HVNandrew
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DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:38 pm

Effective November 2, DL is upgrading it's daily JFK-SAN 738 flight to a 752. Glad to see DL continuing to invest in Socal. I hope the SAN route is here to stay this time. Anyone know how the flights have been doing?
 
B4REAL
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:47 pm

This equipment change is interesting. DL has added it and cut this route so many times over the years. I think once it was even operated by a 763 but I can't quite remember.

The new hub status and increased international feed may be enough to sustain this route finally.
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rwsea
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting HVNandrew (Thread starter):
Effective November 2, DL is upgrading it's daily JFK-SAN 738 flight to a 752. Glad to see DL continuing to invest in Socal. I hope the SAN route is here to stay this time. Anyone know how the flights have been doing?

Well, this is an upgrade in terms of capacity, but a downgrade in terms of passenger comfort - DL's 757s are pretty uncomfortable in coach.

Either way, good to see further DL expansion on the transcons!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 1):
DL has added it and cut this route so many times over the years. I think once it was even operated by a 763 but I can't quite remember.

Indeed, there was even a BizElite B763ER on the route for a while there. Earlier on in time, it also stopped in PHX for a while, and the route was then operated with B752.
 
B4REAL
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 3):
Indeed, there was even a BizElite B763ER on the route for a while there. Earlier on in time, it also stopped in PHX for a while, and the route was then operated with B752.

I thought so! Thanks for piping up. They had JFK-SAN with the failed "Business Elite-US" domestic Biz product.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
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lindy field
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:30 pm

I could be mistaken but I believe I read in the forum just a few weeks ago that DL is refurbishing its 757 fleet interiors with better IFE and that these aircraft would be placed on transcon routes. An ex Song plane, for example, would be an improvement from the 738 in terms of flying experience.
 
panamair
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:10 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 2):
Well, this is an upgrade in terms of capacity, but a downgrade in terms of passenger comfort - DL's 757s are pretty uncomfortable in coach.

The 752s for JFK-SAN will be the refurbished ones with AVOD PTVs at each seat (with an F cabin). Pitch in Y is supposed to be at 33" - better than the regular DL 757s with 31".
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:10 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 1):
This equipment change is interesting. DL has added it and cut this route so many times over the years. I think once it was even operated by a 763 but I can't quite remember.

That is correct. During the late 90's, 1998 or 1999, DL made a big push of introducing Domestic BizE on JFK routes, which included LAX, SFO, SAN, PDX, and perhaps also SEA, as well as BOS-LAX/SFO. Flights where either on domestic 763ERs that only flew these legs, or regular 763ERs that were continuing off international flights. Did not work out too well, unfortunately, and all the immigration fuss after 9-11 certainly didn't help the international same-flight tag-on legs either.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 2):
Well, this is an upgrade in terms of capacity, but a downgrade in terms of passenger comfort - DL's 757s are pretty uncomfortable in coach.

Think new interiors  Wink .
 
B4REAL
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 5):
DL is refurbishing its 757 fleet interiors with better IFE and that these aircraft would be placed on transcon routes. An ex Song plane, for example, would be an improvement from the 738 in terms of flying experience.

The 738s will get the IFE system as well, though, the 757 fleet is first in line for the conversion.
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panamair
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 8):
The 738s will get the IFE system as well, though, the 757 fleet is first in line for the conversion.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the 738 conversion may not quite be ready yet - hence the converted 752 on JFK-SAN as DL had indicated that by November all JFK transcons would have the new domestic long-haul product.
 
DCAYOW
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:18 am

In fact a Song aircraft was here last week, don't know whether it was doing JFK, CVG or ATL
Retorne ao céu...
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 6):
The 752s for JFK-SAN will be the refurbished ones with AVOD PTVs at each seat (with an F cabin). Pitch in Y is supposed to be at 33" - better than the regular DL 757s with 31".

That will be a great improvement (the seat pitch especially) and will be very welcome for all transcon flights (including West Coast-ATL). I know DL's 757s have industry standard pitch as-is, but it sure seems tight. Especially compared to the 738/763. The numbers might say these are all the same, but the 757 seems the least comfortable.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:00 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Thread starter):
Anyone know how the flights have been doing?

Its been doing pretty well especially on weekends. I almost got stuck out there last month because of an over sold situtation.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
san747
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:33 am

Good news for SAN... I'm interested to see how AA and B6 react to this move... I know B6 can't "upgrade" the route, only add frequencies if they feel it's necessary, but AA certainly could upgrade on of their 2 daily 757s to a 767-300 if they felt they had to to compete with DL...

As much as I hate competitive wars on routes, if it can lead to some AA widebodies at SAN, go for it! Big grin
Scotty doesn't know...
 
PanAm747
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:39 am

The interesting thing is the change of times.

This summer, I believe, had the flight as a red-eye. This one is a morning flight timed to coincide with the bank of international destinations that leave in late afternoon. The return flight corresponds as well.

Quote:
As much as I hate competitive wars on routes, if it can lead to some AA widebodies at SAN, go for it!

Why limit it to AA? Let's have all the airlines start a wide-body war!! Things just haven't been the same since BA's 777 disappeared from our skies.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 14):
Why limit it to AA? Let's have all the airlines start a wide-body war!! Things just haven't been the same since BA's 777 disappeared from our skies.

Don't you guys still get a few of DL's 763 to ATL everyday?
 
PanAm747
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:18 am

Quote:
Don't you guys still get a few of DL's 763 to ATL everyday?

We do - we're down to a couple of DL and HA 767's for passengers, and the occasional A300 from FedEx, but that's it.

UA gates would be too crowded with a 767 there at T1, especially in the morning. AA might have better luck with a 767 at their gates (they have used them in the past SAN-LAX-IAD and SAN-LAX-BOS as well as SAN-JFK). NW has no need of a wide-body here, and CO's wide-bodies are too busy flying internationally.

Doesn't leave us too many options here.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 7):
That is correct. During the late 90's, 1998 or 1999, DL made a big push of introducing Domestic BizE on JFK routes, which included LAX, SFO, SAN, PDX, and perhaps also SEA, as well as BOS-LAX/SFO. Flights where either on domestic 763ERs that only flew these legs, or regular 763ERs that were continuing off international flights. Did not work out too well, unfortunately, and all the immigration fuss after 9-11 certainly didn't help the international same-flight tag-on legs either.

It is common to confuse BE service with aircraft that were equipped with BE cabins. The only domestic BE service was BOS-LAX and JFK-LAX/SFO. Business cabin 767-300s served many other domestic routes, but as international expansion has continued, and the MD11 fleet was retired, there are now very few domestic routes that see BE equipped 767/777 aircraft. Then there is the other confusion... domestic 757/737-800 routes that are classified as business class simply because the aircraft continues from the hub to an international point in Mexico, for example.
 
san747
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 16):
we're down to a couple of DL and HA 767's for passengers, and the occasional A300 from FedEx, but that's it.

UA gates would be too crowded with a 767 there at T1, especially in the morning. AA might have better luck with a 767 at their gates (they have used them in the past SAN-LAX-IAD and SAN-LAX-BOS as well as SAN-JFK). NW has no need of a wide-body here, and CO's wide-bodies are too busy flying internationally.

Doesn't leave us too many options here.

AA is the most likely option for new widebody service to SAN, at least domestically. PR also is a possibility next year, if they acquire the aircraft they're looking for...

Otherwise, the widebody situation at SAN looks like it won't be changing for a while unfortunately...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
rjpieces
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:15 pm

It's amazing to see how Delta builds up JFK just to abandon it a few years later. I don't think much of this buildup will be here in a few years sadly...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Upgrades JFK-SAN

Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:17 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
It is common to confuse BE service with aircraft that were equipped with BE cabins. The only domestic BE service was BOS-LAX and JFK-LAX/SFO

The Domestic BizE product included other markets. Just give me time to get home from work and let me dig up the schedules  Wink .

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
It's amazing to see how Delta builds up JFK just to abandon it a few years later. I don't think much of this buildup will be here in a few years sadly...

And you base this assumption on what, exactly?

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