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FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:53 pm

Recent announcement on new European services raise more questions about US longhaul fleet. Now with the potential delay of A350, will US consider ordering Boeing? Why not?

IIRC, US has already paid back the loan it received from Airbus. Any advantage for US to keep waiting instead of wasting a small window of opportunity to expand its internaitonal services... not to mention a new carrier will be awarded the right to fly to China in 2008. US needs to act quickly.


[QUOTE]"We still have a lot of options with the Philadelphia hub to fly into Europe with (Boeing) 757s, 767s and (Airbus) A330s," he said.

The newspaper reported, however, that US Airways lacked the planes to launch routes from its Phoenix base as well as longer flights from Philadelphia.

[QUOTE]

Appearing in today's paper.

Airbus A350 delay could affect US Airways - FT
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keesje
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:10 pm

Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation, as we have seen dozens of probably / likely to be cancelled airbus orders.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-...irbus+order+cancelling&sa=N&tab=nw

It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves? What is behind this? Pleasing the readers / customers?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
11Bravo
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation,...

How could it be anything else but unclear and speculative? That seems to me to be a perfect description of the A350 program itself: unclear and speculative. Nobody knows what the A350 will be or when it will be built. Given that the aircraft specs and the EIS change every few months, what do you expect?
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slz396
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Reading the article it seems nothing more then all kinds of unclear sources and speculation, as we have seen dozens of probably / likely to be cancelled airbus orders.It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves?

It is indeed getting ridiculous; for months we are reading stories based on unclear sources, unnamed persons and often wild interpretation or speculation about Airbus orders which are likely to get cancelled...

The story always follows the same pattern:

(fill in the airline) which ordered (fill in the number) of A3XX (fill in the type designator) could potentially cancel its order as it reviews its commitment following (fill in the announcement).

As source for this 'news' the article quotes comments from the airline which do not fully rule out such a move as suggested by the article indeed (yet do not really confirm it either), but to make sure the reader reads it the way they see it, underpin their interpretation by referring to previous talk about other airlines which are also said to consider cancelling, forgetting these rumours are based on the same sort of ambiguous interpretation of general statements from that airline as well.

In doing so for months already, the press has created for itself an entire database of sources which -according to them- deliver strong evidence their self-created reality of interwoven events is for real, in a way similar to the story of WMD in Iraq: there were none, but everybody talked about it and used each other as a respected source: Bush used the CIA as a source, the CIA used intelligence agencies from abroad in support of their thesis, who in turn used much of what the CIA had to tell them and foreign government leaders pointed to Bush and the CIA in defence of their own intelligence... which in the end all proved to be wrong: oops, we got carried away a bit there, didn't we?

The articles then go on with once more copy-pasting a pre-written text about the recent delays to the A380 and A350 and the managerial shake up of Airbus. The more financially oriented publications then also refer once more to the fact EADS bought out BAe recently.

And there you have it: a new article, ready for publication, which nicely falls in line with what has been published in the recent past, so no need to be cautious or balanced.... if the article does not match the reality now, reality might just match the article at some point and otherwise, at least we've delivered some nice reading for now and we wont be blamed later for wildly speculating as we are just staying main stream, aren't we?
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:42 pm

I'm wondering about the financial obligation(s) US has to Airbus, should they decide to cancel.
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Stitch
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:46 pm

If US orders anything, it will be additional A330s as it best fits their current widebody fleet strategy. So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.
 
Lumberton
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:46 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 4):
I'm wondering about the financial obligation(s) US has to Airbus, should they decide to cancel.

Parker has been quoted as saying there are none and that the loans that Airbus granted to help them exit bankruptcy have been paid back.
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par13del
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:51 pm

Regarding the loan agreement, my understanding is that Airbus provided financial aid to US in return for being a launch customer for the A350. US has supposedly repaid the loan, does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains, or did they also have a clause in the contract which allowed the "obligation" to be converted into a "direct purchase"?
 
columba
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.

