jimyvr
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First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:04 pm

Japan's Wing Daily (on 13OCT06 edition) reported that the first Boeing 787, will be delivered to ANA on April 28, 2008. It doesn't say whether the -3 or -8 will be delivered first.

This is based on Boeing's meeting with authorities regarding 787's type certificate.

Quote:
ボーイング、787のT/C取得で各国当局と会議
 ANAは08年4月28日に787を受領の予定
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:14 pm

I believe this is a repeat (double) post.

But FYI - The first unit delivered will certainly be a 787-8

Almost 4 years to the day of them placing their launch order...
 
ikramerica
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:15 pm

it's hard to believe that in only 18 months it will be delivered, and they haven't assembled 1 yet. If Boeing succeeds on this tight schedule, it will be an amazing feat. I'm not so sure they won't have a delay of a month, but we'll see...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jimyvr
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 1):

Probably it's hiding in the long post somewhere  Silly
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
flybyguy
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:11 pm

I'm hoping Boeing can meet this ambitious timetable. Composite laminates are very finicky materials to be manufactured especially on large scales with complex shapes that act in a load bearing capacity. However, I'm sure that if Boeing is gambling it's commercial division on the 787, it must be quite confident that the 787 will meet minimal delays during prototyping and certification.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
AF022
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Is there a delivery schedule by airline? If ANA is first, who is 2nd & 3rd & 4th? Where will they be used? I assume ANA will use to North America?
 
a380heavy
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
it's hard to believe that in only 18 months it will be delivered, and they haven't assembled 1 yet. If Boeing succeeds on this tight schedule, it will be an amazing feat. I'm not so sure they won't have a delay of a month, but we'll see...



Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 4):
I'm hoping Boeing can meet this ambitious timetable. Composite laminates are very finicky materials to be manufactured especially on large scales with complex shapes that act in a load bearing capacity. However, I'm sure that if Boeing is gambling it's commercial division on the 787, it must be quite confident that the 787 will meet minimal delays during prototyping and certification.

The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

I am amazed that when you consider all of the new materials and innovations earmarked for the 787, that Boeing can say with apparent surity that 28th April 2008 WILL be the delivery date - but good luck to them.
Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
 
RichardPrice
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 6):
The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

The problems at Airbus are because of Airbus, Boeing has an excellent track record of delivering the goods when promised.
 
zvezda
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:46 pm

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 6):
The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

It appears that the root cause of the WhaleJet fiasco (other than the mistaken decision to build it at all) was a failure of IT management. I think there is no doubt that America leads the world in IT management. Boeing have a history of delivering on time. While there is always a possibility that something could go terribly wrong, there is no reason no to believe they will miss the date. Their schedule has room built in for slippage. It's not the case that everything must go exactly according to plan in order for Boeing to deliver on time.
 
jush
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:55 pm

I hope Boeing is smarter than airbus but I'll bet they are cause they had these troubles in the 90ies and hopefully they learned the lesson never to let these things happen again.
Anyway a few months delay is always possible and no big deal if it stays a few.
But if they meet that target... awesome.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
bringiton
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:58 pm

Well its not terribly far off so we should know what happens !! Good luck to boeing and hopefully they can deliver a good product on time and at cost !
 
kiwiinoz
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:01 pm

That's pretty ballsy actually stating the definite date. Did they say what time they would hand it over?
 
zvezda
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:42 pm

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 11):
That's pretty ballsy actually stating the definite date. Did they say what time they would hand it over?

10:37 PST (20:37 UTC)

I know there are some Airbus fans who, if Boeing miss that by 2 or 3 minutes will say: "So what if the WhaleJet was slightly late? So was the B787."

 duck 
 
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solnabo
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:45 pm

The delivery for ANA´s 1st 787 will be set late 2008, oct-dec due to weight issues.

 twocents 

Micke//  Wink
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Carpethead
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:58 pm

Most certainly the first 787s will undergo some domestic flights for at least a couple of months before turning over to int'l ops.
Even if delivery is April 28, it probably won't enter service for a few more weeks as NH & JL take more time than at other airlines for pilot training when introducing a totally new aircraft type (it seems).
 
NewSky
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:08 pm

Personally I hope they deliver it just 1 day later than planned, April 29th 2008 will be my 21st birthday, would be a cool present!
 
zvezda
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 14):
Even if delivery is April 28, it probably won't enter service for a few more weeks as NH & JL take more time than at other airlines for pilot training when introducing a totally new aircraft type (it seems).

