LordHowe
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Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:46 pm

Todays Hufvudstadbladet - the biggest swedish language newspaper in Finland - tells that Finnair's next destination in India will be Mumbai. No details are mentioned. The article just tells about the opening of New Delhi route tomorrow and then says that "the number of weekly flights will later grow to five and another destination Mumbai will be opened." NO source for this information is mentioned.

Regards,
LordHowe
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Virginia
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:07 pm

LordHowe,

According to www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl they are also adding more flights to NRT. Very interesting maybe that new route towards India will be HYD.

We will see, will try to see if my source is willing to give some info.

Virginia
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:11 pm

Another european carrier at BOM would great especially now that BD has cancelled services.
 
LordHowe
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Virginia (Reply 1):
they are also adding more flights to NRT

Yes, Finnair has for 25 years been trying to get more slots to NRT, but now they finally got two weekly more. Starting in December 2006 they will fly HEL-NRT-HEL four times weekly with 340-300.

Regards,
LordHowe
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Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 2):
Another european carrier at BOM would great especially now that BD has cancelled services.

But competition on BOM is also FIERCE! AFAIK we have 9W (2x), AI, BA (2x), VS, KL/NW, AF, LH, LX, OS and AZ all flying between BOM and Europe. Even with BD's withdrawal, fares to BOM are still ridiculous. Okay, the closest service to HEL-BOM would be via FRA/AMS, but still.. Good luck to AY if they open on BOM, but it's gonna be a b*tch making a rupee on it!

Kevin777
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ehho
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
the closest service to HEL-BOM would be via FRA/AMS,

I'm sure they won't be doing it for O&D traffic, but you're totally right, it must be a bitch of a market in terms of profit margins. I flew AMS-ZRH-BOM RT this summer with LX and it cost me EUR 490 incl. Try beating that AY!
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HB-IWC
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:13 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
But competition on BOM is also FIERCE!

Other destinations in India are not much better, ever since the GoI decided to pursue a much more liberal course when it comes to giving out the rights. Secondary destinations like Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and even Kolkata are all seeing multiple carriers to Europe. At the end of the day, Mumbai remains the economical capital of India. It is a logical next step for AY, although I would have expected them to consider additional destinations in China first - something which may still be happening.
 
Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:30 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
Other destinations in India are not much better, ever since the GoI decided to pursue a much more liberal course when it comes to giving out the rights. Secondary destinations like Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and even Kolkata are all seeing multiple carriers to Europe.

True - competition is getting fiercer all over India - but nobody says that AY HAS to open up a new route to India at all!..

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
At the end of the day, Mumbai remains the economical capital of India. It is a logical next step for AY, although I would have expected them to consider additional destinations in China first - something which may still be happening.

Yes, but Mumbai is no Singapore, and there are several other important economic centers in India as well, for instance Bangalore and Hyderabad. Don't think BOM is the next "logical" step for AY - now that AY has built up an impressive route map, I reckon it's time for them to built up some substance in it, that is, built up frequencies, before expanding it more.

Kevin777
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting Virginia (Reply 1):
LordHowe,

Very interesting maybe that new route towards India will be HYD.

Where does it say that in the article????
and I doubt it will be a good idea, even LH is cutting down one flight to HYD.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):

It is a logical next step for AY, although I would have expected them to consider additional destinations in China first - something which may still be happening.

AY has said they are planning to open 1-2 new routes per year in Asia, I guess something is cooking up for autumn 2007, as they will get two new A343s next year. Beside destinations in China and India, also Seoul has been mentioned.
They start flying BKK-KUL in spring and already flying BKK-SIN, could they have some third destination via BKK?
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Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 9):
Beside destinations in China and India, also Seoul has been mentioned.

IMO, Seoul would be a better choice than BOM

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
AI
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:05 am

they are planning to start BOM from summer of 2007.
this was posted by me sometime back.
RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 29 (by AI Sep 9 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=2980410&s=finnair+to+mumbai#ID2980410

AII
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:41 pm

The India-Finland Air Services Agreement states that DEL has to go daily before another route can be opened. So let's wait and see.

