Coelacanth
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Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:26 am

It's Boeing's race to loose at this point . Also worth mentioning is the A350 and its delayed launch . The guys at Airbus , without doubt , have a lot on their plate .

Coelacanth

 old 

http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...ile=Business_News2006102044047.xml


Boeing aims to keep Airbus at 'bay'
Web posted at: 10/20/2006 4:40:47
Source ::: AFP
shanghai • Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.

"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."


[Edited 2006-10-20 04:32:41]
 
baron95
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project,

Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
osiris30
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?

Well he isn't exactly being loud. They do need to publically state every once in a while that things are ontrack. It's important to remember that Airbus's woes have shaken not only confidence in Airbus, but in Boeing as well. As long as it isn't a rubbing it in their face, and sticks to facts, and isn't every other day (ala Leahy) then it's a good move IMHO.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
kaitak
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:03 pm

I agree; they are just making a comment, but I also agree that all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08, as they originally said they would and that would speak louder than any words they could possibly say. And those who particularly need to know it - the airlines - would hear it loud and clear.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:09 pm

I agree with you guys , as a public company they have to occasionally come and state what and how the progress is with their high risk - high payoff efforts specially when due to A380 troubles the opinion of shareholders and market analysts can get cautionary regarding boeing aswell as it is also in the process of developing a new aircraft .
 
steeler83
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
Boeing aims to keep Airbus at 'bay'
Web posted at: 10/20/2006 4:40:47
Source ::: AFP
shanghai • Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08, as they originally said they would and that would speak louder than any words they could possibly say. And those who particularly need to know it - the airlines - would hear it loud and clear.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! "Victory is mine!" - Stewie Griffin, and anyone working for Boeing once this occurs  Wink
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! "Victory is mine!" - Stewie Griffin, and anyone working for Boeing once this occurs

He never wins though. His grand schemes are foiled by lack of planning or inability to control the scale of the endeavor or the unintended consequences or the unforeseen obstacles. Sounds more like Airbus right now...
'

[Edited 2006-10-20 05:43:59]
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ken777
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Why not be quiet when the other guy is in trouble?

Like Leahy?  Smile
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:42 pm

US NEWS did an interview With Randy Baseler who talks about airbus troubles , 787 etc here -

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/articles/061019/19boeing.htm
 
Asturias
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

That was a fair comment and informative to those who have a stake in the B787

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
That was not necessary and rather cheap.

I dont think that it was cheap . Not necc. maybe but nothing cheap , It was an accurate assesment of when Airbus is going to land its cometition in the market and that factually is going to be several years ( atleast 4) after the EIS of the dreamliner . I think talking about market strategies and how one company's market outlook varies from the other is perfectly ok it is when one starts to trash other's product or gain mileage out of other's current woes is when it gets out of hand. I think Boeing has so far shown a good calculated response to questions regarding the 380 delays and production troubles at airbus and have taken the conversation to their own products and their strategy and market outlook . It is perfectly Ok for the PR and program guys to boast of their own market strategy and the competance or timing of the product while it inst all that ethical to trash the other's product or current state of affairs .
 
M27
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:37 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

We don't know the context of these statements. It seems the "we are confident we won't have those problems" was in response to some question, but we don't know exactly what that was. Also the "They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace" could be a response to a question such as-What do you think of the new A350XWB from Airbus? Perhaps there was more to this answer than was quoted.
 
Areopagus
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:19 pm

I think the most interesting part was the last paragraph:
Now that the 787 Dreamliner is underway, what's the next airplane you have to think about? We're thinking now about the follow-on to the 737. ...
pointing out that they are looking at the tradeoffs of price, maintenance costs, and fuel economy.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:52 pm

I thought that Mr. Baseler's (Randy's) comments were very fair and even-handed, even though he is obviously very proud of Boeing, and rightfully so.

