bravo7e7
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Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:01 am

Just heard that LH will be adding another daily flight for DTW-FRA come March.

Flight looks like this:
Lufthansa
LH 487 Detroit Metro (DTW), Detroit, Michigan, USA
Terminal EM 21:55
Frankfurt Int'l (FRA), Frankfurt, Germany
Terminal 1 11:55+1 day(s)
Non-stop
333 8h00min Daily


While I don't have a press release yet, this is official. Hope this can benefit someone in either the DTW or FRA area...

Cheers!
 
neilalp
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:27 am

 bigthumbsup 
That's great!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:52 pm

Two daily flights indeed next summer:

LH442 FRA DTW 1315 1615 - daily A333
LH443 DTW FRA 1815 0815 - daily A333

LH486 FRA DTW 1705 2005 - daily A333
LH487 DTW FRA 2155 1155 - daily A333

That is quite astonishing as DTW does not offer any onward connections to speak of.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:02 pm

The international gates at the Worldgateway sure will be busy next summer with this new flight, plus NW's new 757 Trans-Atlantic flights.

That means that they will be used more for their intended purposes. Of course LH will move over to the new North Terminal when it opens in 2008.
 
DIA
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:09 pm

I wonder if DEN will see this happen as well...until LH starts flying the A380 to DENSmile
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:11 pm

Why two LH flights since LH isn't even in Sky Team? You would think that KLM would come back or Air France would add a second flight. Is there enough market to fill two A333s? You would think that LH would bring in a A346 or 744 first. Maybe that will eventually leave the option open for LH to bring an A380 to DTW down the road if there is that much demand.
 
speedbird203
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:45 pm

Tut Lufthansa!! If anyone i would want that BA flight to add another lol. That's strange, I thought LH would add another route or an permanent aircraft upgrade as usually they sometimes switch that 333 to a A340-300, So sales must be really good on this flight, Like i said before anything pops up about DTW i'm desperately in a rush to find out lol. I regularly fly BA203 and 202 from and to LHR that's probably why, It will be cool to see another LH flight into the metro though, I just thought BA might either make an upgrade or another flight on the route, Will be interesting though, I thought LH would put just a single 744 on the LH 442 flight, But i guess this is even better! lol . That new schedule is pretty tight, Hope there isn't any long delays.  Wink
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ZRH
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting SpeedBird203 (Reply 6):
That's strange, I thought LH would add another route or an permanent aircraft upgrade as usually they sometimes switch that 333 to a A340-300,

Actually the 330-300 and 340-300 have exactly the same size. The only difference is the range. Therefore they probably can take more freight on the 340 but not more passengers.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:28 pm

I wonder that there is no morning departure. Both flights are relatively late and missing the morning bank to North America.Usually an 10:00 o'clock departure from Europe is interesting for business pax who want to show up in the office for the afternoon.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:54 pm

Very surprising and unexpected - I did not think that Detroit was such a strong and well peforming station for LH. Two daily A333s is a lot of seats.....especially considering that LH and NW do not have any special working relationship (Star vs SkyTeam) concerning connections in Detroit.

Two possibilities:

LH is doing very well with passengers travelling between Detroit and the Middle East/Gulf/eastern Europe.

LH landed a major contract with one of the automakers and needs the seats to satisfy that contract.

LH's new second flight on DTW-FRA is especiailly interesting since BA seems to struggle with its DTW-LHR service, flying a 763ER on the route and now flying IAH-DTW-Heathrow to keep the airplanes filled.
 
ZRH
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:38 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
LH landed a major contract with one of the automakers and needs the seats to satisfy that contract.

There you could be right. Daimler-Chrysler probably?
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:41 pm

There is an "automobile cluster" around Frankfurt, many contracting companies in that business here in the area, plus Opel (GM) of course. Many companies in that business have located here because of the airport. That is the basic traffic which is high yield even in Y since many flights may be booked on short notice.
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HB-IWC
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:46 pm

Further to the extra FRA DTW roundtrip, Lufthansa is also adding an extra daily FRA EWR flight next summer, also bringing the total to two daily:

LH402 FRA EWR 1255 1515 - daily B744
LH403 EWR FRA 1715 0630 - daily B744

LH482 FRA EWR 1715 1955 - daily A333
LH483 EWR FRA 2150 1125 - daily A333

I wonder whether NW and/or CO will retaliate with additional capacity into FRA.
 