By the way, it was OH-LGG who flew the first HEL-DEL flight yesterday (and the first DEL-HEL this morning):


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jr
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:08 am

MAA could work too, with Nokia having opened multiple bases there n manufacturing, R&D and services. MAA seems poised to slowly but surely overtake Bangalore's role with a lot more open space for growth around the city. Verizon, Ford, Hyundai, Volvo, Nokia are just the first wave of big starters for the city. Will be interesting to see how air traffic grows from there in the near future.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 13):
MAA could work too, with Nokia having opened multiple bases there n manufacturing, R&D and services. MAA seems poised to slowly but surely overtake Bangalore's role with a lot more open space for growth around the city. Verizon, Ford, Hyundai, Volvo, Nokia are just the first wave of big starters for the city. Will be interesting to see how air traffic grows from there in the near future.

True, MAA is probably on the way up. Bangalore has got a lot of problems with infrastructure, political issues etc., that not blocks, but at least slows the economic growth of the city. Not that Chennai is totally free of this, but things are better here AFAIK.

A drawback, however, is that the Chennai area - AFAIK - has a smaller expatriate community in the West, something that destinations like BOM and AMD are relying on for their economy traffic. Chennai is also not the best point of entry if you're going to other parts of India, and lastly tourism in that region is very limited. Not that this would be the most important segment for AY, but it all adds up, and I'm sure that airlines flying to BOM and DEL are happy that there are some tourists aboard each flight filling up empty seats in Y. No offense to any Tamil on a.net!, but Chennai isn't exactly a tourist's dream, AT ALL.... Would on balance expect BOM or HYD before MAA.

Kevin777
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MEACEDAR
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:42 am

Do you think they will add any Middle East routes like, DXB? I don't think they fly there. I tried to look for a non-stop flight and I could not find one. Anyways, DXB or maybe AUH. What do you think?
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 14):
A drawback, however, is that the Chennai area - AFAIK - has a smaller expatriate community in the West, something that destinations like BOM and AMD are relying on for their economy traffic.

Not really true, from what I have seen there are more South Indians in the gulf and in the US than people from other parts of India. Carriers like LH, AF and KL which are operating there solely rely on the transatlantic market from South India.

Quoting Jr (Reply 13):
with Nokia having opened multiple bases there n manufacturing, R&D and services.

tell me one thing, does Nokia send an MD11 full of engineers back and forth to Bangalore everyday ? Since when did the presence of one Finnish company become sufficient justification for Finnair to start daily flights to a particular destination? I doubt international aviation works that way.
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Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 15):
Do you think they will add any Middle East routes like, DXB? I don't think they fly there. I tried to look for a non-stop flight and I could not find one. Anyways, DXB or maybe AUH. What do you think?

Naaa... not really.. AY relies on feed from Europe to their Asian routes for a great part, and going through HEL to go to the Middle East is not ideal, let alone the overcapacity in the area.... DXB-HEL I could see in the distant future maybe, 330 4x weekly or something, but not AY..

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 16):
Not really true, from what I have seen there are more South Indians in the gulf and in the US than people from other parts of India. Carriers like LH, AF and KL which are operating there solely rely on the transatlantic market from South India

But these are mainly from Kerala, on the South West Coast, not from T.N. BOM, GOI, KCH and BLR are better options for these pax.

Kevin777
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DIJKKIJK
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:25 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 17):
But these are mainly from Kerala, on the South West Coast, not from T.N.

oh no, there are tons of Tamils as well, both in the gulf and in the US.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 17):
Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 15):
Do you think they will add any Middle East routes like, DXB? I don't think they fly there. I tried to look for a non-stop flight and I could not find one. Anyways, DXB or maybe AUH. What do you think?

No, I can't see that happening. Though they have regular holiday flights (2x week, 752) from HEL to DXB, you can book the seat on their web site.
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TurkishWings
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 4):
But competition on BOM is also FIERCE! AFAIK we have 9W (2x), AI, BA (2x), VS, KL/NW, AF, LH, LX, OS and AZ all flying between BOM and Europe

And of course the 3 times weekly TK flight from IST  Smile
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blrBird
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 13):
MAA seems poised to slowly but surely overtake Bangalore's role with a lot more open space for growth around the city.

Is Bangalore land locked city?  Confused
from star dust....
 
mk777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:06 pm

I am not sure how AY is going to get full passenger loads on the HEL-DEL route. Lots of Indians in Helsinki?? They do not have many US destinations for Indians (in the US), JFK is the only one which comes to mind, to connect. If they do codeshare with AA, most people will take the AA 292/293 option from ORD or CO 82/83 option from EWR if the codeshare is with CO.

I am guessing JFK-HEL-DEL routing would do well for them especially during the peak winter months. Hell, I would do it if AY comes to IAD.

Anyhow its always nice to see a new airline in DEL. Good luck AY!
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Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 18):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 17):
But these are mainly from Kerala, on the South West Coast, not from T.N.

oh no, there are tons of Tamils as well, both in the gulf and in the US.

OK, you win, I am no expert on it as I said.. But for most Tamils BLR is a better point of entry to the state than MAA that's tucked away in the northeast corner..

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 20):
And of course the 3 times weekly TK flight from IST

Of course! Just checking if poeple were awake here!  Smile

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
If they do codeshare with AA,

They do; they also codeshare with their other OW partners.

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
Anyhow its always nice to see a new airline in DEL. Good luck AY!

Always! I also wish them good luck! Can't say I'm not a bit surprised though, would have expected ICN or some adding of frequencies first; or maybe ns to SIN or KUL.

It's not too attractive for JFK-DEL traffic; a 5-hour layover on the way out and an 8-hour one on the way back, but hell with a 60-hour layover it'd still beat AI..!

Before 9-11 SAS operated CPH-DEL (daily or at least close to daily IIRC). CPH-DEL would never be a good O & D market (considering the four Indians living in Denmark), but SK had a lot of connecting traffic from the U.K., that kept the route alive. They could do so, because back then the bilateral between UK and India was very strict, causing very high prices (and thus good yields) on UK-India. Now, the ns UK-India market (espec. LHR-BOM!) is way beyond saturated, so a CPH-DEL route would most likely be a no-go today. Can't help thinking that AY must face some of the same issues now flying HEL-DEL, don't count on the UK-India market to help them out IMO..

Btw, heard froma former intercon guy at SK, that it was an absolute nightmare administationally flying to DEL! The whole operation was corrupt; everyone at the airport and all authorities had to be bribed with free tickets (that they then sold, undercutting SK's prices) and "other stuff", and in the end it also contributed to the decision not to continue with DEL..

Kevin777
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
I am not sure how AY is going to get full passenger loads on the HEL-DEL route. Lots of Indians in Helsinki?? They do not have many US destinations for Indians (in the US), JFK is the only one which comes to mind, to connect. If they do codeshare with AA, most people will take the AA 292/293 option from ORD or CO 82/83 option from EWR if the codeshare is with CO.

I am guessing JFK-HEL-DEL routing would do well for them especially during the peak winter months. Hell, I would do it if AY comes to IAD.

Anyhow its always nice to see a new airline in DEL. Good luck AY!

Of course it's mostly question of India-Europe transit traffic. Using HEL as a hub is the main point of the Finnair's Asia business. AY said their Delhi route has been selling even better than expected.

Yes, JFK-HEL-DEL looks good on the map, maybe after they have got enough widebodies?
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Joge
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
I am not sure how AY is going to get full passenger loads on the HEL-DEL route. Lots of Indians in Helsinki??

No many Indians in Helsinki or rest of Finland.

Was the article mentioning Mumbai as a new route or destination? My guess would be it's just another charter destination, flown by 757 via DXB. I really don't think, like mentioned already, that they could ever in the near future get full plane to Mumbai. Combined with the DEL flight, possibly. Flying an A340 or MD11 between Helsinki and Mumbai - I don't think so.

-Joge
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting Joge (Reply 25):

No many Indians in Helsinki or rest of Finland.

Was the article mentioning Mumbai as a new route or destination? My guess would be it's just another charter destination, flown by 757 via DXB. I really don't think, like mentioned already, that they could ever in the near future get full plane to Mumbai. Combined with the DEL flight, possibly. Flying an A340 or MD11 between Helsinki and Mumbai - I don't think so.