I'm pleased that Boeing believes in healthy competition, because a decrepit Airbus really doesn't benefit anyone. A monopolistic market stands a good chance of stagnation -- until the next big upstart overturns the apple cart.

If, as I think it will, Airbus regains most of its health in a few years, then we could soon have the kind of competition between Boeing and Airbus that could be to the advantage of all -- the passenger, the airline, the manufacturer, and everyone in between.

Being arrogant or complacent in this business -- something that, perhaps, some people in management at various companies were, in the past -- doesn't usually lead to good things. Boeing cannot afford to sit on its laurels in a rapidly changing economy, and I'm glad to see from Randy's comments, as well as from other comments coming from elsewhere in Boeing's executive suites, that it isn't about to do so.

Well done, Boeing. Well done. Keep up the good work.

[Edited 2006-10-20 08:55:51]
What's fair is fair.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:48 pm

That suggests that Boeing is confident they can recover from the schedule slips they had so far. Word is that Alenia currently is the weak link in the fuselage structure supply chain. Boeing has reportedly dispatched an additional 200 engineers to Italy. Things like this are inevitable in a program of this magnitude and are no drama, especially given the comparably high level of innovation. It would be quite naive to assume that Boeing will execute exactly to plan. Nevertheless, based on what I know at his time I'd regard speculation on overall 787 program delays of more than a few months as "wishful thinking".
 
cobra27
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:43 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):

Like Leahy? Smile


Where is the Big mouth, hiding behind a rock somewhere? I am starting to miss him
 
Coelacanth
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:36 pm

 checkmark 

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
I agree; they are just making a comment, but I also agree that all Boeing has to do to make Airbus look bad is to deliver that first 787 on the 28th April '08,



Agreed Irish,
It's a simple plan for Boeing , don't F it up and deliver the 787 on time !!! Another question is how much Boeing can take advantage of Airbus's weak Widebodies segment . Which is soft since Airbus have very little to offer until , [possibly] , - 2014 !

Coelacanth

 old 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-10/20/content_713052.htm

Boeing 787 set to fly past rival A350 in China
(Shanghai Daily)
Updated: 2006-10-20 11:15

Boeing Co's new 787 Dreamliner is expected to beat rival Airbus SAS 350 jetliner in the Chinese market as the company has secured 60 orders from Chinese airlines, Boeing officials said in Shanghai yesterday.

"It's a competitive market but Boeing is expected to take more than half of the market (on such planes) as we have the advantage in timing," said Michael Bair, vice president and general manager of the 787 Program at Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

Robert Laird, BCA vice president of China sales, said China is set to be the world's fastest-growing aviation market in the next 20 years with an annual nine percent growth in passengers and 15 percent in cargo.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:05 pm

http://81.144.183.107/Articles/2006/...ssenger+747-8+order+this+year.html

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
Boeing Co., said yesterday its new long-haul 787 jet would be delivered to global airlines on time, giving the US aviation giant an expected commanding lead over rival Airbus.

"We are confident that we won't have those problems," Michael Bair, Boeing Vice-President and General Manager of the 787 project, said at a promotional event held in Shanghai.

I wouldn't get to emotional about it. Earlier this year Baseler said he expected 747-8i orders this year ( http://81.144.183.107/Articles/2006/...ssenger+747-8+order+this+year.html and he was "confident in the campaigns going on” with 25 airlines and sell 600 747-8's.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...&s=747-8i+boeing+expects#ID2439125

Now the situation has changed, the 747-8i has been further improved. Boeing is happy with where they are, the airlines show overwhelming interest and the first orders for the 747-8 passenger are expected early 2007.

What?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
wingman
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:33 pm

Really Keesje, nowhere in the printed world does anyone at Boeing ever make such a comment. You just pull these fantastic lies right out of thin air. Are you a graduate of the John Leahy School of Drivel? Why just check out the link to the right of the linked "proof" to see what you should really be concerned with...that would be John Leahy word for word saying Boeing are fools and that he'll sell 1600 380's. Great sales guy once upon a time but now reduced to inane comments that are based on delusion.
 
Joni
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

I agree, I bet Airbus didn't expect the current problems at a similar point in the Superjumbo program. And Boeing might even not know the timebombs simmering in the Japanese plants. But let's keep our fingers crossed they do deliver the B787 on time, Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

In this case perhaps, but

The 737NG was several years behind the A320 family

The 777 was several years behind the A330/40/MD11...and Boeing used this time to make a better plane

The 787 is several years behind the A330 (especially the A332), which has had an effective monopoly of this segment for several years

The 747-8 would have been several years behine the A380, if Airbus hadn't cocked it up so badly!

Pride cometh before the fall...
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:00 pm

Isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?

You forgot to say the 767 was several years after the A300  butthead 

Thank god we have Airbus or Boeing would never be able to come up with a fresh idea
 
Asturias
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 21):
Pride cometh before the fall...

Indeed. I don't mind a little pride now and then and a proudful blanket statement like the one above ("They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace.") is not that bad. It could have been way worse.

I'm not up in my arms about this, it just struck me as a cheap shot. Which it is.

Maybe Airbus will respond to a little prodding by Boeing with redoubled efforts to get back on track..

cheers

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

Since the 777 was delivered in 1994:

737NG off the ground and doing extremely well vs the A320
772LR/773ER - drove the A340 off the market. Airbus should just close up tthat line as far as the airlines are concerned.

So your ridiculous assertion that Boeing hasn't gotten anything off the ground since the 777 is ludicrous. If I were you I would be worried about the bloated wire-challenged A380 and the A350hwatever non-starter.

I guess this is your idea of fighting back since your beloved Airbus became a victim of its own hubris and arrogance....demeaning the competition that has been putting together a string of sales vistories since early 2005.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Johnny
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:07 pm

@ Clickhappy

"isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?"

Isn´t that cool that since the start of the A32x-Family Airbus has sold more A32xs as Boeing 737s..?

"You forgot to say the 767 was several years after the A300"

- yes, but only later than the old A300B2/B4s...
- the A300-600 came out 1984 and the A310-200,which is part of the A300/310-Family and competes with the B767-200 came out in 1982...

I guess it is fair to say that both A and B came out later with some models, that is normal!
 
AirbusA6
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:17 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
Thank god we have Airbus or Boeing would never be able to come up with a fresh idea

My point is that the original quote from Michael Bair is dubious, as there's no set time for when an aircraft should be in service.

Is I wanted my 250 seater in 2005, the 787 would be late, if I wanted it in 2010, then the proposed A350XWB would be late etc.

Hopefully, Airbus and Boeing will spur each other on to leapfrog each other.

Boeing and MD got compacent in the 80s, then Airbus produced the far more modern A320.

If Airbus hadn't produced the A330, would Boeing still be producing 767 derivatives instead of the all new 777?

Airbus got smug in the late 90s, but then Boeing fought back with the significantly better 787.
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

That's not cheap. That's simply fact!
Good goes around!
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Wingman (Reply 19):
Really Keesje, nowhere in the printed world does anyone at Boeing ever make such a comment. You just pull these fantastic lies right out of thin air. Are you a graduate of the John Leahy School of Drivel? Why just check out the link to the right of the linked "proof" to see what you should really be concerned with...that would be John Leahy word for word saying Boeing are fools and that he'll sell 1600 380's. Great sales guy once upon a time but now reduced to inane comments that are based on delusion.

Words of Wisdom for the Flag Waivers.  checkeredflag 
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 26):
My point is that the original quote from Michael Bair is dubious, as there's no set time for when an aircraft should be in service.

