chrisrad
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Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:07 pm

Browsing through the many upper deck photos it has come to my attention that not every 744 has the same style cabin on the upper deck. Some have the old classic style interior the same as the 743 742 741. Why is there a difference, and why would Boeing not update the upper deck cabin when they completely upgraded the main cabin? Or did they keep the old upper deck interior on early build 744's?
Some examples:
Old style, look at the ceiling and side panels

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Photo © Rhys Dudley - TeamJetspotter



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Photo © Montague Smith-WorldWide Aviation Photos



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Photo © B. Amratisha



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Photo © Serge Bailleul - AirTeamImages



New Style:

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Photo © Andrew Hunt - AirTeamImages



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Photo © Marko Suo-Anttila



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Photo © Nick de Jonge



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Photo © C.S. Photography



For reference:
743

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Photo © Chris Finney



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Photo © Tim de Groot - AirTeamImages


742

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Photo © Tim de Groot - AirTeamImages

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ikramerica
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:23 pm

You have a lot of different styles there, not just "new" and "old."

The QF 744 has the most recent factory style interior based on the 777, also adapted to the 767. That's the newest design, and likely the rarest.

Then the original angular ones were from the 1980s, where the 767 had the same bins, as that was their current widebody look.

The SQ picture looks to have a retrofitted bin based on the original flat bins, but with more space. They drop down to open.

Then there is also the rounded 757 style bin with the door that swings up on the MH cabin. Not sure if it was a retrofit or if Boeing offered them this way in the 90s.
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chrisrad
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
You have a lot of different styles there, not just "new" and "old."

The QF 744 has the most recent factory style interior based on the 777, also adapted to the 767. That's the newest design, and likely the rarest.

Then the original angular ones were from the 1980s, where the 767 had the same bins, as that was their current widebody look.

The SQ picture looks to have a retrofitted bin based on the original flat bins, but with more space. They drop down to open.

Then there is also the rounded 757 style bin with the door that swings up on the MH cabin. Not sure if it was a retrofit or if Boeing offered them this way in the 90s.

I wasnt referring to the bin design. The actual ceiling and sidewall are from the classic 747's in some 744's while in others it is a new design. If you can see what I mean.
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andrewtang
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:41 pm

Well it's a customer option which Boeing gave to them few years ago when B777 type of cabin became popular. Airlines simply buy the new cabin walls/ceiling and install. And many of them the upper storage bin as well to make the whole environment more cosy. Due to more headroom space.
 
chrisrad
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:59 pm

I think my point is, why did boeing completely overhaul the cabin for the 744, except the Upper deck? I mean it's seems clearly obvious that it's exactly the same cabin as the older aircraft. You can't say the same about the main cabin which is all new on all 744's from the beggining
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PhilSquares
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 4):
I think my point is, why did boeing completely overhaul the cabin for the 744, except the Upper deck? I mean it's seems clearly obvious that it's exactly the same cabin as the older aircraft. You can't say the same about the main cabin which is all new on all 744's from the beggining

It's not up to Boeing but the customer. They can do what they want within what options Boeing offers.
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ClassicLover
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:55 pm

But of course with QF you then have variances -


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Photo © Jason Milligan



The above is what the ERs and the later build QF 744s have as the upper deck interior.
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chrisrad
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 5):
It's not up to Boeing but the customer. They can do what they want within what options Boeing offers.

Yes, but that still doesnt answer WHY Boeing has an old interior on an otherwise new aircraft?
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terryb99
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:50 pm

There is not much room up there to do much. There is no way the new 777 style bins would fit. So other than new seats, it will pretty much stay the same.

And as several posters have said, it's not Boeing that decides, it's the customer.

I have mixed feelings when I get assigneed a seat upstairs. It's much quieter than being in the "nose" section. But my carryon won't fit in the overhead, so I have to use the "closet" at the top of the stairs(and remember to duck so I don't bump my head while getting it in and out, lol) And on a long haul flights, like the 12 hours I just did from MNL-SFO on PAL, I get in and out of my carryon several times.
 
chrisrad
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Terryb99 (Reply 8):
And as several posters have said, it's not Boeing that decides, it's the customer.