One month is a typical time from delivery to EIS of a new type. If JL and NH takes more time, then it would be June before passenger service commences.
 
dkny
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 5):
Is there a delivery schedule by airline? If ANA is first, who is 2nd & 3rd & 4th? Where will they be used? I assume ANA will use to North America?

I've read ET takes the 2nd or the 3rd. Can anyone confirm.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 13):
The delivery for ANA´s 1st 787 will be set late 2008, oct-dec due to weight issues.

Source please? Or is this your "expert prognostocation".
 
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solnabo
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:36 pm

@ DLPMMM

I´m no expert whatsoever and you know it, but I do have eyes to read with. Btw, did you see the "twocents" in my reply?

Don´t you read aviation magazines and at Boeings website? You´ll find most of the 787 weight problems there...

Micke// 

[Edited 2006-11-01 14:56:26]
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
brendows
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 18):
Source please? Or is this your "expert prognostocation".

It's just Micke's way of being funny sarcastic  There's no need to take it seriously...
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 4):
I'm hoping Boeing can meet this ambitious timetable. Composite laminates are very finicky materials to be manufactured especially on large scales with complex shapes that act in a load bearing capacity. However, I'm sure that if Boeing is gambling it's commercial division on the 787, it must be quite confident that the 787 will meet minimal delays during prototyping and certification.

The schedule is not ambitious at all. From previous introductions of new jets, Boeing took at most 1 year from first flight to EIS, with an average of 10 months. So, that's about 9 months from first flight to first delivery. I am sure Boeing doesn't really gamble everything on 787. Look at Airbus, they survive a 2 years delay on A380.  Wink

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 6):
The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

I am amazed that when you consider all of the new materials and innovations earmarked for the 787, that Boeing can say with apparent surity that 28th April 2008 WILL be the delivery date - but good luck to them.

When 747 was introduced, it was new materials and innovations. When 777 was introduces, it was new materials and innovations. Yet, Boeing managed to have first delivery on time.

Airbus's problem is with computer design and the inability to communicate between divisions. I don't really see that happening in Boeing. FYI, Boeing has used computer prototyping for the development of 777.

Quoting NewSky (Reply 15):
Personally I hope they deliver it just 1 day later than planned, April 29th 2008 will be my 21st birthday, would be a cool present!

It will probably happen. Keep your fingers crossed  Wink

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
NYC777
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 20):
It's just Micke's way of being funny There's no need to take it seriously...

True. People here tend to ignore his incoherent ramblings and move on. Maybe he'll go away.  Big grin
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
jimyvr
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Dkny (Reply 17):

I've read ET takes the 2nd or the 3rd. Can anyone confirm.

Ethiopian seem to be on course to be the 2nd to get it. or Any one of 5 chinese carriers gets them because Olympics begins on 08AUG08.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 13):
The delivery for ANA´s 1st 787 will be set late 2008, oct-dec due to weight issues.


Just commenting on this statement as it reads literally. There is no weight issue. At this stage it is heavier than their targetted weight but they have made it very clear that it is within the guarantee's given to the airlines.
 
gigneil
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 21):
When 747 was introduced, it was new materials and innovations. When 777 was introduces, it was new materials and innovations. Yet, Boeing managed to have first delivery on time.

The 747 was very, very late.

NS
 
NYC777
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
The 747 was very, very late.

NS

What are you talking about? The 747 was delivered 2 months late due to roblems with the engines.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
trex8
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 7):
Boeing has an excellent track record of delivering the goods when promised.

present performance from BCA perhaps but not 10 years ago and IDS performance is nothing to rant about today given the charges on the 737AEW delays
 
katekebo
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 25):
The 747 was very, very late.

No, it wasn't. It was a couple of months late, due to engine issues. Why people continue stating that crap without bothering to read some readily available information?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B747
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH9904/FR9904e.htm
 
sphealey
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:40 am

> It appears that the root cause of the WhaleJet
> fiasco (other than the mistaken decision to build
> it at all) was a failure of IT management. I think
> there is no doubt that America leads the world
> in IT management.

Based on what I have read about the problem with the 380 design (which may well not bear any relation to the real situation), I would respectfully disagree with your first point. "IT" per se is seldom the root cause of large project failures; it is generally only a symptom of and whipping boy for overall business and project management problems.

