gabypn1992
Posts: 69
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Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:19 am

Do you know when Air Canada gonna get there new 777. I'm waiting for this moment. And do you know if they gonna have a new livery???

Thanks
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sanjet
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:25 am

Late winter and spring of 2007 for the first 777's to arrive. Pilots are starting the ground school already.
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Gabypn1992 (Thread starter):
And do you know if they gonna have a new livery???

They will have the new AC livery, that is being added to aircraft at the moment.....


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Lee
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beech19
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Sanjet (Reply 1):
Late winter and spring of 2007 for the first 777's to arrive. Pilots are starting the ground school already.

I beleive the Boeing fireing order shows the 772LR's coming down the chute before their 300ER's. Janurary 07 i beleive.

Emirates 772LR's they converted from 773ER's will be in that same time frame too.
KPAE via KBVY
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 3):
I beleive the Boeing fireing order shows the 772LR's coming down the chute before their 300ER's. Janurary 07 i beleive

News to me. Last I heard was that the B773 were to be delivered late-March to early-April 2007, with the LRs coming in August.

From AirCanada.com
Delivery of the 777 aircraft is scheduled to commence in March 2007. and Air Canada will take delivery of the leased aircraft in May 2007

Also from Air Canada, the press release states:
Delivery of the first six 777 aircraft is scheduled commencing in March through to July 2007. Air Canada's first 787 is scheduled for delivery in 2010.

A.net user Sebring might be able to provide greater insight.

-YVRtoYYZ
 
beech19
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 4):
A.net user Sebring might be able to provide greater insight.

I was hoping that 777MechSys would chime in... he has access to that information.

I could be mistaken but i thought the LR's were coming early for some reason.
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visityyj
Posts: 380
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:52 am

C-FITL B777-333ER MAR 07
C-FITU B777-333ER APL 07
C-FITW B777-3Q8ER MAY 07
C-FIUA B777-233LR JUNE 07
C-FIUL B777-333ER JUNE 07
C-FIUF B777-233LR JULY 07
C-FIUR B777-333ER JULY 07
C-FIUJ B777-233LR NOV 07

1 X 233LR IN JAN 08
2 X 233LR IN FEB 08
1 X 333ER IN MARCH 08

6 X 233LR DATES UNKNOWN

2 X 777F IN JAN AND MAR OF 09
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Visityyj (Reply 6):
C-FITL B777-333ER MAR 07
C-FITU B777-333ER APL 07
C-FITW B777-3Q8ER MAY 07
C-FIUA B777-233LR JUNE 07
C-FIUL B777-333ER JUNE 07
C-FIUF B777-233LR JULY 07
C-FIUR B777-333ER JULY 07
C-FIUJ B777-233LR NOV 07

1 X 233LR IN JAN 08
2 X 233LR IN FEB 08
1 X 333ER IN MARCH 08

6 X 233LR DATES UNKNOWN

2 X 777F IN JAN AND MAR OF 09

I have put this info in other threads, but here goes again

On Oct 16, Air Canada released its preliminary IPO prospectus to potential investors.

It is a meticulous 268-page document and has to be considered the definitive word on many issues, including fleet. At least as things stood on Oct 16.

with respect to the 777s, the current plan is as you have outlaid for 2007:

5 773ER, 3 772LR

For 2008, however, the IPO calls for 6 773ER and 3 772LR in 2008

For 2009, you have the two freighters.

So, as things stand, AC is getting 11 773ERs and 6 777-200LRs.

It is also keeping the two A340-500s, which is a departure from previous iterations of the fleet plan.
 
gabypn1992
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:29 am

Next summer, I'm gonna do YUL-YYZ-NRT or YUL-YVR-NRT with AC and TG for NRT-BKK. Do you think I'm gonna have the chance to take a new 777 of AC or I'm gonna take a old 343 or 345?
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777MechSys
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 5):
I was hoping that 777MechSys would chime in... he has access to that information.

Sorry busy busy busy. We are working 20% overtime.




Ummm Air Canada 777 200LR. I think the first one should roll out of the factory around May 2007.

I think Emirates will see theirs in.... crap I can't remember.

