fraspotter
Posts: 1971
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9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:11 am

I was just wondering today if during the excavation of Ground zero, if they ever found parts of the UA or AA planes that were flown into the buildings? Or did it just get lost in all the piles of rubble?
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Thread starter):
I was just wondering today if during the excavation of Ground zero, if they ever found parts of the UA or AA planes that were flown into the buildings? Or did it just get lost in all the piles of rubble?

Not sure about during the actual excavation, but there are photos of at least one engine core from one of the aircraft that hit the WTC - it flew right out hte other side of the building and landed a fair distance away.
 
fraspotter
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:21 am

I was just thinking that wih the intense heat up there from the fire burning, that there would be much left to find...
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
jamesbuk
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:29 am

You mean the rockets, right  Wink J/k

I very much doubt it, considering the heat and pressure from the collapse.

Rgds --James--
You cant have your cake and eat it... What the hells the point in having it then!!!
 
ual757
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:57 am

They found 2 windows from, I think, AA flight 11.  Sad
 
ikramerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:01 am

There were many parts found.

Despite the impact, the way physics works is that while you will get melted and pulverized parts, you will also get nearly intact ejected parts. The force of the explosions will blow pieces apart before all of them are consumed by the heat of the fires.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
TAP1972
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:02 am

What about the plane that hit the Pentagon and the one that crashed in Pensylvannia. Did they find parts of those planes?
 
phxplanes
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:12 am

I have the feeling we might be getting some conspiracy theories coming up.
 
F9Animal
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:14 am

Did they ever identify any bodies from aircraft hitting the WTC? Kind of a gore question, but one that I always wondered about.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
bringiton
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:18 am

There are a truck load of pics from the Pentagon crash site -






http://69.57.144.30/ats/pentagon757/757-americanlogo.jpg



There are many many more you'd just have to look for them
 
fraspotter
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:20 am

Those are some pretty amazing pics...
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
bringiton
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:23 am

Well very sad considering that that airliner was responsible for the life of a very near and dear friend !!
 
F9Animal
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:35 am

Those pictures are obviously conspiracy pictures. The wreckage clearly looks like a tomahawk missle, and the parts are from a boneyard in Marana Arizona, from an AA Boeing 707.  Yeah sure
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
There were many parts found.

Two blocks away from the World Trade Center:


Quoting TAP1972 (Reply 6):
What about the plane that hit the Pentagon and the one that crashed in Pensylvannia. Did they find parts of those planes?

Pentagon lawn on 9/11:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/hullpiece.jpg

Flight Data Recorder from United 93 (Pennsylvania):


Quoting Phxplanes (Reply 7):
I have the feeling we might be getting some conspiracy theories coming up.

I would like to think that anyone with enough aviation interest to join A.Net would be able to debunk 9-11 conspiracies with ease.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 8):
Did they ever identify any bodies from aircraft hitting the WTC?

Yes: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-11-sept11-remains_x.htm

Quote:
In New York City, medical examiners used DNA profiles furnished by the FBI to match body parts with three of the 10 hijackers who crashed there.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
ikramerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting TAP1972 (Reply 6):
What about the plane that hit the Pentagon and the one that crashed in Pensylvannia. Did they find parts of those planes?

Yes. See above. Do a web search. It's all out there.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 13):
Two blocks away from the World Trade Center:

Thus my comment about the parts being ejected by the explosion.

Anyone who's ever dropped a glass on a tile floor knows that you can find huge chunks in the other room even though most of the pieces remain in a small area.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Elite
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:33 pm

There are a lot of photos from the Pentagon attack, mainly due to the height of the aircraft when it impacted and the damage that it caused. I don't know how people still stick with conspiracy theories after so much evidence is given.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:17 pm

I wish I could remember the name of the book. It came out for the anniversary this year. But it was done by the only photographer who had access to ground zero for the entire clean-up project. He did go to the Fishkills Landfill and I saw a photo with lots of parts identified from the planes. A surprising anount survived. However, as most of the photos in this thread show the most recognizable parts where generally from the landing gear. I remember an interview with some official who was asked this question and he said the same thing. He said the landing gear typically survives airlines crashes relativily intact, in general because they then to be the largest single hunks of metal on the airplane. They are pretty hand to destroy completely.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
B707Stu
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
Not sure about during the actual excavation, but there are photos of at least one engine core from one of the aircraft that hit the WTC - it flew right out hte other side of the building and landed a fair distance away.