Uh, 787 delivery date to ANA is April 28, 2008. 18 months from now.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 18):
I wouldn't get to emotional about it. Earlier this year Baseler said he expected 747-8i orders this year

Apples and oranges. You're comparing Randy's comment which the he does not have any control whatsoever to the end result, while Bair has control over the production.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 23):
I'm not up in my arms about this, it just struck me as a cheap shot. Which it is.

let see what he said :

Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

787 EIS in 2008 with ~400 planes on order. A350XWB EIS in 2012 the earliest with technically 0 on order, since it's not launched yet.

A350 is several years behind 787 in the market place. I do not see anything wrong with that. He was just stating the fact. He didn't even comment about which plane is better. Get over it man.

BTW I love this comment from Randy:

Quote:
Is Boeing benefiting from Airbus's stumbles? Not really. I'm not aware of any A380 cancellations. Besides, if a customer came to us and said we want a 777 or a 747 and here's a big pile of money, we couldn't meet the demand. Our order book is full for the next few years.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
mptpa
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
Quoting Coelacanth (Thread starter):
"They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace."

That was not necessary and rather cheap.

Face it...it is a fact! Let the customers and market decide, and the Market has spoken. Boeing has to give an assessment of how heir projects are going given the customer concerns and news releases related to B787 1st piece problems, and how that might affect the EIS and also to let the market know that the risks are being tackled as they arise and the "dot keeps moving along the timeline, not stagnant".

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
Word is that Alenia currently is the weak link in the fuselage structure supply chain. Boeing has reportedly dispatched an additional 200 engineers to Italy.

This is another testament to how they are tweaking the resources as the risk sharing partners encounter problems as they happen. They must do this to keep the supply chain alive and flowing should they have to to maintain the EIS date. Very efficient and effective in Boeing's part to reallocate resources like this in this early stages.

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

But do not forget that B777 family has been extended, the performance has been improved and the product is formidable with no real competition... That is nothing to sniff at!! Not a bad product extension and market positioning... same goes for B737NG: a basic 40 year old design still doing hot sales.... same goes for B777 and B747. That shows the soundness of the basic design of the airframe.

In summary, competition is great for all: airlines get improved products; innovation gets the boost and great for both companies.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:02 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 18):
Now the situation has changed, the 747-8i has been further improved. Boeing is happy with where they are, the airlines show overwhelming interest and the first orders for the 747-8 passenger are expected early 2007.

What?

Right, Keesje. Once someone makes a statement, they are forever after bound by it. NASA originally projected the Apollo moon landing for 1968, so by your standard that program was a total failure. sarcastic 

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

This is funny, but not for the reason you intended. wink 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 28):
Words of Wisdom for the Flag Waivers.

Some more truthful words of wisdom:

"It is the very future of Airbus which is in the balance." - Louis Gallois

What can you say? The airliner industry has its peaks and valleys, and right now Boeing is peaking and Airbus is deep in a valley. I hope both the Airbus and Boeing fans aren't fooling themselves about this. The truth is incredibly obvious.
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zvezda
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:37 pm

While the WhaleJet always carried more market risk than the B787, the latter always was more technically ambitious and carried more technical risk. The four WhaleJet delays have increased the importance that Boeing occasionally report on their progress.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

If he is wrong he will have to eat his words - but why not showing confidence when everything seems to be fine?

Quoting Asturias (Reply 10):
That was not necessary and rather cheap.

Definitely not - considering that the competing model will enter service several years later - IF launched, of course...

Quoting Keesje (Reply 18):

I wouldn't get to emotional about it. Earlier this year Baseler said he expected 747-8i orders this year

The year isn't over yet. And Airbus can't deliver many arguments to interested customers for NOT ordering the B748.

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

The B737NG is definitely an amazing achievement, not to forget the B773ER and B772LR models.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
Isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?

I would be shocked if they hadn't - considering Airbus entered the marketplace decades later.  Yeah sure


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Coelacanth
Topic Author
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
Boeing hasn't been able to get anything off the ground since the 777 after all.

The B737NG is definitely an amazing achievement, not to forget the B773ER and B772LR models



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 24):
737NG off the ground and doing extremely well vs the A320
772LR/773ER - drove the A340 off the market. Airbus should just close up that line as far as the airlines are concerned

Lets not forget the 747-8F , which happens to be doing quite well for an over the hill ....... 40 plus year old .

Coelacanth


 old 
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 30):
Apples and oranges. You're comparing Randy's comment which the he does not have any control whatsoever to the end result, while Bair has control over the production.

There are no Two Boeings Randy's en Mike's. Two years ago Mike Bair said 2008 and 2009 Boeing would produce 95 787's, production rate for 2008 and 2009 is said to become nine per month. 118 aircraft during the first 18 months of production.

Should we fix him/them on that next year?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 25):
Isn´t that cool that since the start of the A32x-Family Airbus has sold more A32xs as Boeing 737s..?

You do know that isn't true, don't you? I mean, are you just guessing because you assume it must be true, or have you looked at the numbers and discovered Boeing has sold more 737s (733-739ER) since the launch of the A320.

The A320 has was launched in March 1982, and since then Boeing has orders for 5659 frames not counting October.

The A320 was delivered to AF in March 1988, and since then Boeing has orders for 4710 frames not counting October.

The A320 has a total of 4450 orders according to the Airbus website beginning with the launch orders way back in 1982, and I do not know if it counts October 2006.

By no measure has the A320 family ever outsold the 737 outside of year to year variations. It's been a strong, nearly 50:50 competitor in recent years, but nothing more.

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 30):
He was just stating the fact. He didn't even comment about which plane is better. Get over it man.

Just like American politics, stating facts without emotion is considered "attack."
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 25):
Isn´t that cool that since the start of the A32x-Family Airbus has sold more A32xs as Boeing 737s..?

It would be cool if it were true. Will you show us the numbers?
 
ltbewr
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:49 am

There is need for the heads of Boeing to be resonably optimistic to keep up orders from and deliveries to customers and keep the shareholders happy with good stock prices and dividends. It is a part of doing business, but one that must be carefully done to prevent backlash from many parties.
While I and many others believe that there are no 'forseeable' delays with the 787, of course things can go very wrong very fast. Boeing may have staff flexibility that Airbus doesn't with their business structure, their base in the USA and the use of risk sharing partners that help their goals as to the 787. Their partners have big time money stakes to do the job right and on time. Boeing is deeply involved with their partners to meet those goals and to deal with problems that develop early on. Boeing doesn't seem to have the computer software problems that Airbus has.
Let us hope that Airbus can work out it's problems and Boeing can keep to it's goals - both being healthy and competitive companies is best for everone.
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays

Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 39):
It would be cool if it were true. Will you show us the numbers?

Zvezda asks, Ikramerica delivers!  Smile
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Airbus entered the marketplace decades later.

Boeing 707 first revenue flight: 1958
Airbus A300 first revenue flight: 1974, 16 years later, and 32 years ago.
For perspective, one of Airbus's predecessor/constituent companies produced the Caravelle, which entered revenue service in 1959. Wikipedia says, "The Caravelle was thus the first airliner design to make a clear profit, something that would not be matched again until the 1970s."
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one. I hope he does not have to eat his words.

Boeing has made many low level statements in the past (including the one when the A300 was coming to the market Smile) and time always proved them wrong so it is funny how they are unable to learn from the past.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 23):
Indeed. I don't mind a little pride now and then and a proudful blanket statement like the one above ("They're going to be several years behind us in the marketplace.") is not that bad. It could have been way worse.

I'm not up in my arms about this, it just struck me as a cheap shot. Which it is.

Maybe Airbus will respond to a little prodding by Boeing with redoubled efforts to get back on track..

This is indeed not that bad as usual but when someone has to bash their competitors to make them look better it really shows how weak they are...time will tell.

