nzblue
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F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:21 pm

http://www.frontierairlines.com/fron...ers/member-offers/buy3-get1free.do

excerpt:

Fly 3 Get 1 Free
Fly three non-stop, round-trip flights between LAX and SFO on Frontier Airlines between November 1, 2006 and February 8, 2007, and earn 4,500 EarlyReturns® bonus miles. That's in addition to 1,000 miles you already earn for each flight, giving you a grand total of 7,500 EarlyReturns® miles. That's enough miles to redeem for a free round-trip flight between LAX and SFO.

With the 'free' offer being tied into EarlyReturns, it sounds like a pretty good way for Frontier to gain a bit of modest loyalty on the route and possibly beyond?

Thoughts, comments, comparisions, anyone?
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emseeeye
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:25 pm

They are a few months late. I think they should have had something like this even before they started flying the LAX-SFO route to help boost it from the beginning. Is this desperation?
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting EmSeeEye (Reply 1):
Is this desperation?

Why would it be ""desperation"?

I was just looking at the bookings for this week-end. Sunday SFO-LAX the cheapest fares (when I checked) are over $100 more than the cheapest on other airlines.

What it does suggest is an odd one, that I've been wondering about for some time:

It is only available LAX-SFO, not SFO-LAX. So I'm wondering if LAX-SFO is not as strong as SFO-LAX?

And if that is true, I wonder why? (Yeh, I know, some will say "advertising", but why is it working in reverse?).

But the most interesting thing, to me, is that it is lifted straight from the Southwest Rapid Returns playbook - only Fly 3 and get 1 free, instead of Fly 8 get 1 free."

Thanks, Southwest.  

mariner

[Edited 2006-11-03 05:49:01]
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nzblue
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
It is only available LAX-SFO, not SFO-LAX.

That is an interesting thing to point out. It looks as if these credits can be earned on any non-stop LAX-SFO round trip flight, regardless if the round trip starts and ends at SFO or LAX. However, I can't imagine they'd limit the free round-trip to just the LAX-SFO-LAX round trip as opposed to also including the SFO-LAX-SFO.

The terms and conditions do repeatedly say "between LAX and SFO" and not "from LAX to SFO." I think it would have been in Frontier's best interests to have made it perfectly clear if indeed the reward is solely for a round trip which both begins and ends in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, the terms and conditions leave that issue in somewhat of a gray area.

Good catch  Smile
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jetbluefan1
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:50 pm

B6 did the same thing with OAK-LGB a few years back. I think it's a great marketing ploy if it helps boost customer loyalty and brand awareness in the cities.

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akjetBlue
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:02 pm

hmmm wierd, the first thing I thought of when I saw it was the AA promotion did to try to knock out some ridership from B6.

Hey if it works, I'm all for it.

Isn't there enough competion on this route already though? I guess if they can get their nitch in there it'll help them out. Is F9 planning any other new point to point markets?
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F9Animal
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:10 am

Thought I would chime in on this one. I worked for an airline based out of LAS called Tristar Airlines in 1995. Our airline obviously failed, but showed dramatic improvement in bookings with our Fastpass offers. Before I get into Fastpass offers, I should explain our route structure.

We flew what I liked to call the Golden Triangle. That was LAS to LAX, LAX to LAS, LAX to SFO, SFO to LAX, SFO to LAS, LAS to SFO. <- I should have just included a map!! LOL! Also flew LAS to GCN, ASE, EUG, and RNO.

Anyways, we sold the Fastpass for $499 for 6 one way tickets. At that time, it meant fly 2 round trips, the 3rd is free. When we started pushing it about 4 months before shutdown, our bookings blew up in the SFO to LAX market. I have no idea why, but the promo was really pointing from the red to the black. Sadly, Tristar was already on its deathbed before the push of Faspass.

Tristar consisted of 4 aircraft. 4 BAE-146's...........


Frontier consists of over 50 aircraft, and much better financial position than Tristar (MUCH MUCH BETTER!!). I am confident that the routes and the offer are going to get the attention of the business travelers. Take it from one that saw it himself over 10 years ago. The route is a hot one, there is no doubt in my mind.
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 5):
Is F9 planning any other new point to point markets?

Yes. As in:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 6):
That was LAS to LAX, LAX to LAS, LAX to SFO, SFO to LAX, SFO to LAS, LAS to SFO.

By mid-December, Frontier will have two sides of your Golden Triangle when SFO-LAS starts.  Smile

I think the promotion has a few reasons - obviously, to help the route, but also we are going into winter, when there won't be so much tourist traffic, and - most importantly -

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4):
I think it's a great marketing ploy if it helps boost customer loyalty and brand awareness in the cities.

 checkmark 

mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
Why would it be ""desperation"?

You're kidding, right?
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
You're kidding, right?

Why would I kid?

People have been dumoing on Frontier for not promoting the route - now, it seems, they are dumping on Frontier for promoting the route.

???

mariner
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airplaneboy
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:25 am

A new marketing campaign (although not related to television or radio) began on November 1st. Frontier appears to be committed to increasing market share as well as expanding brand awareness. Keep in mind it costs oodles of money to have mass marketing in markets as big as L.A. and San Francisco. I don't see too many airline commercials as it is (minus an occasional WN, UA, or AA commercial).

Also, Paul Tate (mariner mentioned this before) was quoted in a Denver Post/Rocky Mountain News article regarding Frontier's willingness to nurse the route so to speak. Success does not happen overnight, and not many airlines can claim that such was the case for any of their flights.

Frontier is in a great financial position with a lot of cash on hand. SFO-LAX is a prime west coast market whose success could spell for further west coast brand recognition. An investment in a new route is a great thing. Whether it takes 3 months or 2 years to realize this success is relative. Frontier's attempt to establish itself in the west coast is still in it's infancy. Give it some time.

It's also important to remember F9's conservative growth strategy. Currently in it's 13th year of operations, it operates 55 Airbus A318's/A319's (as well as 9 CRJ-700's under contract with QX) to almost 60 cities in 3 countries. There are other airlines that have grown rapidly, only to incur exponentially increasing costs. Not Frontier. A look at F9's earnings statements is a testament to the fact that Frontier is a great manager of its costs.

Also, be advised that as of January 2007, Frontier will be considered a major airline per the DOT.

Regards,

AirplaneBoy
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 10):
Success does not happen overnight, and not many airlines can claim that such was the case for any of their flights.

I am always guided by the CEO, AirplaneBoy.

Mr. Potter is a remarkably honest man, and his every public utterance about the company is subject to SEC review.

So when he declares, publicly, to shareholders and analysts, that the route is a "success", I tend to believe him, however that "success" is defined.

Others may have a different view, of course, but some of them may have other motives.

mariner

ps: I hope you're brushing up on your Spanish - it may come in useful.  Smile
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Indy
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:39 am

F9 supposedly tried to make LAX work before and the attempt failed. This is starting to look more and more like a desperate attempt to make it work again.
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F9Animal
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 10):
It's also important to remember F9's conservative growth strategy. Currently in it's 13th year of operations, it operates 55 Airbus A318's/A319's (as well as 9 CRJ-700's under contract with QX) to almost 60 cities in 3 countries. There are other airlines that have grown rapidly, only to incur exponentially increasing costs. Not Frontier. A look at F9's earnings statements is a testament to the fact that Frontier is a great manager of its costs.

That equates to less than 5 aircraft per year. I would say that F9 has done an excellent job of growing nicely. Glad to see your still around buddy! How is life up at 37,000 feet?
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FATFlyer
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting AirplaneBoy (Reply 10):
Keep in mind it costs oodles of money to have mass marketing in markets as big as L.A. and San Francisco.

And of the 2, San Francisco is the more expensive. It is the highest cost media market in the state.

Quoting Indy (Reply 12):
F9 supposedly tried to make LAX work before and the attempt failed. This is starting to look more and more like a desperate attempt to make it work again.

The last attempt, to me, was more of a long distance route attempt with little real focus and strategy other than the routes went to LAX.

This time it appears to be more focused on regional routes. As mariner calls it, it appears to be a California/Mexico focused strategy.
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 12):
This is starting to look more and more like a desperate attempt to make it work again.

Again, that odd word "desperate".

Northwest must be really "desperate" because they are having a system wide sale.

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 14):
This time it appears to be more focused on regional routes. As mariner calls it, it appears to be a California/Mexico focused strategy.

Actually, it isn't me, FATFlyer. It is lifted directly from the latest DOT filing:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p87/416287.pdf

"...as its Mexico service expands, Frontier will continue to look at other new opportunities within California and Mexico."

Which flat out tells us what is going to happen.

I think we are simply watching the building blocks being put into place.

 Smile

mariner
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Indy
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
Northwest must be really "desperate" because they are having a system wide sale.

Buy 3 and get 1 free is pretty desperate. I'd say the same about NW if they were doing that. I think TZ had a program like that.
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MSYtristar
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:21 am

It would be nice to see F9 go back to the "Spirit of the West" theme if they continue to build up western p2p markets. I always liked that one better than the current one...just has a better ring to it.

Regardless if this is "desperation" or not, at least they are not throwing in the towel without putting up a fight.

[Edited 2006-11-04 03:22:59]
 
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 16):
Buy 3 and get 1 free is pretty desperate.

Why?

The alternative is that folks would have to use 15,000 FF miles for a freebie on that short flight, when they could go transcon, with Frontier, for same amount.

It is the slow season, it costs 'em little, it is surely an eye-catcher and will probably bring in a bunch of new Early Returns members, all on one short - but very high profile - route.

Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me, for airline or passenger.

As I said above, it seems odd that folk dump on Frontier for their perceived lack of promotion, and then dump on them when they do promote something.

???

mariner
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Indy
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:27 am

Strangely enough I've never seen a promotion for them here and they have CUN service.
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F9Animal
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:22 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 16):
Buy 3 and get 1 free is pretty desperate. I'd say the same about NW if they were doing that. I think TZ had a program like that.

Desperate is a rough word for F9's plans. Aggressive would be more like it.

Three categories to define:

1. Pizza restaurants: Domino's= Buy 2 get 1 free (are they desperate?) Pizza Hut Buy 2 get 1 free (are they desperate?)

2. Jiffy Lube= Get 4 oil changes and the 5th is free. Last I checked, Jiffy was doing just fine.

3. Alaska Airlines= Kids fly free to Disney Land. Southwest Airlines= Kids fly free. Neither airline is desperate.

Although the above examples are always changing, it offers something that many like in this wonderful world. FREE!!!! I always raise an eyebrow when I see something such as: Buy 2, get 1 free. Everytime I open the Sunday paper and look at the Grocery adds, I look for the buy 1 get 1 free, or the 10 for $10 deals. When my favorite store is not running a promo, they still get my business, because of the good service and quality product. I think the same applies to the airline I fly.

I think if anything, desperate is a harsh word to use. I would say that the advertising alone is going to raise the eyebrows, and get the word of mouth in the business markets flying.

Hey Bill, I just flew Frontier to LAX and got a heck of a deal. If you fly three roundtrips, you get a free roundtrip! Now Bill gets on the phone, and tells his coworkers about the deals. Those coworkers tell their family and friends, and so on. Great way to get recognition if you ask me. And lets face it, LAX/SFO market is a money maker, and F9 wants a piece of the pie.
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FATFlyer
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:31 am

$49 one way fares by NW on Chicago-Detroit? Hhhmmm. Maybe we should be worried about NW not doing well on that route.

But instead just like Frontier's move inCalifornia I see NW using promotion to stand out in a crowded route.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
Actually, it isn't me, FATFlyer. It is lifted directly from the latest DOT filing:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p87/416287.pdf

"...as its Mexico service expands, Frontier will continue to look at other new opportunities within California and Mexico."

Which flat out tells us what is going to happen.

But you were probably the first to figure out the significance of that line in light of recent moves. I had read it also and never put 2+2 together. I took it simply as meaningless verbiage.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 21):
I had read it also and never put 2+2 together. I took it simply as meaningless verbiage.

I've learned to take "Frontier-speak" at face value, FATFlyer - they often tease us with the truth.

Long before we knew there was "trouble with MESA" and their CRJ's, CFO Tate said they were looking to get some CR7's.

And lo, Mesa went away and Horizon turned up - with CR7's.

When they announced Alaska, the CEO also said they were looking at "a Caribbean island".

We all thought he meant Jamaica or Grand Cayman. But lo - Cozumel turned up - "a Caribbean island".

When Delta tried to tell the DOT to switch their LAX-GDL authority to their Connection provider, Frontier protested - they said that LAX-GDL was a route in which they would be "very interested". They can't get it, of course, but it was a big clue.

Then, not long after, the CEO said they would "probably go back to LAX".

And lo -  

There are several "clues" out at the moment.

(i) The replacement of Horizon. No one knows who it will be, because no one I know can think of any airline (who is not limited by non-compete clauses) with 20 x CR7 sitting around.

But Frontier hasn't said CR7's - they have said 70 seat jets. When they did the "bake-off" between the A318 and the E jets, they said they had to find a way to get the E's into fleet - or find a way to compete with them.

I don't know what that means because I don't know of an airline that has 20 x E170 (who isn't limited by non-compete clauses) sitting around.

(ii) Mexico City. Frontier's Joe Hodas has said that they are looking at "maybe it after they get GDL under their belt". But he also said "not necessarily from DEN."

If not from DEN - where?

(iii) Costa Rica. Joe Hodas has said Costa Rica. The CEO has said "Central America". So - Costa Rica? Belize? Neither? Both? Somewhere else?

(iv) When they set up the holding company, they said it was, in part, so they could start a "regional subsidiary. And lo - Lynx.

But they also said "a Mexican subsidiary." I have no idea how that would/could work.

 

mariner

[Edited 2006-11-04 20:13:57]
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 15):
Northwest must be really "desperate" because they are having a system wide sale.

Is NW doing buy three, get one free in markets they barely have a toehold on, though? There's your difference.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 20):
Pizza restaurants: Domino's= Buy 2 get 1 free (are they desperate?) Pizza Hut Buy 2 get 1 free (are they desperate?)

In a way, yes - they're both losing market share to Papa John's and competition from businesses with healthier fare.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 20):
Alaska Airlines= Kids fly free to Disney Land

...when you buy a Disney vacation package, the profit margin of which far more than offsets the value of the airfare the kiddies would have purchased.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:54 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
Is NW doing buy three, get one free in markets they barely have a toehold on, though? There's your difference.

Sorry, I don't understand the difference.

You seem to be implying there is something wrong with Frontier doing something to promote a route and/or to increase their FF base.

Okay. There isn't much I can say to that.

mariner
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laca773
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 16):

Buy 3 and get 1 free is pretty desperate. I'd say the same about NW if they were doing that. I think TZ had a program like

Indy,
In my opinion the statement you made above is inaccurate!!
PSA did this a number of times when I flew every other week between LAX-SJC or SFO. It was a good way to gain extra mileage and get a complimentary ticket without any mileage deduction. After US Air's fatal attempt to intergrate PSA by merging them into their system, they did many similar promotions, and the planes still flew full, minus a promotional offer. They failed because their East Coast philosophy wouldn't work out here on the West Coast.

I see this as a way for F9 to gain familiarity with frequent flyers on the West Coast and gain a consistent following other than what they have through their hub in DEN! More power to them for doing this and I hope they succeed.

LACA773
 
BigGSFO
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RE: F9: Fly 3x LAX-SFO, Get 1 Free

Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:05 pm

Interesting....

AA is also offering a 1,000 mile bonus for SFO-LAX flights. Does this mean they are desperate too? Unlikely.
http://www.aa.com/apps/netSAAver/Vie...ry&itemDescriptor=PromotionContent

A promotion is a promtion.

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