hardiwv
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Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:13 pm

Emirates announced today that it will start DXB-GRU direct late in 2007, stated Nigel Page, Emirates VP. The flight will be operated with the B777-200LR. Flight duration is expected to be 14 hrs. The flight will allow for onward connections to Asia, China, Middle East and Africa. Emirates will also open its first office in Latin America in Sao Paulo early in 2007.

This puts an end on speculation that Emirates was looking at flying DXB-GIG or DXB-EZE for its first operations in the region. It seems difficult to compete with the high yielding market of GRU for the time being.

Emirates announcement comes short after Qatar Airways also announced DOG-GRU flights direct a few weeks ago RE: Qatar Confirms GRU-DOH Nonstop (by MainMAN Sep 21 2006 in Civil Aviation)?searchid=2998357&s=DOH-GRU#ID2998357
Qatar already opened its office in Sao Paulo and has a cooperation agreement with TAM. Qatar's flights to GRU will also start late 2007. Qatar informed that it will not start service to GRU earlier because of aircraft shortage.

It seems 2007 will see a major boost of air service between Brazil and the Middle East as Qatar and Emirates are in the race to serve GRU first. The last Middle Eastern airline to operate in Brazil was MEA which connected GRU and BEY via ABJ. Both Emirates and Qatar are on the race to capture the increasing traffic between Brazil and China/Asia. Air China will start direct flights BEI-GRU via MAD on 10 December 2006 twice weekly.

Rgs,
 
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LTU932
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:14 pm

When is EK going to take delivery of their 77Ls.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:25 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
This puts an end on speculation that Emirates was looking at flying DXB-GIG or DXB-EZE for its first operations in the region. It seems difficult to compete with the high yielding market of GRU for the time being.

I have never believed the stories that EK would go to GIG or EZE first. GRU is and remains the number one market in the region, and that is not about to change overnight.

With the opening of direct Brazil flights by both EK and QR next year, European carriers, which have traditionally captured large chunks of the market between Asia, the Indian Subcontinent and the Middle East and South America are about to see their market share dented.

The same phenomenon is happening for the North Atlantic market where the likes of BA, LH, AF and KL are looking at an increasing erosion of their once large market share for flights between Africa, the Middle East and the Subcontinent and destinations in North America because of an ever increasing number of nonstop flights.
 
behramjee
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:26 pm

EK will kill Air China on the GRU-China route as they would be flying daily + much better inflight product compared to CAs B 763s. Air China only has the convenience factor as their advantage.

EK has the potential to do well on this route in all cabin classes as it will time its flights to connect conveniently both ways to India, China, Japan, SIN, BKK, HKG and the all important oil markets of the Arab world. I wonder though who EK will interline with on the Brazil domestic sectors...TAM or GOL?
 
XA744
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:38 pm

It is very interesting to see how Brazil is deiversyfing its air links with the rest of the world. I wish Mexico had the capacity to develop such an aggressive strategy as well.

The city of Sao Paulo and area of influence in southern Brazil have dramatically increased their international presence very fast. Congratulations for such a successful policy !!!

Best regards
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
PPVRA
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:47 pm

I wonder if EK will sign something with RG since QR signed with TAM. . . then again Ocean Air could be good enough too.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
incitatus
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:04 am

With limited connections at the Qatar end, Qatar will have a very hard time competing with Emirates. If the price of oil stays high, we can count on the Qatar service continuing.  Wink
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RayChuang
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 am

Remember, Sao Paolo is to Brazil what New York City is to the USA--not the country's Capitol, but its primary business center. That's why you see a lot of international flights out of GRU to worldwide destinations.
 
mk777
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 am

Is EK going to announce DXB-IAD ever?
come fly with me
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):
Air China on the GRU-China route

That route has got to be total politically backed nonsense anyway. There's no way two weekly frequencies in a high CASM aircraft over such a long distance could make any money.

