jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:14 am

I am writing this thread while I am waiting in CGH boarding room for my flight RG2457 to SDU, which was rescheduled for boarding at 23:30, almost two hours after its original schedule for departure.

Along with my delayed flight there are all the remaining flights in the country (this is not a joke, Gol informed that more than 70% of its flights were delayed and TAM and Varig did not inform a percentage of delayed flights, but the airport departures display shows that all flights here in CGH are delayed today, on average the flights are with more than two hours of delay.

You all should be asking why all the flights in a big country such as Brazil have been delayed? All I can say to you is that due to lack of investment in Air Traffic Control equipment and personnel, plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers were overloaded, working with very precarious equipment. Therefore, the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers started this week a movement like a "white strike" that is causing delays in most of the flights around the country, but the biggest delays are in BSB, CGH, GRU, GIG, SDU and CWB (this movement of the Air Traffic Controllers is vigorously denied by the Brazilian Government).

The beginning of all this was with the crash of Gol flight 1907. After the crash the Government removed 8 (eight) Air Traffic Controllers from duty in Air Traffic Control Center of Brasilia. This removal and the lack of modern air traffic control equipment caused the Air Traffic Controllers of the whole country to start working overloaded. Now, the Air Traffic Controllers are just working according to international safety standards, which set that each air traffic controller can control up to 14 aircraft at a time. There are some Air Traffic Controllers saying that in Brasilia, Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro they were controlling up to 24 aircraft at a time before the start of this "white strike".

The situation in the country's airports is chaotic, with thousands of people stranded and waiting for hours and hours for their flights, there are several flights being cancelled and as mentioned before all flights are delayed.

I really hope that this movement by the Air Traffic Controllers move Infraero (the Brazilian State owned company which is responsible for the major airports in Brazil) to stop building shopping malls such as CGH and GRU and start building real airports with well built runways, modern air traffic control equipment and enough personnel to work in the airport. Real airports is what that the country is desperately in need of.

Comments, thoughts and critics regarding this situation are very welcome.

Jose Carlos
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:23 am

Jose,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Let's hope that the situation improves soon.
I had no such problems with my flights in your country last week. (GIG-GRU-ORD), everything was on time.

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:24 am

By some strange reason, both CM flights from GRU today departed fairly on time. I did hear that yesterday 0430h arrival was delayed (!), as if at that time there were a lot of traffic at GRU.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:46 am

This situation is just unacceptable!!! It's ridiculous!!!

Lack of investment!!!! Oh well, coming from Lula's government I'm not even shocked!!! Brazil deserves to be in this position.. The country doesn't even know how to pick the right candidates....... Thank god he didn't get my vote!!!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:49 pm

As you Jose i use to travel a lot in Brazil. Since last week i face several troubles and decided to stay in Sao Paulo today, just because i really know my night could be lost in an airport like CGH.

We discuss a lot about everything, the condition on some airports and now it come real with the low investment made on ATC and the very little number of ATC staff.

My opinion is very simple, they need to invest on ATC immediately, and establish again Rio and Sao Paulo ATC in order we can guarantee a contingency system able to handle all our traffic.

I'm very worried about my return flight on sunday night. Probably i will arrive CGH only by monday morning.

And due to this they authorized CGH to run operations till 1:30 AM !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:59 pm

Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:38 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?

They get priority because of fuel levels, but for example EZE, SCL, MVD, ASU and LIM flights are many times delayed.

Also there are cases of flights going to alternative points.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:37 pm

Oh okay that is what I was wondering. Thanks Felipe!
Don't Tread On Me!
 
EMB195ER
Posts: 253
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:31 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration

Jose Carlos, I know it is quite - or maybe totally  boxedin  - out of topic, but my father is a farmer back in Brazil and believe me, our president Lula da Silva is working hard to destroy not only the airports, but also other sectors of the economy. The "agro-business" is going very bad and farmers are sure that the situation will deteriorate even more.  hissyfit 

A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

For a foreigner it would seem to be the correct action. However, it does not solve their problems at all. It is only creating a mass of people who believes that governments will always help them. Our president should be investing in education and finding ways to generate more jobs. After all, one should not give fish to people, but teach them how to fish. It is far more efficient!!!

Anyway, Brazil will have to deal with a populist president during the next 4 years again.

Regards,
Claudio
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 8):
A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

For a foreigner it would seem to be the correct action. However, it does not solve their problems at all. It is only creating a mass of people who believes that governments will always help them. Our president should be investing in education and finding ways to generate more jobs. After all, one should not give fish to people, but teach them how to fish. It is far more efficient!!!

Anyway, Brazil will have to deal with a populist president during the next 4 years again.

Claudio agree with you 100%, it's such a shame that Lula was reelected, but that's a price we pay for being a democracy.

As Dellatorre already said, this situation is unacceptble and the government is the only to blame. Lack of investiment is the reason behind all this, and we needed to have a tragic accident involing the ATC to trigger these problems with the ATC workers in Brazil.

Rgs,

Neo
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 8):
A massive lack of investment is deteriorating every sector of the economy and then one can ask, but how was he re-elected? The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

Another 4 years of populism, severe infra-structure restrictions, and keep a very low level of growing... i pray to fly safely now, never imagine this concern and know i'm really worried.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:41 pm

Damn LULA. He didn't get my vote either. I'm flying today and tomorrow JFK-GRU-GIG-CNF. This is a joke.

My girlfriends dad was delayed 4 hours last night. Ridiculos.

Brazil is just getting worse and worse. Sometimes I feel like it deserves it.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:43 pm

Oh, one more thing. Just reading the news on Globo. Passengers destroy a GOL check in desk and others threaten to invade the runway in Salvador. Kind of funny  Smile but serious!
 
787kq
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
You all should be asking why all the flights in a big country such as Brazil have been delayed? All I can say to you is that due to lack of investment in Air Traffic Control equipment and personnel, plus fraud and corruption in the airports renovation constructions, and other daily usual business of President Lula da Silva's administration the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers were overloaded, working with very precarious equipment. Therefore, the Brazilian Air Traffic Controllers started this week a movement like a "white strike" that is causing delays in most of the flights around the country, but the biggest delays are in BSB, CGH, GRU, GIG, SDU and CWB (this movement of the Air Traffic Controllers is vigorously denied by the Brazilian Government).

What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 13):
What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.

787KQ, I agree with you that this far predates the current president. But LULA should step up in this all of a sudden crises and do something about it.
 
kiramakora
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 12):
Passengers destroy a GOL check in desk and others threaten to invade the runway in Salvador. Kind of funny but serious!

Wait, this reminds me of passengers reaction to DN over here  Smile.
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:53 am

Let me give you an update regarding all this fuss.

My flight RG2457 had a delay of 02:15h. The plane was packed and the boarding was in three times, first the RG2457 passengers (like me and a few others), after that passengers from a Varig flight from POA that diverted from GRU and landed in CGH, and to finish the boarding they boarded several passengers from GOL (the vast majority of passengers boarded in RG2457 were from GOL).

It passed from midnight when we pushed back from gate and it took more than 20 minutes to take off.

Upon arrival in SDU the situation was still chaotic the airport was dark with most of its lights turned off and there were no taxis, buses or other means of transport to drive passengers out of there. It took me more than 20 minutes to get a cab to drive me home.

The situation in the other airports around the country is the following:

GIG - Passengers destroyed Gol's check in counter, flights that should have departed yesterday night are still there, there are delays of more than 12 hours. It is not possible to find an employee from Infraero to get information and the police was not seen there lately. A friend of my is in GIG right now trying to get Gol flight 1906 to BSB, but Gol check in counter is closed because it was vandalized and there is no information about the estimate time for departure of Gol 1906. It will be a long day for her...

GRU - Passengers invaded TAM and Gol check in counters. 59 domestic flights and 34 international flights delayed. During today's morning no domestic flight was cleared for take off. Some flights are with more than 13 hours of delay, but you still can find food in the airport...