I'll be back with more info. My brain is fried.
 
JAL
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:06 am

Looking forward to seeing the 777 in Air Canada's livery!
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American777
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 10):
Looking forward to seeing the 777 in Air Canada's livery!

Here is a taste of how their new 777's will look like in the new livery:


Modified Airliner Photos:
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Design © Nicolas Belanger
Template © Peter ten Thije




Modified Airliner Photos:
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Design © Carl
Template © Carl



JOE.  airplane 
 
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Vio
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:44 pm

I'm still confused. What will these 777 replace? The A340-300 and A330s?
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
gabypn1992
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:39 pm

Quoting Vio (Reply 12):
I'm still confused. What will these 777 replace? The A340-300 and A330s?

I found something on Wikipedia that can interest you!!!

This is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada#Orders
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irobertson
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:01 pm

What a waste of money those A330 and 340s must be. I love them and all, but especially the 340-500s, they've only been a part of the fleet for two years now, just to get replaced here shortly with Boeings. Why didn't Air Canada just order 777s to begin with then?
 
krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
For 2008, however, the IPO calls for 6 773ER and 3 772LR in 2008

For 2009, you have the two freighters.

So, as things stand, AC is getting 11 773ERs and 6 777-200LRs.

That's a pretty big change since the B773ERs were originally meant to replace the B744Ms. On Boeing's site, AC orders still show up as 5 B773ERs + 1 ILFC and 11 B772LR.

Does AC really need 11 -300ERs?
maybe you mixed up the variants by mistake?

KrisYYZ
 
gabypn1992
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:47 pm

I think they gonna have new destination with there new 777 and 787. Like Africa or something like that. I hope that we gonna see a 773ERs at YUL.
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kaitak
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:54 pm

Exciting times ahead for AC!

Is there any indication yet of the configuration of the -300ER and -200LR?
 
squared
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 15):
Does AC really need 11 -300ERs?
maybe you mixed up the variants by mistake?

I have also taken a look at the AC prospectus for its upcoming IPO, and Sebring is right. The only question is whether the prospectus is wrong (which is unlikely).

SQuared
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 14):
What a waste of money those A330 and 340s must be. I love them and all, but especially the 340-500s, they've only been a part of the fleet for two years now, just to get replaced here shortly with Boeings.

Might I direct you to this quote from a respect a.net user and AC insider:

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
It is also keeping the two A340-500s, which is a departure from previous iterations of the fleet plan.

-YVRtoYYZ
 
jfk777
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:21 pm

Kris YYZ,

Air Canada needs all the 773ER it can get. From Toronto alone they fly to very distant cities on 3 continents. Frequency to LHR is 4 or 5 daily, then you have the rest of Europe,ezpecialy the FRA hub served from many Canadian cities. To South America there is daily servcie to GRU and EZE or SCL. Fro YYZ, not YVR, AC flies nonstop to HKG, NRT, Shanghai and Peking. Then you have all the Pacific cities from Vancouver, all the Montreal European flights and service to LHR(daily) from each main candian cities from Vancouver to St. Johns, including Ottawa. So AC needs all the 777 it ahs ordered.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:35 pm

It seems so strange to me that they only ordered 2 A345s, and just for one route, and then they replace them with 772LRs on the route. If they are keeping them, to what destinations will they go? It also seems strange to me that they are using 773ERs to replace A333s which has much less range and capacity.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
chrisa330
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 21):
It also seems strange to me that they are using 773ERs to replace A333s which has much less range and capacity.

The 777s aren't being used to replace the A333s. According to the fleet plan these are staying for the timebeing. The 777s are being used to supplement capacity lost with the retirement of the B744s as well as to replace the A343s. The A345s are also staying for the moment according to the most recent fleet plan.
 
gabypn1992
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:49 pm

But what they gonna do with there two 345???


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[Edited 2006-10-28 16:55:33]
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gmonney
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:55 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 21):
It seems so strange to me that they only ordered 2 A345s, and just for one route

If my memory serves me right, the A345's were waiting for AC to take them but for financial reasons, AC had to wait remember the pictures?..


