fll2993
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Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:28 am

whjats the point of it being 16000 ft?
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Fll2993 (Thread starter):
whjats the point of it being 16000 ft?


Yes, its very long, but it takes more runway to take off at that altitude. With 16k, DEN can handle pretty much anything in any conditions.
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COERJ145
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:32 am

Probably for full 747s/A380s going to Europe and beyond. Also b/c DEN is a mile above sea level.
 
ehho
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):
Probably for full 747s/A380s going to Europe and beyond.

Now, if there would be anyone doing that. A340/B777 is all that goes, or will ever go to Europe from DEN.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
Charliejag1
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 am

Agreed and agreed.

-5300ft above sea level. This means there is less air to make lift for departing a/c and drag for arriving a/c. It just takes more distance for a plane to takeoff or land as you increase elevation.

-DEN is a major hub. This means there are big widebodies that use the airport, necessitating a long runway.

-It gets cold in Denver. Ice and snow on the runway mean you need more distance to stop. Sometimes this can increase the landing distance by 100% or more. This way, a long-haul widebody won't have to divert nearly as often when DEN is getting a winter storm.

Does anybody know of a civil airport with any runway that is longer than those at DEN? Exclude airports that were built as a military base originally.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 am

Short answer: because there was room!!  Wink

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
Now, if there would be anyone doing that. A340/B777 is all that goes, or will ever go to Europe from DEN.

But you also must consider freighters.

Anyway, it makes it a valid diversion airport for any type, as well. On a flight from NRT-DFW, we diverted to DEN despite being 400 miles out of the way, because everything closer was closed or couldn't handle us...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jamesbuk
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:41 am

Can it handle the space shuttle, like as a diversionary airport?

Rgds --James--
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deltagator
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:43 am

To go along with the altitude I believe high heat can come into consideration as well. With the longer runway you should have less possibility of weight restrictions on takeoff. I was on a flight this summer where they took 15 volunteers off a MD-88 because of the heat.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
ATCme
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:45 am

Altitude, and it gets hot in the summer, especially on black tarmac. Charlie also said ice, which is entirely possible too. We just got a snow/rain thing here and it froze to become black ice almost all over, so I agree with charlie, even though I never thought of it before. (Good idea charlie)

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
A340/B777 is all that goes, or will ever go to Europe from DEN.

I know for a fact that a LH 747 lands there every week direct from Munich and I'm assuming that it goes back the same way. (As my dad has flown on it a few times.) Plus as Ikramerica said, there are a bunch of freighters too. I have seen an AN-24 a few 767s and others land, take off, or be on the tarmac at DEN. (Along with the 777).

ATCme spin 
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ikramerica
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 6):
Can it handle the space shuttle, like as a diversionary airport?

No.

There are very few in the world that can, and very few that are needed anyway.

There are a couple on the eastward flight path from takeoff, and then there is Edwards AFB as an alternate landing site.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:46 am

If I remember correctly, United requested the long runway so that it could fly a 747-400 or a 777 DEN-NRT or other DEN-Asia routes fully loaded year round.

United still hasn't done it, but the runway was built.

The whole of DEN was designed for 24/7/365 operations, regardless of most weather patterns. The 16,000 foot long runway enables the above mentioned diversions as well as hot and high operations and the widebody landings in the cold.

I believe the runways are also heated to keep snow and ice at bay, so to speak.
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EMBQA
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):
Probably for full 747s/A380s going to Europe and beyond

The A380 was not even a design concept when the Denver Airport opened. The runway is long because you need more lenght to take off in high-hot conditions. Denver has both.

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 6):
Can it handle the space shuttle, like as a diversionary airport?

No. It is not one of NASA's selected diversion landing strips.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
3201
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):

Now, if there would be anyone doing that. A340/B777 is all that goes, or will ever go to Europe from DEN.

Not only is it silly to say something will never happen, that is inaccurate in the present also -- there are B744 to Europe from DEN now.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
fll2993
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:06 am

Den has the longest runway in the US right?
 
Vref5
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
There are very few in the world that can, and very few that are needed anyway.

Ah, there are literally dozens of ELS (emergency landing site) locations all over the world. You've got RTLS back to KSC, ECAL to places up the east coast of the U.S. such as Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, TAL to places in Spain, Morocco, and elsewhere, and general ELS sites for emergency landings from orbit. For instance, Stockholm Arlanda (ARN / ESSA) is a designated ELS site.

