edge of the wing would induce unacceptable drag, never mind the heavy structure necessary to support an engine and its vibration and thrust loads. But after years of study, computer modeling, and wind-tunnel testing, Fujino found an optimal placement for the engine pylons that not only doesn't increase drag, it actually decreases drag relative to an airplane with empennage-mounted engines.

http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2005/feat0508.html

Quoting Jdl1527 (Reply 15):
the plane in the picture does fly, i have seen it at Oshkosh the last 2 years

Yes. There are several video clips at the HondaJet website...

http://world.honda.com/jet/
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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N328KF
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:42 am

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 17):
The most unusual design feature of the HondaJet is the over-the-wing engine mount (OTWEM in Honda parlance). Fujino estimates he spent two to three years working on this one concept alone, bucking traditional wisdom that said putting anything on the trailing edge of the wing would induce unacceptable drag, never mind the heavy structure necessary to support an engine and its vibration and thrust loads. But after years of study, computer modeling, and wind-tunnel testing, Fujino found an optimal placement for the engine pylons that not only doesn't increase drag, it actually decreases drag relative to an airplane with empennage-mounted engines.

Unusual, yes. Innovative, no.

When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:56 am

How did they get it to Orange County Convention Center? Did they fly it in to MCO, then disassemble it and truck it to the Center, or did they just truck it right from wherever they keep it?
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 10):
But then again, a Geo Metro is roomier than the Eclipse...

People in Europe don't know what a Geo Metro is. GM sells under Opel and Ford under Ford. You might compare it to a Ford Fiesta, Opel Corsa or a Mini Morris.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 20):
People in Europe don't know what a Geo Metro is. GM sells under Opel and Ford under Ford. You might compare it to a Ford Fiesta, Opel Corsa or a Mini Morris.

Either way, you won't find me on it unless I'm up front.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
flybyguy
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
You are correct but the increased cabin space is just part of the equation. Mounting the engines on the wing also provide several other, more significant benefits. There was a very good post by Lightsabre on this a short while back that you could search for if you would like some details.

I suppose one of these benefits included reduction of cabin noise and vibration as well.

If the Eclipse and Honda Jet were in a beauty contest I think I would go for the Eclipse... because I tend to be a little conservative when it comes to aircraft design convention.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 7):
Why not a conventional engine mount to the back of the plane? Those pylons look like they add alot of unneeded drag.

Let's see if I can remember all of my reasons.

1. Engines on the wing reduce the moment on the wing root. Thus allowing for lighter structure.

2. Vibration. There tends to be an inheret incompatibility of the vibration transmission between an engine, pylon, and the wing. Why engines on the body are notorious for transmitting vibration and reducing airframe fatigue life.

3. Aerodynamics. Engines on the body get a dirty inlet profile due to the boundry layer on the aircraft body. This reduces thrust and thus increases fuel burn.

4. Aerodynamics part II: Engines on the tail acheive best cruise fuel efficiency with the exhaust angles slightly in toward the aircraft centerline. This is a non-optimal thrust vector.

5. Most of the drag is the wings, why have all of that structure to transfer the thrust from the tail forward to the wingbox and then out to the wing? Again, weight savings. Pylons are very aerodynamic and not that heavy... If it adds a cabin benifit, that's even better. But we aerospace engineers tend to think about weight. Always. (But then you find yourself adding ballast to fix balance. Oh, that hurts!)

Now, putting the engines above the wing allows for very short (read light and cheap) landing gear. Also, notice the engines are near the airframe centerline. Thus thrust changes will not induce pitch variation. Although there will be some yaw in an engine out scenario. Much more than with tail mounted engines.

Its late here, so I'm sure I forgot something.

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 22):
I suppose one of these benefits included reduction of cabin noise and vibration as well.

 checkmark 

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 22):
I tend to be a little conservative when it comes to aircraft design convention.

That's ok, but the engines over the wing truely save quite a bit of weight and provide aerodynamic advantages. Thus, I think the design will sell. Its not like its an unproven concept...

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 13):
There was a very good post by Lightsabre

Is that the French spelling of my username?  Wink

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:50 pm

http://world.honda.com/HondaJet/

They have an excellent website with a nice, multi-media presentation of the new jet.

With a nice-big cabin, an 1,180 nm IFR range and 420 Kt. speed, this is going to be a winner!
 
corey07850
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:58 pm

The HondaJet was cool, but meeting Burt Rutan while checking out the HondaJet was even cooler  Smile

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/corey07850/P1010136.jpg

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 19):
How did they get it to Orange County Convention Center? Did they fly it in to MCO, then disassemble it and truck it to the Center, or did they just truck it right from wherever they keep it?

Talking to all the aircraft manufacturers, they fly them into MCO, ORL, etc then they dissassemble them and ship them over to the convention center... It's pretty neat to watch them put them back together, wish I had my camera when they were doing it... The Adam aircraft team said it takes about 4 hours for them to reassemble the plane... not too bad
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:00 am

NBAA is done now, so did it fly out of MCO/ORL or did it get trucked out?
 
corey07850
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RE: Honda Jet Pics From Nbaa

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 26):
NBAA is done now, so did it fly out of MCO/ORL or did it get trucked out?

I don't know... We had our booth packed up and gone before they started breaking down the aircraft... The HondaJet flew into MCO, so I assume that's where it will leave from