LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:50 pm

With less than a month to go before AM launches its much anticipated flight to Japan, let's discuss how the flight is selling. I'm sure some of you have access to the information so your contribution is very much appreciated.



TIJ-NRT

AM58 01:40 AM - 06:45 AM (Tue & Fri.)

NRT-TIJ

AM57 2:55 PM - 07:45 AM (Wed & Sat.)





From what I understand, the planes flying the route will be either (Frida Kahlo or Diego Rivera) the two original factory 777s, and not the new ex-RG bird, which will be used on the European and Brazilian runs.


 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:41 pm

With the US visa restricions this flight should prove valuable for connection from Latin America.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:46 pm

I'd say they would be lucky to get 20% load factor. 99.9999999% of Japanese don't know where Tijuana is.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 2):
I'd say they would be lucky to get 20% load factor. 99.9999999% of Japanese don't know where Tijuana is.

Hmmm ok.... how more ignorant can a post get?

Get some info about this flight first, then we can discuss. It's obvious that the main market here is MEX-NRT.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 3):
Hmmm ok.... how more ignorant can a post get?

Get some info about this flight first, then we can discuss. It's obvious that the main market here is MEX-NRT.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

Okay since we are talking Mexico City, I stand corrected, they would be lucky to get 30% load factor. Quién es el ignorante?
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:57 pm

Checking the seat maps - it looks like (occupied seats includes the seats that appear to be occupied for crew rest).

Keep in mind, they didn't start selling this flight until one month prior, which means they didn't capture the people who had already made plans. November 2006 will probably be its worst load factor month consistent with a new route.

11/17 - TIJ NRT 4 J, 45 Y (17.7%)

11/21 - TIJ NRT 5 J, 22 Y (9.7%)

11/24 - TIJ NRT 1 J, 22 Y (8.3%)

11/28 - TIJ NRT 3 J, 20 Y (8.3%)

11/18 - NRT TIJ 0 J, 17 Y (6.1%)

11/22 - NRT TIJ 3 J, 18 Y (7.6%)

11/25 - NRT TIJ 2 J, 31 Y (11.9%)

11/29 - NRT TIJ 0 J, 20 Y (7.2%)

My question is if they are faced with low loads <15% will they scrub the first few flights and reaccommodate until bookings increase?
Retorne ao céu...
 
RCS763AV
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
Okay since we are talking Mexico City, I stand corrected, they would be lucky to get 30% load factor. Quién es el ignorante?

Then why does JL fly a 747 to MEX with decent loads? I know part of the pax go to YVR but a carrier wont start a route if most of the pax will get down from the plane in the first stop...

I wish the best luck to AM on this one. Im sure it will pick up from January.
 
swissgabe
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Latinplane (Thread starter):
TIJ-NRT

AM58 01:40 AM - 06:45 AM (Tue & Fri.)

NRT-TIJ

AM57 2:55 PM - 07:45 AM (Wed & Sat.)

Does the flight operate as MEX-TIJ-NRT vv. or TIJ-NRT vv.?

Does AM have MEX-NRT vv. flights?
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 4):
Okay since we are talking Mexico City, I stand corrected, they would be lucky to get 30% load factor. Quién es el ignorante?

Since you seem to be sure of what you are saying, can you elaborate on your comment of why it will fail? Many people who fly between Asia and Mexico, fly thru LAX and SFO. AM just wants a piece of the pie. Besides, if it fails, you send the 777 somewhere else, simple. Airlines fail on routes all the time.

I wish they would eliminate the Tijuana stop, and do it non-stop MEX-NRT, because for the Japanese tourists who want to see the Mexican beaches, a stop in Tijuana means 3 flights.
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 8):
I wish they would eliminate the Tijuana stop, and do it non-stop MEX-NRT, because for the Japanese tourists who want to see the Mexican beaches, a stop in Tijuana means 3 flights.

Because of the altitude at MEX I believe it is not possible to takeoff with full load of fuel especially in summer, and thus, the stop JAL makes in YVR.