For a sea level airport, the Space Shuttle normally needs only about 6000 ft of runway assuming normal braking conditions, touchdown point, speed, etc. Not sure how much longer you'd need at a high altitude place like Denver.

NASA's top preference is U.S. military sites for ELS locations because easier to secure as well as less inconvenience to civilian air traffic. However, they do have a mixture of military and civilian airports for the designated ELS sites. Outside the U.S., they take what they can get, within reason. (For instance, they don't operate ELS sites in politically risky locations.)

The full and current list is classified for operational security reasons, but you can find old versions of the list that is probably still 95% the same. They have closed or discontinued use of ELS sites at locations that appears to be risky (politics or security-wise) such as Banjul (BYD) in the Gambia.

In a pinch, a lot more airports could serve as landing sites... NASA just has designated ELS sites since they have trained personnel, procedures, equipment, capacity, facilities, in a suitable location reachable during launch or from orbit, amongst other factors for selection.

But if it came to the worst and the Shuttle couldn't reach a ELS site, then, well, sure, they can dial into VORTACs and give it their best shot at reaching an airport with a suitable runway along their path they can make, ELS or not.

Denver in the summer would probably not be such so fun.  Smile But at 16,000 ft in length, it's possible, I suppose. Do, however, keep in mind that the Shuttle touches down at approx. 195-200 knots -- faster than normal traffic that lands.
 
NWADC9
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):

Now, if there would be anyone doing that. A340/B777 is all that goes, or will ever go to Europe from DEN.

LH has 744's going to FRA

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 13):
Den has the longest runway in the US right?

Correct
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MD88Captain
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:17 am

I got in a situation this summer where I did not have the performance to take-off. 16K is not always enough when it is 98F and the field is over 5,000'. I removed 20 pax and fuel stopped in Memphis. And it still was a sporting takeoff.
 
fll2993
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:26 am

what airlines you fly for?

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 16):
I got in a situation this summer where I did not have the performance to take-off. 16K is not always enough when it is 98F and the field is over 5,000'. I removed 20 pax and fuel stopped in Memphis. And it still was a sporting takeoff.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 13):
Den has the longest runway in the US right?

First runner-up is JFK 13R-31L at 14,572...

Second runner-up is LAS 07L-25R at 14.510...

On the military side, EDWards AFB has a paved one 15,013 feet long, and the longest of the runways on the dry lake bed is 7.5 miles long.. (39,600 feet!)

http://www.edwards.af.mil/history/docs_html/center/lakebeds.html

[Edited 2006-10-22 01:29:15]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jfk777
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:42 am

Denver does have heavy international traffic. British Airways to London & LH to FRA. Its the only midwest European gateway between ORD and Las Vegas.
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting Fll2993 (Reply 17):
what airlines you fly for?

Well...given his screen name and the fact that he lives in the USA, I'd assume you can narrow it down to two airlines...

And back on topic-
I N/R'ed on GQ back to BIL once out of DEN. That was a fun takeoff on a 1900D. The PIC kept it on the runway past the 9,000 foot marker and boy oh boy did that thing climb when we came off the ground...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:24 am

DEN's 16,000 footer is also the only DEN runway that's 200 feet wide. The other 5 runways are all 12,000 x 150 ft.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0610/09077AD.PDF

By the way, almost all major airport runways in Canada are 200 ft. wide, 50 ft. wider than the most common 150 ft. width in the US, although some US commercial runways are 200 ft. All JFK runways are 150 ft. except (ironically) the shortest runway which is 200 ft.

Many airports at much higher altitudes than DEN probably wish they had the luxury of a 16,000 ft. runway.
e.g.
MEX -Mexico City, altitude 7,316 ft, longest runway 12,966 ft
UIO - Quito, Ecuador, altitude 9,228 ft, longest runway 10,236 ft.
LPB - La Paz, Bolivia, altitude 13,325 ft, longest runway 13,123 ft.

I recall departing MEX on a KLM 744 (combi) nonstop to AMS last year, about an 11 hour flight. It seemed like almost all of the 12,966 ft. were used before it lifted off, and the whole aircraft seemed to shudder for about 5 seconds just after liftoff like it really didn't want to fly (I was in the upper deck).