I would also disagree with your second point. In my experience the British have the most creative and productive IT (EDP in their terms) management. On average US IT shops can get a lot done and implement big projects, but they are not so efficient and are somewhat prone to large-scale failures as well.

Just my 0.02 unit of currency.

sPh
 
Johnny
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:12 am

28th April 2008...? A very ambitious schedule.

Let us all cross our fingers that Boeing will do it better than Airbus!

Johnny
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 30):

Even if it's April 28th 2010, it's still gonna be ambitious to you right?

I just don't see how April 28th 2008 is ambitious. it's still 1.5 years from now.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
anstar
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 23):
Ethiopian seem to be on course to be the 2nd to get it. or Any one of 5 chinese carriers gets them because Olympics begins on 08AUG08.

When are QF receiving there first batch?
 
keesje
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 12):
Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 11):
That's pretty ballsy actually stating the definite date. Did they say what time they would hand it over?

10:37 PST (20:37 UTC)

I know there are some Airbus fans who, if Boeing miss that by 2 or 3 minutes will say: "So what if the WhaleJet was slightly late? So was the B787."

Who communicated the date, Boeing, ANA or someone else?

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 21):
When 747 was introduced, it was new materials and innovations. When 777 was introduces, it was new materials and innovations. Yet, Boeing managed to have first delivery on time.

History in the MAKING..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Johnny
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:02 am

@ PolymerPlane

I am getting angry about your on-going critism of my posts.

I said, as you can read, that April 2008 is ambitious.And it is ambitious, because of the high ammount of new technologies and materials used.

I wrote nothing negative about that date, because i really hope Boeing will meet its targets.

So, pls stop your un-biased posts or answers!


Thanks!
 
zvezda
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 34):
So, pls stop your un-biased posts or answers!

I find it interesting that Johnny objects to PolymerPlane's posts and answers because they are unbiased. I'm not sure everyone here would agree with Johnny that more bias is needed. I think we have more than enough bias already -- on both sides.
 
beech19
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 28):
No, it wasn't. It was a couple of months late, due to engine issues. Why people continue stating that crap without bothering to read some readily available information?

Technically the 747 wasn't late, it was the motors. hehe  Wink Boeing had dozens of 747's packed onto the KPAE flightline waiting for motors. If P&W did their job and delivered on time the airlines would have had a plan to fly right away instead of the small 2 month delay.

Boeing did their part as they always do and they will continue with the 787. I can't wait for rollout of the first one. I'll be there taking pictures. Its nice being local. Big grin
KPAE via KBVY
 
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N328KF
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting ANstar (Reply 32):
When are QF receiving there first batch?

2009 for Qantas mainline. Qantas Jetstar will receive theirs in 2008.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Adria
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
it's hard to believe that in only 18 months it will be delivered, and they haven't assembled 1 yet. If Boeing succeeds on this tight schedule, it will be an amazing feat. I'm not so sure they won't have a delay of a month, but we'll see...

I also think there will be a delay (I also believe that it will be more than just a couple of months)...new materials, new engine technology and some additional problem that come along...
 
Filton
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:50 am

There is no way on earth that aircraft will be delivered to its first customer by the 28th April 2008. And I am an optimist!
 
G5
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:16 am

I have to agree with PolymerPlane on this one. Anyone who travels throughout Europe knows of the unique cultures within each country. When you look at Airbus as a whole, you have major parts coming from several countries and you have fabrication occurring in several countries. This process is complicated enough as it is. When you factor in the egos of each society and the politics involved, it's easy to see that simply putting the plane together is not the problem here. It's what goes on behind boardroom doors in various countries that is the reason that Airbus is plaqued with problems right now. Recent news events and postings on A.net are proof of this.

While Boeing is not perfect, they don't have to worry about the politics because there are none-it's a U.S. company, with U.S. workers that receive great parts from manufacturers all over the world. IMO, Airbus would have a lot less trouble if they only assembled and delivered in one country. But then again, Airbus probably wouldn't exist today if this had been the case from the start (but that's for a whole different thread).
 
ikramerica
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 38):
I also think there will be a delay (I also believe that it will be more than just a couple of months)

Of course you do. This was to be expected.

The engines are already testing correctly, the materials are causing troubles with one supplier (reportedly) but only of a few weeks with 18 months to fix the glitches, but it's those secret additional problems that you are privy to that are the real culprits.

The little problems aren't going to cause a many month delay. It'll be a big problem. One big problem. So, what is this big problem?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ken777
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:33 am

Wasn't there a story a while back about Boeing maintaining production during testing, allowing for multiple frames being ready when the plane is certified?

It will be interesting to learn just how many 787s will be ready for acceptance testing as soon as the certification is received, and how fast Boeing can get them out the door.

As for Airbus IT troubles and IT in general, it has appeared to me that a lot of the time an "IT problem" is the result of management making bad decisions on approving (or not approving) IT requests, especially for money. The Airbus Board and senior executives are, in the end, just as responsible for IT performance as they are for any other department and that is where I tend to place the blame.
 
beech19
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
Wasn't there a story a while back about Boeing maintaining production during testing, allowing for multiple frames being ready when the plane is certified?

I remember hearing the same thing. Granted they won't be at full production rate or anything. But i beleive its true.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
The Airbus Board and senior executives are, in the end, just as responsible for IT performance as they are for any other department and that is where I tend to place the blame.

 checkmark 
KPAE via KBVY
 
F22KA
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:45 am

Filton,
you might be an optimist but you sound silly, not doubt about it.
 
zvezda
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 42):
As for Airbus IT troubles and IT in general, it has appeared to me that a lot of the time an "IT problem" is the result of management making bad decisions on approving (or not approving) IT requests, especially for money. The Airbus Board and senior executives are, in the end, just as responsible for IT performance as they are for any other department and that is where I tend to place the blame.

That is exactly what I meant in the WhaleJet case. I'm sure someone suggested upgrading everyone to CATIA v5 and management said No. That was a catastrophic decision.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 1993
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 6):
The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

Please disconnect Airbus and Boeing here. Just because Airbus failed, doesn't mean Boeing will. The 787 (imho) is a far more ambitious project then the A380, and has several huge generatational changes that Boeing has to accomplish. To date, I have not heard anything that has convinced me that Boeing won't be able to do it.

Quoting Sphealey (Reply 29):
I would respectfully disagree with your first point. "IT" per se is seldom the root cause of large project failures; it is generally only a symptom of and whipping boy for overall business and project management problems.

As a large scale project manager, I immediatly have to disagree with you. IT projects have become the fundamental building block of any large project, because they represent the core integration effort. IT projects are also the most likely statistically to fail often costing millions and billions of dollars in lost revenue and opportunity.

Quoting Sphealey (Reply 29):
I would also disagree with your second point. In my experience the British have the most creative and productive IT (EDP in their terms) management.

Which is why IBM is the worlds largest integrator, and everyone except for IBM plays pretty much by Accenture's rules for large project implementation.

Every time I have been in Europe looking at Bank Systems in particular, I have to remind myself that the IT and credit markets there are 5-10 years behind the US.

 banghead 
 
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antoniemey
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Filton (Reply 39):
There is no way on earth that aircraft will be delivered to its first customer by the 28th April 2008. And I am an optimist!

Apparently you aren't.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
Morvious
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 46):
Just because Airbus failed, doesn't mean Boeing will.

Indeed..
The A380 is not the 787, Airbus isn't Boeing, the next Airbus project can also be on time!! Some people need to grow up on this forum!
The post started nice with just information about a new Boeing aircraft.. To bad there was someone that had to push Airbus into this post so it got hijacked into a A380/B747 delivery dates.

Now we have a delivery date for the 787, great.. lets wait and celebrate the first flight of this aircraft. Boeing has a good reputation of deliverys, and I hope they will be on shcedule with this project to, but if not, to bad for them and the customers. I rather see a worked out project then a rushed project finished!
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
redflyer
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RE: First 787 Delivery Set On 28APR08 To ANA

Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting A380Heavy (Reply 6):
The level of confidence at Boeing is utterly astounding especially given all the problems being faced at Airbus.

I am amazed that when you consider all of the new materials and innovations earmarked for the 787, that Boeing can say with apparent surity that 28th April 2008 WILL be the delivery date - but good luck to them.

Comments like these absolutely astound me. Simply put, what you are saying is that since Airbus had big problems with a new project then Boeing will too.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 7):
The problems at Airbus are because of Airbus, Boeing has an excellent track record of delivering the goods when promised.

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Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 11):
That's pretty ballsy actually stating the definite date. Did they say what time they would hand it over?

I'm not sure why it comes across as "ballsy". When the 777 was under development, Boeing published the first delivery date about 18 months out. And they stated that first delivery would go to UA on May 18, 1995. They delivered as promised.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C