I know I am being brash about my claim of low load factor. It has nothing to do with Mexico but due to the stop in Tijuana. You have to understand the Japanese market which is very complex but the gist of it is that people will not go on a 14 or 15 hour journey for a beach holiday. Also the availability of Japanese services is very important consideration. Anyway, this is a discussion for another thread but I wish AM goodluck.
 
saab77
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:15 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:03 am

Everybody is forgetting about the cargo cotracts AeroMexico has with Toyota and other companies, this will reduce the risk of not being a profitable rout!
 
LAXintl
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:17 am

One thing that certainly works against the flight is the low frequency and the lousy Narita slot times which AM was able to secure which are not ideal for the few domestic connections at NRT and those further afield in Asia.

I'd also agree with Naritaflyer about the Japan travel market being a quite complex web from both passenger relations and the strenght travel agencies play.

In addition I doubt Mexico beach wishing Japanese traveller would consider AM, when he can reach many Mexican destinations one stop via carriers such as Continental, American, United all whom offer daily service and have tie ins with the major Japanese agencies such as JTB.

Anyways, I wish AM luck. Its nice to see them spread their wings to Asia, I just hope its not a waste of their resources.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 9):
Because of the altitude at MEX I believe it is not possible to takeoff with full load of fuel especially in summer, and thus, the stop JAL makes in YVR.

Yes, that is the reason for the stop. I've experienced that problem flying from Toluca a couple of times.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
Anyways, I wish AM luck. Its nice to see them spread their wings to Asia, I just hope its not a waste of their resources

I like the idea of AM flying to Tokyo, it shows ambition and I think it will succed. Every important route from Mexico to the US & Latin America is already covered, its time to go long.
 
LatinPlane
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 5):
Keep in mind, they didn't start selling this flight until one month prior, which means they didn't capture the people who had already made plans. November 2006 will probably be its worst load factor month consistent with a new route.

11/17 - TIJ NRT 4 J, 45 Y (17.7%)

11/21 - TIJ NRT 5 J, 22 Y (9.7%)

11/24 - TIJ NRT 1 J, 22 Y (8.3%)

11/28 - TIJ NRT 3 J, 20 Y (8.3%)

11/18 - NRT TIJ 0 J, 17 Y (6.1%)

11/22 - NRT TIJ 3 J, 18 Y (7.6%)

11/25 - NRT TIJ 2 J, 31 Y (11.9%)

11/29 - NRT TIJ 0 J, 20 Y (7.2%)

Wow, those are some heavy losses. It was reported earlier that the first flight was already 80% booked?

Hope that the cargo contracts that have been mentioned minimize the potential losses for the low bookings for the month of November. November is indeed a slugish month after all.

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
swissgabe
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 5):
Checking the seat maps - it looks like (occupied seats includes the seats that appear to be occupied for crew rest).

Seat Maps don't indicate loads at all. A lot booked pax don't request seats in advance. I don't know how many % of seats are restricted with AM and if pre seat request is possible at all! The only indication would be a class availability or even better the actual LOAD figures. Nothing else...
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
RCS763AV
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 9):
will not go on a 14 or 15 hour journey for a beach holiday.

Then why is Cancun always filled with japanese tourists???

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
One thing that certainly works against the flight is the low frequency and the lousy Narita slot times which AM was able to secure which are not ideal for the few domestic connections at NRT and those further afield in Asia.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
In addition I doubt Mexico beach wishing Japanese traveller would consider AM, when he can reach many Mexican destinations one stop via carriers such as Continental, American, United all whom offer daily service and have tie ins with the major Japanese agencies such as JTB.

Those are real reasons that would make the flight a failure.

Anyway, if you stop to think, this is a flight linking the world´s two most populated cities!! Both are huge economic centers and generate lots of traffic...
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Latinplane (Thread starter):
the planes flying the route will be either (Frida Kahlo or Diego Rivera)

I'm a bit ignorant too. When were they named? Or have they always had those names maybe? I've always seen them referred to as 'the morochos' (twins).
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 1999 11:05 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 14):
Seat Maps don't indicate loads at all. A lot booked pax don't request seats in advance. I don't know how many % of seats are restricted with AM and if pre seat request is possible at all! The only indication would be a class availability or even better the actual LOAD figures. Nothing else...

