HB-IWC
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AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:47 am

Air France has just published and loaded into the reservation systems a first draft summer schedule for the 2007 season. There are quite a couple of changes, particularly in the transatlantic network. Here is an overview of the most important changes:


North America

Air France is to introduce a sixth daily frequency between its CDG homebase and New York's main JFK airport. The return portion on this roundtrip will operate as the airline's first daylight transatlantic flight. Here is the schedule for that flight:

AF004 CDG JFK 2100 2315 - daily A332
AF005 JFK CDG 0745 2100 - daily A332

Air France will continue to operate 5 overnight rotations on the JFK route, just like last year operated with B772 (twice daily), B77W (twice daily) and B744 (once daily). Only the B777 flights offer a three class service, whilst the B744 and A332 aircraft are operated in a 2-class setup. As a result of these reinforced JFK operations, Air France will downgrade its daily CDG EWR rotation to an A332 only.

In Canada, meanwhile, Toronto Pearson will see a considerable capacity increase, when Air France's daily A343 operated flight is upgraded to a B744 for the summer. In addition to this capacity increase, AF's partner KLM will introduce 5 extra AMS YYZ rotations, bringing the total number of flights on this route to 12 weekly.

Montreal has always been an important station for AF, and next summer will see the return of the B773ER on the CDG YUL route - after just one year of absence -, in addition to a daily B744 afternoon flight. The evening flight from CDG will next year operate with a mixture of A343 and A332.

A number of B744 frames will be introduced into Air France's mainline network after they have been replaced in the Caribbean and Indian Ocean network by additional B773ER frames with holiday configuration which are due to arrive in the first half of 2007. Apart from Toronto, also Boston and Atlanta will see the deployment of the B744.

As for Boston, last summer's twice daily A343 operations will be replaced by a daily A343 and a daily B744, which represents quite a capacity increase for this route. This winter, AF is deploying a daily B744 to BOS. Atlanta has recently been downgraded from a 3-class to a 2-class station, with the deployment of the A343 this winter. Next summer, that same flight will be upgraded to a daily B744, emphasizing the importance of the CDG ATL interhub route. The AF-operated CDG ATL flight is also getting new timings, allowing for increased connectivity at ATL. Another interhub route, between Paris and Cincinnati is not expected to return to the Air France network next summer. Codeshare partner Delta is now planned to operate the only nonstop between the two hubs.

Washington's Dulles airport will receive an eclectic mix of Air France aircraft next year, when the airline will deploy the B772, B773 and A332 on its three daily flights. No major changes are planned for Chicago (daily A343), Houston (B772 + A332), Detroit (A332), Philadelphia (A343), Miami (B744) and San Francisco (B744 for the summer, up from A343 in winter). Los Angeles will continue to see the A343 deployed on the 4 weekly Papeete rotations. This is a continuation of the current winter schedule. An A343 is flown is flown in weekly to assure these four Tahiti roundtrips.


Central and South America

Mexico will once again receive the Air France B744 next summer, when daily evening flight will be operated with B744 four times weekly. The other three evening flights will operate with A343. Air France also continues to operate a daily 3-class B772 between CDG and MEX, leaving Paris in the 1pm longhaul departure bank.

In Brazil, Air France is once again increasing frequencies next summer, when the airline plans to reinforce the current five weekly southbound daylight flights between Paris and Sao Paulo to daily. As such Air France will operate twice daily flights into Guarulhos, once with A332 and the overnight rotation with B772ER, down from the B773ER this winter. Rio continues to receive a daily B744.

Further south, Air France will for the first time continue to operate nonstop flights between Paris and Santiago de Chile during the northern summer. Thrice weekly nonstops between the two cities are planned as well as a thrice weekly one stop service via Buenos Aires. The Argentinean capital will continue to be served daily, with four of these flights dedicated terminator services whilst 3 flights are to continue to Santiago. All flights to Argentina and Chile operate with B772.


