Lumberton
Topic Author
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:07 am

Good stuff!
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+longer-range+G550+variant+to.html

Quote:
A notional future product development chart revealed by Gulfstream at NBAA showed in vague terms an aircraft following the G500/G550 around 2009 and fitting above its current large-cabin, long-range aircraft. Industry sources say the company is working on a widebody with a 13,300km (7,200nm) range, compared with the G550's 12,500km at Mach 0.8.
A larger cabin and longer range would step up competition with Bombardier's Global Express and nar­row the gap between Gulf­stream's top-end aircraft and airliner-derived business jets.
R-R is believed to have been working with Gulfstream on the project since before mid-2005. The selected engine is thought to be a derivative of the BR710 with a larger diameter fan and hot-section improvements to generate 16,000-17,000lb thrust (71-75kN). The BR710 powers the G500/G550 and at its highest thrust rating produces 15,385lb for the G550.
The engine's 1.2m (48in) fan diameter is expected to increase to around 1.32m, and incorporate compressor improvements from the International Aero Engines V2500 Select development. The fan diameter of the 18,500-23,800lb-thrust BR715 powering the discontinued Boeing 717 is 1.47m.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:35 am

Very intriuging.  scratchchin 
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
User avatar
N328KF
Posts: 5806
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:21 am

Uhhh, it makes a reference to a "bigger" BR710. Wouldn't that just be a BR715?  Wink
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Lumberton
Topic Author
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:33 am

Just a personal opinion, I think Gulfstream is out to trump the Dassault Falcon 7X. IIRC, the latter notched an impressive win in Europe with Netjets recently.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:39 am

If this works out well, I think you may see the current 5xx series retired and replaced with the "widebody".
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:44 am

Very interesting, I love Gulfstreams, they just never go out of date, many people see a G-II or G-III which can be over 20 years old and it still maintains a modern and elegant look. I have been inside a NetJets G-IV before and it is an awesome plane, imagine seeing this G555!
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 4):
Just a personal opinion, I think Gulfstream is out to trump the Dassault Falcon 7X.

This plane is more about exceeding the GX. The GX has the same range as the G550, the F7X has less range, but the GX is a wider cabin. The 550 is also competing with BBJs and ACJs, but.....with over 7200nm range, and a nice wide cabin (probably width in-between the G550 and B737), the 650 will be a plane that is a class of its own. It will have the range of an A380. I wonder if they wil make it wider than the Lineage 1000/E190 or will it be similar?
Only the paranoid survive
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
think Gulfstream is out to trump the Dassault Falcon 7X

Dassault has nothing on Gulfstream, heck no one does. Gulfstream has been the the best manufacture of large purpose built airplanes for over almost 50yrs, 48 to be exact. It will be hard if even possible to dethrone the king of large cabin, ultra-long bizjets.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
ksupilot
Posts: 635
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:27 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:41 am

I can't wait to see this aircraft. The Gulfstream is just an amazing family of aircraft.

The "Gulf XWB"  Smile
 
Lumberton
Topic Author
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:52 am

BTW, the "G555" designation in the title of this thread is a typo; it should read "G550". However, maybe someone from Gulfstream will pick up on this and designate the "fat" G550 a G555?  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 8):
maybe someone from Gulfstream will pick up on this and designate the "fat" G550 a G555?

Actually the designations comes from a rebranding strategy that happened a few years back. It was initially called the GV, as there was the GIV, etc. But they upgraded the GV at its midlife with more performance and new cockpit features and along with the previous acquisitions of the IAE Industries models which became part of the Gulfstream G150, etc., the GV was rebranded to G500, while the enhanced became G550. Since the Fat Boy will be an all new design, I would think it will have a designation of its own, perhaps G600, or G750-G800 (depicting range). They will most likely keep the current G550 in their product portfolio, while this all new model will definately tell the world that they own the upper end. I wonder if they are thinking of an airliner version for MaxJet or EOS?
Only the paranoid survive
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1849
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 2):
Uhhh, it makes a reference to a "bigger" BR710. Wouldn't that just be a BR715? {Wink}

well, to be fair, what they're describing isn't quite a -715 as it has slightly less thrust and a smaller diameter fan.