I see... Explains then why it was mentioned before that the inagural flight is already more than 80% full. Of course, I suspect that many flying on board will be Mexican/Japanese dignitaries and company officials.

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 16):
I'm a bit ignorant too. When were they named? Or have they always had those names maybe? I've always seen them referred to as 'the morochos' (twins).

No Naranjita, you're not ignorant. It was planned by the company to rename "el Morocho" (N745AM) to "Frida Kahlo," while "Diego Rivera" would be N746AM. Nothing has turned out yet, but that was the original plan. Actually, Mexicans don't use the term "Morocho" for twins, but "cuates" (Correct me if I'm wrong) The name was to honor a person who worked with AeroMexico for 40 something years with an Italian last name that I don't recall, but nicknamed "el Morocho" by his co-workers.

  LatinPlane

[Edited 2006-10-23 20:54:28]

[Edited 2006-10-23 21:05:27]
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
In addition I doubt Mexico beach wishing Japanese traveller would consider AM, when he can reach many Mexican destinations one stop via carriers such as Continental, American, United

TIJ is very well connected nonstop to major cities and resorts in Mexico. The leisure traffic is just part of the picture. Besides, biz-pax, cargo and traffic from SOCAL and SA will contribute to the overall.

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17):
The name was to honor a person who worked with AeroMexico for 40 something years with an Italian last name that I don't recall, but called "Morocho" by his co-workers.

IIRC, Morosini...

Fyano
 
lamedianaranja
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 17):
No Naranjita, you're not ignorant.

Thx! But I didn't know that only one of them was 'The Morocho' and named for an actual person. I thought it was just the way they referred to those 2 identical, beautiful silver birds.

I still have to fly them, we went to Mexico last summer but were able to get on the direct KL flight, otherwise it would have been a wonderful alternative.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 18):
cargo and traffic from SOCAL

Having worked in cargo, I doubt 1kg of SoCal destined cargo will flow over AM's TIJ route when there is plenty of belly and freighter cargo capacity between Asia and California.
In addition trucking cargo from TIJ back into SoCal would create added transit time and added customs documentation requirements and cost on both sides of the border.

Also remember the flight is only twice weekly. US & Japanese freight forwarders look for schedule frequency and have block space agreements and pricing contract with most larger air carriers.

What AM would carry is Mexico destined cargo, much of it overflow of what cannot be handled by other airlines with daily one stop service. Same goes for Asia-South America cargo which is carried quite efficiently and successfully by airlines such as AA, CO, UA onestop over their hubs currently with very short enroute times.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:21 am

Considering the time-table, connections from Brazil will be not a strong market for this flight. Even the new 2 weekly frequencies does not allow connection from Brazil to Japan thru TIJ (and also needs a connection MEX-TIJ).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
Then why is Cancun always filled with japanese tourists???

That's "very" news to me. You might be exaggerating just a tad.
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 20):



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 20):
Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 18):
cargo and traffic from SOCAL

Having worked in cargo, I doubt 1kg of SoCal destined cargo will flow over AM's TIJ route when there is plenty of belly and freighter cargo capacity between Asia and California.

Completely agree, I meant cargo between Mexico & Japan and traffic from SOCAL, etc.

Commercial interchange MEX-JAP achieved 15,000M USD in 2005, on the other hand, the Mexico trade balance with Chile is one third (5,000M) with several weekly flights MEX-SCL. I know both markets are very different, but due to the free trade pact MEX-JAP and increasing relations, one can think a couple of flights should work.

Fyano
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3654
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 22):
That's "very" news to me. You might be exaggerating just a tad.

Of course there´s not thousands of japanese arriving everyday as from the us and canada, but there is a large amount of tourists that go to cancun from japan, i would say some 80-100 daily arrivals.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
(and also needs a connection MEX-TIJ).

Is the flight originating in MEX or TIJ????
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:31 am

This flight is certainly not there to cater to the Japanese leisure market.

NS
 
AeroMexico777
Posts: 157
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RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:46 am

HI!
Totally agree Gigneil, I think its going after the major industries we have in the north of Mexico...
And I think most of the japanese tourists that come to Mexico are after the colonial cities and prehispanic ruins... dont you think so?

Regards, AeroMexico777

Ps.- Good Luck in MEX-NRT run AEROMEXICO!
"When the hope of dying becomes the only reason to live..." Die Laughing (Gothic), Safe little world.
 
juancarlos
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 7:27 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:36 am

The route MEX-NRT is very very long, but is a great market for Aeromexico.

US Goverment , nees that tha passager that need a conection inside US have a Visa , but many mexicans haven't.

Tijuana is the 4th city in Mexico, and have many flight to many cities and beaches of US and Mexico.
 
mtyfreak
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:03 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 18):
TIJ is very well connected nonstop to major cities and resorts in Mexico.

Specially now that TIJ is becoming "A volar" hub which just closed a deal for 20 737, TiJ traffic will grow considerable in the next years, let's keep in mind that TIJ is the most important airport in that area of Mexico.

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 22):
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):Then why is Cancun always filled with Japanese tourists???That's "very" news to me. You might be exaggerating just a tad.

Well is true, there are a lot of Japanese tourist in Cancun and the "Riviera Maya" and most of them don't mind flying 15 or more hours to get there.
Only here for the beer...
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6237
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 28):
TIJ is the most important airport in that area of Mexico

Ghost, do you have the statistics of TIJ vs. HMO in terms of passengers served per year?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
mtyfreak
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:03 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:41 am

TIJ 2005 3,472,073 pax

HMO 2005 1,206,729 pax


Source:

http://hermosillo.aeropuertosgap.com.mx
http://tijuana.aeropuertosgap.com.mx/
Only here for the beer...
 
DFWMEX
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:35 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:52 am

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1127339/L/

Somebody already posted a pic of the third 777 in new colors. What was it doing in China, I wonder?

This explains how they will cover this new route, it was hard to explain this route with only two, but I am glad there is a third one (although not brand new).

JL
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6237
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting DFWMEX (Reply 31):
What was it doing in China, I wonder?

I believe the lessor sent it to China for maintenance and that is where it got the new livery.

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 30):
TIJ 2005 3,472,073 pax

HMO 2005 1,206,729 pax

Thanks a lot!
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 13):
It was reported earlier that the first flight was already 80% booked?

Travelvision Magazine, a magazine for the Japanese travel industry had an article (The only one in Japanese about this flight).

It says that they are aiming for a load factor of 78%
35% Business
50% Tourism
15% Transit to South America

It also said there is 1...only 1 interpreter on the flight.
They will use T1 at Narita. (Skyteam)
Mexican government sight-seeing bureau is investing US$500,000 to promote this flight... Any A.netter in Tokyo see any of this promotion?

The information is now in the Narita website, yet nothing is put in the front page. If you put in info for a flight from NRT-TIJ, it is listed.

But what about this promotion....
I thought... maybe I should check the agents.
First stop JTB: #1 travel agency in Japan.

I put in information requesting a ticket for a flight to MEX leaving November 23 (wed) and returning on the 28th (Tues).
Results:
AC 71,000 yen ~
AA 86,000 yen ~
CO 89,000 yen ~
AM.....Not even listed or an option.

Okay maybe I check out HIS travel #2 largest in Japan.
Low and behold...
AM is listed...

HIS lists the flight:
AC 72,000 yen~
DL 89,000 yen~
AM 98,000 yen~

*was unable to find info for a Business class seat on this flight

I wonder why the #1 agency (#1 corporate contracts, personal travel and blocked seats) doesn't have this option.

I will say that the schedule does allow for connections to East Asia, Southeast Asia and domestic into Japan. There are enough early morning flights to Tokyo to make it possible to connect. Problem...who is their domestic codeshare? JAL or NH?
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:36 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 29):
Ghost, do you have the statistics of TIJ vs. HMO in terms of passengers served per year?

Stats have been posted already, but I have another cool fact... AM in August moved 29,000 pax out from TIJ... wanna know who's second??? Yes... Avolar with 19,000 and far less operations than AM as well as MX and JR are now far behind...

