alanCHS
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:19 am

Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:47 pm

CNN is flashing the news now on it's website
formerly N408BN, N757AT, Soupthansa, ARCJET
 
mxp
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:50 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:55 pm

I read it now in a italian news. Says hould be an ADC airline aircraft.
Alberto
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:59 pm

A plane from ADC airlines, 100 or so onboard. Anybody knows anything about ADC airlines? Haven't heard of them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6096420.stm

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
ehho
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:00 pm

According to Airfleets.net they have two B732. With the 100 pax the BBC is reporting it must be one of them. Not good at all...

[Edited 2006-10-29 14:05:37]
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:01 pm

Any fatalities, if there are R.I.P.

Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

What a silly and absolutely unsubstantiated remark. As with any other aircraft type, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the operating of a B732, if only it is properly maintained.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3661
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:09 pm

ADC Airlines have 4 Boieng 737-200s and a website http://www.adcairlines.com
I was in Nigeria last year to visit family living there. Just around that time were two major aircrashes, the Bellview 737-200 and the Sosoliso DC-9.
It's a pity the safety didn't improve and there is yet another big aircrash, while Nigerias domestic flight volume is smaller then let's say Italy, South Africa or Thailand.

The foreign community is told by the companies and ambassies to try and stick to Virgin Nigeria and Aerocontracors (ACN).

Chanchangi, IRS and Bellview have some doubts but you can take them AYOR.

ADC, Sosoliso, Dasab, EAS, Space World and Fresh Air are told to be avoided.

[Edited 2006-10-29 14:13:33]
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
FJWH
Posts: 922
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 4:50 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:10 pm

FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):

Yes if maintained properly but half of them aren't and the ones that are stil are more likely to go wrong than you brand new 738 or any 738 for that matter. Its scary that airlines still operate them. I for one would be quite uncomfortable on a 732 nowadays
 
kelebek
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:17 pm

Just want to add, what
Austrian National TV reports and what wasn't already reported by CNN.
(see http://www.orf.at/?href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orf.at%2Fticker%2F234056.html - sorry just avaliable in German)

> plane crashed shortly after take-off.
> Flight from Lagos to Sokoto with stop in Abuja for letting some PAX go off the plane.

hope for many survivors,
r.i.p to all victims

[Edited 2006-10-29 14:19:33]
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):

Yes if maintained properly but half of them aren't and the ones that are stil are more likely to go wrong than you brand new 738 or any 738 for that matter. Its scary that airlines still operate them. I for one would be quite uncomfortable on a 732 nowadays

Huh?

This is all about maintainance and operations......not the age of the aircraft. Even the newest airplane, if not properly maintained and not properly operated (ie, overloaded) is a disaster waiting to happen. Its regulation and standards of commerical aviation in Nigeria (or lack thereof) is becoming a issue, more and more>

I would not hesitate to jump onboard a 35+ year old DC9 operated by NW, but I would think twice about flying a newly delivered A32X or 737NG operated by some carriers.
 
kelebek
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:22 pm

UPDATE:

they just added:

"Kurz nach dem Abheben verlor die Maschine das Gleichgewicht und stürzte ab", sagte ein Mitarbeiter der Luftfahrtindustrie in Lagos. Nach ersten Berichten lokaler Medien fing die Maschine Feuer. Erste Suchmannschaften vor Ort fanden keine Überlebenden."

i just translate the basic information of this statement to english:
>"Shortly after Take-off the aircraft lost balance and droped down."-
According to a Employee of Flight-Industry in Lagos.
>Local Media was reporting the A/C got fire.
>First Search-Troops weren't able to find any survivors yet.


PS. Source is again: http://www.orf.at/?href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.orf.at%2Fticker%2F234056.html

[Edited 2006-10-29 14:24:01]
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):

True but I would still be happier on a BA A320 than a BA 732 if you see what I mean, no matter how well maintained, I would still rather be on a well maintained A320/738

I would rather be on a NW A319 than a NW DC9

Get my point
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:29 pm

ADC Airlines suffered crashes in 1994 (3 fatalities), 1995, 1996 (130 fatalities), 1999 (1 fatality), and now 2006 (? fatalities).

This airline which once operated 727-200s, ATR42, and BaC 1-11 recently attempted to increase its capital base by selling additional shares on the Nigerian Stock Exchange (last month). This was meant to provide finance for the purchase of 4 737-300s, restoration of the airline's west african flight network, and to comply with Nigeria's new minimum airline capitalization requirements.