Dtw757
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:55 pm

Strange that NW has not pursued adding a second DTW-FRA flight all these years.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
LH's new second flight on DTW-FRA is especiailly interesting since BA seems to struggle with its DTW-LHR service, flying a 763ER on the route and now flying IAH-DTW-Heathrow to keep the airplanes filled.

Is that really the case? I looked at a current BA schedule and it shows DTW-LHR nonstop. Also this route has been operated by 777 at times.
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
fedexexpress
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:58 pm

DTW doing quite well i would say!
"Its not what your country can do for you its what you can do for your country" JFK
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:03 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 13):
Is that really the case? I looked at a current BA schedule and it shows DTW-LHR nonstop. Also this route has been operated by 777 at times.

See: BA LHR-DTW Time Changes (by SpeedBird203 Oct 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:28 pm

I was spotting with someone at DTW a couple weeks ago and he was telling me he heard that the BA flight would go through DTW twice during the day, once on the way to IAH and then on the return back to LHR.
 
Dtw757
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 15):
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 13):
Is that really the case? I looked at a current BA schedule and it shows DTW-LHR nonstop. Also this route has been operated by 777 at times.

See:
BA LHR-DTW Time Changes (by SpeedBird203 Oct 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)

I see on the schedule now where the flight is operating IAH-DTW-LHR and opposite on the return. That makes sense that it would be nonstop DTW-LHR then. What confused me to begin with is that I confused IAH with IAD. Helps when you have the right airport in mind. LOL
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 17):
What confused me to begin with is that I confused IAH with IAD. Helps when you have the right airport in mind. LOL

An easy mistake to make, because the BA flight for many years routed DTW-IAD-LHR.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
speedbird203
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:28 am

Its unfortunate that the BA flight is having a bit of a stuggle, I didn't expect it when flying as the aircraft looked like a pretty full load, But things change i realise. I remember when BA used to have there 744 and 772 on the flight, Grr why did it change lol.
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LHUSA
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:57 am

Wow... Double-daily to DTW. Looks like it's more the flexibility of offering two flights for the business pax than simply adding extra capacity wit a 744. I wonder how NW is going to react?
 
Dtw757
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
An easy mistake to make, because the BA flight for many years routed DTW-IAD-LHR.

I think for a while it was routed DTW-YUL-LHR as well.

Quoting SpeedBird203 (Reply 19):
Its unfortunate that the BA flight is having a bit of a stuggle, I didn't expect it when flying as the aircraft looked like a pretty full load, But things change i realise. I remember when BA used to have there 744 and 772 on the flight, Grr why did it change lol.

How do the NW fares compare from LGW to the BA fares from LHR? Perhaps customers are choosing NW?
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
speedbird203
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 21):
How do the NW fares compare from LGW to the BA fares from LHR? Perhaps customers are choosing NW?

From my understandings, NWA are higher in fares than BA, That's why i tend to travel with BA, However if you go to NWA.com and proceed with booking a flight you can actually view a live seat map of how busy that flight is, And when i last checked there were alot of empty seats, I thought many people would choose BA from LHR, than NWA from Gatwick.
Metro Tower 135.0
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:19 am

Back when it was BOAC flying the VC-10 it was DTW-BOS-LHR
 
toltommy
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:22 am

NW also has the benefit of feeder traffic DTW, where BA does not. I don't think BA does enough marketing in DTW, especially when it comes to pointing out that they use the much more convenient London airport....
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 21):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 18):
An easy mistake to make, because the BA flight for many years routed DTW-IAD-LHR.

I think for a while it was routed DTW-YUL-LHR as well.

Actually, it was routed DTW-YMX (Montreal Mirabel)-LHR, because transatlantic flights were not allowed to use Dorval for many years.

BA had full local traffic rights between Detroit and Montreal. The only time I flew BA from Detroit to London, only four passengers got off at Mirabel; the next morning at LHR, I actually saw one bag tagged YMX on the baggage belt; BA forgot to unload his bag and it went all the way to London without him Sad
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
BAtriple7
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:33 am

This is excellent news for us European DTW lovers.

