joffie
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Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 7:27 pm

This had just struck me, so why not.

United have their 744's fly from Melbourne-Sydney-LAX however these AC, apprantly, from what i have heard have very warn out interiors ect


Now, in this day and age people seem to bitch and moan about PTV'S which the UA 744's dont have cause they (cant afford them???)

Now, they fly their 777's transalantic which is what? 8-9 hours?? which have roughly the same number of seats as the 744

SYD-LAX is around 14 hours, and heck who knows what the pax would be doing for that long....

So, have UA ever thought about swapping the 744 from Aust routes to UK routes and 777 to MEL-SYD?? BA have done so for the season.

Now, i dont know what the load factors are like, but just a thoiught
 
dispatchguy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:49 pm

Well, the B744 has a higher pax capacity than the 777, however, they have ran the B777 down to AKL. I am not sure if the route LAXSYD has the required 207 minute ETOPS coverage (180 minutes + 15%)
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nickofatlanta
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:16 pm

It's also down to economics. QF and UA need the larger amount of pax and cargo capacity of the 744 to make the long thin routes from LAX/SFO-SYD and MEL work.
 
levg79
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Joffie (Thread starter):
Now, they fly their 777's transalantic which is what? 8-9 hours?? which have roughly the same number of seats as the 744

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but B744 has more seats than B772. And also, as Dispatchguy pointed out, ETOPS regulations might be an issue to conduct the direct flight.

Leo.
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United787
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:07 pm

According to Great Circle Mapper, you only need to be 180 ETOPS for LAX-SYD and SFO-SYD

LAX - SYD 6,507 nm
SFO - SYD 6,445 nm

According to Boeing, the 777-200ER has a range of 7,730 nm.
 
airxliban
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:18 pm

I believe the answer to this quesiton is no - UA's PW powered lower MTOW 772ER's cannot make it to Australia from the West Coast of the United States with the ETOPS restrictions.

Has been discussed a long time ago, maybe 2004...suggest a search.
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Slovacek747
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:19 pm

Also have to keep in mind that UA 777 have derated engines which would more than likely make the route unprofitable using that aircraft. I know the 744 already has a tough time making because of the engines and often takes payload cuts. What can I say.. shoulda gone with the stronger engines.

Slovacek747
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:19 pm

UA used to fly their 777s LAX-AKL, but found the payload restrictions to be too high to make the route economical year-round.
 
gigneil
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 4):
According to Great Circle Mapper, you only need to be 180 ETOPS for LAX-SYD and SFO-SYD

ETOPS 180 is, for whatever reason, not available down to the South Pacific. I am unsure of why.

UA's 777s are the worst in the world in terms of performance.

NS
 
planetime
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 1):
Well, the B744 has a higher pax capacity than the 777, however, they have ran the B777 down to AKL. I am not sure if the route LAXSYD has the required 207 minute ETOPS coverage (180 minutes + 15%)

Also the demand for US-SYD is stronger also than the US-NZ market. Yes they did run the 777 to AKL for a bit downgrading it from a 744 before that. But now its all been axed a victim of Chap 11.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
ETOPS 180 is, for whatever reason, not available down to the South Pacific. I am unsure of why.

I am not sure what you are getting at but QF and NZ's 767-300ER fleets are ETOPS180 and they fly them all over the Pacific.
NZ has to fly around the ETOPS180 limit on the LAX-PPT route but it only adds about 100 +- nm to the route.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
ETOPS 180 is, for whatever reason, not available down to the South Pacific. I am unsure of why.

180 min ETOPS is available world wide, including the South Pacific.

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 5):
I believe the answer to this quesiton is no - UA's PW powered lower MTOW 772ER's cannot make it to Australia from the West Coast of the United States with the ETOPS restrictions.

There are no ETOPS restrictions for SYD-LAX. The great circle route can be flown with 180 min ETOPS, as has been pointed out. The only reason ETOPS might come into play is if wind conditions favored a more easterly route.

UA 777's restrictions on this route would be a result of their fleet decisions in terms of MTOW and engine type selections.
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sshank
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:05 am

Any one know why did UA spec'ed the low MTOW versions for thier 772s? Or was there no other option when they ordered given that they were the launch customer?

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 11):
There are no ETOPS restrictions for SYD-LAX. The great circle route can be flown with 180 min ETOPS, as has been pointed out. The only reason ETOPS might come into play is if wind conditions favored a more easterly route.

UA 777's restrictions on this route would be a result of their fleet decisions in terms of MTOW and engine type selections.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 11):
UA 777's restrictions on this route would be a result of their fleet decisions in terms of MTOW and engine type selections.

Keep in mind UA was the launch customer for the 777. I would think in order to make this route viable on any 777 air frame it would either have to be a 772LR or a 773ER. The 772 ER just doesn't quite have the ability to do this one.
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walter747
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Joffie (Thread starter):
Now, in this day and age people seem to bitch and moan about PTV'S

got that right. what would they do 20 years ago.
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brilondon
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 10):
I am not sure what you are getting at but QF and NZ's 767-300ER fleets are ETOPS180 and they fly them all over the Pacific.
NZ has to fly around the ETOPS180 limit on the LAX-PPT route but it only adds about 100 +- nm to the route.

Do they not stop the 767 in HNL for refueling? I know AC does this when flying from YVR, of course it is further then LAX to SYD but I don't know by how far.
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ikramerica
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 13):
The 772 ER just doesn't quite have the ability to do this one.

Sure it does. A new one does, at least. A brand spanking new 772ER with highest rated engines and MTOW has over 7700nm, much further than the 744 non-ER UA flies now. Somehow CO makes it work EWR-HKG, much further.

But UA doesn't have the latest, greatest 777. That's the point.

ETOPS 207 restrictions only come into play when trying to fly to DFW or MIA or ATL, as they cross over the MID-pacific dead zone, with no islands at all to land on. To get around that, those flights would need to overfly SAN or close to it (actually Baja, but why pay Mexico for overflight when SAN is so close?)
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MEACEDAR
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:23 am

Why not just upgrade the interiors?
 
planetime
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 17):
not just upgrade the interiors?

I think UAL is thinking about redoing their 744's. I beleive that its only business and first class that they are planning to remodel. Not really sure about Economy. It is a shame that UAL lags behind many or most carriers in terms of offerings on their 744's. I flew their 777's and its better than their 744's but far behind most other carriers 777 in terms of standard.
 
manu
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:49 am

I'm looking forward to go to AKL from LAX on Air New Zealand's flight #1, a 777-200 ER. I picked that flight specifically to get on the twin in hopes of getting a better look at the new bird. I have only been on a 777 once, AA's from ORD-DFW in early 2001.

But I also avoided any UA flights because of their outdated IFE systems on the 744. Proof you lose customers on flights like this because of services.
 
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United787
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 5):
I believe the answer to this quesiton is no - UA's PW powered lower MTOW 772ER's cannot make it to Australia from the West Coast of the United States with the ETOPS restrictions.

I have a hard time believing that UA's 772ER PW engines have 1,200 nm less of a range than the highest rated 772ER engine. Is that true?

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 11):
180 min ETOPS is available world wide, including the South Pacific.

Not over the entire South Pacific but it is available over the route from LAX to SYD.

Quoting Sshank (Reply 12):
Any one know why did UA spec'ed the low MTOW versions for thier 772s? Or was there no other option when they ordered given that they were the launch customer?

I am assuming because they won't buy any other engines but PW. I hope that changes, it seems limiting.

Quoting MEACEDAR (Reply 17):
Why not just upgrade the interiors?

I agree, this needs to be done.
 
Indio66
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Manu (Reply 19):
But I also avoided any UA flights because of their outdated IFE systems on the 744. Proof you lose customers on flights like this because of services.

Agreed. I avoid LH for the very same reason.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 11):
180 min ETOPS is available world wide, including the South Pacific.

Not over the entire South Pacific but it is available over the route from LAX to SYD.

Please share where you think it isn't available.
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walter747
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 18):
think UAL is thinking about redoing their 744's. I beleive that its only business and first class that they are planning to remodel. Not really sure about Economy. It is a shame that UAL lags behind many or most carriers in terms of offerings on their 744's.

sounds like LH.  laughing 
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flydreamliner
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:37 am

Someone else's 772ER's could easily do LAX or SFO to MEL or SYD. Fully rated, a 772ER has more range than a 744, or even 744ER. United and Qantas have the load factors to fill the 744s. If someone else, say CO or DL or AA, who have fully rated 772ERs, could do this route easily. (I believe all 3 operate, or plan to operate routes longer than LAX-SYD with their 772ERs anyway).
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DC8FanJet
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:39 am

UA ran ORD/HKG with 777ER for a time, but needed the cargo lift of the 744
Probably the same issue to Australia
 
MEACEDAR
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 18):
It is a shame that UAL lags

It is a shame.
 
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United787
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 22):
Please share where you think it isn't available.

If you go this website and put in LAX-PPT and click on 180 min ETOPS you will see a large dark area between French Polynesia and Central America some of which is the North Pacific and some of which is the South Pacific. Also, the area below French Polynesia and Easter Island is dark which I understand restricts SYD-SCL to 4 engine aircraft.
 
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United787
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:58 am

I forgot to post the website:

http://gc.kls2.com/
 
SuseJ772
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
I am assuming because they won't buy any other engines but PW. I hope that changes, it seems limiting.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this because UA refuses to ever buy another GE engine due to a conflict over some crash findings in the past (can't remember which) and the GE engines are the "better" engines for power, range, efficiency, etc...

I am fully willing to admit I could be wrong, so don't flame me if I have mixed up some of my facts.
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jfk777
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:41 am

It must be the curse of the Pratt & Whitney 772ER for UA ? How does Korean Air fly to Atlanta and JFK with their P&W 772ER's but poor UA can't make it to Sydney from LAX with theirs?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 29):
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this because UA refuses to ever buy another GE engine due to a conflict over some crash findings in the past (can't remember which)...

The DC-10 they lost at Sioux City, Iowa.

I've heard it, as well, but seriously, UA has no real choice going forward but to accept GE or RR power for their widebody fleet since P&W are not an option for the 772LR, 773ER, 748-I, 787, or A350. And on the A380, to get P&W power you have to also take GE power.  Wink

So if this is indeed true in the past or even now, UA will let "by-gones be by-gones" and move forward with GE power if that is what the situation requires.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 30):
It must be the curse of the Pratt & Whitney 772ER for UA ? How does Korean Air fly to Atlanta and JFK with their P&W 772ER's but poor UA can't make it to Sydney from LAX with theirs?

The PW4090 can't run at max power because of emissions issues (as I recall). Beyond that fact, UA detuned their engines even more to (I guess) improve their life and maintenance intervals. I don't know if this is a physical or software de-rating.
 
baw716
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:18 am

The -200ER can make the route, no problem; however, I agree that a larger plane is needed for that route. At 6500nm, the -300ER is pretty close, but UA did not want the -300 because their facilities can't handle the aircraft (this was the assessment made when the -300 became available-I was at UA at the time and this was the reason for not ordering the aircraft).

baw716
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DC8FanJet
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:37 am

UA's ER's are nominally 656k MGTOW, capable of the distance
 
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AA777223
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:45 am

As far as I can remember, I think this is the story:

I BELIEVE, not sure, that United and Pratt & Whitney have a long standing history under the umbrella of the United Technologies company, and are therefore practically always going to choose P&W if its available. This was told to me in a thread in the past, whether true or not, I don't know.

I think it is such a shame that soemthing political like that has turned what was once the largest fleet of 777s in the world into reduced capability machines. I understand their is a PW 4098 engine available, but it has some many problems that only one carrier ordered it, and then ended up swapping them out for the 90's later.

If all this is true, and I'm not saying it is, it comes as no shock that P&W haven't been granted contracts on the newer widebodies. When it comes to high thrust engines, they just don't seem to have what it takes without a partnership. It makes me wonder how they have been able to sell as well on the 777 as they have.
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roseflyer
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting Slovacek747 (Reply 6):
I know the 744 already has a tough time making because of the engines and often takes payload cuts. What can I say.. shoulda gone with the stronger engines.

It isn't that UA 747s can't fly the route. The problem is when weather is bad in SYD and the flight has to list MEL as an alternate. UA's 747s can't fly to MEL without payload restrictions. Winds are less of a factor on flights that cross the equator, but weather can cause problems.

The 747 is the longest range plane in the UA fleet, and is fitted properly for LAX/SFO-SYD with a large premium first class cabin and business class cabin and the ability to carry more cargo and passengers. The 777s are newer and have nicer interiors, but if the capabilities are needed, the 747 is a superior plane with lower costs per passenger.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
UA's 777s are the worst in the world in terms of performance.

You really need to clarify what you mean by performance. If you are talking about range and maximum take off weight, then yes. But there are efficiencies to be gained by operating lower thrust engines. Weight can be saved, which can make the plane more efficient. So while max range is effected, the overall performance of the airplane isn't necessarily worse.

Quoting SuseJ772 (Reply 29):
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this because UA refuses to ever buy another GE engine due to a conflict over some crash findings in the past (can't remember which) and the GE engines are the "better" engines for power, range, efficiency, etc...

UA's bias towards PW has a lot more to do with other reasons. Few people realize, but early on in aviation, Boeing, United and Pratt & Whitney were all part of the same company. Boeing and United Airlines broke off due to antitrust regulations enforced by the government. But there is a reason that Untied Airlines shares its name with the parent company of PW (United Technologies). Although now United has a responsibility to its owners and stock holders to buy the cheapest and best products to meet its financial needs, there has been a bias towards PW and Boeing for many years (although that could be argued since UA bought the DC8 and A320).
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:49 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 27):
If you go this website and put in LAX-PPT and click on 180 min ETOPS you will see a large dark area between French Polynesia and Central America some of which is the North Pacific and some of which is the South Pacific. Also, the area below French Polynesia and Easter Island is dark which I understand restricts SYD-SCL to 4 engine aircraft.

This has nothing to do with the availability of 180 min. ETOPS. It indicates that in this area you are more than 180 min. from a suitable airport so you would need to dog leg around it.

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=s...GE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=&ETOPS=180

Instead of saying 180 min. is unavailable in the South Pacific, the correct way to describe the situation is to say that some routes in the South Pacific require more than 180 min. ETOPS to fly directly.

SYD-LAX is not one of those routes.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
Getdonnie
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:46 am

I think the issue is whether United's B777s could perform the routing LAX-SYD/AKL. I think we are all in agreement that a higher performing B777ER/LR/300 could make the trip.

What was the aircraft that Boeing recently flew HKG - LHR in a westerly direction over the continental US and across the Atlantic? Does anyone recall the distance and duration of that flight? And confirm the type of B777? Thank you.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 9):
Also the demand for US-SYD is stronger also than the US-NZ market. Yes they did run the 777 to AKL for a bit downgrading it from a 744 before that. But now its all been axed a victim of Chap 11.

In March 2003, while UA was using the 777 on AKL-LAX they had what I believe may still rank as the longest-ever single-engine ETOPS diversion. It was the longest to that point in the approximate 20 year history of ETOPS operations. They shut an engine down due to a low oil quantity alert and diverted to Kona, Hawaii. Due to headwinds they exceeded the 180 minute ETOPS limit by several minutes. The original diversion point was HNL but they changed it to Kona which cut a few minutes off the flying time but it was still slightly over 180 minutes if not mistaken.