I think that with this latest accident, and increased competition from Virgin Nigeria, Arik, Aero, etc. this airline is bound to become HISTORY once and for all (The airline shut down between 2000 and 2003 for restructuring).
If there is a will, there is a way
 
OV735
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:49 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

A brand new 737NG would be a death trap, if it's not maintained and operated in accordance to correct procedures. Quite a silly statement to make, honestly.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
I would rather be on a NW A319 than a NW DC9

Get my point

I'd rather go with proven oldschool tech than with the modern composite aircraft where the silicone makes most of the decisions for the pilots.

Get my point?

Hoping for survivors.
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
True but I would still be happier on a BA A320 than a BA 732 if you see what I mean, no matter how well maintained, I would still rather be on a well maintained A320/738

I would rather be on a NW A319 than a NW DC9

Get my point

Your point is not valid.
For that matter, I would rather be on ANY A320 or 738 that wasn't BA. (Just a personal thing)
 
kiwelumo
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 5:27 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:52 pm

Competition is becoming intense in Nigerian Domestic Aviation as new and better capitalized airlines such as Virgin Nigeria, Aero and Arik (which starts revenue service tommorrow) force out the smaller less capitalized players like ADC, Chanchangi, EAS (now Nicon). As a Nigerian-American, I am deeply distressed by this crash and I am praying that there are survivors amongst the 104 souls on board.

Despite this setback, Aviation in Nigeria is improving by the day thanks to the Government waking up to it's responsibilities and Virgin Nigeria/Aero/Arik Air which are bringing back professinalism, crew training, intergrity and accountability to the Aviation Industry in Nigeria. It is almost a year since the Bellview crash in which I lost someone who had dated as a teenager.

A lot has improved in Nigeria. Imagine Italy in the 1970's before the deregulation. Imagine that Alitalia suddenly folded because of gross incompetence and mismanagement. Now imagine the appearance of scores of airlines attempting to fill the void without proper State supervision and regulations (sort of a free market with no rules and lots of corruption). This was the situation in Nigeria between 1995 and 2003. There has been a seismic level of improvement in Nigerian Aviation and a lot more is in progress.

I have visited Nigeria 5 times this year and have flown around the country mostly with Virgin Nigeria, Bellview and Aero. In the coming months, I will be uploading photos that give credence to the changing and improving situation in Nigeria Aviation.

May the souls of those who have departed rest in peace, Amen. I am proud of A.Net, proud to be a member of this august body of gentlemen and Ladies. I am incredibly impressed with the speed that news is captured by members and quickly dessiminated. I had just gotten 4 phone calls (1 from Abuja and 3 from Lagos) on this crash and I came to post it on A.NET only to find high quality and accurate info already circulating.

I thank you all and most importantly the thread starter AlanCHS.

Ken Iwelumo
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

as a 737 pilot, im going to pretend you didnt say that...

Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
True but I would still be happier on a BA A320

like the BA A320 that lost all electronics and circled in partial darkness...

shit happens to any plane...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Speedbirdie
Posts: 873
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 5:11 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 22):
like the BA A320 that lost all electronics and circled in partial darkness...

The 319 you mean? G-EUOB for your info..
Never give up..
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:13 pm

May God be with those who lost their lives and the Families that are involved.

Chuck
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

I'm sure you would be very happy to fly on a UK Charter config 757 which was built in the early 80s. Maybe you are not aware that many 732s and 727s were built in the same period!
Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
User avatar
viasa
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting EHHO (Reply 3):
According to Airfleets.net they have two B732.



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 7):
ADC Airlines have 4 Boieng 737-200s and a website http://www.adcairlines.com

And we say that they have three B737-200. http://www.ch-aviation.ch/aircraft.php?search=set&airline=Z7&al_op=1 In totall they had four B732 - two former US Airways, and two former Ansett New Zealand aircraft. One of the Ansett 737 was scrapped some times before.

To our datebase, the have lost one B727-200 and two DC-9-30 before... not the safest airline from Nigeria (and Nigeria is itself not very safe to fly).
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:23 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6096420.stm
The above link is to the BBC website. The crash happened shortly after takeoff, was about 100 people aboard and occurred during a storm. There is some hope for some survivors.
That it occurred during a storm could negate the suggestions of some of the posters above already asserting the cause of this accident on the age, condition or maintenance of the aircraft involved, may have been overloaded and so on. The pilots could have been given bad weather info, were inexperienced in such conditions, under pressure to get going, had poor training or just used poor judgment. ATC could have screwed it up too. So let us wait for a preliminary investigation before we assert blame.
Let us hope for survivors.
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:39 pm

Alas, with ADC it was a matter of time before something like this happened again. As so many here have pointed out, the non-Virgin/Aero carriers (and maybe Arik soon) simply have a "different" set of standards.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
flyabunch
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:42 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:24 am

Whenever one of these African crashes occur, I hear a lot about old planes and/or maintenance. What I don't hear much about is crew competence and training. Should we not also include crew factor in any discussion?