[Edited 2006-10-30 17:45:42]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:39 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):

The same phenomenon is happening for the North Atlantic market where the likes of BA, LH, AF and KL are looking at an increasing erosion of their once large market share for flights between Africa, the Middle East and the Subcontinent and destinations in North America because of an ever increasing number of nonstop flights.

This is exactly what Boeing was saying about "point-to-point" services..it just isn't about IND-CDG, but routes such as these...

Once Air India and/or IT starts nonstop service form India to The Bay Area, look for these carriers to lose more service..as a lot of pax use European Carriers (especially BA/VS) to transfer to India/Pakistan...

The same holds true with the aforementioned routes stated above...

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):

EK has the potential to do well on this route in all cabin classes as it will time its flights to connect conveniently both ways to India, China, Japan, SIN, BKK, HKG and the all important oil markets of the Arab world. I wonder though who EK will interline with on the Brazil domestic sectors...TAM or GOL?

I also think cargo will play a big route on this also...

We finally see where EK will start using their -200LR's....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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Flying Belgian
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
The last Middle Eastern airline to operate in Brazil was MEA which connected GRU and BEY via ABJ

When was this effective ? Which aircraft was on this route ?

When is EK due to receive its first 772LR ?

Thanks,


FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Mk777 (Reply 8):
Is EK going to announce DXB-IAD ever?

I think UA would be more likely to start IAD-DXB than EK. Of the markets Ive heard for their next US exansion, IAD wasnt one of them. Ive heard: LAX, ORD, IAH, and SFO. Probably not to all of them, but maybe we'll see service to one of them soon. My guess is the the next service will probably be on the west coast, and Ill be floored if SFO gets chosen over LAX.
It is what it is...
 
Dreamflight767
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:12 am

I've been waiting for SFO for years now. I've given up hope. Why is EK so slow to expand in the U.S.? I'm sure they have enough equipment.
 
A332
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 13):
I've been waiting for SFO for years now. I've given up hope. Why is EK so slow to expand in the U.S.? I'm sure they have enough equipment.

Obviously there are much better markets with more profitability available... or EK would already be there.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 10):
This is exactly what Boeing was saying about "point-to-point" services..it just isn't about IND-CDG, but routes such as these...

Once Air India and/or IT starts nonstop service form India to The Bay Area, look for these carriers to lose more service..as a lot of pax use European Carriers (especially BA/VS) to transfer to India/Pakistan...

The same holds true with the aforementioned routes stated above...

You are absolutely right. Every addition of such an 'exotic' hub to point flight represents, in a way, an additional nail in the coffin of mega interhub flights. And we have by far not seen the end yet. It is interesting to see how the likes of KLM and NW are trying to counter these new nonstop markets by finetuning their existing hub and spoke model and offering optimized connectivity.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:34 am

Why isn´t anything yet on EK website? Is it official?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 16):
Why isn´t anything yet on EK website? Is it official?

Mr. Nigel was in Rio during last week and i have the opportunity to meet him and keep a very interesting discussion concerning to EK plans.

First of all, they do not keep any plane available for this flight yet, A380 program delays as well as the high demand over several routes postpone their Brazilian plans.

Second, they decided to begin with Sao Paulo, but they do not change their mind about one flight to Sao Paulo and one flight to Rio. They are still researching Rio market, but they already know Sao Paulo will come first, but they do not have dates, frequencies as they do not keep the planes. But they also know the problems they will face (delays, lack of gates, lack of space for a good lounge and comfort at the airport).

They know the power of their product, and keep no fear about any other competitor.

And i already post a comment on this at another thread " Brazilian Civil Aviation News " among several other conversations i made during the last 7 days with airlines executives.

I can say and post it's official as i heard GRU-DXB from a EK executive.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
AF454GRU
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:08 am

No matter which "world class" airline can fly into GRU or even GIG.
But as long as Brazilian Airport Authorities Infraero and DGAC do not take the right decision in order to improve facilities - most to GRU, airlines will face lack of gates, lack of counters, lounges... better runways and wide terminals.
Sometimes I thik they're rather interested to launch Duty Free shops than anything...
Someone who faced GRU arriving from Int'l earling morning or leaving to Int'l in the evening know what I'm saying. Immigration and customs at GRU are a joke!
Anyway, it's great to see Emirates and Qatar landing there!
How long for Qantas and Virgin Atlantic?
It would be nice to get back Royal Air Maroc even for a weekly GRU-CMN and MEA for a GRU-BEY via Africa or Europe!
Good old days when VP served ATH via CMN, Iraqi Airways to Baghdad via Lisbon and Amman and Aeroflot to MOW via Sal and TUN...
 
AF022
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting AF454GRU (Reply 18):
Someone who faced GRU arriving from Int'l earling morning or leaving to Int'l in the evening know what I'm saying. Immigration and customs at GRU are a joke!

Agree completely. I avoid GRU like the plague because the airport is so awful. GIG is vastly better.
 
tomascubero
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Air China will start direct flights BEI-GRU via MAD on 10 December 2006 twice weekly.

It is not direct, they are routing BEI-MAD-GRU with a 763ER, which is un-capable of BEI-GRU direct I think.

This is great news for Latin America and of course Brazil. Its always great to have competition on routes, QR and EK will be very close on this one and this is great news for Brazil, I already sense an A380 going down there in the next two years from the Middle East...

I hope EK would expand to upper Latin America, possibly BOG and I wish SJO Big grin.

Cheers!
Tomas.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:16 am

If this does good ahead EK will serve every part of the globe.
North & South America, Australia, Asia, Europe and Africa. The EK juggernaut continues

Quoting AF454GRU (Reply 18):
How long for Qantas and Virgin Atlantic?

I don't think you will see QF there anytime soon but maybe JQ international.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 20):
It is not direct, they are routing BEI-MAD-GRU with a 763ER,

It is direct, since "direct" does not necessarily mean nonstop. As far as I know the flight will be with a 767-200?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tomascubero
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
It is direct, since "direct" does not necessarily mean nonstop

Right, that would mean that it stops but it continues with the same flight number and the stop is actually a technical stop?

Yes, I did read about the 200 being sent but at the end of the post, they said that Amadeus was wrong and it actually is a 763, but of course the 762 might bump in sometime.

Another question, is the 763ER able to fly BEI-MAD non-stop, this is probably a very large strech for the 763ER...

Cheers!
Tomas.
 
jfk777
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:47 am

I'm surprised its only 14 hours, I thought it would be 17hours. Sao Paulo is the natural place to go to South America first since its got Rio, CCS and BOG to the North, EZE & SCL to the south and west. Its right in the middle of the east coast of South America. Great news for Emirates and good luck, can't wait to see the 777LR.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:47 am

According to wikipedia.org....

"The Arab Brazilian population is estimated at about 10 million people most of them tracing their roots back to Lebanese and Syrian immigrants who arrived in Brazil in the early 1900s."

"Most Arab immigrants in Brazil were Christians. However, after the 1970s, many Muslim Lebanese immigrated, and the current Muslim population of Brazil is predominantly of recent Lebanese origin. There are also Brazilian Jews who are or whose ancestors were immigrants from Lebanon, Syria and North Africa"

that's quite a large number...

"Most Asian Brazilians have roots in East Asia, most of them Japanese. The first Japanese immigrants arrived in Brazil in 1908. Until the 1950s, more than 250 thousand Japanese immigrated to Brazil. Nowadays, the Japanese-Brazilian population is estimated at 1.5 million people. It is, by far, the largest ethnic Japanese population outside of Japan."


Looks like EK has a potential large market it can tap...
"Up the Irons!"
 
KLM685
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting XA744 (Reply 4):
It is very interesting to see how Brazil is deiversyfing its air links with the rest of the world. I wish Mexico had the capacity to develop such an aggressive strategy as well.

I agree Mi Estimado, though Mexico is strong Latin market just as Brazil is, the obvious question is why aren't we getting tons of international traffic?

The first answers of course go to the strategy that the city of Sao Paulo has been moving in to bring all kinds of traffic, though it's regional position is ideal for connections to South America.

Also, like it or not, GRU is much of a bigger aiport in terms of capacity, which MEX unfortunately does not have. Even with the new T2, MEX will be just taking an aspirin when bigger problems are a concern.

IN order to bring carriers like EK into MEX, they need to follow a joint strategy with the Mexican airlines in order to feed those flights with US population, Central America, etc... MEX needs to become a much stronger hub in terms of international traffic in order to bring more and more carriers.

Cheers!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:25 am

Are they getting another today?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE777

M
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 26):
The first answers of course go to the strategy that the city of Sao Paulo has been moving in to bring all kinds of traffic, though it's regional position is ideal for connections to South America.

Also, like it or not, GRU is much of a bigger aiport in terms of capacity, which MEX unfortunately does not have. Even with the new T2, MEX will be just taking an aspirin when bigger problems are a concern.

I believe the first reason is that GRU is far from US, and MEX is not. Also Sao Paulo keep 2 (overcrowded) airports.

For who don't know since last week we are facing long delays on GRU, CGH, BSB (and due to this on almost all brazilian airports) because after Gol 1907 accident, ATC nowadays wants to control only up to 14 planes (and there are rumors they were taking care of 20, 21 and even 22). Almost ALL departures from GRU, CGH and BSB face 1 to 3 hours delay.

Quoting AF454GRU (Reply 18):
Someone who faced GRU arriving from Int'l earling morning or leaving to Int'l in the evening know what I'm saying. Immigration and customs at GRU are a joke!
Anyway, it's great to see Emirates and Qatar landing there!
How long for Qantas and Virgin Atlantic?

Agree 100% with you. Qantas probably will announce something during the next 1 to 2 years. Virgin Atlantic keep their eyes on GIG at the last update given by ANAC, but who knows !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Gemuser
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 23):
Right, that would mean that it stops but it continues with the same flight number and the stop is actually a technical stop?

Its a "technical" stop if the airline does not have ANY traffic rights at the stop.
Its a "transit" stop if the airline has traffic rights at the stop.

In this case I would assume Air China would have traffic rights PEK-MAD, even if does not have fifth freedom rights MAD-GUR, so this is a "transit" stop.

Gemuser
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fspilot747
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:55 am

I can't believe you can go DXB to GRU nonstop but I can't get from LAX to anywhere in Brazil nonstop  worried 
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting AF454GRU (Reply 18):
How long for Qantas

No. QF tired the South American market a while back flying to EZE and it didn't work. The only aircraft suitable for the mission is the 744 due to ETOPS so that puts alot of pressure to sell so many seats. Also, the aircraft couldn't do it non stop it had to fly via AKL which complicated things even more for passengers.

In the end, they quit South America. I personally think some sort of deal was struck between QF and LA.

I think NZ will be in South America before QF will. Auckland is much better positioned for connecting flights to Asia, Australia and the Pacific from Brazil.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 29):
In this case I would assume Air China would have traffic rights PEK-MAD, even if does not have fifth freedom rights MAD-GUR, so this is a "transit" stop.

They have rights for both legs, MAD-GRU and MAD-PEK.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 30):
I can't believe you can go DXB to GRU nonstop but I can't get from LAX to anywhere in Brazil nonstop

Ocean Air has plans to fly LAX-GRU non stop, but not daily. Some days will be thru BOG.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:54 pm

I think EK will take delievery in 2008 or late 07. If not a 200LR, a 200ER can do it w/ restrictions.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
NWAatNGO
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:24 pm

Interesting to see what the times are for this flight and how they line up with the flight from NGO. Because of the large Brazilian population in the Nagoya, Central Japan region, and the need to get a transit visa for the US, a connection through DXB should make it much easier for those traveling between Japan and Brazil.

Very interesting and glad to see it happen.

NWAatNGO
 
EddieDude
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:06 pm

This is great news for GRU and for Brazil in general. It is good to see that there will be soon not one but two direct links to the Middle East! I wonder if a resurgent RG would be interested in codesharing or otherwise cooperating with EK.

Quoting XA744 (Reply 4):
I wish Mexico had the capacity to develop such an aggressive strategy as well.

As Felipe correctly explained, MEX' proximity to the U.S. and, therefore, the hubs of U.S. carriers, makes it less likely that MEX will receive more international services. Of course there is more demand for trans-Atlantic service (and even trans-Pacific service) than the offer of seats by European carriers and AM (and in the case of trans-Pacific service, the offer of seats by JL and AM). However, a big chunk of that demand is well served by U.S. legacies.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
tomascubero
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 29):
Its a "technical" stop if the airline does not have ANY traffic rights at the stop.
Its a "transit" stop if the airline has traffic rights at the stop.

Thanks for clearing that up mate  Wink.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 32):
They have rights for both legs, MAD-GRU and MAD-PEK.

That's good, they should have if not they would be loosing quite a lot of pax, isn't this the only direct flight from China to Madrid, I've never seen a Chinese aircraft at MAD before, only Thai would be the closest...

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 32):
Ocean Air has plans to fly LAX-GRU non stop, but not daily. Some days will be thru BOG.

Sorry for my ignorance, but is Ocean Air going to be one of those Euopean to Latin America airlines, like NM is, if you say they will be transiting BOG then could there be any chance of seeing them at SJO, I know its a bit far but you never know!

Cheers!
Tomas.
 
BA
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:02 pm

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 11):
When was this effective ? Which aircraft was on this route ?

MEA started flights to São Paulo in October 1995. Flights were operated once weekly (I believe on Sundays) via Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire on 747-200Bs.

Here are two photos in São Paulo:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jose Francisco Gouvea V. Filho
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Normando Carvalho Jr.


In January 1998, a new board was appointed headed by a new CEO, Mohammad El-Hout, who launched a major restructuring program which involved cutting several low-yielding unprofitable destination of which São Paulo was one of them.

MEA's 3 747-200Bs were sold by early 1998 and thereafter, the route was briefly operated on A310s before it was discontinued.

The route along with Sydney were expensive to operate and were low-yielding and at the time, MEA was an overstaffed inefficiently run airline with high costs still trying to recover from the effects of the 15-year Lebanese Civil War.

MEA continued to serve Abidjan and now serves it twice weekly (one flight via Lagos, the other via Lagos and Accra) on A330-200s.

Two years ago, MEA revisited the possibility of returning to São Paulo, but concluded that they would incurr losses for the first three years of operation before any profits could be realized, so they stated that they would return only if the government agreed to subsidize MEA's losses, which the government did not agree to do.

However, with MEA headed towards SkyTeam next year, they are now reconsidering reviving some long-haul routes in a few years to come. They are currently studying the 787 and A350.

I could possibly see MEA returning to São Paulo in 5 years.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:12 pm

I bet both EK and QR will do great on KIX/NGO-DXB/DOH-GRU since there are no non-stop Japan-Brazil flights and the only direct one (on JL) goes via JFK with all the immigration hassle (and visas needed for Brazilians!).

However, neither of the carriers have slots at NRT, only at NGO and KIX...

(There are about 1.5 million ethnic Japanese living in Brazil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilian.)
AY and ANA rock!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 38):

However, neither of the carriers have slots at NRT, only at NGO and KIX...

Nagoya actually has the largest Brazilian community in Japan, so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
a.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Nagoya actually has the largest Brazilian community in Japan, so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

That's true. But the Brazilian community in Japan (250 000) is much smaller than the Japanese community in Brazil (1.5 million) of which a great per centage is located near Sao Paolo -- and the most attractive / the biggest place to visit in Japan is Tokyo area.
AY and ANA rock!
 
hardiwv
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:02 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Second, they decided to begin with Sao Paulo, but they do not change their mind about one flight to Sao Paulo and one flight to Rio.

I posted here many times that EK or QR would serve GRU first. For me there was no doubt about it. Although Rio is the oil capital, it can never compete with the yields generated by Sao Paulo.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
I can say and post it's official as i heard GRU-DXB from a EK executive.

As I said, and you confirmed, GRU-DXB is officially announced. The expectation is that it will start in the second half of 2007.

Now let's see whether EK or QR will land in GRU first. Both are planning to start flights late in 2007. I still think QR will come first - as a side note, this month Brazil signed bilateral with Qatar allowing QR to operate up to 14 weekly flights DOH-Brazil (pax and cargo).

In addition, QR is also ahead of EK because it signed a codeshare agreement with TAM and as I mentioned it already has an operational office in Sao Paulo. The current QR-TAM agreement allows pax to fly GRU-LHR and connect in LHR towards DOH and elsewhere with QR. QR CEO stated that it has not started flights to GRU yet only because of aircraft shortage, but flights will start no later than the second half of 2007.

Quoting AF454GRU (Reply 18):
Immigration and customs at GRU are a joke!

Agree. There are major expansion plans for GRU airport, something long overdue.

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 20):
This is great news for Latin America and of course Brazil. Its always great to have competition on routes, QR and EK will be very close on this one and this is great news for Brazil, I already sense an A380 going down there in the next two years from the Middle East...

After its expansion, GRU will be the only airport in conditions to receive the A380.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 26):
I agree Mi Estimado, though Mexico is strong Latin market just as Brazil is, the obvious question is why aren't we getting tons of international traffic?

As Felipe mentioned, MEX has the pressure of being close to the US and suffers heavy competition from US legacy carriers.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 28):
For who don't know since last week we are facing long delays on GRU, CGH, BSB (and due to this on almost all brazilian airports) because after Gol 1907 accident

GIG also reported at least 2h delays.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 28):
Agree 100% with you. Qantas probably will announce something during the next 1 to 2 years. Virgin Atlantic keep their eyes on GIG at the last update given by ANAC, but who knows !

I dont think QF will land in GRU. As mentioned above, I see NZ coming to GRU in the near future, probably AKL-EZE-GRU with 5th freedom rights EZE-GRU, or perhaps even AKL-GRU nonstop.

As for Virgin Atlantic, again, I expect them to operate LHR-GRU or LHR-GRU-GIG. I doubt they will fly LHR-GIG nonstop. Virgin has the conditions to compete for the high yields of GRU and will not concede to second best GIG. Current loads and yields of BA for GRU are great. VS has an excellent product and can compete with TAM and BA for the money of GRU nonstop market.

Quoting FSPilot747 (Reply 30):
I can't believe you can go DXB to GRU nonstop but I can't get from LAX to anywhere in Brazil nonstop

RG operated LAX-GRU-GIG, and now LP operates LAX-LIM-GRU. OceanAir announced GRU-LAX nonstop for 2007.

Quoting BA (Reply 37):
MEA started flights to São Paulo in October 1995. Flights were operated once weekly (I believe on Sundays) via Abidjan, Côte d'Ivoire on 747-200Bs.

Correct.

Quoting BA (Reply 37):
I could possibly see MEA returning to São Paulo in 5 years.

If QR and EK land in GRU, I dont think any market will be left for MEA.

Rgs,

[Edited 2006-10-31 10:33:07]
 
AF022
Posts: 1638
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 37):
MEA started flights to S?Paulo in October 1995. Flights were operated once weekly (I believe on Sundays) via Abidjan, C?d'Ivoire on 747-200Bs.

I think I remember flights were on Mondays.
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:17 pm

It would be nice if EK could cooperate with MEA on this flight
DXB-BEY-GRU
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 36):
Sorry for my ignorance, but is Ocean Air going to be one of those Euopean to Latin America airlines, like NM is, if you say they will be transiting BOG then could there be any chance of seeing them at SJO, I know its a bit far but you never know!