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Photo © French Frogs AirSlides



So from that point, AC couldn't order more and I don't think A would produce anymore for them. Now after AC has experienced the poor perfomance of the aircraft and they are making some money... they are going to go with the Boeing product to satisfy their needs...

Hope that helps,

G
Drive it like you stole it!
 
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AA777223
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting ChrisA330 (Reply 22):
The 777s aren't being used to replace the A333s. According to the fleet plan these are staying for the timebeing. The 777s are being used to supplement capacity lost with the retirement of the B744s as well as to replace the A343s. The A345s are also staying for the moment according to the most recent fleet plan.

That's not what this says!

Quoting Gabypn1992 (Reply 13):
Quoting Vio (Reply 12):
I'm still confused. What will these 777 replace? The A340-300 and A330s?

I found something on Wikipedia that can interest you!!!

This is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Can...rders

This says they will use 773ERs and 788s to replace the A333s.

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 24):

Thanks for the picture! I did not know the story of AC and the A345. How many did they originally have on order? When they decided to go with Boeing widebodies, did they just cancel the remaining orderrs, or convert them to narrowbody orders?
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting SQuared (Reply 18):
I have also taken a look at the AC prospectus for its upcoming IPO, and Sebring is right. The only question is whether the prospectus is wrong.

I doubt it's wrong. It's a legal filing, and that means the lawyers combed this thing over several times.

It makes perfect sense when combined with the decision to retain the A340-500s. With those two planes, the airline needs fewer 772LRs. Also, the industry seems to be making a statement about ultra long range planes like the A345 and 772LR. They are not selling like hot cakes. It's hard to find routes that can support 300 passenger loads over 18 hours of flying. It is my guess that carriers most likely to be interested in that kind of flying are not flocking to the 345 and 772LR because they can't justify the expenditure and haven't seen any premium or competitive advantage in these 18 hours of flight. Travellers don't seem to penalize other carriers for including a stop or connection on flights of that duration/distance. In fact, a lot of travellers seem to prefer a break of some kind. With the 787-8 coming, airlines might be inclined to wait for a 200-seater with better operating economics before getting into more of this ultra long-range flying.

That makes these planes problematic from a resale valuation perspective as AC has found with the 345s. On the other hand, the 773ER is a hot seller that will retain its value much better. With the small range improvements that have been achieved, it is now suitable for the vast majority of actual or likely AC missions.

AC will likely still flip the 345s if it gets a good price, but it may well hang on to them until 2012 (when it sells its A330-300s) and just add more 787s.

[Edited 2006-10-28 17:15:45]
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 24):
hat point, AC couldn't order more and I don't think A would produce anymore for them. Now after AC has experienced the poor perfomance of the aircraft and they are making some money... they are going to go with the Boeing product to satisfy their needs...

This is a gross oversimplification. ACE decided the most cost effective widebody fleet of the future would be one from a single manufacturer offering comparable capabilities in terms of scheduling, maintenance etc. Right now, AC's 767-300s can handle anything out to 12 hours, the A330-300s a bit less, the A340-300s a bit more, like 14 hours, and the 345-500s up to 16. If a 343 goes mechanical and there isn't one around, AC can't substitute with a 767 or 330 in many situations. AC wants a fleet with more common capability. Airbus could offer more A340-500s and the A343-600HGW, but the A350 project continues to be difficult to pin down. The 350 is basically a paper airplane and Airbus can't say when the first will be in service. Frankly, none of AC's Airbus fleet is that old, it could have kept them in the fleet indefinitely if Airbus could offer, with certainty, a good 763 replacement. The 787 will be ready for AC just when it requires it to replace some of its oldest 763s. The 350 might not be available until the middle of the next decade, or five years after AC needs them.

The new Boeing planes will be the best cost performing large widebodies AC has ever flown. And Boeing drove a great deal because it really wanted to show the world it could take a prestige customer away from Airbus. AC is an important player not for its size, but because it is a technically savvy carrier with no pre-conceived bias for Airbus or Boeing and which is under no orders from their government to buy from one or the other. Boeing lost AC orders to Airbus in the past because Airbus was more flexible and willing to cut AC big discounts while Boeing had a take-it-or-leave it attitude. This time, Boeing came in as the flexible and accommodating manufacturer.

AC will also tell you that the Airbus fleet works pretty well. AC really likes the 330-300, has come to rely on the 343s and has even made the two 345s into decent performers.

In the end, this order was hardly at all about the Airbus planes AC now flies and everything to do with building the kind of simplified fleet AC wants to operate. Boeing could satisfy the need and was ready to offer big discounts this time. Airbus was also ready to discount heavily, but didn't have the future aircraft AC was looking for.
 
jamincan
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting Irobertson (Reply 14):
What a waste of money those A330 and 340s must be. I love them and all, but especially the 340-500s, they've only been a part of the fleet for two years now, just to get replaced here shortly with Boeings. Why didn't Air Canada just order 777s to begin with then?

When Air Canada first ordered the A340, the 777 wasn't really a competitive offering. From what I've read elsewhere, at the time it was mainly a choice between the MD-11 and the A330/A340.

Anyway, from the sounds of it, at least for the next ten years or so, AC will have quite a diverse fleet. For the widebody fleet we'll see the 772LR, 773ER, A333, A343, A345, 762, 762ER, 763ER, and 788. For the narrowbody fleet: A321, A320, A319, E190, and E175. For Jazz: CRJ100ER, CRJ200ER, CRJ705, Dash 8-100, Dash 8-200, Dash 8-300. Wow.
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting Jamincan (Reply 28):

Anyway, from the sounds of it, at least for the next ten years or so, AC will have quite a diverse fleet. For the widebody fleet we'll see the 772LR, 773ER, A333, A343, A345, 762, 762ER, 763ER, and 788. For the narrowbody fleet: A321, A320, A319, E190, and E175. For Jazz: CRJ100ER, CRJ200ER, CRJ705, Dash 8-100, Dash 8-200, Dash 8-300. Wow.

As of the end of 2007, all 343s will be gone. By the end of the decade, all but two of the 762s will be gone, and I suspect those will become domestic freighters. By 2012, the 333s and 345s will likely go in favor of 789s. So the widebody passenger fleet will have five types by 2012: 772LR, 773ER, 763ER, 787-8, 787-9. The 777s and 787s will share a large degree of commonality.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 20):
Air Canada needs all the 773ER it can get. From Toronto alone they fly to very distant cities on 3 continents.

From what I have read on this site, AC's B773ER will have just over 300 seats and the 2LRs will have about the same has the current A343s. If AC more than triples the number of 773ER orders, it would indicate that capacity on most of its long-haul routes will significantly increase. When AC placed its original order the 3- 773ERs were suppose to replace the retired B744 on the LHR and FRA routing.

I don't know how much of a problem it is for Boeing to switch 2LR orders to 3ER frames, but initial production on the first AC B777 should begin relatively soon.

The 2 A345s are owned by AC, not many of their planes are. I think the A333 are on capital leases and like Sebring said they will hang around until some 787 arrive. It looks like AC will have a mixed Boeing/Airbus long haul fleet for a little bit longer than AC made it initially seem.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 29):
As of the end of 2007, all 343s will be gone

I thought the -313 and -312 will be the last to go around 2010? Is AC still sending RG some B762?

KrisYYZ
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 31):
I thought the -313 and -312 will be the last to go around 2010? Is AC still sending RG some B762?

Nope, and I don't know the latest on RG
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 25):



Quoting AA777223 (Reply 25):

This is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Can...rders

This says they will use 773ERs and 788s to replace the A333s.

You are aware that any Tom, Dick or Harry with internet access can edit wikipedia entries? It's not a reliable source of information at all. The information in the AC IPO documents legally have to be as factual as possible.
 
CYQL
Posts: 80
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
On Oct 16, Air Canada released its preliminary IPO prospectus to potential investors.

It is a meticulous 268-page document and has to be considered the definitive word on many issues, including fleet. At least as things stood on Oct 16.

with respect to the 777s, the current plan is as you have outlaid for 2007:

Is the IPO available online, I searched the Air Canada website and couldn't find it.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
It is also keeping the two A340-500s, which is a departure from previous iterations of the fleet plan.

Does Air Canada still have the three A340-600s on the books or have they officially cancelled them.
 
squared
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 1:48 am

RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting CYQL (Reply 34):

Is the IPO available online, I searched the Air Canada website and couldn't find it.

Yes. You can check on sedar: http://www.sedar.com/

SQuared
 
beechnut
Posts: 549
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 7):
It is also keeping the two A340-500s, which is a departure from previous iterations of the fleet plan.

Interesting given that AC has more or less implied it does not want to have any more 4-engined microfleets. Two ships is almost about as "microfleet" as you can get.

I guess as you say they've managed to wring out some decent performance from them. And they got them at firesale prices. I suppose they'll still have commonality to a large extent with the A330s (engines/airframes) so they can piggyback onto that fleet until AC finally gets ride of the 330s which as I understand will be the last Airbus widebodies to depart.

Beech.
 
gmonney
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:10 pm

Sebring,

I was refering to when AC was going into Chapter 11. Do you actually thing a manufacture would fulfill an order and have the planes sit on the ground. I don't think you understand where i was going with my point. I was saying AC was not in a market to purchase new aircrafts. I agree now, Boeing seems to fit better with the overall direction of the airline. I am very sure that AC is not happy with the performance of the 345 which is a reason for them to look else where. I can't see Boeing just giving them away... I am sure they paid good money to get them... I am pretty sure that AC doesn't want the product. I can't remember how many times but my buddy who works at YYZ's MX hanger told me the 345 was in for some repairs. He actually would come in to work (he worked with me in the golf industry) once a week and tell me about the problems. Probably another reason it only runs the YYZ-HKG run. It has about 12+ hours to visit the "rock" and get checked over each day.

As for the 16hour flights... YYZ-DEL is perfect for an aircraft like the 772LR. Having to travel for 24 hours including a connection is not fun to go home for some people. I have friends who travel back and forth once a year and loved the direct flight... although there was usually a tech stop on the 343, there was no significant stop.

Another question I have is what is does AC need a -200 series 777? More closely does it need that capacity for anything... does the -300 have too many seats? Where i am going is, AC doesn't need to fly the LR 16 hours each time it goes into the air, it just has that range. If a international route, like i believe YYZ-MAN might get a 762, doesn't need the 773 capacity then they could use the 772 there? I think having an aircraft with that type of versitility is always needed in a fleet. What about YVR-SYD?

G
Drive it like you stole it!
 
sebring
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:08 am

RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Gmonney (Reply 37):

I was refering to when AC was going into Chapter 11. Do you actually thing a manufacture would fulfill an order and have the planes sit on the ground. I don't think you understand where i was going with my point. I was saying AC was not in a market to purchase new aircrafts. I agree now, Boeing seems to fit better with the overall direction of the airline. I am very sure that AC is not happy with the performance of the 345 which is a reason for them to look else where. I can't see Boeing just giving them away... I am sure they paid good money to get them... I am pretty sure that AC doesn't want the product. I can't remember how many times but my buddy who works at YYZ's MX hanger told me the 345 was in for some repairs. He actually would come in to work (he worked with me in the golf industry) once a week and tell me about the problems. Probably another reason it only runs the YYZ-HKG run. It has about 12+ hours to visit the "rock" and get checked over each day.

All new aircraft have an evolutionary character. The E-175s were maintenance queens at first. Then it was the E-190s. Gradually the record improves as the planes are debugged and resourceful mechanics learn how to massage them just right. That is also true of the A-345 which, when I last looked, had moved up the ranks for maintenance OTP. It's not the best plane in the fleet in terms of reliability, but it isn't the worst and its availability percentages could be called good (thought not great). I'm sure that the 777s and 787s will present their own teething issues in the AC fleet, so claiming the 345 is still a dog is, in my opinion, no longer applicable. I think the view that these two planes will exit at the same time as the 330s is probably correct, unless Airbus' problems create greater demand for used aircraft and a market opens up for the 345s at a reasonable price.
 
gmonney
Posts: 2076
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:23 am

I think if AC wasn't in financial trouble when the 345 and 346 orders went in and were produced, they would have those aircrafts today? no?

G
Drive it like you stole it!
 
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longhauler
Posts: 4941
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:00 am

RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 29):
As of the end of 2007, all 343s will be gone.

That has now changed as well. The latest fleet plan I viewed, (last week) show only 5 A340-300 leaving the fleet in 2007. The remainder left until 2011, (which means they haven't yet decided, could be any time after 2007).

The decision to keep the A340-500s was mainly due to the fact they can't get rid of them. Initially they were to go to the desert for storage, now it appears they will keep them flying until they can find a new home for them!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 40):
That has now changed as well. The latest fleet plan I viewed, (last week) show only 5 A340-300 leaving the fleet in 2007. The remainder left until 2011, (which means they haven't yet decided, could be any time after 2007).

That would depend on when your fleet plan was drawn up. The prospectus says all are gone by the end of 2008. I stand corrected. But not 2011.

In any case, AC will get all 17 passenger 777s in 2007-08, and keeps the 345s for a total of 19 large widebodies at the end of 2008 vs 12 today. If the last few 343s are not yet sub-leased, they could be kept to accommodate growth.

By count, AC has additional commitments for four aircraft - daily YYZ-SYD-LAX and daily YVR-Guangzhou. Were they to do YYZ-DEL and/or YYZ-BOM, daily, they would need 2-4 aircraft to bridge them until the 787s come in 2010 or later. Since the 777s and 345s represent seven more large widebody fins than AC flies, were AC to desire to do all of the above new routes, they need at least one more aircraft.
 
The777Man
Posts: 5912
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 4:54 am

RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:53 am

Any confirmation of what specific routes AC will use their first 777s for ? Possibly domestic routes first for crew training ?

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Sebring (Reply 41):
I stand corrected. But not 2011.

I agree, the impression I am getting is that when they state 2011, (the end of the fleet plan) they really mean, "just not 2007", and subject to further review.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
BOE773
Posts: 413
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:21 am

Vancouver to Mumbai should be a moneymaker with the large Indian population on the west coast.
 
klyk1980
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:35 pm

I would say..it is the A340-500 to help Air Canada to gain back the market share from Cathay Pacific on YYZ-HKG route. Yes...service still behind CX, but non-stop save 3 hours when you compare with direct service via ANC, thats a big difference.

AC 340-500 really works like dog and real hero on AC's Asian fight back.
 
sebring
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting BOE773 (Reply 44):
Vancouver to Mumbai should be a moneymaker with the large Indian population on the west coast.

Toronto-Mumbai and Vancouver-Delhi will come before Vancouver-Mumbai. The Sikh population in British Columbia is likely more interested in a flight to Delhi or even Amritsar.
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
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RE: Air Canada 777?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Gabypn1992 (Reply 8):
Next summer, I'm gonna do YUL-YYZ-NRT or YUL-YVR-NRT with AC and TG for NRT-BKK. Do you think I'm gonna have the chance to take a new 777 of AC or I'm gonna take a old 343 or 345?

AC sales office in Japan confirmed both YYZ-NRT and YVR-NRT will get 777-300ER service starting 2007 Summer Schedule. Daily capacity will up to 700, 25% increase.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
airbusfanyyz
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 1:01 am

RE: Air Canada 777?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 45):
I would say..it is the A340-500 to help Air Canada to gain back the market share from Cathay Pacific on YYZ-HKG route. Yes...service still behind CX, but non-stop save 3 hours when you compare with direct service via ANC, thats a big difference.

...Until CX deploys the B773ER on HKG-YYZ... sometime late 2007.
IIRC that's when they start receiving their B773ERs.

However, AC's new inflight product which is a substantial improvement will be fitted to their B777s. Should be quite a battle on that route.
I wonder if anyone will try and compete with AC on YYZ-NRT?

Cheers,
Kaz
 
jimyvr
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 pm

RE: Air Canada 777?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 48):
I wonder if anyone will try and compete with AC on YYZ-NRT?

ANA would rather continue codesharing with AC and chances for JAL hopping in is unlikely for at least another 2-3 years may be.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/