Africa and the Middle East

Not much news in the African and Middle East networks. Air France will continue to operate 12 weekly frequencies into Johannesburg (daily B77W + 5 weekly A343), up from the 10 frequencies last summer. Also, Air France will return to Kenya, albeit via a codeshare agreement with Kenya Airways, which will operate thrice weekly services into Paris commencing this winter. Flights are operated by KQ's B767s.

In the Middle East, Air France is planning to reduce frequencies to Dubai during the heat of the summer. Partner KLM is for the first time doing the same thing.


Asia

The most eyecatching change in Air France's Asian network will be the further increase of frequencies to Hongkong. Last summer, the airline introduced 3 additional flights between CDG and HKG, with these extra flights operating with a daylight westbound sector. This winter, these extra flights are being upgraded from the initial A332 to the B772. Next summer's schedule is further boosting capacity by adding three more HKG rotations, making this second Hongkong service 6 weekly and growing the total number of flights between Paris and Hongkong to 13 weekly. All 13 service are operated with the B772.

In Southeast Asia, Bangkok and its tag ons Ho Chi Minh (Saigon) and Hanoi are to once again receive the A343, down from the B744 which is being deployed during the busier winter season. Singapore continues to see a daily B77W flight.

In India, Air France is downgrading Delhi services from the B744 this winter to the A343. Mumbai continues to receive the B772, while Bangalore sees a continuation of daily services with A332. Chennai, the airline's latest addition in India, is continuing to see thrice weekly A343 ops.

China is an increasingly important market for Air France and the airline will once again boost services there to twice daily with B777. AF already operated such a regimen last summer. Services to Shanghai (10 weekly, B772) and Canton (thrice weekly, A343) remain unchanged. Also, services to Korea (daily B77W) and Japan (20 weekly NRT and daily KIX) remain as before.
 
Someone83
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:17 am

Does it say anything about a possible increase from 2x daily to 3x daily CDG-OSL which there has been rumours about?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
AF005 JFK CDG 0745 2100 - daily A332

I'm curious to see how this will do; from experience I think it's going to be an uphill battle.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
Another interhub route, between Paris and Cincinnati is not expected to return to the Air France network next summer. Codeshare partner Delta is now planned to operate the only nonstop between the two hubs.

This doesnt surprise me at all. Its another kick in the shins for the guys in Northern Kentucky. This seems to go hand in hand with the reduction in service from CVG on DL. Were the loads on this flight good? If they were, maybe AF is just reading the writing on the wall. If not then the service could probably be better elsewhere anyway.
It is what it is...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 3):
Were the loads on this flight good?

The loads were fine but I couldn't tell you anything about the yields. I can guess that the yields were crap since A) it's CVG, B) the daily local demand between CVG and CDG could probably fit on a CRJ with seats to spare, and C) the rest of the traffic that fills up the plane is competing with other airlines and a handful of hubs in the Midwest alone.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Evan767
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:39 am

Damn, I used to remember taxiing right by that giant Air France A340 in my tiny CRJ in CVG. The first time I saw it, I stupidly thought it was a 747 because it had 4 engines (I was something like 9 at the time). It sure will be missed, however it might help Delta further with their CVG-CDG route.

It will also be nice to see another 744 in ATL next summer!!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Concorde001
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
I'm curious to see how this will do; from experience I think it's going to be an uphill battle.

New York has SIX daylight flights to London!

VS0026 JFK LHR 07:35 21:15 A346
BA0172 JFK LHR 08:00 19:45 772
BA0186 EWR LHR 08:15 20:15 763
VS0018 EWR LHR 08:20 20:00 A346
AA0142 JFK LHR 08:30 20:25 772
BA0178 JFK LHR 09:00 20:40 744

Surely AF can make 1 flight to CDG work? Or are the LHR/CDG markets very different? Both are very important international cities.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6):
New York has SIX daylight flights to London!