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 24):
737NG off the ground and doing extremely well vs the A320

Oh yes from a pro Boeing perspective maybe but if you consider that the NG came a decade later and that the A320 family can easy keep up (and even sell better!) than you'll see that the 737NG is far from being good.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 38):
You do know that isn't true, don't you? I mean, are you just guessing because you assume it must be true, or have you looked at the numbers and discovered Boeing has sold more 737s (733-739ER) since the launch of the A320.

Hey you confuse something. The A320 family wasn't complete until 1996 (with the arrival of the A319) and since then the NG has not sold more...how can you compare the whole 737 family (300-500) with only the A320??
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:54 am

August 2007, first flight expected
September 2007, flight testing begins
....
April 2008, first delivery


That is a tight schedule. Very impressive
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:57 am

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 26):
Is I wanted my 250 seater in 2005, the 787 would be late, if I wanted it in 2010, then the proposed A350XWB would be late etc.

A more accurate term would be "unavailable" as 2005 was never a proposed delivery date for the 787 nor 2010 for the A350XWB (though it might have been for the A350NSWB).
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 38):
You do know that isn't true, don't you? I mean, are you just guessing because you assume it must be true, or have you looked at the numbers and discovered Boeing has sold more 737s (733-739ER) since the launch of the A320.The A320 has was launched in March 1982, and since then Boeing has orders for 5659 frames not counting October.The A320 was delivered to AF in March 1988, and since then Boeing has orders for 4710 frames not counting October.The A320 has a total of 4450 orders according to the Airbus website beginning with the launch orders way back in 1982, and I do not know if it counts October 2006.By no measure has the A320 family ever outsold the 737 outside of year to year variations. It's been a strong, nearly 50:50 competitor in recent years, but nothing more.

WOW! Nothing speaks louder than facts, eh Johnny  Smile

I've often wondered why people keep claiming what Johnny claimed -- he's not the first to suggest the A320 has been more successful than the 737 since EIS. The answers are sitting right there on Airbus' and Boeing's respective orders sites. Also, if it were true, Airbus' former leadership would most certainly have crowed about it. In this case, silence tells all.
 
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 42):
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 35):
Airbus entered the marketplace decades later.

Boeing 707 first revenue flight: 1958
Airbus A300 first revenue flight: 1974, 16 years later, and 32 years ago.
For perspective, one of Airbus's predecessor/constituent companies produced the Caravelle, which entered revenue service in 1959. Wikipedia says, "The Caravelle was thus the first airliner design to make a clear profit, something that would not be matched again until the 1970s."

Technically, Boeing has been in business as Boeing since 1916. Of course they weren't making jets the whole time.... Silly

Congrats to Boeing and here's to more smooth sailing.  Smile
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 1):
Pretty bold statement for a guy in charge of an aircraft project that has not even assembled the first one.

Perhaps because the schedule doesn't call for one to be assembled yet?

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
That suggests that Boeing is confident they can recover from the schedule slips they had so far. Word is that Alenia currently is the weak link in the fuselage structure supply chain.

Where is the "word" coming from? You provide no source.
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
Word is that Alenia currently is the weak link in the fuselage structure supply chain.

Ha, somehow I'm not surprised.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
Isn't it cool that Boeing has sold more 737s than Airbus has for all their models?

I know, that's such an interesting statistic. What's the most widely produced civil aircraft of all time? DC-3? Piper Cub? I guess the 737 probably won't hit those numbers, but when all is said and done, it'll have had an extremely impressive run for a multimillion-dollar piece of equipment. Of course, so has the A320 series -- Airbus really hit a home run with that one.
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RE: Boeing Aims To Keep Airbus @ Bay No 787 Delays!

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 43):
h yes from a pro Boeing perspective maybe but if you consider that the NG came a decade later and that the A320 family can easy keep up (and even sell better!) than you'll see that the 737NG is far from being good.

Proof has come from other posters on this thread which I will not re-hash since you wish to live in your own dreamworld.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.