And, speaking of crew, ground crew competence seems to be an issue to with load balance, etc.

Mike
 
kiwelumo
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 5:27 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:37 am

This is ADC's second crash in the last 10 years. It is a dinosaur as far as aviation in Nigeria is concerned. No matter who is at fault, I doubt that ADC Airlines as a business will survive this crash.

Arik Air is starting domestic service tomorrow, October 30, 2006 with 2 brand new Canadair CRJ 900's, three relatively new CRJ 200's, two ex United 737-300's (1990). Virgin Nigeria is evaluating ERJ 145's or CRJ 900's for some of it's domestic service in addition to the ex Easyjet Boeing 737-300's in it's fleet.

So the writing is on the wall for under capitalized old timers flying 737-200's and DC-9's in Nigeria such as Sosoliso, Chanchangi, EAS, Fresh Air, ADC etc. With a population of 140 million and a large geographical territory, aviation will improve in Nigeria over time. In many ways, Nigeria mirrors India. A decade ago flying in India was a risky business. But with reforms, new capital infusion and a growing middle class, things are bright.

Lufthansa Service Technic is setting up a maintenance business in Nigeria.

After an EAS BAC 1-11 crashed in Kano several years ago, the Nigerian Government reacted by banning all BAC 1-11's in Nigerian Aerospace. This was captured so eloquently by Captain Makinde's photo showing abandoned BAC 1-11 hulls at Benin City Airport. My fear is that the Nigerian Government will ban all Boeing 737-200's and Boeing 727's. They also did that for a while to all Fokker 27 and 28's in the early 1980's after two crashes of the type.

Ken.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:40 am

Condolensces to the victims...
Another 732 bites the dust  Sad

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps



Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 26):
I'm sure you would be very happy to fly on a UK Charter config 757 which was built in the early 80s. Maybe you are not aware that many 732s and 727s were built in the same period!



Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
True but I would still be happier on a BA A320 than a BA 732 if you see what I mean, no matter how well maintained, I would still rather be on a well maintained A320/738

I would rather be on a NW A319 than a NW DC9

Oh no... not again! Would you rather fly a NW DC9 or a "Gumbo Air" 738? I know which one I would choose. I've flown a 1984 built 732 with better maintenance than a certain 777, and the 732 felt better too on that occasion!

You'd be happier on a BA A320 than on a BA732? Let me put the twist into this... Based on age, I've been on the following sometime in my past...
A320-111 G-BUSB was delivered on 14Apr1988
B737-209 PK-RIO (it has since been scrapped after going to Aloha) originally delivered to China Airlines in 15 July 1988...

So based on the age thing... G-BUSB was more dangerous as it was older? Heck, they scrapped that PK-RIO... maybe G-BUSB should have been scrapped a while back too then?

Quoting OV735 (Reply 17):
I'd rather go with proven oldschool tech than with the modern composite aircraft where the silicone makes most of the decisions for the pilots.

Given equal maintenance... YES ! Me Too!

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Yes if maintained properly but half of them aren't and the ones that are stil are more likely to go wrong than you brand new 738 or any 738 for that matter. Its scary that airlines still operate them. I for one would be quite uncomfortable on a 732 nowadays

Have a look at:

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 22):
like the BA A320 that lost all electronics and circled in partial darkness...

Or perhaps like that 734 that recently almost went inverted shortly after departure from Jakarta when they switched the autopilot on... Bad maintenance on the A/P, batteries and IRS... They had 600ft of air left when they recovered. (Didn't make the news, but the crew has been officially grounded due to the incident).

Want more things to go wrong? How about that 733 that strayed 400NM from it's destination on a 2hr trip and landed in an airfield barely enough to fit a Fokker 28... IRS failure... U won't get that on a 732! It would be impossible for that accident to occur.

OK, let's go to non maintenance related... How about crew screwing up because of their (lack of) appreciation to newer technology... Like that Hapag Lloyd A310 in Vienna mishap, or AA 757 in Cali (which discovered a new "disease" that comes with the current technology, that is, "Fast Finger Freddy" Syndrome).

Age of the aircraft has NOTHING to do with it. There has been crew who reverted to 732 after a few months flying a 733/4/5 on an "unsafe carrier"... their reasoning, there are more things to go wrong on a poorly maintained 733/4/5 than on a poorly maintained 732!