The problem with continental Europe is that you're one time zone farther, making the departure/arrival times that much uglier. You can't get much connecting opportunity on the NYC end, and you're limited on the CDG end to a few late night African and Asian departures which I don't think are driving a lot of volume. Therefore I imagine you have to rely heavily on local traffic between NYC and CDG, and that local traffic overwhelmingly prefers a redeye given the absence of a daylight flight until now.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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chrisnh
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:39 am

Good to see the pending increase in lift for Boston. Since it works on the LHR route for AA and BA, why wouldn't AF try a daylight flight from BOS-CDG? Maybe a small A330 in the morning and the 747-400 at night?

Chris in NH
 
Avianca
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6):
Surely AF can make 1 flight to CDG work? Or are the LHR/CDG markets very different? Both are very important international cities.

yeah the proble, AF will not offer any european conections for the flight, I think they are just offering some conections to africa...

lets see
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Humberside
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6):
Or are the LHR/CDG markets very different? Both are very important international cities.

LON-NYC is a larger market than Paris-NYC as shown by the number of flights in both the markets. London is a very important financial centre (more important than Paris I think) and there are stronger political and historical links between London/UK and New York/US than Paris/France and New York/US.
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
flyguy1
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:59 am

Assuming at least one hour for connection time, these are the most logical connection destinations one could get from JFK. LBV, LOS, DXB, and JNB., the is from checking the flight status for tonights CDG departures. East bound to JFK should do well, as passengers can connect off later European flights into CDG.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:09 am

I am really happy about that new CDG-JFK flight.

Please check this old thread for more info
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2730474

I am curious to see which one of the legs will make more money : the CDG-JFK leg, because it is leaving later than 6.55pm (current departure time for last CDG-JFK flight), meaning business travellers will be able to work a real full day in Paris before heading to the airport, or the CDG-JFK leg, because a lot of ppl will like to fly during the day to minimize jetlag or to get quicker connections to Asia/Africa that way...

Anyway, it is great that AF innovates like that on the France-USA market.

HB-IWC, no news on potential new cities for the summer 2007 ? I assume they may want to wait a little more before announcing them ? Or would they already be in the first draft of the schedule if there were any ?

A.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
The loads were fine but I couldn't tell you anything about the yields. I can guess that the yields were crap since A) it's CVG, B) the daily local demand between CVG and CDG could probably fit on a CRJ with seats to spare, and C) the rest of the traffic that fills up the plane is competing with other airlines and a handful of hubs in the Midwest alone.

You honestly have no clue.

As DL has restructured CVG, there aren't as many frequencies on the domestic flights thatwould feed the int'l flights so AF will probably abandon is CVG flight because DL has taken the best connecting flights.

CVGCDG has consistently been DL's highest yielding and load flights to Paris - and on their entire transatlantic system. CVG not only has a pretty high percentage of business traffic for a city of its size but it also still provides service to over 100 cities; even on a directional basis there are dozens of cities that connect to/from DL and AF's CVG int'l flights.

AF is not happy with all of DL's int'l growth - much of which is to routes that overfly CDG. Problem is that NW and CO are doing the same things to AMS and CDG too. DL is also reducing some of its own capacity to CDG because of moving its India flights to JFK nonstop and downgauging as the 777s are sent to Asia. Much of AF's growth in North America is to try to keep capacity up where its US partners are cutting. Unfortunately for AF, there will be even more of this as nonstops to all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia make European hubs much less necessary.
 
jfk777
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:44 am

New York is the most important USA market for AF, after so many evening flight to CDG an A332 in the morning can work. As previously mentioned on this board, AF has many evening connections to Africa. This couls provide seemless JFK to J'berg service.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
You honestly have no clue.

Why do people on this site insist on being such jerks? I said I guessed CVG's yields weren't good.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
CVG not only has a pretty high percentage of business traffic for a city of its size

It's a large percentage of a very small local demand that is on par with BUF, MEM, and TUS.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
it also still provides service to over 100 cities; even on a directional basis there are dozens of cities that connect to/from DL and AF's CVG int'l flights.

How many of those are unique city pairs that aren't also served over CLE, DTW, or ORD?

[Edited 2006-10-30 00:58:43]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
GECMD11
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:56 am

Glad to see some B744 action in ATL....
 
highflyer9790
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:54 am

I also heard that AF would send a 744 to BOS for the winter season?
121
 
jfk69
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:26 am

Is this a bit early to announce a summer schedule or is this right on par with the other airlines?
 
cba
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:12 am

Will the time frequencies be the same for the IAH route? This summer they had the regular 772 leaving in the afternoon, and a 332 later at night. Now, they've swapped, having the 772 leaving at 1030 and the 332 leaving in the afternoon. I'd think that they'd want more seats in the earlier flight, as it connects to more destinations. I suppose that demand for first and business seats must be higher in the evening.

Also, why have Air France and Continental yet to codeshare? They are both Skyteam, yet I have still yet to see any signs of cooperation. Can I even get OnePass for flying AF?
 
LawnDart
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
You honestly have no clue.



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
Unfortunately for AF, there will be even more of this as nonstops to all of Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia make European hubs much less necessary.

Who honestly has no clue?

European hubs will continue to be just as necessary as there will always be small and mid-size cities in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South Asia that will never warrant non-stop service to the United States. Most of these cities will be of higher yield than the non-stop services, as well, since there is less competition.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting Cba (Reply 19):
Can I even get OnePass for flying AF?

I don't know why they don't codeshare, but the answer to this one is definitely yes. The same holds for all SkyTeam airlines and mileage programs.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
kiramakora
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
In India, Air France is downgrading Delhi services from the B744 this winter to the A343. Mumbai continues to receive the B772, while Bangalore sees a continuation of daily services with A332. Chennai, the airline's latest addition in India, is continuing to see thrice weekly A343 ops.

I am not surprised by this. While all airline are upgrading, AF downgrades DEL and holds most constant. AF reputation in India is abysmal especially amongst high-yielding pax.
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting Kiramakora (Reply 22):
AF reputation in India is abysmal especially amongst high-yielding pax.

However they just grew from 2 cities to 4 cities. I don't understand your point.

Quoting HighFlyer9790 (Reply 17):
I also heard that AF would send a 744 to BOS for the winter season?

Answer below!

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
This winter, AF is deploying a daily B744 to BOS.
When I doubt... go running!
 
kiramakora
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 23):
However they just grew from 2 cities to 4 cities. I don't understand your point.

MAA was picked primarily due to DL's lack of aircraft + subsequent cancellation + direct to BOM. At the current market growth levels in India, going from 2 to 4 cities is not a significant accomplishment. DEL/BOM generates tons of HYPAX and given market growth is 20-50%, one could have expected better capacity from AF. IMO, this was not the case as HYPAX in India do not prefer AF/transiting through CDG.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:25 pm

Thank you for the info!

However:

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
between its CDG homebase and New York's main JFK airport. The return portion on this roundtrip will operate as the airline's first daylight transatlantic flight

The first daylight eastbound transatlantic flight.  Wink

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
Los Angeles will continue to see the A343 deployed on the 4 weekly Papeete rotations. This is a continuation of the current winter schedule. An A343 is flown is flown in weekly to assure these four Tahiti roundtrips.

What do you mean with the last sentence?

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
China is an increasingly important market for Air France and the airline will once again boost services there to twice daily with B777.

I guess you are talking about PEK here?

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 18):
Is this a bit early to announce a summer schedule or is this right on par with the other airlines?

Why would it be, since next summer is already bookable?
AY and ANA rock!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:56 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 25):
What do you mean with the last sentence?

Air France flies every Thursday an A343 CDG LAX which subsequently operates four weekly roundtrips between LAX and PPT. On Monday, this aircraft returns back to Paris from LAX. As such, there is only one weekly A343 flight in each direction between Paris and Los Angeles, as Air France positions the aircraft for the Tahiti roundtrips. Until last week, Air France operated thrice weekly CDG LAX PPT roundtrip services.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 25):
I guess you are talking about PEK here?

Yes, I was refering to PEK. I apparently forgot to mention the destination. PEK goes twice daily, whereas PVG operated 10 weekly with AF B772 in addition to the daily roundtrip operated by China Eastern. Guangzhou remains at thrice weekly A343, but also has additional codeshare flights operated by China Southern.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 26):
Air France flies every Thursday an A343 CDG LAX which subsequently operates four weekly roundtrips between LAX and PPT. On Monday, this aircraft returns back to Paris from LAX. As such, there is only one weekly A343 flight in each direction between Paris and Los Angeles, as Air France positions the aircraft for the Tahiti roundtrips. Until last week, Air France operated thrice weekly CDG LAX PPT roundtrip services.

Oh now I see, thanks!

So actually there is no more direct one-stop CDG-PPT service on AF since CDG-LAX is now AF74 and LAX-PPT is AF674 - two separate flights. (I know that this doesn't actually mean a change from a passengers perspective since everyone had to disembark and clear immigration at LAX even on the direct PPT flight.)
AY and ANA rock!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 27):
So actually there is no more direct one-stop CDG-PPT service on AF since CDG-LAX is now AF74 and LAX-PPT is AF674 - two separate flights.

That is right, although on Thursday there is a same plane service from Paris as the A343 is flown in as CDG LAX and then continues as LAX PPT, albeit with a different flight number. Same goes on Mondays from PPT, when the A343 continues back home to CDG. On Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, there is a change of plane in LAX, as all other CDG LAX CDG services are operated with 3-class B777 aircraft.
 
B707Stu
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:08 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 10):
LON-NYC is a larger market than Paris-NYC as shown by the number of flights in both the markets. London is a very important financial centre (more important than Paris I think) and there are stronger political and historical links between London/UK and New York/US than Paris/France and New York/US.

The westbound trip will certainly do well, though expect, with delays of 45 minutes or more to park at T4. The connecting factor will be great for a 2100 departure with flights that arrive by 2000. Don't have much hope in your bags making it too though...

As to the eastbound JFK-CDG morning departure. Let's not forget Concorde operated at 8 to 9am for most of its run. If they do well westbound, which they will, and fill the front cabins eastbound, which they will, it'll be a money maker, even with just R/D traffic. Of course the ABJ, and other connecting traffic won't hurt either.
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:47 pm

Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6):
New York has SIX daylight flights to London!



Quoting Concorde001 (Reply 6):
Surely AF can make 1 flight to CDG work? Or are the LHR/CDG markets very different? Both are very important international cities.

The market is different and the "potential" on the line too.
I remember a few years ago, when we were asking to AF's managers why AF had only 1 Daily Concorde flight CDG-JFK-CDG when BA could operate two flights, their answer was :
"LHR-JFK-LHR has a capacity of 12 millions PAX/Year (all airlines considered)
CDG-JFK-LHR has a capacity of just over 4 millions PAX/year".
Figures are probably higher by now, but the proportion must be identical.

Moreover, LHR has another advantage over CDG : a shorter flight from JFK and only 5 hours difference , when Paris has 6 hours difference... That's an important factor in a schedule.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
AF will not offer any european conections for the flight, I think they are just offering some conections to africa...

Europe : SVO

Africa : PHC, JNB, BGF, JIB, LOS, LAD, SSG, NDJ, ... Middle East and Asia : DXB, HKG, NRT, SIN, NOU, PVG.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 30):
NRT

JFK-CDG-NRT is 43.6% longer than the non-stop JFK-NRT. Not very attractive!
AY and ANA rock!
 
haggis79
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 29):
The westbound trip will certainly do well, though expect, with delays of 45 minutes or more to park at T4

actually, AF uses T1 @JFK, not T4... unless they've changed that in the last couple of weeks...
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
cgnnrw
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
Washington's Dulles airport will receive an eclectic mix of Air France aircraft next year, when the airline will deploy the B772, B773 and A332 on its three daily flights. No major changes are planned for Chicago (daily A343), Houston (B772 + A332), Detroit (A332), Philadelphia (A343), Miami (B744) and San Francisco (B744 for the summer, up from A343 in winter). Los Angeles will continue to see the A343 deployed on the 4 weekly Papeete rotations. This is a continuation of the current winter schedule. An A343 is flown is flown in weekly to assure these four Tahiti roundtrips.