The starboard engine of UA175 flew out of the building and landed about 3 blocks from me. That's the moment I went into shock. I'll let you know when I snap out of it.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:09 am

If you look closely at one of the videos of the one of the planes impacting the trade center you can see either the landing gear or an engine core being ejected out of the oppisite side of the building that the plane struck. I think it landed on the roof of another building
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
fraspotter
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 18):
If you look closely at one of the videos of the one of the planes impacting the trade center you can see either the landing gear or an engine core being ejected out of the oppisite side of the building that the plane struck. I think it landed on the roof of another building

I believe this is what RichardPrice was talking about in reply 1?
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:44 am

FMEA studied the effects of the aircraft impacting the WTC towers in great detail. There is a discussion here: World Trade Center Building Performance Study, Chapter 2 On page 16:

Quote:
It is known that some debris from the aircraft traveled completely through the structure. For example, life jackets and portions of seats from the aircraft were found on the roof of the Bankers Trust building located to the south of WTC2. Part of the landing gear from this aircraft was found at the corner of West and Rector Streets, some five blocks south of the WTC complex

Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
legoguy
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:34 am

If they did find ieces from the aircraft... could the pieces have been given to the relatives as sort of pieces to remember their loved ones by or would the investigator's keep the pieces?

Also I remember they found the exact piece of metal beam from one of the WTC's where the aircraft hit it.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
Adria
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 9):
There are a truck load of pics from the Pentagon crash site -

The only thing I was wondering why didn't the media and the world get to see a video of this accident. I mean there are 100s of private videos that were taken in New York and the Pentagon for sure has a lot of video cameras around the building or anywhere else...they could get rid of any conspiracy theory very fast...so why no video?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 22):
The only thing I was wondering why didn't the media and the world get to see a video of this accident. I mean there are 100s of private videos that were taken in New York and the Pentagon for sure has a lot of video cameras around the building or anywhere else...they could get rid of any conspiracy theory very fast...so why no video?

The masses of video about the WTC is of the second strike, theres only one video of the first strike that I know of and that was by a 'fortunate' camera crew in the area at the time.

The pentagon happenedd very fast, the only video that captured it was a CCTV system, and it didnt get it all, most camers were pointing outward over the perimeter or the entrances, not the area that got hit.

No conspiracy theories there at all.
 
Adria
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
The masses of video about the WTC is of the second strike, theres only one video of the first strike that I know of and that was by a 'fortunate' camera crew in the area at the time.

The pentagon happenedd very fast, the only video that captured it was a CCTV system, and it didnt get it all, most camers were pointing outward over the perimeter or the entrances, not the area that got hit.

No conspiracy theories there at all.

No conspiracy...I'm only saying that there have to be a lot of video cameras in all directions in and around pentagon and there are no videos...no matter how fast it happened
 
Jawed
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:33 am

Oh, of course not. I mean, why would the government ever lie to us? It's not like they've ever done anything bad.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
No conspiracy theories there at all.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 24):
No conspiracy...I'm only saying that there have to be a lot of video cameras in all directions in and around pentagon and there are no videos...no matter how fast it happened

Perhaps you haven't seen the video RichardPrice mentioned. It's the real deal, and it causes problems exactly because people somehow expect something better than this. See: Flight 77 Hits Pentagon
You can see it happen, and yet it's so fast you can't see anything at all.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Jawed (Reply 25):
I mean, why would the government ever lie to us?

It's not a question of the government lying...it's a question of whether the people who were there are lying. You'd have to believe everybody is in on the conspiracy.

Let's please keep the discussion to the aircraft involved on 9/11 and not delve into politics.  airplane 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
Adria
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 26):
Perhaps you haven't seen the video RichardPrice mentioned. It's the real deal, and it causes problems exactly because people somehow expect something better than this. See: Flight 77 Hits Pentagon
You can see it happen, and yet it's so fast you can't see anything at all.

That's my point...you cannot see anything, but you can see clearly those aircraft that crashed in New York...but this remains to be a mystery...
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 28):
That's my point...you cannot see anything, but you can see clearly those aircraft that crashed in New York...but this remains to be a mystery...