Considering the fan they're describing is almost halfway between a -710 and a -715, maybe they should call it the BR712.5 ...

 biggrin 

- litz
 
LimaNiner
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:46 pm

Cool! I'll wait 'till the "G777", though -- or whatever they end up calling their supersonic machine.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 10):
Since the Fat Boy will be an all new design, I would think it will have a designation of its own, perhaps G600, or G750-G800 (depicting range). They will most likely keep the current G550 in their product portfolio, while this all new model will definately tell the world that they own the upper end.

I'd imagine it'll be a G600, dropping the G500 in favor of the G550.

You can still get a GIV-SP, aka G450.
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 7):
Dassault has nothing on Gulfstream, heck no one does. Gulfstream has been the the best manufacture of large purpose built airplanes for over almost 50yrs, 48 to be exact. It will be hard if even possible to dethrone the king of large cabin, ultra-long bizjets.

To be honest the manufacturer's are not too far apart, but Gulfstream continues to be number 1 in customer support and that is the bottom line. When people pay $45 Million for a corporate/personal jet A.O.G. is not acceptable.

If Bombardier improves their parts delivery/customer support as promised the race will continue.

Here is a photo of a Bombardier Global interior which is Gulfstream's wide body (design specific) competitor that they are intending to improve their market share against.
Big version: Width: 1536 Height: 2048 File size: 1418kb
Interior of a Global 5000.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 12):
I'd imagine it'll be a G600, dropping the G500 in favor of the G550

Here is an interesting comparison. Note the similarity or dissimilarity to these Ultra Long Range Aircraft designators.

Boeing 737 (Business jet) executive version is BBJ1.
Dassault Falcon 900 is F900
Bombardier Global Express is GLEX.
Bombardier Global 5000 is GL5T.
Gulfstream Aerospace 550 is GLF5.

It's pretty obvious how the first letter is derived. Beyond that it almost appears the manufacturers are more closely related. Hmmmm???

Perhaps we could get Gulfstream to call their new wide body a G605! That would really confuse the air traffic controllers.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3636
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 5):
Very interesting, I love Gulfstreams, they just never go out of date, many people see a G-II or G-III which can be over 20 years old and it still maintains a modern and elegant look. I have been inside a NetJets G-IV before and it is an awesome plane, imagine seeing this G555!

I have been on BMW's GV, and was in awe. What a beauty! And their FA was even a nicer!!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 13):
To be honest the manufacturer's are not too far apart, but Gulfstream continues to be number 1 in customer support and that is the bottom line

Just as an example of that, the other night at here, one of the based G550's had a hydraulic system part fail on startup for a flight to france. About 2 hours later an Astra arrived from SAV with the parts that were needed, the aircraft was fixed and departed shortly thereafter.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:34 am

Yes, the Global Express, at least initially, had fairly poor reliability and support, when compared with Gulfstream anyway.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 5):
many people see a G-II or G-III which can be over 20 years old and it still maintains a modern and elegant look

 yes  checkmark 

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 7):
Dassault has nothing on Gulfstream, heck no one does

 yes  checkmark 

Quoting KSUpilot (Reply 8):
I can't wait to see this aircraft. The Gulfstream is just an amazing family of aircraft

 yes   checkmark 
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 16):
Just as an example of that, the other night at here, one of the based G550's had a hydraulic system part fail on startup for a flight to France. About 2 hours later an Astra arrived from SAV with the parts that were needed, the aircraft was fixed and departed shortly thereafter.

And that type of support is what the owners expect and it is a testimonial of why Gulfstream support is #1.  checkmark 
Bombardier has alot of catching up to do.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 16):
the other night at here, one of the based G550's had a hydraulic system part fail on startup for a flight to france. About 2 hours later an Astra arrived from SAV with the parts that were needed, the aircraft was fixed and departed shortly thereafter.

