keesje
Posts: 8598
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:58 am

Airbus has published the schedule of the A380's technical route-proving flights ahead of certification, as the aircraft completes hot and high tests in Ethiopia.


14 November: Singapore
15 November: Seoul
18 November: Hong Kong
19 November: Narita
22 November: Guangzhou
23 November: Beijing
23 November: Shanghai
26 November: Johannesburg
28 November: Sydney
29 November: Vancouver

So a serious Transpacific too.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...s+Ethiopia+hot+and+high+tests.html

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
YVRlonghauler
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:05 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This M

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
29 November: Vancouver

 bouncy 

I wonder how come no other North American cities were included in the schedule since it's going to be here already.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This M

Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:55 am

One wonders whether MSN007 will be used again in the flight-test program? It was last used for the evacuation testing in March and has been in the process of being refitted/rewired since then; AFAIK, it hasn't flown since it was ferried to XFW in February:

...MSN007 - the second test A380 to feature a complete cabin - was due to fly the 300h of function and reliability (F&R) or "route-proving" tests required for certification during the fourth quarter in conjunction with customers Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines (SIA). "Because of the production delays, we realised that if we waited for MSN007 to be ready, it would be very difficult to keep certification on schedule for this year," says vice president flight tests Fernando Alonso. "So we've decided to use MSN002..."

...Airbus needs to certificate certain elements of SIA's specification using either MSN007 or the first customer aircraft [MSN003]...
[emphasis added]

http://81.144.183.107/Articles/2006/...force+change+to+route-proving.html

IIRC, at one time MSN007 was scheduled to be re-engined to GP 7200 powerplants to assist in the certification of the Engine Alliance powered model.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This M

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:09 am



...Although the aircraft's cabin is equipped with 474 seats, few of these will be occupied because Airbus says the aircraft will not be operating with representative passenger loads. "The only passengers will be Airbus maintenance and support staff - around 70 on each flight," says Airbus...

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...+off+on+route-proving+flights.html

[Edited 2006-11-06 20:13:44]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5006
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:22 am

EK will have 3 diffrent pax configurations in the 388:

467 to Europe

604 to India subcontinent

.....forgot the third config. but it´s Asia/Australian routes

Micke//  wave 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
astuteman
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
So a serious Transpacific too.

For the uneducated - how far is Sydney-Vancouver?
It looks a long way.  Smile

Regards
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:43 am

I know India does not have any complete 380 ready airports (terminals) as of now, but considering that quite a few airlines may like to operate the 380 to Indian cities, why didn't Airbus include atleast BOM or DEL on this list.....?
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This M

Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 5):
For the uneducated - how far is Sydney-Vancouver?
It looks a long way.

Will the A380 make it SYD-YVR when 100% instead of 15% of the 474 seats in MSN002 are occupied? How about with 555 full seats in the "standard layout?"
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 5):
For the uneducated - how far is Sydney-Vancouver?
It looks a long way.

7757 mi or 12484 km or 6741 nm according to:
http://gc.kls2.com/

[Edited 2006-11-06 21:05:08]
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:07 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
Will the A380 make it SYD-YVR when 100% instead of 15% of the 474 seats in MSN002 are occupied? How about with 555 full seats in the "standard layout?"


Easily. With full passenger load she makes 15000 km or 8000 nm (distance between these cities see above).

[Edited 2006-11-06 21:09:07]
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 5):
For the uneducated - how far is Sydney-Vancouver?
It looks a long way.

Hello, Astuteman.
Distance is 6741 Nm, some 13 hours and some minutes.
There is a site that allows this computation :
the great circle mapper
Cheers !
Contrail designer
 
astuteman
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 8):



Quoting Pihero (Reply 10):

My thanks, Gents.  checkmark 

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
Will the A380 make it SYD-YVR when 100% instead of 15% of the 474 seats in MSN002 are occupied? How about with 555 full seats in the "standard layout?"

Based on the above, presumably the answer is "yes" .

Must admit, I'd expected it to be further than that.
I stand educated.  Smile

Regards
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This M

Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:55 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 11):
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 7):
Will the A380 make it SYD-YVR when 100% instead of 15% of the 474 seats in MSN002 are occupied? How about with 555 full seats in the "standard layout?"

