eastern023
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What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:13 am

What are Finnair's current gateways to the US?. Any plans to expand?.
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Birdwatching
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:18 am

No offense, but it took me 4 clicks to get to their route map on their web site, probably much less than starting a thread on A.net.

Sorry, can't link to that, it's session ID, but you'll find it easily www.finnair.com > destinations

[Edited 2006-11-03 19:22:08]
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eastern023
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:22 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1):
No offense, but it took me 4 clicks to get to their route map on their web site, probably much less than starting a thread on A.net.

No offense taken. I wanted to find out more about the plans for expansion. No offense, but read the rest of the posting.
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jfk777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:24 am

JFK daily and in the winter sunny Miami. I never have understood there HUGE Asian map but small North American map ?
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:25 am

Straight from their website:

http://www.finnair.com/web/finnair/s...fondgln.0&pageid=-13706&zone=world

NYC for scheduled flights
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Joost
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
JFK daily and in the winter sunny Miami. I never have understood there HUGE Asian map but small North American map ?

Finnair carries a lot of connecting passengers, flying Europe-Asia via Helsinki. HEL has a perfect location for a hub between Europe and Asia, so they have a good competitive advantage to be a serious player in the Europe-Asia market.

On the other hand, they do not fulfill this role for the Europe-North america market, as it will require a lot of backtracking. Therefore, the North America flights are running on local demand and some connecting pax from the Baltics or Russia, but that's about it. Therefore, only flights to the most obvious destinations.
 
MAH4546
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:46 am

New York City year-round, Boston in the summer, Miami in the winter, but Miami will not be served for this winter timetable.
a.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
but Miami will not be served for this winter timetable.

They won't be serving them even via Halifax this year? Why the sudden change.

Boston is flown via Stockholm, orginally NYO but they switched to ARN.
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:22 am

Not in the U.S., but Toronto has been served. Charter? Summer only?
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eastern023
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:40 am

I wonder if IAD would be profitable for them. Specially with the Asia connections.
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airbusfanyyz
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 8):
Not in the U.S., but Toronto has been served. Charter? Summer only?

AY serves YYZ with their B757s only in the Summer months.

Cheers,
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elmothehobo
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 8):

Yup, I remember that too. It was with a 757, though I don't know if it was nonstop or via Stockholm or Oslo.
 
wingedarrow
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
I never have understood there HUGE Asian map but small North American map ?

Having visited Finland more than once, I had the impression they don't find the US very attractive, but this is just an impression of mine, I don't want anybody to get offended. So they just concentrate on a different market, like the asian one, that is more profitable for their economy and where there's more room for them. I know Finnair follows Nokia closely and Nokia, which is maybe one of the most widely known Finnish brands in the world, has more relations with asian countries than it has with the US.
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Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 7):
Boston is flown via Stockholm, orginally NYO but they switched to ARN

About time...! MAN, that routing via Skavsta was STRANGE!! Never got it.. Btw YYZ and BOS - as previously mentioned in this thread - are served by 757's, but not only that, these a/c are in high-density Y216 config for a 752. Obviously, AY is targeting the O and D leisure market with these flights; keeping them fairly seperate from their other intercon IIRC.

Quoting Eastern023 (Reply 9):
I wonder if IAD would be profitable for them. Specially with the Asia connections.

AY's JFK service is not really there to support the Asian network; rather it's there to offer connections to the US via JFK (on AA) and of course JFK itself (if AY didn't do it, CO or AA would). You can also see this from the timings of the US flights, that don't match the bank of Asian flights in the afternoon. So, basically an IAD service should "stand on its own" for a large part, and that's not viable, also considering that pax it would cannibalize from JFK-HEL.

Quoting Wingedarrow (Reply 12):
I know Finnair follows Nokia closely and Nokia, which is maybe one of the most widely known Finnish brands in the world, has more relations with asian countries than it has with the US.

But as pointed out in another AY-related thread out there, AY doesn't make it's schedule according to whatever Nokia is doing! Nokia IS by far the most valuable Finnish brand, and no doubt a major AY customer and supporter of Asian routes - but still, despite of the size you don't see Nokia booking half of every MD11. AY's main customers for their long-haul also don't originate in HEL, but in Europe or Asia.

So much talk about AY here, wanna try them and their MD11's!!!  Wink

Kevin777
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wingedarrow
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 13):
AY doesn't make it's schedule according to whatever Nokia is doing!

I wouldn't be so sure... I'm only kidding, of course, mine was just an example to explain the Finnish interest to the east side of the world, they wouldn't keep on opening new routes in Asia if they weren't more than sure to be supported by the country's more important companies.

Anyway, as you said, Finnair customers are European and Asian mainly and they're happy with this, because they're siding the growth of two of the most important markets in the world - China and India - so that's only obvious if they don't care about the already inflated and swinging US market.

I never flew their MD11s, but the service they offer on the A320 family is one of the best in the world!!! Hyvaa matkaa!!!
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md90fan
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:37 am

AY previously served FLL and also SFO with MD-11 aircraft.
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UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 15):
AY previously served FLL and also SFO with MD-11 aircraft.

FLL was only a charter destination. SFO, however, was scheduled just like LAX and SEA were.
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MCOGVADCA
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:42 am

Did they fly to RSW at some point or is that just my imagination?
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jfk777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:28 am

Finnair's Intercontinental ops are with an Asian heart. Their MD-11's know Narita and Bangkok like second homes. China is big too.
 
walter747
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 7):
Boston

what a/c?
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Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:48 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 19):
Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 7):
Boston

what a/c?

With a high-density 752.... Y216 IIRC....  ill 

Kevin777
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UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 18):
Finnair's Intercontinental ops are with an Asian heart. Their MD-11's know Narita and Bangkok like second homes. China is big too.

Even though BKK is twice daily, it's the only scheduled destination in Thailand (HKT is a charter route). China is the by far the biggest destination (coutry-wise) for AY: PEK, PVG, CAN & HKG. In the summer schedule, on some days, all of these four Chinese flights leave HEL within 60 minutes!

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
With a high-density 752.... Y216 IIRC....

Exactly, since it's a charter route, not a scheduled destination.
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Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:06 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 21):
PEK, PVG, CAN & HKG. In the summer schedule, on some days, all of these four Chinese flights leave HEL within 60 minutes!

That is just so cool!!!

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 21):
Exactly, since it's a charter route, not a scheduled destination.

Yep. Never really got that route though - unsched to Boston via Stockholm (ARN) (and first NYO?!?!?). Is there some special relations between Finland/Sweden and Boston or?? Is the traffic maybe siginificantly originating in BOS or..?? What I am missing..???!!

Kevin777
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UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:11 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 22):
Yep. Never really got that route though - unsched to Boston via Stockholm (ARN) (and first NYO?!?!?). Is there some special relations between Finland/Sweden and Boston or?? Is the traffic maybe siginificantly originating in BOS or..?? What I am missing..???!!

I don't really get it either. But I guess it's just due to the fact that Europe-USA/Canada traffic is very high in the summer...
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airzim
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:11 am

I've taken the AY JFK-HEL service quite often. Before the new J seats were installed, Finnair reminded me of the old Swissair. First rate service, seats were OK but not stunning, IFE was very good. Of course they've upgraded the seats since I last flew them.

My understanding from several execs at AY, JFK is mainly a political route. Meaning, they want to keep a presence in American and New York is the only logical city. Although the big Nokia offices in the US are in Dallas. The route is break even at best, however the freight traffic makes the flight more palatable. They do carry quite a bit of Baltic and Russian traffic on the flights. I even remember the cabin crew informing the passengers in Russian and English on push back from JFK that "duty free alcohol" was not to be consumed in flight. Quite funny.

Asia is an extremely logical growth strategy for them. The flights to India may even make the JFK flight more promising since transiting FRA or HEL is not much difference. SK has always been the neighboring menace, but AY has carved out a very nice niche market for themselves. Coupled with great service and reliability, they are a first class carrier.
 
Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 24):
The flights to India may even make the JFK flight more promising since transiting FRA or HEL is not much difference.

Well if you read reply 13:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 13):
AY's JFK service is not really there to support the Asian network; rather it's there to offer connections to the US via JFK (on AA) and of course JFK itself (if AY didn't do it, CO or AA would). You can also see this from the timings of the US flights, that don't match the bank of Asian flights in the afternoon

Kevin777
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cedarjet
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:58 am

The daily flight to Kennedy does pretty well actually - those MD11s go out full every single day (and that's a lot of seats - Finnair pack em in ten abreast!) and it's mostly Russians who make it worthwhile. The yields may not be amazing but a year-round LF close to 100% IS amazing. San Francisco has the second biggest Russian population in the USA after NYC, which is why it was a scheduled destination for Finnair for a while. Finnair really are a great alternative to Aeroflot and Delta for trans-Atlantic flying to and from Moscow / Saint Petersburg and rely heavily on Russian traffic.

I've flown Finnair's HEL-JFK-HEL route (and yes, it was full both ways with Russians) and it was a nice service. J class on the way out which was sweet, each pax got a gift, and I remember a fantastic meal. Ten abreast in Y on the way home to Europe was fine too, I guess the seats are only an inch and a half narrower than they would be on a nine abreast config, and I'm quite thin so it really was quite comfortable.
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airzim
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 25):
Quoting Airzim (Reply 24):
The flights to India may even make the JFK flight more promising since transiting FRA or HEL is not much difference.

Well if you read reply 13:

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 13):
AY's JFK service is not really there to support the Asian network; rather it's there to offer connections to the US via JFK (on AA) and of course JFK itself (if AY didn't do it, CO or AA would). You can also see this from the timings of the US flights, that don't match the bank of Asian flights in the afternoon

Kevin777

So funny when people are so sure of themselves.

First off, I was speculating.

Secondly, the India flights time very nicely with the US inbound (arrival at 9am, departure at 2pm) No different than transiting any other hub in Europe.

Third, I agree it makes no sense for the rest of East Asia, when you can go nonstop from NY already to most destinations.

Fourth, the Indian VFR traffic is consistently strong, and fairly discretionary. A family going home to India would easily select Finnair over LH if the price is right. The travel time is not much different either.
 
Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 27):
So funny when people are so sure of themselves.

Eh.... sorry if you took my comment as offensive, I was merely asking you to reflect on the comments already made on the subject along with posting your view, that's all...  Smile

Quoting Airzim (Reply 27):
Secondly, the India flights time very nicely with the US inbound (arrival at 9am, departure at 2pm)

Wouldn't say "very nicely" though... and it's 8 hours in the other direction..

Quoting Airzim (Reply 27):
A family going home to India would easily select Finnair over LH if the price is right.

Of course, if the price is right, but that will always be a somewhat "soft" argument... What is the right price?..

Kevin777
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UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting Airzim (Reply 24):
My understanding from several execs at AY, JFK is mainly a political route. Meaning, they want to keep a presence in American and New York is the only logical city.

JFK definitely NOT a political route. AY is a stock market company, not state-controlled. Pax yield is, of course, not high, but cargo is 100 % full and the pax load factor is around 85 %.

Actually AY has to lease additional cargo space from Emirates SkyCargo (GOT-JFK) and they will start a joint cargo route (also GOT-JFK) with Cargolux: Finnair opens new cargo route to New York.
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FFlyer
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 29):
AY is a stock market company, not state-controlled

What do you mean? The government owns the majority, so they have the control!

It has also been a long-time tradition in Finland to appoint politicians as the board members and executives at Finnair.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:41 pm

Is AY not serving MIA b/c of the NRT 757 flight?

MCOflyer
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UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 30):
What do you mean? The government owns the majority, so they have the control!

Are you saying that the shareholders vote on where Finnair should or should not fly?
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Kevin777
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 31):
Is AY not serving MIA b/c of the NRT 757 flight?

The 757 to NRT was never really meant to happen.. it was only scheduled for some technical reason because the 343 weren't ready yet (IIRC). There's a HUGE thread about the NRT 757 out there!!...

Kevin777  Smile
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Lufthansa747
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 13):
Y216 config for a 752

Y227

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 31):
Is AY not serving MIA b/c of the NRT 757 flight?

NRT is 4pw 343
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FFlyer
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 32):
Are you saying that the shareholders vote on where Finnair should or should not fly?

I only referred to your "stock market company - not state controlled" comment. If somebody owns a majority of the stock, he has the control. That is also possible with lower ownership percentages, of course.

The shareholders select the Board, and the Board decides about the company strategy. So, in a way the shareholders also decide about the routing. But, come on, in Finland there is the inner circle of a few guys and girls who run the country, and everything is tied together, and everything is political. Works quite well, I guess.
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: What Are Finnair's Cities In The US?

Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 35):
The shareholders select the Board, and the Board decides about the company strategy. So, in a way the shareholders also decide about the routing.

Correct, I assume.
And all Finns vote on who runs the country. So, in a way, the Finns also decide about the routing.
 stirthepot 
 Wink
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