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
timboflier215
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:50 am

BBC say that its a 727, but I guess that could well be wrong. They are also saying several high ranking people, including senators and the leader of Nigeria's Muslims, The Sultan of Sokoto Mohammadu Maccido, were on board and were killed. Apparently 4 people survived. RIP to all those killed, a sad day for aviation.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4049
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:56 am

The first reaction I had as I screamed it out ... "AGAIN". Really sad. RIP.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
KL577
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:21 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:07 am

I currently live in Kano and was planning to sign up to A.net today, of course not knowing it was going to be a very sad day for Nigerian Aviation (again).

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 7):
The foreign community is told by the companies and ambassies to try and stick to Virgin Nigeria and Aerocontracors (ACN).

Chanchangi, IRS and Bellview have some doubts but you can take them AYOR.

ADC, Sosoliso, Dasab, EAS, Space World and Fresh Air are told to be avoided.

Indeed we are adviced to fly VK and or AJ. Though for most destinations in Nigeria you don't have any other choice. In my opinion ADC was fairly OK, unlike IRS who really have a bad name. As I am typing this a Spaceworld B737 flies over my house (probably leased by IRS). Anyway ADC have (had?) big ambitions as you can read in the article from the Vanguard:

http://www.vanguardngr.com/articles/...ptember06/14092006/b214092006.html


Does anybody know if ABV is still open? (I have colleagues flying on KL 577 tonight)
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:12 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 45):
I currently live in Kano and was planning to sign up to A.net today, of course not knowing it was going to be a very sad day for Nigerian Aviation (again).

A sad day to join, yes. But welcome to a.net.

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
LawnDart
Posts: 861
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:17 am

With all the conversation about old and/or poorly maintained aircraft flown in "third world" countries, did anyone notice the BBC report indicated weather may have been a factor?
 
pdxtriple7
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:27 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:23 am

CNN now says 7 being treated and 97 feared dead.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 47):
With all the conversation about old and/or poorly maintained aircraft flown in "third world" countries, did anyone notice the BBC report indicated weather may have been a factor?

but maybe in some other country the airplane might have been delayed due to weather and advised not to take off.. However, I still don't buy the "old airplane theory" though. If they wanted, these 737s could be sent overseas, to facilities in Miami for example that deal with JTD8s and maintenance of older jets. It might cost more, but the results would be better long-term.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3644
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Any fatalities, if there are R.I.P.

Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

The 737-200 is a tank in my book. They are tough, and can last another 20 years if they are maintained well. The death trap part is partly due to poor training and maintenace. Unfortunatley, I suspect that some of the smaller African airlines have some defencies when it comes to training in all aspects of an airline (maintenance, ground crews, and flight crews). Also assisting in accidents is lack of $$$ to accomplish the correct training and maintenance. Africa has everything from DC-3's to 707's to the newest birds in service, and that clues in on the amount of cash the airlines might have to upgrade fleets and so on. I would fly on Ethiopian any day, and SAA at the drop of a dime.

I am not sure what airworthy regualations Africa has on airlines, but I would think they need to increase the amount of inspectors in that area. I am taking a blind shot at it, as I have no clue really at what programs they have in place.

You can flame me for my opinions, but I will also state that the larger carriers do have excellent programs in place.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Yes if maintained properly but half of them aren't and the ones that are stil are more likely to go wrong than you brand new 738 or any 738 for that matter. Its scary that airlines still operate them. I for one would be quite uncomfortable on a 732 nowadays

The last 737-200 I flew on was on HP a few years back. I really did not even know I was on a 200 until I looked out the window after pushing back. It was a smooth ride, great service, and the cabin was clean as a whistle. I had no fear or doubt in my mind, and miss seeing them.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 14):
True but I would still be happier on a BA A320 than a BA 732 if you see what I mean, no matter how well maintained, I would still rather be on a well maintained A320/738

I would rather be on a NW A319 than a NW DC9

Get my point

Gotcha. I guess it is just a personal choice. I would love to be on a NW DC-9, because I am a classic freak. Just like a classic corvette.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:08 am

Doesn't even DL still fly a few 732s? Granted, I know their standards of maintenance would be better than some, but I think they still have a few, or at best very, very recently rid themselves of them.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

You seem to be well informed. When did they turn into death traps? Because i was on a 732 last year and we landed without any injuries.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:30 am

Delta has retired its last 732 in september. Very, very recently indeed.