Ok seeing that no one at all understands my point, why would any customer request an outgoing models interior be installed? Did they ask can I have my 744 with a 743 interior please? I doubt it.
Also why is it then that every 744 main deck cabin is the same? Bar the new ER with 777 style option. How come no customer asked for the 743 interior?
Then why is it that it seems that early build 744's have a 743 upperdeck cabin installed? The main cabins all have the new interior, why is the upper deck an exception?
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Boeing Nut
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:35 am

OK, for whatever reason, the system won't let me edit the post which I was trying to do for obvious reasons. I have no idea why the photos were not included, so I'll just repost my original.....

I think I see the thread starters point here.

If you look at these two side to side photos of the fuselage profiles of the 744 and 737NG respectively..


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Photo © Marko Suo-Anttila
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Photo © EDDL Photography



you'll see the circumference is similar. According to Boeing, the difference in cross section between the 744 upper deck, (pg 31) and the 737NG, pg 54 is only two inches, and this does not include the side storage bins on the 744.

With that in mind, it seems as though the 737NG interior could be used on the 744 upper deck. Visualize these two photos on a 744 upper deck.


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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



Regards
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jfk777
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:01 am

Most airlines today have 26 lie-flat(lie flat at an angle) Business Class on the upper deck. Only Lufthansa has put First Class upstairs. Virgin and Air New Zealand have Business and some Premuim economy upstairs, Virgin licensed its BIZ class to ANZ.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Chrisrad (Reply 9):
Ok seeing that no one at all understands my point

We do understand your point - the answer is that different interior schemes (sidewalls, lighting and bins) have been offered by the 744 (both lower and upper decks) over the 15+ years that the aircraft has been in production. New improved interiors were introduced, such as the Signature Style interior based on the 777 design, but not every airline went with this option. Some airlines retained older style interiors for fleet commonality, others may have not liked the new look interior on the 744 upper deck, etc.

The main point is that Boeing will basically build whatever an airline asks for - and the airline makes the final decision as to items such as interior fittings.
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:52 am

Everyone forget the bins, seats, cabin width etc. look at the ceiling and the top of the window panels you will see the older 747 cabin have elongated hexagonal shaped panels whereas the new 747 cabin have rectangular shaped panels.

One thing that interested me was the 2 QF pics the one Chrisrad posted (VH-OJB) has hexagonal panels where ClassicLover posted (VH-OJN) has rectangular panels. Both these aircraft where ordered in at the same time as their first 744 order for 18 frames and both delivered in the same batch. here are the same two pics again


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Photo © Rhys Dudley - TeamJetspotter
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Photo © Jason Milligan



VH-OJB was the second frame first flew August 1989
VH-OJN was the fourteenth frame first flew October 1991
Also looking at the first flight dates of every single 744 pic chrisrad posted every single old config aircraft first flew April 1990 (HS-TGJ) at the latest and the oldest new interior being PH-BFK first flew May 1990

Which leads me to believe that all 744's didn't get the new upper deck look untill Early 1990.

another thing I fing weird is that the VS picture (G-VTOP) was a 1997 production aircraft complete with new rectangular panels but has the old angled 767 style baggage bins circa.1980's


Jason

[Edited 2006-10-22 02:57:36]
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chrisrad
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RE: Differences In Upper Deck Cabin 744

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Vhqpa (Reply 13):
Everyone forget the bins, seats, cabin width etc. look at the ceiling and the top of the window panels you will see the older 747 cabin have elongated hexagonal shaped panels whereas the new 747 cabin have rectangular shaped panels.

One thing that interested me was the 2 QF pics the one Chrisrad posted (VH-OJB) has hexagonal panels where ClassicLover posted (VH-OJN) has rectangular panels. Both these aircraft where ordered in at the same time as their first 744 order for 18 frames and both delivered in the same batch. here are the same two pics again

Thankyou finally someone understands what I'm talking about. You can clearly see it is the classic interior, installed on a new aircraft. Almost as if they had not designed the new one at that stage

Quoting Vhqpa (Reply 13):
Which leads me to believe that all 744's didn't get the new upper deck look untill Early 1990.

Which was my point.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
the answer is that different interior schemes (sidewalls, lighting and bins) have been offered by the 744 (both lower and upper decks) over the 15+ years that the aircraft has been in production

Please show me pics as to where there are different main cabins in the 744? As I said disregarding the new 777 style, the main cabin was offered with the same cabin design in all 744's. Why should the upper deck be different in that regard?
It's like saying can I have my new car with the previous models interior
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