Re LPB, I recall a story (whether true or not I don't know) many years ago when Eastern acquired Braniff's South America routes after BN went bankrupt and shut down (a few years before EA did the same thing and the routes were acquired by AA). EA initially used a B727 from MIA to LPB with a couple of en route stops. According to the story, on the first flight, when the EA 727 parked at the gate at LPB and the cabin door was opened, all the oxygen masks dropped, as the airport altitude is above the usual altitude where oxygen would be required if the aircraft was airborne. They had to make some adjustments to the oxygen system to prevent that from happening on future flights to LPB.
 
waterpolodan
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:30 am

It might even be long enough for an IL86 to take off...
 
BAE146QT
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 14):
However, they do have a mixture of military and civilian airports for the designated ELS sites.

And Zaragoza is both at the same time.

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 14):
The full and current list is classified for operational security reasons, but you can find old versions of the list that is probably still 95% the same.

NASA publishes a list of landing sites - be they for launch emergencies or not - on their own website. For example;

www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/nasafact/tal.htm

Now maybe you know something I don't and maybe that list isn't complete, but there are a limited number of places the orbiter can put down in the event of an emergency and if you'll pardon the expression, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where they are. The flightplan is publicly accessible.

Besides, why would a terrorist plan an attack against a fuel-less dodo the size of a DC10-10, which may or may not have to make an emergency landing at some airport (s)he might be able to get to, when they can take over a nice fat airliner full of fuel and wang it into an occupied building?
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
Vref5
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:16 am

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 23):
Now maybe you know something I don't and maybe that list isn't complete, but there are a limited number of places the orbiter can put down in the event of an emergency and if you'll pardon the expression, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where they are. The flightplan is publicly accessible.

Yep, true on both counts. The Keplerian elements are publically published and readily available. With a little math and some lookups of airport capabilities, one can indeed work out these things given a little time.

http://www.amsat.org/amsat/keps/menu.html
http://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/

The orbiter also has a 3,000 mile cross-range capability (thanks to the wings as well as the original military requirement from the Cold War) where it can deviate from its planned ground track if necessary to make a site. So there are quite a few potential landing sites in addition to the officially designated ELS sites.

Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 23):
Besides, why would a terrorist plan an attack against a fuel-less dodo the size of a DC10-10, which may or may not have to make an emergency landing at some airport (s)he might be able to get to, when they can take over a nice fat airliner full of fuel and wang it into an occupied building?

I seem to recall this particular classification was done prior to 9/11. Don't necessarily assume all things are 9/11-related. Keep in mind the programme had been operating for two to three decades prior to 9/11.

Destroying the orbiter as an attack would obviously have a low casualty count, but it would be spectacular to attack a prominent national status symbol. Increased security obviously resulted post-9/11, though some of it has been relaxed a bit now.

Incidentally, the orbiter is closer to a DC-9-40 in terms of size for length/width as well as wing length, though it does match the DC-10-10 in height. Very expensive Michelin tyres used only once per flight and they put on RAT (roll-around tires; slightly used) tyres to roll the orbiter from the runway.

But here, I think we're veering more into another forum.  Smile
 
SkyWest700
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:19 am

MD88Captain is correct

you can have 100 miles of runway still not be able to takeoff at full max gross weight.

why you may ask? Higher temperatures and alttitudes increase TAS and GS. Airplanes fly off of IAS. Therefore you can reach your tirespeed based on GS before Vr.

Also consider your Vmbe (maximum break energy speed), the speed at which your breaks will melt on an abborted takeoff and will no longer stop the aircraft. that is based on weight and OAT and will be taken into consideration when determining V1.

All in all until they come out with better brakes and better tires that runway was pointless. I see the 747 of LH and 777 of UA use runway 8, and 25, each are 12000 feet more than I see them use runway 16L, 34R
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:28 am

DEN needs a runway of this length given it's elevation (roughly 5,300'). I will amaze you how much runway a 763ER or even a 772ER requires in hot weather at a high altitude airport as several posters above have indicated. If there is a controversy about runways at DEN, it is the number of them (I believe they are up to seven!). I think this was all part of the plan to have all the major carriers (AA, DL, NW in addition to UA and CO) operating a significant hub there.
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BAE146QT
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 24):
Yep, true on both counts.

Read you, 5 by 5.

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 24):
(thanks to the wings as well as the original military requirement from the Cold War)

That'll be the polar orbit mission?

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 24):
but it would be spectacular to attack a prominent national status symbol

Good point, well made. But there are softer targets which would be far cheaper to attack and don't move as fast - as has been proven.

I'm not saying that the orbiter should be undefended, but how on earth could a terrorist organisation predict when a shuttle was going to have to abort? And if they did, how could they predict where and act upon in a cost-effective way?

