konrad
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:54 am

Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:03 am

I heard that back in the 90s LOT Polish was "sharing" one or two 767 aircraft with Air New Zealand. The idea came from the fact that LOT long-haul service is highly seasonal with high demand only throughtout the summer and much less traffic in winter. This is still true today. For the 2006 summer timetable 7 LO 767s were crossing the Atlantic, the winter schedule requires only 3-4 airframes. I don't know that much about New Zealand, but if they have any leisure seasonal traffic this would be during the southern hemisphere summer i.e. in winter  Smile

What do you think about such an arrangement ? Would it work for other airline pairs ? In particular, nowadays LO and NZ could share their Star Alliance livery planes just adding the small title of the appropriate airline. Or maybe swap 777 for 767(787 in future) to adjust capacity to changing demand ?

Two pictures to illustrate the 767 swap:


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Photo © Piotr Pasnicki
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Photo © Craig Murray

 
kiwiandrew

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:07 am

Air Europe ( the original UK one , now long since disappeared ) and Air Florida also long gone used to swap 737s as they had opposite peak seasons
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:12 am

Not really sharing, but HV does a lot of leasing.

They often lease out aircraft in winter to AB and SA)">SY . During summer they lease aircraft from SA.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:15 am

I know USA3000 lease some aircraft during there high season from a European/UK Charter carrier as there seasons are different. Also Sun Country does the same.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:16 am

Long ago NZ used to share their DC-10s with BA - the a/c would operate AKL-HNL-LAX as an NZ flight then carry on LAX-LHR as a BA flight - no codesharing . Sometimes the a/c would operate other sectors for BA as well (LHR-MIA-LHR for example ) before returning to LAX to be picked up again by NZ
 
ehho
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:17 am

IIRC MP does it too with a holiday carrier in MIA. They share MP's A320s.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
BMED
Posts: 722
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:01 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:18 am

I think that Star airlines in France and Air Transat of Canada share their fleets. They both fly the A320 and A330 in the same seat layout and similar colours so that when aircraft go from one carrier to the other there are less probelms in terms of layouts etc.
Living the jetset life! No better way to be
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Konrad (Thread starter):
In particular, nowadays LO and NZ could share their Star Alliance livery planes just adding the small title of the appropriate airline

Talking about Star and NZ, I heard an SAS guy a year ago mentioning the possibility of SK sharing widebodies with NZ, as the seasons are completely opposite.. Don't think plans were far ahead at all though, but.. There are too many problems, for instance with SAS' unions/crews who want level working hours year-round; extra a/c's in the summer would mean temporarily putting people out of work during the winter, or putting in non-SK staff in the summer.. Sharing of pilots etc... Uuuuuhhhh no we can't have that in SK.. buhuuu... The unions in SK should shut their mouths and see the potential in this.. At least shut their mouths.

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:28 am

JM borrows 2 757s from North American during peak times. BW has used a wide variety of airlines during fleet shortage times. World Airways, LOT, Air Atlanta etc..
There is something special about planes....
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 7):
Talking about Star and NZ, I heard an SAS guy a year ago mentioning the possibility of SK sharing widebodies with NZ, as the seasons are completely opposite

would be a bit messy - SK has A330/A340 while NZ has 763 / 744 / 772
 
cardiffairtaxi
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:08 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Konrad (Thread starter):

I know My Travel and i believe First Choice Airways use A320's of Skyservice,Canada,during the UK summer IT operations.
Also,UK aircraft operate in Canada during the Winter.
There are quite a few canadian pilots in Cardiff during the summer,for these aircraft.
I was also talking to a UK MYT pilot,who was re-locating to Indonesia for 2.5 months,to operate Hadj flights in a scandinavian MYT A333-300.
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:56 am

Air Canada and Eastern shared L-1011s (two, IIRC) as Eastern's peak season was the winter and AC's the summer. I believe the arrangement lasted about 5 or 6 years.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):

would be a bit messy - SK has A330/A340 while NZ has 763 / 744 / 772

Yes, it would, but the thing is, if SAS just agreed that NZ pilots and possibly some crew could fly the extra SK-capacity in the summer, the a/c type is of less importance.. Light maintenance could be overcome, no problems with the more extensive.. OK, there would be some issues regarding configurations etc., but still, could be overcome.. But the SAS unions would probably never allow that.. "NZ crew flying THEIR routes.." get over it SK-crew!..

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 5):
IIRC MP does it too with a holiday carrier in MIA. They share MP's A320s.

Nope, MP (wet)leases a 320 from TACA and is operated exclusively for MP.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:40 am

The TUI group do a lot of plane sharing. I think it would be a great perk of alliances if they shared planes a bit more. Would help the smaller members
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:03 am

Possibly the most well known shared aircraft was when BA and AF shared their Concordes with Braniff and, at the same time BA shared with SQ.

As the US is very restrictive about foreign operated and registered aircraft being operated by American airlines, very special arrangements had to be made to facilitate the 'share' with Braniff. First British CAA approval had to be obtained for BA to re register their Concordes to include numbers in the registration when British aircraft registrations have always been alpha and non-numeric registrations. So, for example, G-BOAE was reregistered G-N94AE.

This aircraft would - like all the Concordes in both the BA and AF fleets - occasionally be put into service on the LHR-IAD route. When it reached IAD it was immediately reregistered N94AE. A special patch that would survive the round trip to DFW was then put over the 'G-' part of the registration. The BA crew who had flown the aircraft from LHR would leave the aircraft. It would then be boarded by a full Braniff crew and a BA flight crew. The Braniff crew would bring aboard all the necessary US legal documentation while the British flight crew would remove the legal British documentation from the cockpit and place it in a special lockable box in the toilet at the rear of the aircraft. The Braniff crew would then fly the aircraft IAD-DFW with, for insurance purposes, the British flight crew sitting behind them.

Once the aircraft had been flown back to IAD by a Braniff crew, that crew would carry all the legal documentation off the aircraft, the US registration would be cancelled, the former British registration restored, the British registration and other documentation would be recovered from the toilet and the aircraft would fly back to LHR with a British crew.

Here is a photo of N94AE at DFW and the same aircraft now registered G-N94AE at LHR:

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Photo © Andrew Abshier
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Photo © Robert Pittuck


To further complicate matters BA was, at that time (1979) sharing the Concorde formerly and more recently registered G-BOAD with SQ on the LHR-SIN route. The right side of the fuselage and tail of this aircraft was painted in SQ livery, the left side in BA livery. As this aircraft was also sometimes used by BA on its LHR-IAD service it was reregistered G-N94AD and, on those occasions when it was also shared with Braniff, N94AD:

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Photo © Andrew Abshier

 
777wt
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:29 am

At my airline, we have at least a few spare planes which is sent out for charter or revenue service should one go out of service for an maintenance problem which would take longer than 2 hours to be put back into service.

These spare planes are painted white with a just a plain blue tail because they're often used with different airlines my airline does the flying for them.

Like last night one was flying for United Express, then this morning it was flying for Delta Connection. It can be a backup for US Airways also should the need arise, same goes for American Eagle.

These planes are like "universal" to all 4 airlines my airline does the flying for.

There's another type which is the same color also but it's used for same except American Eagle.

The only differences in these planes are the announcement CD's for safety briefing have to be the correct one used for the carrier it's flying for, and the food/refreshments on board.
Magazines too...

Everything else is the same including the seats

Like today one was flying for Delta Connection but also had a United Express safety breifing CD on board from the day before.
And the food on board are from Delta mainline including the yummy biscoff cookies!
 
jetset7e7
Posts: 1009
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:56 pm

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:10 pm

Excel Airways do it with Miami Air and Sunwing of Canada all year round swapping 737's between the fleets.

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:11 am

Air 2000 used to send a lot of 757s over to Canada 3000 for the winter but since C3 went under DP (now First Choice) try and send their 757s over to Skyservice.

My Travel sent a fairly large number of aircraft to SSV but now that First Choice and Thomas Cook UK send theirs over to SSV too it means that the demand for aircraft winter leases has dropped (another effect from the loss of Canada 3000).

Of course, First Choice lease in some aircraft for the summer from Skyservice (SSV flight crew with FCA cabin crew), eg BFS and CWL bases are on the Canadian aircraft (which retain their Canadian registrations).

I think the DUB aircraft is also from SSV, not sure on that one.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:28 am

Years ago...

Ansett 727 Cook Islands International/Polynesian Airlines (each side painted differently)

Air Pacific - Royal Tongan 737

Western Airlines - Air Pacific DC-10

LAM operating LIS-SAL flights for TACV between now discontinued MPM-LIS-MPM flights

Sobelair operating many a flight on behalf of SABENA

SABENA - British Caledonian joint venture (and possible the world's first code-share) BRU-LGW-ATL with SABENA 747-100's.
 
NWADC9
Posts: 3938
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 12:33 am

RE: Airlines Sharing Planes?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:40 am

Sun Country and Transavia does it with their 737-800's and I think 737-700's as well. USA3000 and Thomas Cook/Condor do it too with A320's.
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard