walter747
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US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:43 am

how come US doesn't have any intrest in Asian routes. I know they have an alliance with UA, but why wouldn't they wan to have their own. I know the A330 isn't capable of that trip but they could use other planes that have been stored or buy some especially since they're not in ch. 11 anymore
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:49 am

US needs their 10 A332s first, and those are scheduled for delivery beginning in 2009. The A332 can open up routes like PHX-LGW and PHL-NRT (assuming they didn't decide to run Asian flights out of PHX.) But that's a few years down the road yet.
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steeler83
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:45 pm

I still think that Asia will happen out of PHL before PHX... Much larger O&D, as well as regional feed. It would be nice to see them [PHL] land All Nippon Airways or SQ, or both... then they could start something along the lines of a Star Alliance hub, which would be rather neat at PHL... Yet... where's the room for this?
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:52 pm

why does it take so long for them to get their a332's
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
I still think that Asia will happen out of PHL before PHX...

I don't think so. Flying out of PHL to Tokyo represents a huge backhaul for most people - who's going to fly STL-PHL-NRT? They'll have far more feed possibilities going westbound through PHX.

PHX is not exactly chopped liver when it comes to O&D, either.

[Edited 2006-10-22 06:05:26]
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steeler83
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
who's going to fly STL-PHL-NRT?

Well true, they could either fly US from STL-PHX-NRT, or AA from STL-ORD-NRT or wherever AA flies over in Asia. I am sure they fly to NRT, don't they?

But, coming back to PHL, what about people flying up from the south? How about ATL-PHL-NRT or MCO or CLT, RDU, DCA? And how about some folks from the near west, like PIT? As PIT surely as heck won't support any N/S Asia service...
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SJUSXM
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:13 pm

PHL has a brand new international terminal

it sits almost empty in the morning and early afternoon until US's european bank comes in. Most flights on the east coast to asia leave around noon so if US, or any other Asian carrier wanted to start a flight im sure there would be space for them.
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 5):
But, coming back to PHL, what about people flying up from the south? How about ATL-PHL-NRT or MCO or CLT, RDU, DCA?

All those cities have non-stop US service to Phoenix which could connect to a PHX-NRT flight. A DCA-PHX-NRT itinerary is reasonably competitive, time and distance-wise, because the connecting flight is going in the right direction.

But nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to fly, say, ABQ-PHX-PHL-NRT. The itinerary goes 2,500 miles in the wrong direction, and requires a double-connect to boot! Which is the other issue with PHL - there are many, many fewer PHL-West spokes than PHX-East spokes.
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warreng24
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:41 am

Before they start Asia from PHL, they need to fix the baggage situation at PHL first.
 
airportplan
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:51 am

US does not have the equipment, rights nor the slots (at NRT)to fly from PHX-NRT so this will not happen anytime soon. I could potentially take them years just to obtain these if they were interested in doing so.
 
bobnwa
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
PHX is not exactly chopped liver when it comes to O&D, either.

Do you have the numbers?

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 7):
A DCA-PHX-NRT itinerary is reasonably competitive, time and distance-wise, because the connecting flight is going in the right direction.

Since PHX is not on the way between DCA-NRT, it is not competitive with say DCA-DTW-NRT or DCA-ORD-NRT. It is over 900 miles farther!!
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 10):
Do you have the numbers?

Why yes, I do. PHX is a bigger total O&D market than Philadelphia. 20.8 million to 13.4 million. However, US West has a smaller O&D share of PHX because of Southwest's strong presence.

Annual O&D for each respective hub carrier in 2004:
1 PHL (Philadelphia, PA) 6,527,660
2 PHX (Phoenix, AZ) 5,545,080

Those aren't chopped liver numbers by any means.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 10):
Since PHX is not on the way between DCA-NRT, it is not competitive with say DCA-DTW-NRT or DCA-ORD-NRT. It is over 900 miles farther!!

900 miles in the right direction is substantially more competitive than 2,500 miles in the wrong direction with double-connections required from all but eight cities west of the Rockies. (LAS, PDX, SFO, PHX, SEA, LAX and SAN are the only places with nonstop service to PHL or CLT.)
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bobnwa
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 11):
Annual O&D for each respective hub carrier in 2004:
1 PHL (Philadelphia, PA) 6,527,660
2 PHX (Phoenix, AZ) 5,545,080

Those aren't chopped liver numbers by any means

How about the O&D PHX-NRT vs PHL-NRT which is what we were comparing.

DCA-PHX-NRT does not seem competitive to me with 900 extra miles to fly compared with existing connecting flights.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:46 am

I'm not arguing that DCA-PHX-NRT is supremely competitive. I'm arguing that as a connecting route, it is more competitive than forcing US West customers to backhaul all the way to PHL to get to Asia.

Where's UA's major Asian gateway, ORD or SFO? I rest my case.

The easiest way to solve this problem would be to launch PHX and PHL service to Tokyo simultaneously  Wink
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supa7E7
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:17 am

Look, going to Asia is pretty much straight north from most of the USA. That's why PHL would be rather good from the entire East Coast, particularly from Florida, RDU, DCA, etc.

PHX is in a bad location for Asian routes. No realistic expectation of California traffic. You've got Vegas, Texas (already served), Albuquerque and Tuscon. Nowhere else is well served from Phoenix, certainly not the East Coast. PHX may get an NRT flight someday but mainly for locals. It's pretty much the worst spot in the country for an Asian hub, far worse than ORD or DTW for example. And here's the kicker, LAX and SFO do a great job with PHX demand to Asia already.

But PHX is a great location for Hawaii, Tahiti or even SYD. Their Hawaii connections DCA-PHX-KOA for example are great.
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ca2ohHP
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 3):
why does it take so long for them to get their a332's

Good question. I really wish we would move up the order.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:35 am

NRT isn't a good option for US due to the fact that getting slots there is just not likely anytime soon. PEK and PVG are much beter, more likely asian destinations.

US' 767-200ER's have 6,600 nm of range, the A330-200 will have 6,750nm of range - only 250 more, so any asian routes they would do with A332, they could do now with 762ER.

PHL-PEK: 5,977nm
PHL-PVG: 6,452nm (that's stretching it)
PHX-PEK: 5,648nm - assuming its not a hot day, no problems
PHX-PVG: 5,887nm

So really, PHL isn't much further than PHX, and doesn't have the weather issues, moreover, anything they'll be able to do with the A332s, they can run now with 762ERs. Also, China makes a better destination for them, since slots into NRT won't happen, and KIX has been problematic for US airlines. ICN might be another option. HKG is just out of range.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
PHL-NRT (assuming they didn't decide to run Asian flights out of PHX.) But that's a few years down the road yet.

PHL makes more sense than PHX for a number of reasons. Firstly, It isn't really any further away from most asian destinations than PHX. Secondly, PHX has 115 degree summer days in which a 762ER or A332 would have trouble getting airborne with a full load of fuel and payload without weight restrictions. Plus, they'd need to get slots at NRT. Good luck.

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 15):
Good question. I really wish we would move up the order.

Now that US' finances are in order, that might be more realistic. Seeing as the 762s are still flying fine and recently were overhauled, I don't know that they are hurting so bad for the A332s capacity at the moment.
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gilesdavies
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 1):
The A332 can open up routes like PHX-LGW and PHL-NRT (assuming they didn't decide to run Asian flights out of PHX.)

Even though the A330-200 is a very capable aircraft.

PHL-NRT is beyond the reach of this type of aircraft and PHX-NRT is within the reach eastbound but westbound flying against the winds will stretch the A332's limits.

I don't think the A340 is even an aircraft US Airways would want to consider, but they would need to be looking towards this kind of aircraft to fly to Asia. Maybe they could acquire a few A343's from AC as a stop gap until the A350 XWB arrive in 6yrs!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00006339.jpg
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
US' 767-200ER's have 6,600 nm of range, the A330-200 will have 6,750nm of range - only 250 more, so any asian routes they would do with A332, they could do now with 762ER.

Wrong. US Airways' 762ERs simply do not have that sort of range. Remember, they were intended for an airline focusing exclusively on transatlantic and transcontinental services. They do not have the gross weight or the engine performance to reach the range limit of the 762ER family.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
Seeing as the 762s are still flying fine and recently were overhauled.

The 762s have not been recently overhauled. They *will be* given an interior makeover next winter, with new lie-flat seats in the Envoy cabin and probably a new IFE system, at least up front.

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 17):
Maybe they could acquire a few A343's from AC as a stop gap until the A350 XWB arrive in 6yrs!

That will never happen. You'll see US refuse to take up the A350 order first and go in on some 787s instead. Remember, US is under absolutely zero obligation to accept the A350XWB - it's a 777-sized aircraft now, completely different from the plane they originally ordered.
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vega
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
I don't think so. Flying out of PHL to Tokyo represents a huge backhaul for most people - who's going to fly STL-PHL-NRT? They'll have far more feed possibilities going westbound through PHX.



Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 11):
Why yes, I do. PHX is a bigger total O&D market than Philadelphia. 20.8 million to 13.4 million. However, US West has a smaller O&D share of PHX because of Southwest's strong presence.

Although your point is well taken that PHX may be a better NRT connector for western travelers than PHL, you neglect that AA, CO, UA and several Asian carriers all have non-stop service to NRT from the East Coast, thereby confirming that North/South and International feeds via the East Coast to Japan must be adequate. PHX would possibly have the same problem with Western feeds to Asia as PHL in the respect that the largest Japanese American population lives on the Pacific Coast and Hawaii. Why would they backtrack to PHX with so many non-stop flights to Japan from LAX, SFO, SJC, SEA and even PDX? Remember PHX-NRT was previously attempted with HP. It did very poorly and was quickly dropped. Unfortunately as you know the 332 has the potential restricted max range for PHL-KIX (for example) only and possibly even PHX-KIX only because of the summer heat - anything beyond needs to wait for the 350 or a replacement aircraft such as the 787-800. On the ? of O&D; Domestic O&D is possibly not an accurate measurement of viability when discussing international travel. The 2005 International O&D Numbers for PHL were 1.82M (O) and 1.83M (D); for PHX 871K (O) and 873K (D) - a significant difference of 2 million passengers. Further, most of the PHX O&D was for travel to/from Mexico. One would assume that US has already negotiated a fallback to the 350 delays with Airbus, a leasing company or ?, since they surely cannot wait for the 20 - 350XWB deliveries to start in 2014 - or later. A final point, dismissing all the problems with US domestic at PHL, a few Asian flights from there would give US a lot more stature as a global player - in my view, than one from PHX or elsewhere.
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
I don't know that they are hurting so bad for the A332s capacity at the moment.

They are hurting *very bad* for the A332 capacity at the moment. The European expansion has stretched the US widebody fleet to its limit and beyond. Several more 757s will be ETOPSed this winter so more long-thin cities can be opened up. The lack of aircraft and gate space are the only things keeping US from making PHL into a dominant European gateway in competition with CO/EWR and DL/JFK.
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 19):
Remember PHX-NRT was previously attempted with HP. It did very poorly and was quickly dropped.

Again, that's not true.

The old HP Japan service was PHX-HNL-NGO and was a disaster, using old ex-KLM 747-200s. One-stop service over HNL in a very big aircraft to a very secondary Japanese destination on a very-fledgling and highly-leveraged LCC... yeah, that was pretty much destined to fail.

Now we're talking about the fifth-largest U.S. airline with a much stronger hub, the right-sized aircraft with the ability to go non-stop, alliance feed and billions of dollars in the bank. A completely different scenario.
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vega
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 21):
The old HP Japan service was PHX-HNL-NGO and was a disaster, using old ex-KLM 747-200s. One-stop service over HNL in a very big aircraft to a very secondary Japanese destination on a very-fledgling and highly-leveraged LCC... yeah, that was pretty much destined to fail.

Seems like your're attempting to extract the miniscule portion of my post to make your point. Regardless, US would not be able to fly to anything but a secondary city in Japan - so that situation still applies. I do not believe the PHX location has the drawing power, when compared to PHL as I expressed earlier, to make Japan work especially for premium revenue - which would be mandatory for the relatively small size 332. I am not at all negative about US trying a PHX-Japan flight IF there is no better alternative.

[Edited 2006-10-23 00:59:57]
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:09 am

how they can't get slots at HND or fly to a different destination such as ICN or KIX. They could do a PHL-HNL-NRT or HND or where ever they chose. why isn't that possible. US is the only "legacy" carrier that doesn't have routes in asia. It's time for themselves to establish some kind of route in asia.
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:09 am

and is that picture of the A343 real?
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airportplan
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):
NRT isn't a good option for US due to the fact that getting slots there is just not likely anytime soon. PEK and PVG are much beter, more likely asian destinations.


You need rights to fly to PEK or PVG. AA, CO, DL, NW and UA are all aleady in line for the next batch of China rights to be issued this year and two years from now. Realistacally the earliest that US could obtain China rights is at least 5 years. The main point is that US or any other carrier can't just decide one day to fly to NRT or China. It takes years to obtain the necessary permisson to operate these routes.
 
burnsie28
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:41 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 16):

US' 767-200ER's have 6,600 nm of range, the A330-200 will have 6,750nm of range - only 250 more, so any asian routes they would do with A332, they could do now with 762ER.

PHL-PEK: 5,977nm
PHL-PVG: 6,452nm (that's stretching it)

Yeah it is a stretch since NW can't even fly an 747-400 fully loaded from DTW-PVG.
 
steeler83
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 24):
and is that picture of the A343 real?

I'd say it's about as real as a unicorn or Pegasus  Wink

I think someone used photoshop er something of the type on some random pic of an A343 to make it into a US livery... the old US livery at that... pre-HP merger...
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vega
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 25):
You need rights to fly to PEK or PVG. AA, CO, DL, NW and UA are all aleady in line for the next batch of China rights to be issued this year and two years from now. Realistacally the earliest that US could obtain China rights is at least 5 years. The main point is that US or any other carrier can't just decide one day to fly to NRT or China. It takes years to obtain the necessary permisson to operate these routes.

Regarding the China agreements. That could easily change if Chinese airlines could make money on their flights to the U.S. and thereby increase the number of cities and the frequencies of their existing flights. The problem is that every U.S. airline wants to fly to China, but few Chinese airlines make enough profit to want to fly extensively to the U.S.. US Airways, based on their known plans for aircraft procurement, could not fly to China until 2014 anyway. The best chance for direct access in the near term, is probably the UA/US code share agreement (if UA gets the route) and/or a *Alliance Chinese partner (e.g., Air China) flying into PHL with relatively seemless connections.
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vega
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 26):
US' 767-200ER's have 6,600 nm of range,

If you don't mind my asking, where did you derive the 6600 nm from for "US" 767-200s?
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
steeler83
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 29):
If you don't mind my asking, where did you derive the 6600 nm from for "US" 767-200s?

Yeah, I don't think those numbers are accurate either. The 763 has about 5700 or 5800nm range, and I believe that this bird, of all 767 aircraft, has the longest range. I think the range for the 762 is under 5,000nm, like 4,400 to 4,800nm. I THINK anyway...
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:33 am

So why doesn't US chose HND or NRT they chose LGW over LHR
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SFORunner
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 19):
you neglect that AA, CO, UA and several Asian carriers all have non-stop service to NRT from the East Coast, thereby confirming that North/South and International feeds via the East Coast to Japan must be adequate.

Absolutely correct. US is going to have a tough time competing with its own Star Alliance partners, not to mention CO, AA, and others ....

UA: 2 x ORD - NRT, 1 x IAD - NRT (soon-to-be-formerly JFK - NRT)
NH: 1 x ORD - NRT, 1 x IAD - NRT, 1 x JFK - NRT

From a purely flying time perspective, PHL - NRT would only benefit PHL origin pax or "most" pax from airport that require a double connect to reach ORD or IAD (vs a single connect to PHL).

And by the time US takes delivery of their A332's, UA's premium cabin upgrade will have largely been complete.

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 25):
You need rights to fly to PEK or PVG. AA, CO, DL, NW and UA are all aleady in line for the next batch of China rights to be issued this year and two years from now.

IMHO, China will sign an Open Skies treaty with the USA after the 2008 Olympic Games and after the Mainland carriers take delivery of their B787s and newer long-haul aircraft. The state-owned carriers right now aren't in a position to compete with US carriers from a capacity or product standpoint. IIRC, the Chinese carriers are not making full use of their inbound USA pax slots.

Plus, the 2008 Olympic Games are a license to print money: I'm sure the state-owned carriers will be making more than a bit of cash. Why share?

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 7):
A DCA-PHX-NRT itinerary is reasonably competitive, time and distance-wise, because the connecting flight is going in the right direction.



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 12):
DCA-PHX-NRT does not seem competitive to me with 900 extra miles to fly compared with existing connecting flights.

As miserable as IAD is, I think most pax would prefer UA's about-to-start IAD - NRT or NH's pre-existing IAD - NRT.

In some ways, US' best chances to succeed in Asia lie with Star Alliance partner UA: in the absence of an Open Skies treaty, it may be some time before UA is allocated another China slot, given how many slots it currently holds.

US has a higher chance of winning a China slot, given that they do not posses any at the moment.

A US-metal flight out of a UA hub to Asia may be a means for both carriers to benefit. Especially, given the perceived higher O&D traffic from UA's hubs vs US's.

US could provide the "trojan horse" UA requires to code-share / operate SFO - CAN, for example.
 
walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:38 am

how come everyone assumes US will choose NRT over HND or if they even want to fly to china. Look what they did in London they chose LGW over LHR. There is also ICN.
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 31):
So why doesn't US chose HND or NRT they chose LGW over LHR

They didn't "choose" LGW over LHR. They fly into LGW because they're forced to by the anti-competitive Bermuda 2.

But that's a whole different thread  Wink
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eva777sea
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 30):
Yeah, I don't think those numbers are accurate either. The 763 has about 5700 or 5800nm range, and I believe that this bird, of all 767 aircraft, has the longest range. I think the range for the 762 is under 5,000nm, like 4,400 to 4,800nm. I THINK anyway...

According to Boeing the 762 has the greatest range out of the 3 767s.
 
airportplan
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 33):
Look what they did in London they chose LGW over LHR.

US is not allowed to fly to LHR. AA and UA are the only U.S. carriers allowed to fly to LHR. CO, DL, NW and US can not fly into LHR.
 
walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:46 am

oh i see now, but how come they can't fly into HND then?
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:53 am

what US should do if they can do it is apply for the a china route and code share the flight with UA until they get their new A332's
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burnsie28
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 37):
oh i see now, but how come they can't fly into HND then?

Because you can't fly US-HND.
 
Lu
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:41 am

I know China is a big market for US airliners.
 
walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:07 am

Quote:
Because you can't fly US-HND.

Why?
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MCOflyer
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:28 am

I believe the US 767's have a 5500-5700 mile range. In order to get 6700miles, you need to upgrade the GE engines, and add fuel capacity.

MCOflyer
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aero0729
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 4):
PHX is not exactly chopped liver when it comes to O&D, either

I agree, I always thought of the west coast US as Mini-China, even PHX has rowing number of Asian visitors. It is a HUGE leisure market and a continually growing business market.
 
boeing 747-311
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:53 am

one thing that i noticed that you guys didnt mention, is that is there a market for asian routes? no foreign carrier has decided that it is a lucrative enough route to fly it (PHX and PHL), so is there a market? there must be a market to London from PHX though as BA flies a 744 to LHR daily!
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walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:57 am

i think US could benifit from any asian route, but im still wondering why you cant fly to HND on us airline
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treebeard787
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Boeing 747-311 (Reply 44):

It's actually 6 times a week, BA288/289 does not operate on wed.
Allons-y!
 
centrair
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 31):
So why doesn't US chose HND or NRT they chose LGW over LHR

Not an option. HND is not like LGW. HND is mostly domestic, regional international and international charter flights. NRT is the only airport in Tokyo that is currently allowed to support regularly scheduled long-haul international flights. If HND was allowed to support long-haul international flights, I think many airlines would be lining up to fly there.

1) 15 minutes to Shinjuku and 20 minutes to Shinagawa
2) more runways and not as slot restricted

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 21):
The old HP Japan service was PHX-HNL-NGO and was a disaster, using old ex-KLM 747-200s. One-stop service over HNL in a very big aircraft to a very secondary Japanese destination on a very-fledgling and highly-leveraged LCC... yeah, that was pretty much destined to fail.

At the time NGO was a very very very secondary city. But I believe HP was the first US carrier to serve it. I believe they started before DL with L-1011 (PDX) and NW with DC-10 (HNL). Just not the best plan at the time. If they had been able to get into NRT or even Osaka (at the time was only ITM) they would have done better.

Today NGO is booming and attracting many carriers due to increased business and one of the top international terminals in the world.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 21):
Now we're talking about the fifth-largest U.S. airline with a much stronger hub, the right-sized aircraft with the ability to go non-stop, alliance feed and billions of dollars in the bank. A completely different scenario.

If US had the right aircraft and did the service from the right city to the right destinations, they could do quite well. Japan is fracturing. There will be fewer and fewer 747s flying trans-pac from Japan simply because airlines are launching NGO, KIX and could start CTS or FUK. These are places that need something of a 767/A330/787 to 772/A350XWBZASD sized aircraft.

Personally PHL or even LAS would be good.
PHL can be an alternate to other international airports in the region like BWI or EWR. It can also pull in traffic from surrounding states, New England and the south.

LAS could provide a destination, transfer and be an alternate for many western states. This might not be as good as PHL though it might be better than PHX.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
walter747
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:16 pm

thank you  Smile but why doesn't US get some planes lying around the dessert or take a few out of storage until the get their 332's, this is what US is lacking in serivce an asian route they need to step up their game. They could even use the ex-HP 742's if they wanted. This is a good time for US to start an asian route because they are not in bankruptcy like NW or DL and i think UA. So it would only strengthen the company. They need an asian route end of story.
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FCYTravis
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RE: US And Asians Routes

Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 47):
LAS could provide a destination, transfer and be an alternate for many western states. This might not be as good as PHL though it might be better than PHX.

LAS would not be a very good option for several reasons. One, it doesn't have nearly as much feed as PHX; two, yields would be substantially lower; three, the international terminal is completely separated from the US Airways domestic terminal, leading to very inconvenient transfers and connections.
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