-Joge

Yes, not many Indians in Finland, the ones I have met work for NOKIA.
Indians in Finland aren't the point here really  Smile

No, the possible second Indian city wouldn't be a new charter destination.
As said here earlier, DEL has to go daily before any new destination in India (Mumbai? Chennai?). If it comes reality, it would work with the same transit idea as DEL.
I think AY's next (12th) Asian destination, after KUL next spring, will be Seoul or some new city in China, where they serve four cites already. AY said they want to open 1-2 new routes a year in Asia.
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UpperDeck79
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting Andaman (Reply 24):
Yes, JFK-HEL-DEL looks good on the map, maybe after they have got enough widebodies?

You can already buy a JFK-HEL-DEL ticket on AY! Expedia.com quotes around $950 for the round-trip - not bad in my opinion.  Smile

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 22):
I am guessing JFK-HEL-DEL routing would do well for them especially during the peak winter months.

Maybe that could help the HEL-JFK route to perform better in the winter. Right now they cut it to 5 per week during the winter months.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 23):
Can't help thinking that AY must face some of the same issues now flying HEL-DEL, don't count on the UK-India market to help them out IMO..

But then again Scandinavian companies have a much larger presence in India today than what they had 5-10 years ago. And the economy in India is growing rapidly... So let's see how it goes.  Wink
AY and ANA rock!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:11 pm

Finnair do clearly target Germany for transfer-passengers to Asia.
Their intention is to increase substantially flights from HAM,HAJ,FRA,STR,DUS,NUE and potentially BRE into HEL to feed their wide-bodies.Truth is that Finnland is too small to generate the amount of traffic to justify those increased numbers of Long-Distance flights.
NUE is a new destination in Germany, that will be served daily with an Embraer 190 as of March 2007.
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 28):
Truth is that Finnland is too small to generate the amount of traffic to justify those increased numbers of Long-Distance flights.

Of course, there are just 5,2 milj Finns, AY would never build their Asian network just for Finnish markets.
Bangkok route would survive without transit passengers, but two daily departures would be too much. BTW, AY started to serve BKK exactly 30y ago 1976, with DC-8.
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 27):

You can already buy a JFK-HEL-DEL ticket on AY! Expedia.com quotes around $950 for the round-trip - not bad in my opinion.

You are right. AY's own website shows the price 969$ for JFK-HEL-DEL in November.
But as Kevin777 mentioned long layovers (5h&8h) sound no good, it shows the route wans't really planned to serve JFK.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:35 pm

What about ATQ-HEL-YYZ

enuf loads, but does AY have a HEL-YYZ
 
Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:26 pm

Quoting Joge (Reply 25):
I really don't think, like mentioned already, that they could ever in the near future get full plane to Mumbai. Combined with the DEL flight, possibly

Are you thinking something like HEL-DEL-BOM? Don't think it would work, adding two hours of flying time to Mumbai and flying half-empty DEL-BOM. Could work if the plane spent half a day on the tarmac in DEL anyway, but not otherwise IMO. Triangular HEL-DEL-BOM-HEL would be unattractive.

Quoting Andaman (Reply 26):
I think AY's next (12th) Asian destination, after KUL next spring, will be Seoul or some new city in China, where they serve four cites already. AY said they want to open 1-2 new routes a year in Asia

My money is on Seoul. But what is it with AY an opening new Asian destinations like this is a goal in itself? Wasn't it about time they added some frequencies too?? I think that could really boost the product for biz pax, right now they've got an excellent product; the direct route to Asia, easy transfer in Vantaa as opposed to LHR or FRA etc., but one major drawback: Lack of frequencies.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 27):
But then again Scandinavian companies have a much larger presence in India today than what they had 5-10 years ago. And the economy in India is growing rapidly... So let's see how it goes

Yes, but still 5-10 years ago Scandinavian companies also had a significant presence there. Besides, there is a major problem here, in that the business traffic to India isn't just going to DEL or BOM. Subsidiaries are often located in places like BLR, HYD, AMD, MAA etc., and we all know that it's preferred to transfer in Europe rather than in India. Thus, I don't think AY should count too much on traffic beyond DEL.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 28):
Finnair do clearly target Germany for transfer-passengers to Asia.
Their intention is to increase substantially flights from HAM,HAJ,FRA,STR,DUS,NUE and potentially BRE into HEL to feed their wide-bodies.Truth is that Finnland is too small to generate the amount of traffic to justify those increased numbers of Long-Distance flights.