Quoting SpeedBird203 (Reply 22):
From my understandings, NWA are higher in fares than BA

This is not always the case. However I'd choose NW anyday, just because their A330s are newer, and the IFE is a lot better than on BA's manky 767s...
 
dc10srule
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:52 am

Previously stated:
"There is an "automobile cluster" around Frankfurt, many contracting companies in that business here in the area, plus Opel (GM) of course. Many companies in that business have located here because of the airport. That is the basic traffic which is high yield even in Y since many flights may be booked on short notice."

I agree with the above and the likely connection of this flight to customers from this sector.

Many years ago I used to work at the Windsor Airport (CYQG) - just across the river from Detroit - which also saw its small share of automotive industry related traffic.

Regarding the BA flight to DTW - wasn't it routed through YYZ at one time as well??

JA
Giggity-Giggity..!
 
speedbird203
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting BAtriple7 (Reply 26):
This is not always the case. However I'd choose NW anyday, just because their A330s are newer, and the IFE is a lot better than on BA's manky 767s...

Now i'm gonna complain about that statement... There not manky lol, They have been upgraded, They have a new In Flight System, And i love the 767, Its a nice aircraft, I'd choose it over the 333 anytime.  Smile
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BAtriple7
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting SpeedBird203 (Reply 28):
Now i'm gonna complain about that statement... There not manky lol, They have been upgraded, They have a new In Flight System, And i love the 767, Its a nice aircraft, I'd choose it over the 333 anytime

Hmmmm, you wouldn't be a certain BA 767 pilot I know, would you?  Wink
 
IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:25 am

I read on this site that NW will start flying from DTW to DUS next year. I am curious why LH did not chose MUC for its second daily flight from DTW. LH offers flights to both FRA and MUC from many American cities. After all, MUC is LH's second hub, and much of the auto industry in Germany is located in the south of the country.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 30):
I read on this site that NW will start flying from DTW to DUS next year. I am curious why LH did not chose MUC for its second daily flight from DTW. LH offers flights to both FRA and MUC from many American cities. After all, MUC is LH's second hub, and much of the auto industry in Germany is located in the south of the country.

Three reasons come to mind:

1. MUC is solid STAR alliance territory, with many premium/business travellers loyal to LH and other STAR carriers which dominate MUC. MUC can be a difficult airport for non-STAR members.....filling the airplanes is not a problem, but yeilds can be problematic since premium pax stick with the STAR carriers leaving just lower fare leisure pax for other carriers.

2. DUS has less service to the US.....NW, I think, is trying to take advantage of an underserved niche.

3. DTW-MUC is a bit longer than DTW-DUS....not much, but several hundred miles. It does not sound like much, but NW will be running these flights with a 752 and Munich could be just beyond practical limits. Consider that NW must take many things into consideration, including heavy loads, high winds, weather conditions, ATC delays, and the like.....my feeling is that MUC to DTW with a 752 could become a bit of a headache for the operations people and the dispatchers on winter days where weather and winds are intense, and during the summer when loads are peaking and ATC are a major factor.
 
IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 31):
Three reasons come to mind:

1. MUC is solid STAR alliance territory, with many premium/business travellers loyal to LH and other STAR carriers which dominate MUC. MUC can be a difficult airport for non-STAR members.....filling the airplanes is not a problem, but yeilds can be problematic since premium pax stick with the STAR carriers leaving just lower fare leisure pax for other carriers.

Thank you. I understand why NW chose DUS for its second destination in Germany. My question is why LH did not choose to MUC for its second daily flight from DTW. LH flies to both its FRA and MUC hubs from many American cities.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 32):

Thank you. I understand why NW chose DUS for its second destination in Germany. My question is why LH did not choose to MUC for its second daily flight from DTW. LH flies to both its FRA and MUC hubs from many American cities.

I misread your post, sorry.......although I think that I did a good job explaining NW's decision to launch DUS!  Smile  Smile

Why is LH running a second flight to FRA (instead of a MUC service).....as I stated above, I think that the new flight is being launched in connection with LH landing a major contract with a major corporation (auto related, I assume) and many seats, including lots of premium seats, on a daily/weekly basis between DTW and FRA are needed. Doesnt Ford have many offices in the Cologne area for its European operations, and doesnt GM have its Opel division based near Frankfurt? A major contract with a company like GM is the perfect reason for LH to launch a new flight with minimum risk.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:55 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
The international gates at the Worldgateway sure will be busy next summer with this new flight, plus NW's new 757 Trans-Atlantic flights.