My last flight in a 732 was back in 1994 with AMC of Egypt, and it was the worst flight since. A rotten old beast, cosmetically looking like bound for the scrappers immiadetely. Oh wonder, they still operate that particular aircraft!
No doubt a well-maintained 732 is ok to fly and a wordwide ban of this type doesn´t make sense, but for Nigeria - they should ground them asap as all airlines operating them are not known for their quality in maintenance. They should dump them along the 1-11s in Benin City. Otherwise one could bet with a high chance that within the next 12 months another one will bite the dust.
 
VivaGunners
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 5:22 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:35 am

How sad...
RIP to all the victims
Any ideas for a signature?
 
cumulus
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:39 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 22):
as a 737 pilot, im going to pretend you didnt say that...

Irrelevant.

I think it's a combination of a few factors here.

The 732 is very old now and needs a lot of maintenance, there are still some 732 here in the U.K (Palmair G-CEAC) and a mate of mine is a F/O on one of them he'll tell you the same.

The Nigerian's are notorious for "doing things on the cheap", so this may indicate that corners have been cut with maintenance.

Nigerian air training isn't the best, however the flight crew may be of different origin.

Combining these factors, I wouldn't personally get on the thing in the first place.
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:48 am

NA,
I think it should start with the regulatory body in the case of Nigeria... If one small airline there gets a jackpot and starts operating factory fresh aircraft but doesn't maintain them and crashes all of them within 5 years, does it justify banning that type? unlikely of course, but simple banning doesn't solve it. There have been extremely cheap 733s in the market, so, what if they start turning 733s into lawn darts? I'm saying this because the regulatory body where I am have stopped allowing 732s being brought into the country, and... they just got 733s and start banging them into lawn darts...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
What a silly and absolutely unsubstantiated remark. As with any other aircraft type, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the operating of a B732, if only it is properly maintained.

 checkmark 

This statement is foolish. Area 51 ferries their workers in 732s and those things are in the air constantly. Maintain them and watch the airframe and your fine.

R.I.P.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9854
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Still think 732's should be taken out of service now they are death traps

What a totally pathitic remark. Oh no then everyone better avoid NW and their DC9s, AAs mad dogs, UAs B733s and ever other airline with an old fleet. It doesn't matter if an airline has an old fleet IT MATTERS ON HOW WELL THE FLEET IS MAINTAINED. NWs DC9s and prefectly maintained and thats why they are still excellent machines, same with AA and UA.

RIP to all the victims
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:31 am

Yahoo is reporting the aircraft a "23 year old Boeing 737-2B7".

Former USAir aircraft... wishing peace for the victims.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:34 am

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
Fly-K
Posts: 2991
Joined: Thu May 04, 2000 4:26 pm

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 77):
Yahoo is reporting the aircraft a "23 year old Boeing 737-2B7".

So it's 5N-BFJ or -BFK.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
 
Alessandro
Posts: 4962
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 3:13 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:39 am

Seem like 100 of the 104 onboard lost their lives, amazing that anyone survived when you see the wreckage, http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.j...=148&a=584451&previousRenderType=6
Seem like this will have political consequenses with a Nigerian muslim leader among the who lost their lives and hi-rank politicans among the victims.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
DeC
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:12 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:45 am

Photo from the crash site, showing the tail section:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...00/jpg/_42253212_planecrash203.jpg
DEC
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 77):
Yahoo is reporting the aircraft a "23 year old Boeing 737-2B7".

Likely to be 5N-BFK or 5N-BFJ. Two other 732s of ADC are ex-Britannia. I don´t know if they have more active.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: Nigerian Airliner Crashed At Abuja Airport

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:51 am

A couple of hypothetical scenarios...

1. Take a 25-year old 737-200, overload it to 20,000 lbs over max. takeoff weight, and load too much in the aft end of the aircraft. After takeoff, it crashes, nose-high, killing everyone aboard.

2. Take a brand-new 737-700 or A320, overload it to 20,000 lbs over max. takeoff weight, and load too much in the aft end of the aircraft. After takeoff, it crashes, nose-high, killing everyone aboard.

Now, in most places of the world, both scenarios #1 or #2 would lead folks to conclude that the manner in which both aircraft were operated (i.e. overloaded and mis-loaded) was a fault of the operator, and not a fault of the aircraft itself.

In other places of the world, scenario #2 would produce the same conclusion as above, yet scenario #1 would somehow "prove" the 737-200 was some kind of inherently unsafe "killer" aircraft that needed to grounded immediately and forevermore.

Bizzare...  

Now, I have no idea whatsoever what caused the ADC crash, and my overloading and mis-loading my scenario flights were for example only. My essential point remains that it's just flat-out wrong and ignorant to "blame" the 732 (or any other aircraft) for any inappropriate way that it's operated, flown, or maintained.

[Edited 2006-10-29 20:10:27]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.