I've often wondered why the airlines don't do that.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Rheinbote
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:30 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
R-R is believed to have been working with Gulfstream on the project since before mid-2005. The selected engine is thought to be a derivative of the BR710 with a larger diameter fan and hot-section improvements to generate 16,000-17,000lb thrust (71-75kN).

Would that by chance be the same engine Mitusbishi and RR have been talking about for the 70-90 seat MRJ regional jet proposed by Mitsubishi?
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 7):
It will be hard if even possible to dethrone the king of large cabin, ultra-long bizjets.

I think Bombardier's already done that. The initial GLEX had a longer range and a larger cabin than the G-V, even though they shared the same engines. Gulfstream's customer support is legendary, though, the best in the business.
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 22):
I think Bombardier's already done that. The initial GLEX had a longer range and a larger cabin than the G-V, even though they shared the same engines. Gulfstream customer support is legendary, though, the best in the business.

But you can't just depend on a superior product, support plays a key role. The Global Express cabin is much larger. The Global Expresses runway performance numbers for takeoff and landing are far superior when compared mission to mission.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:30 pm

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 23):
The Global Expresses runway performance numbers for takeoff and landing are far superior when compared mission to mission.

The Gulfstream wing is efficient and very elegant, but it's hard to beat having slats, like the GLEX does.
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
Just a personal opinion, I think Gulfstream is out to trump the Dassault Falcon 7X. IIRC, the latter notched an impressive win in Europe with Netjets recently

Wouldn't it be fair to say that the Dassault Falcon 7X doesn't have anything on G550 or a Global Express?!

I suppose it is a smaller aircraft and yes they did get a mass order from Netjets. Is the Dassault Falcon 7X a more cost effective aircraft, or not?

Plenty of people who know a lot more about this than me on here.
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:10 pm

Getting back to the topic. Having the top place in customer support, developing excellent products, and the strong brand, I'd say Gulfstream will do well with this new plane. Imagine over 7200nm range in an ultra-large cabin, cruising at Mach 0.85 or higher over the Pacific and taking important business people to their meetings with no technical/fuel stops. Business people don't buy planes primarily on economics, they need the tool that saves them the most time. The G650 (or whatever) will not only do that, but perhaps open up other market opportunities including airliner versions for premium business class service. I think Gulfstream is on to something here.

TW
Only the paranoid survive
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 26):
but perhaps open up other market opportunities including airliner versions for premium business class service

Now wouldn't that be something special!
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:08 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 26):
Business people don't buy planes primarily on economics, they need the tool that saves them the most time

The time saving factor is the most common denominator of all decisions to purchase a jet. Reliability (w/customer support) is big, bad to show up Tuesday when the flight eventually leaves Wednesday.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 26):
The G650 (or whatever) will not only do that, but perhaps open up other market opportunities including airliner versions for premium business class service.

The RJ saved Bombardier's existence (o.k. with Canadian gov't backing of course). I don't see a G650 in a premium airliner version, (economically for the space, you'd be better with a Boeing or Airbus) it might compete with regional jets market but I doubt General Dynamics would ever fund that.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 28):
don't see a G650 in a premium airliner version, (economically for the space, you'd be better with a Boeing or Airbus) it might compete with regional jets market but I doubt General Dynamics would ever fund that.

I was thinking of companies like PrivatAir who fly wet leases on behalf of airlines like LH with ACJs and BBJs. The G650 will probably be wide enough to put 3 or maybe 4 business class seats across. The cabin will also be longer for more comfort as a corporate jet on these ultra-longer routes. If they can get 8-10 rows of these seats and all paying First Class or Business Class fares like on PrivatAir, and the plane can go over 6000 nm (with that kind of payload), that would be impressive. It is almost the front end of an A330. As for competing with RJs, wel that is my point, except analogously speaking it is premium class and intercontinental routes (versus Y class short haul for RJs). Imagine new non-stop routes like Vegas-Nice, Zurich-RDU. Don't forget that the CRJ came from the same thinking, it used to be a Challenger 601 flying 3500nm range. It could be a limited or unlimited market niche for secondary applications. I think that the GX and G550 could not do this because their cabins are too narrow and too short. That is exactly why the 737 and A319 are filling this void - but they have limited range, and are nor designed to fly at Mach 0.85 thus in the way of A340s.
Only the paranoid survive
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 29):
Don't forget that the CRJ came from the same thinking, it used to be a Challenger 601 flying 3500nm range.