Based on the above, presumably the answer is "yes" .

I'm wondering once prevailing winds are factored-in whether there's any impact on the range/payload calculus? Some on A.net have argued that the A380 will be payload restricted at times on HKG-SFO (6017nm) and MEL-LAX (6883nm) because of unfavorable wind conditions.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
astuteman
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
Some on A.net have argued that the A380 will be payload restricted at times on HKG-SFO (6017nm) and MEL-LAX (6883nm) because of unfavorable wind conditions.

Some indeed have  Smile

Given that the full payload still-air range for the A388 is (IIRC) around 6700 Nm, some limitations on MEL-LAX wouldn't surprise me.

As far as HKG-SFO goes, I still haven't quite worked out in my own head, how a B744, with a max pax, (but zero cargo), still-air range of 7 250Nm MAX (depending on the engines - the RR version is only 7 150Nm, according to this site), supposedly get's tech stops c. 5 times a year, but the A388, with a max pax (but zero cargo) still-air range of 8 000Nm will allegedly fare similarly, at best, but most likely worse than this, on a 6 000Nm sector.
I struggle with believing this scenario, given the data.
Unfortunately, this is a long way from being my area of specialisation.

Strangely, the 748, with a max pax, (but zero cargo) still-air range of (the same) 8 000 Nm will apparrently eat this for breakfast, with plenty to spare (this I can believe  Smile ).

No doubt history will determine the outcome for us  Smile.

Regards
 
Pihero
Posts: 4196
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
I'm wondering once prevailing winds are factored-in whether there's any impact on the range/payload calculus? Some on A.net have argued that the A380 will be payload restricted at times on HKG-SFO (6017nm) and MEL-LAX (6883nm) because of unfavorable wind conditions.

That's the reason one should not take these figures as gospel.
For our example, we can assume that at a cruise mach of .85 and an OAT of -45°c, the true airspeed is exactly 500 kt. That gives us an autonomy of 16 hours with reserves.
regarding the MEL-LAX and HKG-LAX, they are both with favourable prevailing winds (the MEL-LAX in fact will take advantage of both the subtropical and polar jet streams, and the HKG-SFO riding right on the polar jet).
The return flights, though will be against the prevailing winds : the LAX-MEL will be payload restricted when the average head-wind component exceeds 70 kt, needing actual westerlies above 140 kt...quite unlikely outside a freaky situation. The SFO-HKG will require an average head-wind component of more than 120 kt to see some restriction ; in this situation, I expect the airline flight planning department to start a serious wind / altitude trade computation.
Of course, opinions won't change much on this forum, even after this contribution...I do not expect miracles from the usual bashers.

Regards.
Contrail designer
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

RE: A380 Doing Asia, Route Proving Schedule This Month

Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
Given that the full payload still-air range for the A388 is (IIRC) around 6700 Nm, some limitations on MEL-LAX wouldn't surprise me.



Quoting Pihero (Reply 14):
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
I'm wondering once prevailing winds are factored-in whether there's any impact on the range/payload calculus? Some on A.net have argued that the A380 will be payload restricted at times on HKG-SFO (6017nm) and MEL-LAX (6883nm) because of unfavorable wind conditions.

That's the reason one should not take these figures as gospel.

Besides the winds, you also have to factor in these variables:

An airline interior and passenger allowances. These can easily add 20 tonne to the OEW compared to brochure data. This will reduce the range capability by about 900nm.

In service deterioration. Most airlines plan for 3% worse range than the OEM's numbers. In the case of the A380, about 250 nm.

The A380 full pax payload (no cargo) expected range in airline operation would be about 6850nm rather than the 8000 nm brochure number.

Boeing airplanes also suffer from this type of brochure to real world performance change.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aflyingkiwi, Anomalix, Austin787, Baidu [Spider], CHCalfonzo, dennypayne, flydia, Google Adsense [Bot], GSPFlyer, Independence76, infinit, legacyins, MAH4546, Mikey711MN, mrwhistler, mstx44, nikeson13, NolaMD88fan, ordpia, sdh9, wnflyguy and 273 guests