There is a huge difference in resolution and frame rate between a security camera (Pentagon) and the TV's cameras that filmed the WTC crashes. Please also note that the WTC aircraft were at some altitude which allowed cameramen to see them sooner and train their cameras to capture the shot. American 77 came in at extraordinarily low altitude and extremely fast - there simply wasn't anyone in a position to catch this on video. It happened too fast. As RichardPrice pointed out above, all but one of the WTC videos are of the second impact, captured by chance due to the many cameras aimed at the towers after the first impact.

There is a phenomenon called "the CSI effect" here in America. You can read about it on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect
The gist of it is that many people having seen TV shows and the like have an elevated expectation of real-world observations. If effect, they find it hard to accept any evidence unless it is as clear and unequivocal as what they see on TV. In actual fact, if events like the Pentagon attack were clearly documented with multiple angles of video...we might find that very suspicious. How would the cameramen have known to be there to capture such video?
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:26 am

Ok, call me naive, but what exactly is this conspiracy theory? One or two sentences will do.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 30):
Ok, call me naive, but what exactly is this conspiracy theory? One or two sentences will do.

That Bush did it.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 31):
That Bush did it.

Your kidding right? Thats a sick thought. I do not like Bush, but if you believe (not you TeamAmerica) that Bush was behide 911 you need help.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1971
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
FMEA studied the effects of the aircraft impacting the WTC towers in great detail. There is a discussion here: World Trade Center Building Performance Study, Chapter 2 On page 16:

OMG! I was looking at page 18 from the link above and actually saw a person standing in the opening where one of the jets hit the towers... The person is wearing white pants... Quite a chilling shot knowing that this person probably died a few minutes later...  Sad
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
OPNLguy
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Sun Oct 29, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 33):
OMG! I was looking at page 18 from the link above and actually saw a person standing in the opening where one of the jets hit the towers... The person is wearing white pants... Quite a chilling shot knowing that this person probably died a few minutes later...

It took me about 5 minutes of looking, but you're right--it looks like a woman, white pants, blue top, and red hair, right about the middle of the bottom row of damage.

A powerful picture...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
bringiton
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:30 am

For all those people that fall prey to Consp. theories and such websites I recomend the following book -

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/

For those that dont want to pay for the book but want to get some idea of some of the things at the pentagon crash site here is one explaination -

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/...1_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

For others who want to believe still -

Its up to them !!
 
TAP1972
Posts: 385
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:57 am

Some of you interpreted my question as a "conspiracy theory", that wasn't my purpose.

the reason of my question is because every 11th of September after 2001, we see on the media (TV, newspapers, magazines, etc.) images, pictures of the towers and nothing of the Pentagon or even from the plane that crashed in Pensylvannia.

Thanks Bringiton and TeamAmerica for your photos. It's first time I see those.
 
B707Stu
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:14 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 18):
If you look closely at one of the videos of the one of the planes impacting the trade center you can see either the landing gear or an engine core being ejected out of the oppisite side of the building that the plane struck. I think it landed on the roof of another building

Starboard engine landed next to the Post Office, about 5 blocks from where UA175 impacted the South Tower (#2 World Trade Center). And the nose near also flew out landing on the street.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
It is known that some debris from the aircraft traveled completely through the structure. For example, life jackets and portions of seats from the aircraft were found on the roof of the Bankers Trust building located to the south of WTC2. Part of the landing gear from this aircraft was found at the corner of West and Rector Streets, some five blocks south of the WTC complex

Some of the debris that was found was moved during the collapse. The South Tower collapsed to the South. That's why the Banker's Trust/Deutsch Bank building is ultimately coming down. The top 30 floors ripped down its side, including leaving human remains on the roof, which until today, are still being found.
 
LMP737
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RE: 9/11 Question...

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:22 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 35):
For all those people that fall prey to Consp. theories and such websites I recomend the following book -

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/911myths/

For those that dont want to pay for the book but want to get some idea of some of the things at the pentagon crash site here is one explaination -

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/...1_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

For others who want to believe still -

Its up to them !!

The conspiracy theorists really don't want to know the truth. All they want is validation of the "truth" as they see it. Proof of this is that when Popular Mechanics came out with the story on 9-11 myths the tin foil hat crowd attacked it.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.