Related article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_12_17/ai_99126456

[Edited 2006-11-02 22:12:18]
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 34):
I understand their is a PW 4098 engine available, but it has some many problems that only one carrier ordered it, and then ended up swapping them out for the 90's later.

If all this is true, and I'm not saying it is, it comes as no shock that P&W haven't been granted contracts on the newer widebodies. When it comes to high thrust engines, they just don't seem to have what it takes without a partnership. It makes me wonder how they have been able to sell as well on the 777 as they have.

They'll still be around though. They make some MEAN fighter engines (F119, F135).

Quoting Getdonnie (Reply 37):
And confirm the type of B777? Thank you.

It was a publicity flight for a 777LR
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roseflyer
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Getdonnie (Reply 37):
What was the aircraft that Boeing recently flew HKG - LHR in a westerly direction over the continental US and across the Atlantic? Does anyone recall the distance and duration of that flight? And confirm the type of B777? Thank you.

the 772LR did the flights as a promotional trick. I think it took about 24 hours. Never could the plane do that in service.

On a promotional trip to set a round the world record, Boeing flew a test 777-200ER SEA-KUL (the long way around) and then KUL-SEA to show that the plane could fly anywhere in the world. However that was with a payload restriction and only journalists on board in addition to a few Boeing staff. The trick did work as MH did end up buying 777s.
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WeAreUnited
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:13 am

I know this hasn't been discussed in a the past few replies... but I thought I'd throw this in.

Quoting Joffie (Thread starter):
Now, they fly their 777's transalantic which is what? 8-9 hours?? which have roughly the same number of seats as the 744

UA's 744's have more seats in Economy then they do on an International configured 777.

So that means the 744 has 87 more seats. 73 in United Business and 14 in United First.
 
KingAirMan
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:15 am

can someone define what 180 etops means ?
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 42):
can someone define what 180 etops means ?

Rather than write a long explanation, try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETOPS
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
joffie
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting KingAirMan (Reply 42):
can someone define what 180 etops means ?

I think it means, that a plane such as a 777 can only fly for 3 hours max with one engine, therefore it must be at least 3 hours from a suitable landing strip

Everyone else, thanks for your contributions, it really helps  Smile

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 41):
UA's 744's have more seats in Economy then they do on an International configured 777.

So that means the 744 has 87 more seats. 73 in United Business and 14 in United First.

Fair enough, i was just interested in what the loading would be like from SYD-LAX cause UA must compete with QF, ANZ
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Joffie (Reply 44):
I think it means, that a plane such as a 777 can only fly for 3 hours max with one engine, therefore it must be at least 3 hours from a suitable landing strip

Not exactly. The 773ER has flown over 330 min on one engine as part of a certification demonstration, so the limitation is not the airframe/engine capability.

The limitation is a regulatory one based on the current definition of safe operation.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
jfk777
Posts: 5867
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:22 am

Its timer for United to get second generation 777 or newer 748. The Wolf era wide bodies are nearing the seventh inning strech od their lives.
 
turkee
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:21 pm

RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 22):
Please share where you think it isn't available.

PER-JNB  Smile

A twin-enginer airliner would have to take a considerable detour north in order to travel this route and remain ETOPS-180. Probably the reason QF doesn't fly anything less than a 747 on this route.
 
unitednrt
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:43 am

RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting DC8FanJet (Reply 33):
UA's ER's are nominally 656k MGTOW, capable of the distance

He knows what he's talking about.



The answer is yes they could with slight payload restrictions, yet demand warrants the 2x B744.
"...That's a lovely name. My name's Milton; Milton Ettenheim, but my friends call me Bubbles."
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Could United Fly Their 777's To Australia?

Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:23 am

Quoting Turkee (Reply 47):
PER-JNB

A twin-enginer airliner would have to take a considerable detour north in order to travel this route and remain ETOPS-180

Indeed a Great circle route PER-JNB dips down into the 300+min ETOPS area but I thought we were discussing the Pacific here. PER-JNB via the South Pacific seems awfully wasteful Big grin

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