IT's not about connections at DTW, it's about connections at DTW and originating connecting traffice at DTW through FRA and back.
 
IAD380
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:15 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 33):
I misread your post, sorry.......although I think that I did a good job explaining NW's decision to launch DUS!    

Why is LH running a second flight to FRA (instead of a MUC service).....as I stated above, I think that the new flight is being launched in connection with LH landing a major contract with a major corporation (auto related, I assume) and many seats, including lots of premium seats, on a daily/weekly basis between DTW and FRA are needed. Doesnt Ford have many offices in the Cologne area for its European operations, and doesnt GM have its Opel division based near Frankfurt? A major contract with a company like GM is the perfect reason for LH to launch a new flight with minimum risk.

Thank you, Dutchjet. Your explanations about NW's decision to launch service to DUS and LH's decision to chose FRA, not MUC, for its second daily flight from DTW are clear and well-reasoned. You did an excellent job in answering all my questions. Thank you.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:19 am

I remember when DL was flying out of DTW to LGW Non stop. That was after they bought the Pan Am rights. I wish they would bring back that flight. Since NW and DL are in the skyteam, that would bost the flights the London. Most people do not like going through LHR because of all of the construction and the large amount of people changing planes to go else where. I know when I have a group or when I go. I advoid LHR as much as possible. It is a mad house any time of the day or night.

chuck
 
dutchjet
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 36):
I remember when DL was flying out of DTW to LGW Non stop. That was after they bought the Pan Am rights. I wish they would bring back that flight. Since NW and DL are in the skyteam, that would bost the flights the London. Most people do not like going through LHR because of all of the construction and the large amount of people changing planes to go else where. I know when I have a group or when I go. I advoid LHR as much as possible. It is a mad house any time of the day or night.

chuck

Delta SOLD that authority to NW........DL can no longer fly DTW-London.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 34):
IT's not about connections at DTW, it's about connections at DTW and originating connecting traffice at DTW through FRA and back.

this is probably quite true.

Quoting IAD380 (Reply 30):
I am curious why LH did not chose MUC for its second daily flight from DTW.

as stated above, this must be seen in connection with traffic flows through FRA. I would have expected a second daily to DTW to be served from MUC as well. apparently, there either is a major contract with one or more companies from the greater FRA region or major traffic from a region which is not adequately served by LH from MUC.
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
JoFMO
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:46 am

Although the motor industry is big around Munich, neither Audi nor BMW has a bigger interest in Detroit.

FRA is much better located in regards to car factories in Germany with links to big three in the USA.
Opel is 5 suburban railway stations from FRA. It also has factories in Kaiserslautern and Eisenach, both not far from FRA. There is also Ford in Cologne, just one train hour from FRA. Althouth Daimler flies a daily corporate A319 from Stuttgart to Pontiac, their might be additional traffic which has to go via FRA when the corporate jet is full.

So it might wonder that LH starts a 2nd flight to DTW, but not the fact that they do it from FRA.
 
hjulicher
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:45 am

Aren't VW Audi Bentley headquarters in Auburn Hills, MI? A suburb of Detroit? I think that they are interested in Detroit, it's just that this wasn't their bid to Lufthansa. I think it's interesting that DTW doesn't have service to STR. It would seem sensible, but since DCX has it's own jet, I guess there's no traffic on this route. Odd that Ford or GM don't have their own jets like DCX to send over their employees.
LH 442
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Lufthansa Adds Extra Daily Frequency DTW-FRA!

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 40):
Aren't VW Audi Bentley headquarters in Auburn Hills, MI? A suburb of Detroit? I think that they are interested in Detroit, it's just that this wasn't their bid to Lufthansa. I think it's interesting that DTW doesn't have service to STR. It would seem sensible, but since DCX has it's own jet, I guess there's no traffic on this route. Odd that Ford or GM don't have their own jets like DCX to send over their employees.

VW's American headquarters are in the Detroit area. I believe they use a BBJ, I have seen pictures of it at PTK