CGH - 9 flights canceled by Infraero, 30 flights delayed, average delay time is 2 hours. The airport is out of food due to the number of people stranded there and the bathrooms are collapsing, some are already closed, the air conditioning system is not working properly.

SSA - Passengers tried to break into the runway, the Federal Police had to intervene to control the situation. 21 flights delayed. There are more than 2000 people stranded in SSA and the some flights are with more than 10 hours of delay.

BSB - More than 30 flights delayed, average delay time of more than 6 hours (However, President Lula da Silva took only 7 minutes to board in the presidential plane and to take off to Bahia where the president and his family are going to spend the holidays). There are not enough chairs for the passengers and several are seating on the ground, the airport is out of food due to the number of people stranded there and the bathrooms collapsed, most of them were closed.

POA - 21 flights delayed, 1 flight canceled. Passengers attacked an airline employee, hitting her. The police is in the airport to control the situation.

The main problem is the lack of information, Infraero is not providing information to the airlines and the airlines are not able to inform the passengers.

Jose Carlos

p.s.: EMB195ER - I agree 100% with you, you briefly described with accurate precision what is happening in the country.
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 13):
What does the lack of investment have to do with Lula? Obviously, this is a long term issue and represents underinvestment that far predates the current President.

Lula was for 4 years in office and he stopped investments in infra-structure. Before Lula took office the domestic air traffic was according to the infra-structure in place.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:15 am

I know the roads this weekend in Brazil must be jammed by the holiday travelers, but when someone has to wait up to 6 hours (including check-in time) for a CGH-SDU or CGH-CWB, it makes you wonder why not drive or go by bus.
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
kiramakora
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 17):
Lula was for 4 years in office and he stopped investments in infra-structure. Before Lula took office the domestic air traffic was according to the infra-structure in place.

To his credit though, he did invest in a lot of social infrastructure programmes whose effects are broader in Brasilian society than those who are inconvenienced by ATC delays. Given how much I admire the subtlety of Brasilian patience, give it a few days to work things out.
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??

There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4033
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:28 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Are international flights on priority? Or is this going all across the board?



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 6):
They get priority because of fuel levels

I don't think that a lot of priority is given to international flights. My partner was on KL798 GRU AMS last night and was delayed for more than 4 hours because the inbound flight KL797 was, for some reason, forced to land at SSA by Brazilean ATC. The delay exacerbated at GRU and they took off just around midnight. Air France flights were equally delayed, although not as much as the KLM flight.
 
kiramakora
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:00 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
I know the roads this weekend in Brazil must be jammed by the holiday travelers, but when someone has to wait up to 6 hours (including check-in time) for a CGH-SDU or CGH-CWB, it makes you wonder why not drive or go by bus.
Where's a reliable Brazilian Railroad Network when is badly needed??

Brasil has a great road network though. Actually, some of my favourite road trips are all set in Brasil - including one on my first trip when I somehow got lost and endup in Londrina. Enough said.
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:46 am

It seems that we have some good news. It was announced an hour ago that the Brazilian Air Force is going to take care of the ATC. The Air Force called to duty 149 Military Air Traffic Controllers to start working as of today in order to reestablish the air traffic control in Brazil.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 20):
There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.

You're wrong about that. There are still three passenger routes! Belo Horizonte-Vitória, São Luiz-Paraupebas and Curitiba-Paranaguá. That's it if you don't count the suburban trains in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 23):
The Air Force called to duty 149 Military Air Traffic Controllers to start working as of today in order to reestablish the air traffic control in Brazil.

Apparently they weren't called, they were drafted, since they were threatened to be arrested, if they don't show up. This government is incapable!!! They are already threatening before anything happens. The responsibles for the lack of investment should be the ones to be arrested.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 21):
I don't think that a lot of priority is given to international flights.

In the case of CM, their GRU and soon GIG flights push the range of the B737-700, there's not that much a Brazilian Airtraffic controller could do when fuel reserves are very low and landings at GRU and nearby airports are restricted.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
Apparently they weren't called, they were drafted, since they were threatened to be arrested, if they don't show up. This government is incapable!!! They are already threatening before anything happens.