Nice to see AF is doing so well on the PHL route that it will be upgraded to an A340. This is also interesting because PHL is not a Skyteam hub with limited connections on Skyteam members. Hmmmmm...maybe other int'l carriers will take a closer look at PHL.
A330 man.
 
goldorak
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Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:01 pm

Do you have any information regarding European network summer schedule ?
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:49 am

HB-IWC.

AF344/345 YULCDG will be upgauged to B744 COI from 11Jun to 10Aug. That is a massive capacity gain.
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 35):
AF344/345 YULCDG will be upgauged to B744 COI from 11Jun to 10Aug. That is a massive capacity gain.

Are you sure that this flight will be upgraded from a B773ER to a B744 COI ?

If it's the case, that will be for the last season, as this "COI Configuration" (17J/457Y) will be progressively removed after Feb.2007 and the 5 aircraft* in this configuration will be modified again and reconfigured into the "Classic" 40J/396Y

*
F-GITA, F-GITB, F-GITC, F-GITD, F-GITF.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:48 am

My bad.. the first flight is in classic config.
 
HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 35):
AF344/345 YULCDG will be upgauged to B744 COI from 11Jun to 10Aug. That is a massive capacity gain



Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 37):
My bad.. the first flight is in classic config

CDG YUL is seeing quite some variation throughout the summer, but the first flight of the day (AF344/345) is planned with B77W for the most part of the summer. It will also be the only flight offering 3-class service. For the time being, this flight is planned to operate with a classic B744 for a week or three in June only, but reverts to B77W afterwards, from July through October.

The second flight of the day (AF346/347) is planned to operate with B744 for the entire summer, but unlike previous years, I have this flight operating with a classic B744 rather than the COI configuration that was deployed in previous years. It seems that some COI B744s will have been reconfigured by that time because also the Toronto, Boston, Atlanta and Mexico B744 flights are set to operate with a 40J/396Y configuration.

The evening departure, finally, will operate with a combination of A332 and A343 during the entire summer. It will not operate daily for the entire time, but rather start of as a 4 weekly service, and gradually increase to become daily service between June and October.

This is of course the picture at this moment. It is likely that some changes will still take place in the months to come.
 
FlySSC
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 31):
JFK-CDG-NRT is 43.6% longer than the non-stop JFK-NRT. Not very attractive!

Sure ... but the Charms of Air France worth to spend 43,6% more time with us !  Wink
 
jrlander
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:32 am

Any rumors/news on new destinations for 2007?

As a resident of Seattle- I keep hoping that the new frequent flyer relationship with Alaska, and the relationship with NWA will bring an AF flight to SEA-TAC. As it is, the only Skyteam flight to Europe from here is the NWA flight to AMS. My partner uses it for business, but would prefer an AF connection.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15208
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 39):
Sure ... but the Charms of Air France worth to spend 43,6% more time with us !

That Air France je-ne-sais-quoi wears off quickly in Y Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Jrlander (Reply 40):
Any rumors/news on new destinations for 2007?

As a resident of Seattle- I keep hoping that the new frequent flyer relationship with Alaska, and the relationship with NWA will bring an AF flight to SEA-TAC. As it is, the only Skyteam flight to Europe from here is the NWA flight to AMS. My partner uses it for business, but would prefer an AF connection.

For Winter 2007, maybe.
But more likely in 2008.
SEA and DEN have been rumored for a long time, but also PHX, as well as YVR (Not allowed for the moment by the Canadian Gov.)
NAS and SJU also ... as well as PTY & SJO.
REC is Brazil is now more than a rumor.

After CTU (Chengdu/China) went finally to KLM, XIY (Xian) is now also rumored.
 
AF022
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RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
AF005 JFK CDG 0745 2100 - daily A332

I'm crazy about this flight because of connection possibilities to JNB, for example.