Quoting Vref5 (Reply 24):
But here, I think we're veering more into another forum.

Maybe see you there, sometime.  Wink

As an adopted native Floridian who saw Columbia's first flight, I've got a soft spot for those ridiculous old dump trucks. Thanks for engaging on this.
Todos mis dominós son totalmente pegajosos
 
SkyWest700
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:37 am

SLCUT2777

DIA has 6 runways and a master plan four 12. There will be parallel 8-26's another 34-16 another 35-17. there will also be a 7-25 put in next to the cargo ramp and the other two I have no idea where they will put them,
 
gigneil
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
The A380 was not even a design concept when the Denver Airport opened. The runway is long because you need more lenght to take off in high-hot conditions. Denver has both.

The A380 was well in progress when the 16000x200 runway was planned, and was already being manufactured when it opened.

NS
 
3201
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):
Well...given his screen name and the fact that he lives in the USA, I'd assume you can narrow it down to two airlines...

Is one of your two Aeromexico? 'Cause as far as I can tell, only one airline in the US flies the -88 right now.  Smile

In any event, the other one you're probably thinking of (which flies -82/-83) wouldn't be fuel-stopping at MEM from DEN.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
remcor
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:25 pm

Wait a minute, 16,000 ft runways? I just measured the runways with Google Earth (goto Tools -> Measure) and they all come up to be only 12,000 ft.

Am I wrong or does the contractor owe the airport another 4000 feet?
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:27 pm

DEN puts their 16,000ft runway to use. Mexico City would love that kind of runway down there. High altitude airports need the space, especially ones with weather and crazy as DEN has.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
On the military side, EDWards AFB has a paved one 15,013 feet long, and the longest of the runways on the dry lake bed is 7.5 miles long.. (39,600 feet!)

If it doesn't get off the ground after like, 20,000 feet of rolling, is it ever going to lift off?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Remcor (Reply 31):
I just measured the runways with Google Earth (goto Tools -> Measure) and they all come up to be only 12,000 ft.

Google Earth satellite photos can be 2-4 years old. IIRC, the runway in question at DEN was 12,000 when the airport opened, and was extended to 16,000 later.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 32):
If it doesn't get off the ground after like, 20,000 feet of rolling, is it ever going to lift off?

I'm no test pilot, but my guess is that it gets more use for really long landing rolls than it does for takeoffs...  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
boeingsukz
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
In any event, the other one you're probably thinking of (which flies -82/-83) wouldn't be fuel-stopping at MEM from DEN.

uhhh... delta comes to mind going to atlanta.
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Goldenshield
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
In any event, the other one you're probably thinking of (which flies -82/-83) wouldn't be fuel-stopping at MEM from DEN.

Airplane + Payload + Fuel <= MTOW

A is constant.

The two sides must agree. If A + P + F > M, then you can sure bet that F isn't the number going to be reduced.
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gigneil
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:48 pm

Quoting Remcor (Reply 31):
I just measured the runways with Google Earth (goto Tools -> Measure) and they all come up to be only 12,000 ft.



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 33):
IIRC, the runway in question at DEN was 12,000 when the airport opened, and was extended to 16,000 later.

Negative... the runway in question was constructed all new. DEN opened with 5 runways.

The 6th runway does not appear on Google Earth.

NS
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
Is one of your two Aeromexico?

Aye...

Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
the other one you're probably thinking of (which flies -82/-83)

I'm pretty sure the other one I'm thinking of flies the -88...

Quoting Boeingsukz (Reply 35):

 bigthumbsup 
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
remcor
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 33):
Google Earth satellite photos can be 2-4 years old. IIRC, the runway in question at DEN was 12,000 when the airport opened, and was extended to 16,000 later.

Yeah, I just noticed that you can see in Google Earth the beginning of the construction of the 6th runway.

I'm probably a fool, but how come big airports in the US need tons of runways (and still have tons of delays) while foreign airports such as Heathrow, Paris (CDG and Orly) and Frankfurt can get away with only 3?
 
steeler83
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 11):
No. It is not one of NASA's selected diversion landing strips.

This may have already been posted, and this may seem off topic, but is there a link where I can find this, or can someone list those on here?

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 15):
Den has the longest runway in the US right?

Correct

So DEN has the longest, then JFK, then Vegas. Where does Tucson fall on that list. Isn't their's supremely long?
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vikkyvik
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 33):
Google Earth satellite photos can be 2-4 years old. IIRC, the runway in question at DEN was 12,000 when the airport opened, and was extended to 16,000 later.