In the Armed forces, one is not asked to do something is ordered, it's part of being in the military, regardless if Brazilian or any other. NO matter why it happened, If this situation is a threat to Brazilian security, it's the military duty to see that it won't become worse.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
C010T3
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 25):
In the Armed forces, one is not asked to do something is ordered, it's part of being in the military, regardless if Brazilian or any other. NO matter why it happened, If this situation is a threat to Brazilian security, it's the military duty to see that it won't become worse.

I know that and it is exactly because of the fact that ATC is on the hands of the military in Brazil, they work in such bad conditions. The military doesn't have the right to strike, so they're doing what they can in order to call for attention. I don't blame them. This should have happened with more intensity before the election.
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:19 am

can anyone explain how the military is taking over or assisting with ATC?
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:52 am

If the Brazilian Airtraffic controllers are military, their problem should be addressed for and by the Brazilian armed forces themselves.
The Brazilian Airforce should wash their dirty laundry in private.
Someone with a good knowledge of Brazilian politics told me that Lula doesn't mess with the Military, they don't mess with him.
Maybe this is a sign the Brazilian military are sending that something is wrong.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
GECMD11
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:43 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 20):
There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.

Speaking of Cargo any delays out at VCP from this?
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 27):
can anyone explain how the military is taking over or assisting with ATC?

I understand that there is a mix of civilians and militaries working as ATC. In some places there are only civilians and in others militaries. Now the air force ordered this task force to take care of the ATC all over the country.

Infraero informed at 06:00pm that more than 600 flights were delayed during the day, but the average delay time was reduced from more than 6 hours to 5 hours due to some passengers giving up their travel plans and the beginning of the work of the air force ATC task force.

Infraero expects to have an average delay time of just 2 hours by today night.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
You're wrong about that. There are still three passenger routes! Belo Horizonte-Vitoria, Sao Luiz-Paraupebas and Curitiba-Paranagua. That's it if you don't count the suburban trains in Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.

If you compare the size of the country with such passenger railroad network you will agree with me that there is not passenger railroad network. The only route which is also served by airlines is Belo Horizonte - Vitoria (CNF-VIX), but passengers volume is not that big. You must be kidding when you mention the suburban trains of Rio de Janeiro e Sao Paulo...
 
pbottenb
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:07 am

Quoting Tonytifao (Reply 27):
can anyone explain how the military is taking over or assisting with ATC?

Back in the 1990's there was a program in Brazil called SIVAM - I cant remember what the acronym means, but I thought that that program was supposed to upgrade all of the ATC facilities. Does anyone know this program?

PB
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting Pbottenb (Reply 31):
Back in the 1990's there was a program in Brazil called SIVAM - I cant remember what the acronym means, but I thought that that program was supposed to upgrade all of the ATC facilities. Does anyone know this program?

The acronym means "Sistema de Vigilância da Amazonia" or Amazon Surveillance System. This program was to extend ATC to the amazon region. It was put in place and the militaries are in charge for this ATC region.
 
zschocheimages
Posts: 141
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:21 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:35 am

First of all, sorry to hear about all of the troubles in your country. But look at the bright side of things, TAM continues to grow internationaly with their order this week. GOL still has new 737's on order. Things are really looking up as a whole.

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
stop building shopping malls such as CGH and GRU and start building real airports with well built runways

This wouldn't really help the ATC situation. Plus if I'm not mistaken, the shopping areas are somewhat outdated as compared to some airports in the world. What they really need to do is totally gut the insides of the terminals and rebuild to make it more passenger friendly, not to mention more eye catching. GRU is quite dreary inside, CGH isn't as bad, but they both could use some work.
Why fly with 2 engines when you can have 3?
 
User avatar
swissbrazil
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:38 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
Quoting Jrosa (Reply 20):
There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.