This might be the best solution and I believe US will go this way.
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warreng24
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
If US orders anything, it will be additional A330s as it best fits their current widebody fleet strategy. So if there are any "financial obligations" regarding the A350, no doubt Airbus will waive them for additional A330 or A320 family orders.

I can definately see US leasing or ordering some additional A330's as a stop-gap measure until the A350 becomes available.
 
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 9):
I can definately see US leasing or ordering some additional A330's as a stop-gap measure until the A350 becomes available.

Like there are lots of A330's lying around.
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AirCop
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
Like there are lots of A330's lying around.

 checkmark 

Perhaps some used 340's will find their way to Phoenix?
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 7):
Regarding the loan agreement, my understanding is that Airbus provided financial aid to US in return for being a launch customer for the A350. US has supposedly repaid the loan, does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains, or did they also have a clause in the contract which allowed the "obligation" to be converted into a "direct purchase"?

There is nothing tying US to Airbus and the 350. I would'nt be suprised if you see US order the 787 early next year.
 
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):

It is becoming a remarkable / strange phenomenon ! Hasn't the press noticed themselves? What is behind this? Pleasing the readers / customers?



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
(fill in the airline) which ordered (fill in the number) of A3XX (fill in the type designator) could potentially cancel its order as it reviews its commitment following (fill in the announcement).

It probably has something to do with Airbus selling delivery slots for airplanes which won't be available for 2, 3, maybe 4 years after they were contracted.

That is just a guess....

Cheers
 
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Stitch
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
Like there are lots of A330's lying around.

Evidently Airbus is not having a problem getting them into airlines hands since SQ and LH, along with others, have placed orders for the model with deliveries starting next year.

So US should not have a problem acquiring them direct from Airbus or via lease (who could acquire them direct for Airbus) for delivery within the next two years.
 
delawareusa
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:10 am

It would make sense for US to pick up some used 767-200er, and possibly even get some 300 or 400 new from Boeing. The concept of having a LAS or PHX aircraft that can get to Europe makes A330 less practicle long term.

I doubt they would go with the economics of A340, unless they can get some cheap.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
Perhaps some used 340's will find their way to Phoenix?

I think a few A330-300 with four hair dryers slung under the wings (AKA A340-300's!) could be a good option for US Airways, as an interim measure until the A350 comes out.

I believe Air Canada will soon have a few spare, once the 777's start coming online.

The A340 could really open up some markets for US Airways like PHL-NRT, PHL-HKG, PHX-LGW, etc...
 
flysherwood
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
In doing so for months already, the press has created for itself an entire database of sources which -according to them- deliver strong evidence their self-created reality of interwoven events is for real, in a way similar to the story of WMD in Iraq: there were none, but everybody talked about it and used each other as a respected source: Bush used the CIA as a source, the CIA used intelligence agencies from abroad in support of their thesis, who in turn used much of what the CIA had to tell them and foreign government leaders pointed to Bush and the CIA in defence of their own intelligence... which in the end all proved to be wrong: oops, we got carried away a bit there, didn't we?

The articles then go on with once more copy-pasting a pre-written text about the recent delays to the A380 and A350 and the managerial shake up of Airbus. The more financially oriented publications then also refer once more to the fact EADS bought out BAe recently.

And there you have it: a new article, ready for publication, which nicely falls in line with what has been published in the recent past, so no need to be cautious or balanced.... if the article does not match the reality now, reality might just match the article at some point and otherwise, at least we've delivered some nice reading for now and we wont be blamed later for wildly speculating as we are just staying main stream, aren't we?

What the hell does this have to do with the topic? Is it not a fact that US Airways will not be able to plan anything for the future with the A350w?? whatever plane the way it is going right now? STAY ON TOPIC
 
LAXintl
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 7):
does anyone know if the obligation to take the A350 remains,

In a recent employee meeting Parker stated the company was under no obligations to take the A350, however they were watching with interest the events at Airbus.

He also stated the company was in no particular hurry, but the delay could become advantageous as the carrier might end up with a much more capable aircraft then first envisaged.

US Air next aircraft priority is a competition to replace the large 737 fleet, with either more A32x aircraft or, new fleet of 737NGs.
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Lumberton
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
As source for this 'news' the article quotes comments

Well according to the link provided by the thread starter the "source" is the President of U.S. Airways. Isn't that "credible" enough?

Quote:
US Airways President Scott Kirby told the economic daily that the company had no firm delivery dates for the A350 XWB.


[Edited 2006-10-28 00:45:30]

[Edited 2006-10-28 00:45:57]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
FCYTravis
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
US Air next aircraft priority is a competition to replace the large 737 fleet, with either more A32x aircraft or, new fleet of 737NGs.

No, not really. There's not enough efficiency advantage in either the A32x or the 737NG, and both are "old-generation" aircraft - the last thing US wants to do is refleet with dinosaur aluminum jets when the "next-generation" narrowbodies aren't more than a decade or so away. The 737 fleet can be shrunk with some deliveries of already-ordered A32x and E190 aircraft, but I wouldnt expect a wholesale replacement for some time to come.
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Ken777
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 18):
however they were watching with interest the events at Airbus.

Isn't everyone?  Smile
 
steeler83
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 12):
There is nothing tying US to Airbus and the 350. I would'nt be suprised if you see US order the 787 early next year.

Stirring the pot here?

Heck, I suppose that IF they do this, that we'll start to see threads about how the A350 was doomed to failure even before its first customer even takes delivery, especially with US being the launch customer. Oh crap, now I am  stirthepot 

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 20):
There's not enough efficiency advantage in either the A32x or the 737NG, and both are "old-generation" aircraft

The 737NGs are "old-generation???" I think of MD80s and older 737 aircraft (733/734/735) as "old generation here. I dunno, I guess planes that are now 8-10 years old are considered inefficient and old-generation now. What are the MD80s then, antiques with wings??? The 733s and 34s that US is flying now still have a bit of life left in them and probably will not be fully replaced at least for another 5-10 years...

Besides, I don't think US is even interested in the 737NG. They will go with A319/320 and E90s for their 733/734 replacements and the A321 for the 757 replacement (on domestic routes, as the 757s will likely go to PHL for UK/Western Europe routes (or PIT for a LGW route, should US look into this when the time is right...)
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jdwfloyd
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
E90s for their 733/734 replacements

When the 190s were ordered it was stated that they were a expansion A/C, not a replacement for anything. There are no plans to park any other A/C in the next few years.

IMO the 190s were ordered to tie the midwest into the east network. Markets like OMA, OKC, SAT, AUS, ABQ, ICT.... ect. The 190s may not fly these routes, but the will free up other A/C that could.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
The 733s and 34s that US is flying now still have a bit of life left in them and probably will not be fully replaced at least for another 5-10 years...

Right, that's exactly my point. By that time, the "next-generation" narrowbody should be in the design/launch order stage, and I would expect US to look then for a replacement option - either Boeing or Airbus.

I agree with you re: the B752 and A321. Many of the 757s are used now on high-density domestic routes like PHL-BOS and CLT-MCO, where their higher performance isn't really needed. The 757s will probably hang around domestically for hot and high service to LAS and the short-strip Caribbean stuff.
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FCYTravis
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 23):
When the 190s were ordered it was stated that they were a expansion A/C, not a replacement for anything. There are no plans to park any other A/C in the next few years.

Yes, and if you believe that I've got beachfront property next door to the Sandcastle to sell ya.

I don't think they're going to wholesale dump the 737s, but as dribs and drabs of them come up for lease, I'd expect US not to be particularly hardball about keeping them.
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jdwfloyd
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 25):
I don't think they're going to wholesale dump the 737s, but as dribs and drabs of them come up for lease, I'd expect US not to be particularly hardball about keeping them.

Perhaps on or two more A/C, but from the people at work I have talked to they need every A/C in the fleet. The last run on A/C being sent to the desert most of what we needed to get rid of was sent away.
I would expect this spring we will see a rush of "US announces service to XXX from CLT/PHL" postings.
 
LAXintl
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 20):
I wouldnt expect a wholesale replacement for some time to come.

Parker specifically stated they are looking to replace the 737-300/400 fleets at both US West & East and news would be forthcoming in '07.

He also stated that the A320 series was far from a shoe-in. The 737NG could be quite a possible as the company has much infrastructure in place and crew experience on the 737 series, so it would not be burdensome to run a A320 and 737NG fleet side by side. There would be enough economies of scales to opt for a dual supplier fleet.
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supa7E7
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:23 am

US's plan (we can say this without doubt) is to get to China by 2012 or earlier, no matter what. This means A350, 787, A340, whatever is necessary. So they are discussing how that obvious goal is to be accomplished, probably.
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FCYTravis
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
Parker specifically stated they are looking to replace the 737-300/400 fleets at both US West & East and news would be forthcoming in '07.

Hmm, very interesting. I missed that part. Thanks!  Smile
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USairways16BWI
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:07 pm

IIRC US was looking at some A332s ( i thought they put in an order for several of them). the -200s could be used for the PHX/LAS-Europe routes, and at least for a while, solve the problem of not enough long range planes until the A350s are ready.
 
steeler83
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 30):
IIRC US was looking at some A332s ( i thought they put in an order for several of them). the -200s could be used for the PHX/LAS-Europe routes, and at least for a while, solve the problem of not enough long range planes until the A350s are ready.

I heard that myself...
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting DelawareUSA (Reply 15):
It would make sense for US to pick up some used 767-200er, and possibly even get some 300 or 400 new from Boeing.

While it seems they plan (need) to keep the 762's for a while, I would think that if they did acquire additional 767's that it'd be 763's - 762's appear to be on the outs with carriers due to the casm relative to similar sized 757's or larger 763's.

If they need something near term, I wonder if a dozen or so 763's - acquired new or "newer" through a leasing company - might benefit them more? Just a thought.

-Dave
-Dave
 
N670UW
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 30):
US was looking at some A332s ( i thought they put in an order for several of them). the -200s could be used for the PHX/LAS-Europe routes, and at least for a while, solve the problem of not enough long range planes until the A350s are ready.

IIRC, US Airways already has 10 A330-200's on order for delivery starting in 2009. Additionally, I believe there are still 9 A330-300's on order, as well (on top of the 9 they already have).
 
mah584jr
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting N670UW (Reply 34):
Additionally, I believe there are still 9 A330-300's on order, as well (on top of the 9 they already have).

This statement is false, but 10 332's are on order.
 
columba
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
The 737NGs are "old-generation???" I think of MD80s and older 737 aircraft (733/734/735) as "old generation here. I dunno,

You see that you are getting old as I started to be interested in aviation in the mid 80s the 737-300, MD 80 and A320 were the newest jets around now even the 737NG is considered old generation....
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ikramerica
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:51 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 27):
The 737NG could be quite a possible as the company has much infrastructure in place and crew experience on the 737 series, so it would not be burdensome to run a A320 and 737NG fleet side by side.

This actually makes sense. It would cost less to put 737NG into the old 737Classic spots than to go all A320. Ground equipment, mechanics, pilots, all geared toward 737s would have to be repurposed and retrained at significant cost if they were to go all A320...

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 30):
IIRC US was looking at some A332s ( i thought they put in an order for several of them). the -200s could be used for the PHX/LAS-Europe routes, and at least for a while, solve the problem of not enough long range planes until the A350s are ready.



Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 36):
This statement is false, but 10 332's are on order.

That solves the range problem for now. 332s have enough range for all of the USA to Europe, Tokyo and South America under most conditions. 787-8s would be more efficient, however.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:59 pm

The 73G is "old generation" in the sense that its technology and efficiency is not nearly up to the standards now set by the coming B787. The 787 standard is, I think, what you'll see airlines looking for in their next narrowbodies because of the steadily rising costs of fuel - small fluctuations notwithstanding, the overall trend will be nowhere but up for the foreseeable future.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
slz396
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 19):
according to the link provided by the thread starter the "source" is the President of U.S. Airways. Isn't that "credible" enough?

Almost every paragraph of the reuters report mentions its source and the President of US Airways has only confirmed they don't have fixed delivery dates for their A350XWB yet; the rest of the article (which is what this discussion is about and which gave the article its title) is pure speculation and fully sourceless...
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 36):
It would cost less to put 737NG into the old 737Classic spots than to go all A320. Ground equipment, mechanics, pilots, all geared toward 737s would have to be repurposed and retrained at significant cost if they were to go all A320...

Not necessarily - eliminating one type would also help to save costs on the mid and long term.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
USairways16BWI
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting N670UW (Reply 33):
I believe there are still 9 A330-300's on order, as well (on top of the 9 they already have).

oh...do you know when they are due to be delivered?
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting UsAirways16bwi (Reply 40):
oh...do you know when they are due to be delivered?

Currently they only have 10 A330-223s on order - with delivery undefinitely postponed.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 41):
Currently they only have 10 A330-223s on order - with delivery undefinitely postponed.

Or early 2008 thru 2009.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 38):
the rest of the article (which is what this discussion is about and which gave the article its title) is pure speculation and fully sourceless...

False. It's a fact that Doug Parker has stated that US Airways is under absolutely no obligation to purchase the 777-sized A350XWB, when what they actually ordered was a 787-competitor. He's also stated that the airline is investigating its options for widebody aircraft.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
A330323X
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 26):
Perhaps on or two more A/C, but from the people at work I have talked to they need every A/C in the fleet. The last run on A/C being sent to the desert most of what we needed to get rid of was sent away.

Unfortunately for US, it's not returning planes voluntarilty at this point. It obtained lease rates during its second bankruptcy that are lower than current market rates. As such, lessors are choosing to take back the planes at lease expiration or exercise early termination options on the leases (if they exist) where US isn't ponying up the extra cash, which is why 3 757s will be leaving the fleet this winter.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 32):
If they need something near term, I wonder if a dozen or so 763's - acquired new or "newer" through a leasing company - might benefit them more? Just a thought.

They just don't exist is the problem. US has been searching for 763ERs to lease for about 4 years now, and hasn't been able to find any that fit its needs (quantity, condition, price, etc).
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: FT:Airbus A350 Delay Could Affect US Airways

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 44):

Unfortunately for US, it's not returning planes voluntarilty at this point. It obtained lease rates during its second bankruptcy that are lower than current market rates. As such, lessors are choosing to take back the planes at lease expiration or exercise early termination options on the leases (if they exist) where US isn't ponying up the extra cash, which is why 3 757s will be leaving the fleet this winter.

Very interesting situation.....aircraft leasing is a very complex transaction, and US is now being "penalized" for making very good deals when they were renegotiating leases during their bankruptcy. Things have changed in the past few years.....now that US can really but the 757s to very good use, they have no choice but give the airplanes up.

Thanks for raising this point, I wonder if other US legacy carriers that have renegotiated aircraft leases during their visits to the bankruptcy court will face the same situation?

Quoting A330323X (Reply 44):

They just don't exist is the problem. US has been searching for 763ERs to lease for about 4 years now, and hasn't been able to find any that fit its needs (quantity, condition, price, etc).

True. 763ERs are in short supply......its an odd situation, many airlines want additional 763ERs, but neither the airlines or the leasing companies are willing to order more 767s since the 787 is just around the corner.

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My opinion is that US will not take delivery of the A350XWB......the delay will be an issue but the more important concern is that the A350 has been supersized and has become an airplane that is too big for US's needs. I always believed that US ordered the A350s with Asia in mind; at some point US/HP will look to connect the PHX/LAS hubs with Asian cities using the LAS and PHX hubs as alternatives to the traditional West coast gateways, and PHL-NRT seems a natural in the medium-term future......and the A350s would indirectly replace the 762ERs (routes/allocations shuffled), but more and more it seems that US will re-consider its options.

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