TimRees
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LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:22 pm

I was wondering why the planners decided to link the North Terminal at LGW to the new pier 6 by bridge rather than a tunnel. The bridge is beautiful and gives great views of the apron (pity you have to be flying to get to see that view!) but it isn't tall enough to let an A380 pass beneath (not that anyone is likely to be flying them from LGW, or anywhere, in the near future). It struck me that if a 'pier 7' is built to the south of the new pier a further bridge or tunnel will be needed. Is it really cheaper to build a bridge that construct a relatively small tunnel to connect the two? Any thoughts?
 
TimRees
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:24 pm

Sorry, header should of course read Pier 6!
 
cloudyapple
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:37 pm

To do with ops - digging a tunnel would have closed the taxiway for months, whereas the bridge only took 10 days to lodge into place.

http://www.arup.com/europe/gallery.cfm?pageid=3206

The downside is that the bridge is obstructing views from the tower.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:53 pm

Because the planners at LGW are spotter-friendly Big grin .

Okay, not really, but an open bridge certainly can be considered more appealing to pax than a tunnel.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
more appealing

That is also true. BAA is very against connecting tunnels with no views. Cost is also a factor.
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bhxdtw
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
That is also true. BAA is very against connecting tunnels with no views.

seriously ?? why ??....

Quoting TimRees (Thread starter):
but it isn't tall enough to let an A380 pass beneath (not that anyone is likely to be flying them from LGW, or anywhere, in the near future).

Who knows ?? after airlines start receiving the A380 in the year 2075 we may see some airlines operate them on high density routes to places like Orlando or such like...  Wink

Joe
 
MYT332
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
BAA is very against connecting tunnels with no views

Is that a joke?
One Life, Live it.
 
TimRees
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 4):
BAA is very against connecting tunnels with no views



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 6):
Is that a joke?

Thinking about the extremely long walks to get to the gates at LHR and LGW usually with very little to see due to the departure lounges etc blocking the views to the outside, I can't see that the short distance for this tunnel would be a major factor with some attractive lighting and art work to distract the passenger. Even a people mover of sorts perhaps for the distance would save the walking. Also would you have to close the taxiway to build a tunnel? Could you not work entirely beneath the surface or is that just too difficult. Did they shut 27R/09L at LHR when they built the tunnel to the central area as that would be at a similar depth I suspect.
I presume there is a plan to add a pier 7 to the south of pier 6. How will you get to it? Via another bridge?
 
cloudyapple
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting TimRees (Thread starter):
it isn't tall enough to let an A380 pass beneath

 checkmark  Clearance is 20m. A388 tail is 24m. It is not expected Gatwick will receive a lot of A388s. The bulk of these will go to Heathrow.

Quoting TimRees (Reply 7):
Thinking about the extremely long walks to get to the gates at LHR and LGW usually with very little to see due to the departure lounges etc blocking the views to the outside

These have been in place for years. We are talking about new build structures. They are determined to improve rather that retaining the status quo.

Quoting TimRees (Reply 7):
Even a people mover of sorts perhaps for the distance would save the walking.

The problem is the cost of building/operating/maintaining a people mover system. There is also an industry standard as for the maximum acceptable walking distance to the gates for passengers. Only if the distance is above that will one consider installing escalators/people movers. BAA is now a private company and is very cost concious.

Also the cost of building a tunnel is minimum 10x cost for a bridge. Plus cost of disruptions to ops for months.

Quoting TimRees (Reply 7):
Also would you have to close the taxiway to build a tunnel? Could you not work entirely beneath the surface or is that just too difficult. Did they shut 27R/09L at LHR when they built the tunnel to the central area as that would be at a similar depth I suspect.

The strength of the foundation for a taxiway is very different from that of a runway. And so is the strength of the concrete on top. Here you are talking about a void immediately below the taxiway concrete. It is not possible to cut a tunnel while providing temporary support to the taxiway above to keep it open. That will be suicidal. You will need to perform a cut and cover type tunnel, building a strengthened foundation for a taxiway bridge to cover the void. At Heathrow it was further below the runway surface. There was sufficient space to provide temporary support for the runway surface.
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MYT332
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 8):

These have been in place for years. We are talking about new build structures. They are determined to improve rather that retaining the status quo.

Doesn't T5 at LHR have remote piers connected via tunnels? Or, it will have?
One Life, Live it.
 
cloudyapple
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:17 am

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 9):
Doesn't T5 at LHR have remote piers connected via tunnels? Or, it will have?

Correct - but they do not have any alternatives there - to cross a span 600m wide (2 stands + twy A/B + grassy area) to Satellite B and, another 350m to Satellite C, the only way is by a people mover.

Whereas through better thought out design Gatwick and Stansted G2 could do away with such. You will see when the rendered designs are released.
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MYT332
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 10):
but they do not have any alternatives there

Well we could have had two very big and very impressive bridges! Then again, no, you're right.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 10):
You will see when the rendered designs are released.

I look forward to it. BAA have had some horrendous looking designs before.  yuck 
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BigOrange
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting TimRees (Thread starter):
it isn't tall enough to let an A380 pass beneath

You have to view this from the eyes of the architect who designed this bridge! When the A380's start operating into LGW, they are going to need to rebuild the bridge, which means that the architect will be needed again to design the new bridge. It's called job security.
 
vv701
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting TimRees (Thread starter):
I was wondering why the planners decided to link the North Terminal at LGW to the new pier 6 by bridge rather than a tunnel.

Because you cannot get shots like this from a tunnel?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Vasu



Quoting BigOrange (Reply 12):
When the A380's start operating into LGW, they are going to need to rebuild the bridge, which means that the architect will be needed again to design the new bridge. It's called job security.

Alternatively they could route the 380 along the taxiway in the top right of the above photo. Then a right turn and it can taxi south of the bridge and no problems.
 
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Vasu
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:07 am

Are there any airlines planning to operate the A380 into Gatwick at the moment?
 
A340600
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RE: LGW -why Not A Tunnel To Pier 2, North Terminal

Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
Because the planners at LGW are spotter-friendly

 rotfl 

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 5):
Who knows ?? after airlines start receiving the A380 in the year 2075 we may see some airlines operate them on high density routes to places like Orlando or such like...

 rotfl Indeed, by the time it actually comes out 787's will be vintage aircraft

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 10):
Whereas through better thought out design Gatwick and Stansted G2 could do away with such. You will see when the rendered designs are released.

Gatwick did away with its Pier 3 (Satelitte) transit system, totally pointless. I walked over to their recently and its a shorter walk than some Pier 2 gates! The satelitte refurbishment is really nice too!

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 12):
You have to view this from the eyes of the architect who designed this bridge! When the A380's start operating into LGW, they are going to need to rebuild the bridge, which means that the architect will be needed again to design the new bridge. It's called job security.

I don't think so, it is quite simple to get around it, and the gates around it don't even fit the A380.

I love the Pier 6 bridge and the actual pier itself, all very nice with excellent views out across aprons and runways,

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