You're wrong about that. There are still three passenger routes! Belo Horizonte-Vitória, São Luiz-Paraupebas and Curitiba-Paranaguá. That's it if you don't count the suburban trains in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

C010T3:
You're wrong about that too. Brazil lost it's railroad network almost 60 yrs ago or so when US interests & Volkswagen (Deutschland) came to here, and the conditions they asked for to settle down in Brazil was a complete stop of ANY railroad service 'expansion'.. hence you only have those "three" (ridiculous amount if you take into account the size of Brazil) passenger lines, they are older than the deal by GV or JK, I don't recall.... and everything went to the road! So therefore I agree with Jrosa in stating that there is NO railroad service in Brazil for passengers... and the suburbans train don't count, it's a innercity service, as Underground or Metrosystem  Wink
here up north we still have the (british) railroad line from Esplanada/BA to Salvador/BA, but has not been used for decades...
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Dellatorre (Reply 9):
it's such a shame that Lula was reelected, but that's a price we pay for being a democracy.

Well, trust me the price to pay is not much cheaper up here with Stephen Harper or G W Bush ruining our public funds to dump billions of dollars and thousands of dead soldiers either to secure Iraqi oil or Aghani pipelines...

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 8):
The answer is fairly simple: the poor population of the country massively voted for him, since he is spending millions and millions of reais in the so called social programmes to help these communities.

For a foreigner it would seem to be the correct action. However, it does not solve their problems at all.

I agree with you, democracy is often all about having to pick the least of two evil...
When I doubt... go running!
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:10 am

The entire problem is the brazilian corrupt culture. I'm giving up hope on such government. Corruption is going on for decades and I don't see a way out.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 20):
There is no passenger railroad network in Brazil. Here in Brazil just cargo is transported by railroad.



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 24):
You're wrong about that. There are still three passenger routes! Belo Horizonte-Vitória, São Luiz-Paraupebas and Curitiba-Paranaguá. That's it if you don't count the suburban trains in Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

SwissBrazil, Jrosa said that there is no passenger service just cargo and I said that there is STILL passenger service in these three routes. Jrosa, I mentioned the suburban trains, because after all they were part of the EFCB (in SP the system was actually split between more companies) and later of the RFFSA and they're actually a intercity system.
Swiss Brazil, these conditions you mention are merely speculation. I have never heard of documents that prove that. Even though I believe that there was some pressure from automobile manufacturers not to further invest, but what really happened was the fact that the immediatism of Brazilian politicians condemned the railroads. Like always it wasn't invested on the long-term. The railroads were left without maintenance and lost therefore passengers. Maintenance doesn't bring votes, only new constructions. You say 60 years. Many lines resisted until the '70s and 80's. An extreme case is the route between Rio and São Paulo until the '90s. São Luiz-Paraupebas was inaugurated in 1985. I'm not denying the fact that Brazil has and always has a sparse and deficient railway network, but there were many lines in the past and not only these three. I just corrected Jrosa, because ignored the reminiscents of the passenger railway system. Since we're in an international forum it is important to clarify these things.
 
787kq
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: Chaos In Brazil Airports!

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Jrosa (Thread starter):
Now, the Air Traffic Controllers are just working according to international safety standards, which set that each air traffic controller can control up to 14 aircraft at a time. There are some Air Traffic Controllers saying that in Brasilia, Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro they were controlling up to 24 aircraft at a time before the start of this "white strike".



Quoting Jrosa (Reply 17):
Lula was for 4 years in office and he stopped investments in infra-structure. Before Lula took office the domestic air traffic was according to the infra-structure in place.

So air traffic controllers were handling the mandated amount of traffic four years ago and there's been a 71% increase in the number of flights in the 4 years Lula's been around. I seriously doubt it. I have nothing else to say about blaming Lula. The issue seems to be that the air traffic controllers as a group don't want to be put into a position of being blamed for the GOL/Legacy collision.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aircountry, avi8tir, Bing [Bot], brajur, KarelXWB, luftaom, LY777, Mani87, mict, Sjoerd, speedygonzales, Tedd, travelhound, UAL777UK, VirginFlyer, wjcandee, ZKOJH and 193 guests