Nope  Smile

The runway didn't exist when the airport opened (there were originally 5 runways - now there are 6). When the runway was built, I believe it was opened at the full length of 16,000 feet. The paved runway simply doesn't exist on Google Earth as of yet, but you can see where they've cleared the ground for it (on the west and northwest side of the airfield, a few thousand feet west of 34 (now 34R)).
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Mir
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
All JFK runways are 150 ft. except (ironically) the shortest runway which is 200 ft.

It's the only CatIII certified runway at the airport, so it makes sense for it to be wider.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 19):
Its the only midwest European gateway between ORD and Las Vegas.

Don't forget MSP, which has flights to AMS.

-Mir
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting SkyWest700 (Reply 28):
DIA has 6 runways and a master plan four 12. There will be parallel 8-26's another 34-16 another 35-17. there will also be a 7-25 put in next to the cargo ramp and the other two I have no idea where they will put them,

I'm more than aware of the DEN master plan, and the eventuality to double up all but one existing runways as well as adding the 7-25 next to the cargo area you mentioned. The plan also calls for eventually adding 3 more concourses the size of "B" (including expanding the current A and C). They wanted an airfield that could be as efficient and handle as much traffic as ORD, ATL and DFW, not to mention a terminal and concourses that could serve as a hub to not just UA, CO & F9, but also to AA, DL and NW.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7071
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RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:17 pm

I think MD88Captain flies for DL. I recall him giving good info on DL.

I have yet to fly into DEN, but I would imagine DEN handles A LOT of Diversions.

I live 20 miles S of KSC and can assure you if worst come to worst, It could land at DEN. I don't think the space shuttle would, b/c of designated locations.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11907
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 42):
It's the only CatIII certified runway at the airport, so it makes sense for it to be wider.

Possibly, but there are plenty of CatIII certified runways that are 150 feet wide. Though I can see what you're saying.

Quoting Remcor (Reply 39):
I'm probably a fool, but how come big airports in the US need tons of runways (and still have tons of delays) while foreign airports such as Heathrow, Paris (CDG and Orly) and Frankfurt can get away with only 3?

To be fair, CDG has 4, and Heathrow only uses 2.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 40):
Where does Tucson fall on that list. Isn't their's supremely long?

TUS's longest is 10,996 feet long. There are a substantial number of longer runways in the US. LAX (11K and 12K), JFK (14K), LAS (14K), DEN (16K, 12K x5), DFW (13K x4), ABQ (13K), SFO(12K), MIA (13K)....that's just off the top of my head.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:24 pm

 
SkyWest700
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:00 am

RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Remcor (Reply 39):
I'm probably a fool, but how come big airports in the US need tons of runways (and still have tons of delays) while foreign airports such as Heathrow, Paris (CDG and Orly) and Frankfurt can get away with only 3?

Denver has very little delays unless it is weather related and it is becasue of the number of runways it has and the way they are laid out. I belive DEN is the only airport in the US, and maybe the world, that can shoot tripple approaches. I have seen them land on three runways and depart on the other three. Six runways in use at the same time!

I agree somewhat with you For example ORD has 6 runways and we all know about their delays. ORD's downfall is because every runway crosses another runway which severly cut down on the amount of simultaneous traffic. Lots of runways can be good to airports that lay them out properly or they can be a huge downfall.
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Boeingsukz (Reply 35):
uhhh... delta comes to mind going to atlanta.

Sorry, was assuming that one was obvious to everyone.  Smile

But given that no other airline flies 88's to Denver, I thought he was thinking of someone that just flies 82/83. But

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 38):
Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
Is one of your two Aeromexico?

Aye...

Aeromexico does indeed fly 88 as well.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 38):
Quoting 3201 (Reply 30):
the other one you're probably thinking of (which flies -82/-83)

I'm pretty sure the other one I'm thinking of flies the -88...

Yeah I didn't even mention DL since it was so totally obvious.  Smile I honestly was joking about Aeromexico, didn't think you meant them as one of your two.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Why Is Denver's Runway So Long?

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
Negative... the runway in question was constructed all new. DEN opened with 5 runways.

Thanks. I wasn't quite sure, and just assumed that they did it like DFW did, i.e. opening at one length and extending it later. Wasn't paying particularly close attention to Denver either, since the new airport happened during our nearly 20 year absence in the area...

Google satellite photos are still behind... At DAL, they just show ground work where there new hangar has been for 2-3 years now....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.

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