Right, but that size of CRJ is mainly defunct now, right?

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 29):
If they can get 8-10 rows of these seats and all paying First Class or Business Class fares like on PrivatAir, and the plane can go over 6000 nm (with that kind of payload), that would be impressive.

I'm still not convinced that this market is very big (and perhaps that's OK with Gulfstream). I think there is a fine line between those wanting to pay for sharing a big G5 on a fixed route/time, with those being able to afford to charter their own G5.

I don't know how successful these Privatair/ Maxair flights are, in terms of profit and load factors....anyone? I assume that a seat on the big G5 would still be much more expensive than a Privatair 319 though.

Don't forget this isn't a huge market to begin with....perhaps 15-20% of total business jet sales (in terms of # of aircraft).

I see it says "...a notional future product development..."


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
gh123
Posts: 645
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:09 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 29):
Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 28):
don't see a G650 in a premium airliner version, (economically for the space, you'd be better with a Boeing or Airbus) it might compete with regional jets market but I doubt General Dynamics would ever fund that.

I was thinking of companies like PrivatAir who fly wet leases on behalf of airlines like LH with ACJs and BBJs. The G650 will probably be wide enough to put 3 or maybe 4 business class seats across. The cabin will also be longer for more comfort as a corporate jet on these ultra-longer routes. If they can get 8-10 rows of these seats and all paying First Class or Business Class fares like on PrivatAir, and the plane can go over 6000 nm (with that kind of payload), that would be impressive. It is almost the front end of an A330. As for competing with RJs, wel that is my point, except analogously speaking it is premium class and intercontinental routes (versus Y class short haul for RJs). Imagine new non-stop routes like Vegas-Nice, Zurich-RDU. Don't forget that the CRJ came from the same thinking, it used to be a Challenger 601 flying 3500nm range. It could be a limited or unlimited market niche for secondary applications. I think that the GX and G550 could not do this because their cabins are too narrow and too short. That is exactly why the 737 and A319 are filling this void - but they have limited range, and are nor designed to fly at Mach 0.85 thus in the way of A340s.

This is all good and well but it misses the reality of flying on business. You see many people realise that they need to fly with airlines which provide the best mileage programs.

If you fly business or first class all the time then you are going to want to try and collect as many airmiles as you can either to get those free flights for the holidays, fly children (not in my case) and when you retire.

Therefore I do not feel that the above (although great in theory) will actually take off. (if you'll please excuse the pun)
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 31):
This is all good and well but it misses the reality of flying on business. You see many people realise that they need to fly with airlines which provide the best mileage programs.

If you fly business or first class all the time then you are going to want to try and collect as many airmiles as you can either to get those free flights for the holidays, fly children (not in my case) and when you retire.

I think these 'business people' couldn't give a damn about Frequent Flyer programs.

FF programs are fine for those of us who cannot afford to pay $5000 (or even $1000) for a First Class or Business Class seat....if you CAN afford to pay that...you really don't care about miles.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Gh123 (Reply 31):
This is all good and well but it misses the reality of flying on business. You see many people realise that they need to fly with airlines which provide the best mileage programs.

If you fly business or first class all the time then you are going to want to try and collect as many airmiles as you can either to get those free flights for the holidays, fly children (not in my case) and when you retire.

Therefore I do not feel that the above (although great in theory) will actually take off. (if you'll please excuse the pun)

If you take a PrivatAir flight, it is flown and operated by PrivatAir crew, BUT the service and miles is actually Lufthansa or Swiss (depending on the booking). It is all transparent to the traveller, and all mileage is collected as LH of Swiss or Star. But more important is the fact that most business travellers who rack over 50,000 miles a year are usually fed up with flying, fed up with connections, missed connections, agonizing long connections, missed baggage on connections, .........plus the fewer the passengers on an plane, fewer the chances of delays due to late connecting passengers. This is how EOS, Maxjet, PrivatAir, and a few others are carving their business blue prints on.
Only the paranoid survive
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 3):
Just a personal opinion, I think Gulfstream is out to trump the Dassault Falcon 7X. IIRC, the latter notched an impressive win in Europe with Netjets recently.

Also likely that they want a slice from the lower end of the ACJ/BBJ market
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 32):
I think these 'business people' couldn't give a damn about Frequent Flyer programs.

We'll don't be so sure. My boss thinks I should give my earned frequent flyer tickets to him. Though he probably does not "give a damn" about how many he could collect.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 29):
The G650 will probably be wide enough to put 3 or maybe 4 business class seats across. The cabin will also be longer for more comfort as a corporate jet on these ultra-longer routes. If they can get 8-10 rows of these seats and all paying First Class or Business Class fares like on PrivatAir, and the plane can go over 6000 nm (with that kind of payload), that would be impressive.

How wide is this G650 going to be. Check out the photo in Reply 13. The four captain chairs are larger than the dual seats together. There would not be a way to get three across in this cabin. You could reasonably expect to get 6 or maybe 7 rows of 2. So that would be 14 pax.

Another thing is the operational cost per hour on the G550 is about 60% of the Boeing Business Jet or Airbus CJ. In practise, these aircraft are all set up corporate for 19 pax or less. A modified Boeing or Airbus could carry three or four times the number you might get in a G650. I don't think the economics would make sense.

If I had to choose I would prefer to ride on a Boeing across the pond in Business Class than on a G650 with identical seat but Business Class configuration.

But please don't let me discourage you Tangowhiskey, you have some valid points. No one ever thought FED EX would make it either. Thomas Edison said he had 100 bad ideas for every good one he came up with.
Keep your ideas flowing.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:47 pm

Thanks for the kind words FlyMatt2Bermud. Maybe someday there will be a need for a commercial airliner that has ultra long legs and able to carry only 30 or so F class pax with great economics and great performance. The reason I brought all this up is that over the last 5 years some things have been cooking:
- All premium class airlines for intercontinental routes have started up (EOS, Maxjet, etc.)
- Lufthansa and Swiss and others are getting wet lease operators such as PrivatAir to give this kind of service for their new added scheduled flights
- Boeing has been adding more and more fuel tanks in the BBJs for more and more range
- Every class of airplane from RJs and 737s to 777s have more range today than their first generation models
- Gulfstream and Bombardier did the same with the GX and G5 and came up with longer range GXRS and G550
- Now Gulfstream is going after more range and more cabin space with the G650

So Gulfstream will probably not do what I am saying, but there seems to be an upward market trend for F Class long range travel in new nonstop "scheduled" service markets
Only the paranoid survive
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:59 pm

You've made some interesting points from your observations.

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 36):
- Now Gulfstream is going after more range and more cabin space with the G650

Someone in the know asked me if I had heard anything about Bombardier's plan for a Global 7000. I also heard Mitsubishi was researching a jet? But I don't have any details.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Tangowhisky
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:26 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:24 pm

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 37):
Bombardier's plan for a Global 7000.

Well, if Gulfstream is going ahead with the G650, Bombardier may be hard pressed to launch an all new ultra-long range model. The GXRS fuselage diameter is the same as the Challenger 604 and all CRJs, so will Bombardier keep the same fuselage and put an all new wing? Perhaps the reason why Gulfstream is keeping this project so quiet is to have a strong head start.
Only the paranoid survive
 
flymatt2bermud
Posts: 551
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:58 am

RE: FI: Gulfstream Developing "fat" G555

Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 38):
will Bombardier keep the same fuselage and put an all new wing? Perhaps the reason why Gulfstream is keeping this project so quiet is to have a strong head start.

I don't know much about the Global 7000 but I have heard two people mention it.
Gulfstream is known for being on top of their game and they do a great job at it too!
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci

Who is online