But I guess they must be going for some high-yield O & D also - an airline like AY cannot base an entire E190 flight on connecting traffic, since tickets here often will have to sell at a discount to lure pax via HEL. But I do think that there is some O & D to gain here also, which otherwise would go through CPH.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 31):
What about ATQ-HEL-YYZ

enuf loads, but does AY have a HEL-YYZ

ATQ??????? What on earth would AY be doing there?? Are there others than AI and 9W that serve that airport with international services at all?? AY doesn't serve YYZ, but regardless of this ATQ would be out of the question. Besides, ATQ is AFAIK highly seasonal. Also, if you're going to Punjab fly to DEL and take a train for a few hours..

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
My money is on Seoul.

So is mine. AY already has a Korean website, too.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
But what is it with AY an opening new Asian destinations like this is a goal in itself? Wasn't it about time they added some frequencies too??

You are right. But actually AY is also going to add frequencies: two brand new A343s will be in the fleet in June but no new destinations (besides swapping 7pw SIN to 4pw SIN + 3pw KUL). BKK will go 13 pw, KIX will go daily, JFK daily, PEK daily, PVG daily, DEL will go5 pw, NGO 4pw etc. HKG will be also only 4pw, though, which is a drawback in my opinion.
AY and ANA rock!
 
Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 33):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
My money is on Seoul.

So is mine. AY already has a Korean website, too.

...Haven been given the choice to bet on either DEL or ICN half a year ago, I would also have put my money on ICN...

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 33):
BKK will go 13 pw, KIX will go daily, JFK daily, PEK daily, PVG daily

Now that's more like it! PEK and PVG daily is right in SK's face, and KIX daily is a strong card for the Scandinavian market also. BKK: Awesome. I'm sure they're also keeping up frequencies and capacity here to deter Thai from entry, although they've already announced that they'd like to fly to HEL via CDG (thread on this three weeks ago).

They're getting a 3rd weekly to NRT too, right?? After some serious loobying???

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 33):
NGO 4pw etc. HKG will be also only 4pw, though, which is a drawback in my opinion.

When/if NGO goes daily, AY will be damn strong on Japan..! HKG only 4 pw surprises me also... didn't they start flying to HKG ns last spring? Has that meant a stop of the continuation of some BKK flights to HKG?

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
jaysit
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Joge (Reply 25):
No many Indians in Helsinki or rest of Finland.

Not many Indians in Austria either.

And OS has almost 2 daily widebodies from India to their Vienna hub.
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Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 35):
Not many Indians in Austria either.

And OS has almost 2 daily widebodies from India to their Vienna hub.

VIE has a much better geographical position to connect people between Europe and BOM/DEL; also the VIE originating market (business and leisure) simply is bigger than that of HEL. Btw, don't know how good OS is doing on their BOM service currently; I seriously doubt that they're making money.

Kevin777
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HB-IWC
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
I think that could really boost the product for biz pax, right now they've got an excellent product

I know quite a few people, most of them very frequent business travelers, who tend to disagree with your statement there. Finnair's new business class seats is nothing special. It is out there in the grey mass. Nothing even close to what the likes of BA are offering. Even the ever mediocre KLM is taking away the middle seat in business class on its MD11 fleet, yet AY is still featuring that debacle. And let's not even talk about the likes of SQ and EY, both of whom are introducing a 1-2-1 layout in their new business class, featuring direct aisle access from every single seat. I've also heard that the AY longhaul inflight service is nothing to write home about. You might want to take a look at one of Carfield's many excellent trip reports on AY's new business class:
AY HKG-HEL-GVA And Back In J August 2006 (by Carfield Aug 19 2006 in Trip Reports)
 
Kevin777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 37):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 32):
I think that could really boost the product for biz pax, right now they've got an excellent product

I know quite a few people, most of them very frequent business travelers, who tend to disagree with your statement there. Finnair's new business class seats is nothing special. It is out there in the grey mass. Nothing even close to what the likes of BA are offering. Even the ever mediocre KLM is taking away the middle seat in business class on its MD11 fleet, yet AY is still featuring that debacle. And let's not even talk about the likes of SQ and EY, both of whom are introducing a 1-2-1 layout in their new business class, featuring direct aisle access from every single seat. I've also heard that the AY longhaul inflight service is nothing to write home about. You might want to take a look at one of Carfield's many excellent trip reports on AY's new business class:

I was more referring to the routing via HEL (that often saves time) and the easy transfer at HEL (as opposed to a transfer from hell at, say, LHR) - not the inflight product as such. But of course this matters also. And no, AY is no EY or SQ, and I don't think they want to be / should be either. BA? Well their new business class (CW) is still 8 abreast in the 747 and 777; it's not like AY's J should be compared to First anyway. EY and SQ? Well these service levels are not suited for Finnair, nor are they suited for many markets in the US and Europe. IMO AY offers a fine business product (haven't tried it) suited for most upscale, yet cost conscious biz travellers, but if you really need to sit 1-2-1 in business class - and your company's travel policy allows it - then fly SQ or EY..

Kevin777
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):

When/if NGO goes daily, AY will be damn strong on Japan..! HKG only 4 pw surprises me also... didn't they start flying to HKG ns last spring? Has that meant a stop of the continuation of some BKK flights to HKG?

Kevin777

Yes, HKG was ns last summer and will return that next spring, when they start flying to KUL via BKK.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 34):


They're getting a 3rd weekly to NRT too, right?? After some serious loobying???

Actually both 3rd and 4th... after some serious lobbying  Smile
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mk777
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 35):
Not many Indians in Austria either.

And OS has almost 2 daily widebodies from India to their Vienna hub.

OS has good connections from VIE to North America-IAD, JFK and YYZ. All these cities have an enormous Indian population and therefore, would rather take this flight. Besides the connection time isn't all that bad (maybe 2hr and 4hrs)

Ive flown on OS 93/94/33/34 many times and the aircraft is never empty. AY needs to market the JFK-HEL-DEL route to make some profit.
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andaman
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 40):

AY needs to market the JFK-HEL-DEL route to make some profit.

Obviously AY's main focus here is in Northern-Europe and it seems DEL is selling well.
JFK-HEL-DEL could be a product of it's own in future, with more comfortable timetables.
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UpperDeck79
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 39):
Actually both 3rd and 4th... after some serious lobbying

Plus an aircraft that can land on the shorter of the two Narita runways.  Wink That's how the 2 departure and 2 landing slots on the longer one could be turned into 4 departure slots.
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UpperDeck79
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Andaman (Reply 41):
JFK-HEL-DEL could be a product of it's own in future, with more comfortable timetables.

The JFK and DEL flights are now using the same departure and arrival banks, both departing just after 2 p.m. and arriving back early morning. This is how the DEL flight didn't need any new (Northern) European flights to feed it as all the same flights that feed the JFK flight can feed the DEL flight too - both outbound and inbound.

This is why it would mean some serious timetable and route network fixing to make the JFK-HEL-DEL-HEL-JFK route work with a shorter transfer time at HEL - quite impossible in the next few years IMHO.
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manny
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 36):
Btw, don't know how good OS is doing on their BOM service currently; I seriously doubt that they're making money.

I am flying them in 3 weeks to BOM. I will let you guys know.
 
jaysit
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RE: Finnair's Next Destination In India: Mumbai

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 36):
VIE has a much better geographical position to connect people between Europe and BOM/DEL; also the VIE originating market (business and leisure) simply is bigger than that of HEL. Btw, don't know how good OS is doing on their BOM service currently; I seriously doubt that they're making money

But Finnair can also target the US market.

As far as OS goes, it's going full this winter season to BOM. I know. I tried to get a ticket. No go. I think it does really well on the DEL sector throughout the year. Perhaps its because its built up a market presence having been there longer.
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