AF will be able to connect to:
PVG
BKK
SGN
HAN
HKG
SIN
PNR
PHC
BGF
NDJ
SSG
LBV
JNB
LAD
NRT
DXB
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18822
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 25):
However:

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
between its CDG homebase and New York's main JFK airport. The return portion on this roundtrip will operate as the airline's first daylight transatlantic flight

The first daylight eastbound transatlantic flight.

Actually it's not AF's first eastbound daylight transatlantic flight. Appears everyone has forgotten about Concorde. AF also operated a daylight flight JFK-CDG with a B707 for a while in the mid-1970s. I remember that flight as I flew on it once. I think they dropped it when Concorde finally went into service. The 707 daylight light had a special marketing name and the inflight product was somewhat upgraded, including in Y class. If not mistaken they didn't sell the center seats.
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:57 pm

The 744 next summer is great for BOS, but the new schedule sucks. The second flight which has always departed between 19:30 and 20:00 is pushed back to 23:15. That'll be good for passengers with later connecting flights but will suck for BOSAF staff who will now see their operation stretched out from 15:00 (when the first flight arrives) to around 23:30 (when the second plane takes off). That alone is 8,5 hours, not including the fact that check-in and ticketing opens well before the first plane even lands.

We'll get the 744 in BOS but very few will ever see it.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 44):
Appears everyone has forgotten about Concorde.

You are right, of course.  Smile I just thought we were discussing the current schedule... Wink
AY and ANA rock!
 
HB-IWC
Topic Author
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:46 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 43):
AF will be able to connect to:
BKK
SGN
HAN

AF has rescheduled CDG-BKK-SGN/HAN services to depart Paris earlier in the evening, around 7.30pm so there are no connections possible between the new JFK CDG daylight operation and the Thailand and Vietnam markets.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15208
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting AF022 (Reply 43):
AF will be able to connect to:

Excluding markets that already have a nonstop, that adds up to a whopping 96 pax per day in 2005; when you exclude JNB it drops down to 1.8. Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: AF Summer 2007 - 744 To ATL, 6th JFK And Others

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It's a large percentage of a very small local demand that is on par with BUF, MEM, and TUS.

And those cities have how much int'l service?

Oh, and saying that you "guessed" that the yields were "crap" will get you dissed no matter how badly you try to back pedal. If you want to guess, why don't you phrase it something like "I would guess that yields might not be so great because.... but if somebody else knows differently, feel free to jump in." acting like an agressive know it all when you are dead wrong will do nothing to help you build friendships or get anyone who does know to provide you with information.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
How many of those are unique city pairs that aren't also served over CLE, DTW, or ORD?

doesn't really matter since there is obviously a market for DL to carry that traffic through CVG and they quite well doing it. FCO and AMS are undoubtedly Skyteam related but DL has operated LGW, FRA, and CDG for years before Skyteam was ever formed. You might also want to check out the amount of large global companies that are in the Cincy tri-state area.

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 20):
European hubs will continue to be just as necessary as there will always be small and mid-size cities in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and South Asia that will never warrant non-stop service to the United States. Most of these cities will be of higher yield than the non-stop services, as well, since there is less competition.

European airlines are feeling the impact of US airlines overflying European hubs on nonstop flights to Africa, Middle East, Eastern Europe, and S. Asia. Why do you think DL is so aggressive in expanding to the region but because they have had partnerships with airlines that have had strong presence to those areas and there is very little US airline service to those regions.

Of course there are smaller cities in Europe but remember that CO and DL are both expanding at a breakneck pace to put service in many of those cities that used to require a connection. When CO and DL combined have service to half a dozen or more cities in a European country, you have picked the biggest amount of traffic that could connect over Europe.

Keep in mind also that US airlines have costs that are 25-40% lower than the European network carriers and they have something to worry about - more aggressive US airlines with much lower costs that are overflying their hubs. you can convince yourself there is no threat but the European airlines are telling the US airlines they are indeed concerned.