Maybe later it will be great for all to fly Avolar to TIJ with a low fare and then take your B777 ride to NRT with AM!!!

Mexico's aviation industry is finally changing... just as we all request it long ago  Smile

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2566
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
One thing that certainly works against the flight is the low frequency and the lousy Narita slot times which AM was able to secure which are not ideal for the few domestic connections at NRT and those further afield in Asia.

Contrary to your comment, the arrival and departing times are very good for onward connections to Asia and domestic destinations. Once one arrives at NRT, one has the entire day (but most likely in the morning) to fly to onward destinations. Connections for the outbound flight is good for all domestic connections from HND and most major Asian destinations have arrivals in the early PM at NRT.
Now if AM could increase it to say over four weekly, they would do better with the business pax. The arriving and departing flight on Saturday should be packed in economy at least. Yield is another story....
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 35):
Contrary to your comment, the arrival and departing times are very good for onward connections to Asia and domestic destinations

Actually, you cannot make connections to places such as KUL, SIN(only tight 55min connection on NW), CGK.
Domestically the first flight to Osaka for instance departs NRT at 9hours after the arrival from TIJ!, same as some other domestic flights which are geared for the afternoon/evening bank of international flights.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 35):
Connections for the outbound flight is good for all domestic connections from HND

Now chaning airports to HND would really make the connection even more undesirable.


As I said, the NRT slot holdings of the flights, are poor for both domestic and overall Asia connections.
Its not a fluke, AM ended up with such times, as obviously more commercially advantageous times are all taken by incumbent carriers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 36):
you cannot make connections to places such as KUL, SIN

you may not be able to make very convenient connections on Skyteam or Skyteam partners. If you stay within the alliance then you do have to sit around a long time. If you are not concerned with airline, you can make SQ's flight to SIN, MH's flight to KUL, or TG's flight to BKK.

Right now AM doesn't list its codeshare partners but I bet they are making them. I bet some KE, MH and NW flights will get an AM codeshare number at some point.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 36):
Now chaning airports to HND would really make the connection even more undesirable.

That is NRT's biggest problem. Not enough convenient domestic routes. It is easier for people from places like Akita or Sendai to fly to NGO to connect to an international flight. (Makes KIX and NRT a little unhappy)

[Edited 2006-10-24 07:25:11]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 37):
If you are not concerned with airline, you can make SQ's flight to SIN, MH's flight to KUL, or TG's flight to BKK.

I agree you can make outbound connections in the morning, however try finding a flight on the return from SIN, KUL, CGK for instance that connects with AM's 255pm flight. There are none!

If they would be able to slip the departure from Narita to 5-6pm then they would have a host of added connection opportunities.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 38):
There are none!

Really?....

SQ996 (Daily)
DEP SIN 23:40
ARR NRT 7:05

MH088 (Daily)
DEP KUL 23:35
ARR NRT 7:10

TG640 (Daily)
DEP BKK 00:50
ARR NRT 8:30

GA880 (Daily)
DEP CGK 23:40
ARR NRT 8:50

NW20 (Daily
DEP MNL 7:55
ARR NRT 12:50

KE701 (Daily)
DEP ICN 9:20
ARR NRT 11:30

NW02 (Daily)
DEP HKG 8:30
ARR NRT 13:50
(Tight but might be enough for NRT T1 International connection especially in the Skyteam wing)

Most flight from Southeast Asia depart in the middle of the night and arrive in Japan early in the morning. In all the schedules I looked at one could connect back to AM's NRT-TIJ-MEX easily. There were more than one option in many cases. Only HKG was a problem. The earliest being the NW flight.

Take a look at...
All International Arrivals at NRT
All International Departures at NRT
Airwise:Worldwide flight schedules

[Edited 2006-10-24 08:36:02]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 39):

So you'd recommend a passenger arrive NRT early in the morning off a red-eye and hang out 6-8 hours for the 255pm AeroMexico flight?

You've gotta be kidding.

The AM flight simply has terrible, not commerically appealing connections.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm

Additionally:

JL3002 (Daily)
Departs Osaka (Itami) - 08:30.
Arrives Tokyo (Narita) - 09:45.

JAL to offer two daily fligths between Tokyo (NRT) and Osaka (ITM)

Fyano
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:30 pm

I never said they were convenient. But you said,

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 38):
try finding a flight on the return from SIN, KUL, CGK for instance that connects with AM's 255pm flight. There are none!

You said nothing about find a "CONVENIENT" flight with reasonable transfer time.

You can connect to NRT-TIJ-MEX but you have to sit around NRT for 5 or 6 hours. There are few to no perfect connections. Unless AM can get 5th freedom rights or can readjust their schedule to a different time, there will probably never be a perfect connection at this schedule. And if you really need to get from MEX or South America to SIN, KUL or CGK, you are better off going via Europe. It will be faster. (SIN-AMS-GRU = 29hrs w/4 hr layover in AMS) AM's flight will be best for those coming from and going to Mexico, Japan, Korea or China. Even if you are from GRU and flying to NRT, flying via Europe is 4 hours shorter than flying via the US and NO TRANSIT VISA NEEDED.

AM was lucky to get slots at NRT one of the if not THE most slot resticted airports in the world.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
naritaflyer
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:17 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:45 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 24):
Of course there´s not thousands of japanese arriving everyday as from the us and canada, but there is a large amount of tourists that go to cancun from japan, i would say some 80-100 daily arrivals.

Okay, like Americans say and I'm sorry of this is rude but "dude" give it up. I guarantee you there isn't 80 J-tourists going to Mexico per day and not even per week. Mexico is not Japan friendly, i.e. no Japanese food, no Japanese language services, bad public health and safety reputation and the list goes on.
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:41 pm

AM's Narita flight shows an effort to join the two ocean club. Tijuana probably isn't the most desired stopover, but the most practical one in northern Mexico. Other cities like, Acapulco may be too far south and don't have enough local taffic. TIJ does have lots of Japanesse industry. Many Japanesse expatriates may continue north to LAX for the ANA or JAL flight home, but some will try AM and eventually they will like the 777.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6237
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 34):
Maybe later it will be great for all to fly Avolar to TIJ with a low fare and then take your B777 ride to NRT with AM!!!

Especially to those living in the western side and suburbs of Mexico City if the TIJ-NRT-TIJ fare is lower than the MEX-NRT-MEX fare.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:56 am

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 43):
Okay, like Americans say and I'm sorry of this is rude but "dude" give it up. I guarantee you there isn't 80 J-tourists going to Mexico per day and not even per week. Mexico is not Japan friendly, i.e. no Japanese food, no Japanese language services, bad public health and safety reputation and the list goes on.

List all things you want to add and believe what you read and say here and there... I can read about Japan and know some things about the country but I sure can't judge a thing before visiting Japan and seeing the whole picture with my own eyes... unless, you've been to Mexico?

And here some facts:

JL's operation into MEX is limited to a 2X. From 90,000 Japanese that visited Mexico in 2005, only 43,000 flew JL, the rest came from other destinations... now add to those numbers mexicans flying to Asia via LAX/SFO or JL from MEX... there's still a big gap AM will now be covering and also offering connections for South American countries to fly AM instead of JL via JFK and also a few more that will originate at SAN... Japan has a strong FDI in Mexico as well as heavy ties with bussiness in the northern states of Mexico due to our NAFTA with the USA. That route with the time will heat up...

g77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 5):
November 2006 will probably be its worst load factor month consistent with a new route.

....consistent with a new route that's only sold for 30 days. The route is going to be horrible in November, but nothing looks good in the first month when it only has a month or less to sell.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:45 am

I wonder if AM will increase frequency when they gets more 777s. If Mexico is going to be this important and could be huge for the Japanese, they better increase frequency.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
jfk777
Posts: 5861
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: AeroMexico's Sales On The Tokyo Route?

Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:32 am

Thinhs will pick up in December for teh Christmas Holiday and for A japanesse holiday in late January. AM will have low loads, but cargo may save the day.