No need to say sorry, we all are here to change ideas and info. Ocean Air will fly GRU-LAX / LAD / LOS / JNB / LIM. In fact Europe is not included in their first international routes. They also keep domestic routes including POA, FLN, XAP, CWB, GRU, CGH, GIG, BSB, SSA, REC, FOR and JDO.
Their fleet nowadays is 10 (or 12) F100 (they call as Mk28). Future plans includes 2 to 4 763, 2 752 and some additional F100.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 41):
As for Virgin Atlantic, again, I expect them to operate LHR-GRU or LHR-GRU-GIG. I doubt they will fly LHR-GIG nonstop. Virgin has the conditions to compete for the high yields of GRU and will not concede to second best GIG. Current loads and yields of BA for GRU are great. VS has an excellent product and can compete with TAM and BA for the money of GRU nonstop market.

I will bet a beer in AMS with you in june and another in RIO, deal ?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 41):
GIG also reported at least 2h delays

On flights from/to Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and Brasilia. It happens in all other airports but the reason was BSB and SAO ATC.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 41):
I still think QR will come first - as a side note, this month Brazil signed bilateral with Qatar allowing QR to operate up to 14 weekly flights DOH-Brazil (pax and cargo).

QR plans are for a 2x weekly flight in the begining and i believe EK will hurt their plans.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
BA
Posts: 10134
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RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 41):
If QR and EK land in GRU, I dont think any market will be left for MEA.

MEA's decision to fly to GRU would hardly be affected by whether QR and EK fly there.

Very few are going to fly GRU-DXB-BEY or GRU-DOH-BEY.

Right now, the vast majority of those traveling between GRU and BEY fly GRU-CDG-BEY on AF/ME.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
fspilot747
Posts: 3455
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 1999 2:58 am

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 32):
Ocean Air has plans to fly LAX-GRU non stop, but not daily. Some days will be thru BOG.

That'd be great. Never heard of OceanAir, only know that it is part of Avianca?
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting BA (Reply 45):
Right now, the vast majority of those traveling between GRU and BEY fly GRU-CDG-BEY on AF/ME.

If EK provide a free night stop in DXB I am sure many would love to fly EK from South America to Lebanon
By the way,in my last visit to BUE and RIO,I realised that people are very curious about DXB
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 44):
No need to say sorry, we all are here to change ideas and info. Ocean Air will fly GRU-LAX / LAD / LOS / JNB / LIM. In fact Europe is not included in their first international routes. They also keep domestic routes including POA, FLN, XAP, CWB, GRU, CGH, GIG, BSB, SSA, REC, FOR and JDO.
Their fleet nowadays is 10 (or 12) F100 (they call as Mk28). Future plans includes 2 to 4 763, 2 752 and some additional F100.

Yes I stand corrected, I completely confused this with the new European startup, Blue Sky with the ex. UA 744's, don't know how really.

Ocean Air is the Brazilian airline with the paint scheme of Avianca, I should've known better!

Cheers!
Tomas.
 
BA
Posts: 10134
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Emirates Announces DXB-GRU B777

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 47):
If EK provide a free night stop in DXB I am sure many would love to fly EK from South America to Lebanon

Well maybe, but only if they offer attractive fares.

My point being is it is quite rare for passengers to get to their destination by flying passed it by some 2.5-3 hours (DXB and DOH are about 2.5-3 hours southeast of Beirut) and then fly back to get to their destination unless amazingly low fares are offered.

While passengers do look for the lowest fares, they also try to find a reasonable route that isn't too long. GRU-DXB/DOH-BEY would be an extremely long journey, not counting the connecting time, that few would be willing to do.

Do give you a current example, the amount of passengers who would fly JFK-DXB-BEY on EK to get from JFK to BEY is going to be quite minimal. The European airlines will always have an advantage when it comes to taking passengers from JFK to BEY and that's how the vast majority of passengers get from JFK to BEY, by flying AF, BA, LH, AZ, etc via their respective European hubs.

My point is that EK/QR launching GRU service is going to have a very minimal impact on the GRU-BEY market. The European airlines will still be eating the cake and would only be challenged if MEA launches its own direct services to GRU.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran