KarlB737
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Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:16 pm

Courtesy: The Detroit News

Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...e?AID=/20061104/BIZ/611040352/1001
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Great news for Detroit (DTW/ YIP) if it all comes together.

With YIP's longest runway at just over 7500', I'm sure a runway extension at YIP would be needed for a heavily loaded 742F to make it to ANC or beyond.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:09 am

It will never happen at YIP...Kalitta is now crying for longer runways and NW will need them for ANC, Europe and the Orient. How about Selfridge in Macomb county?
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Humberside
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:14 am

What flights are there at YIP at the moment?
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legend11
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:28 am

How about TOL. Bax Global has a 220,000 sq ft sort facility and a 50 acre ramp along side a 10000ft rwy. The facility was built by the city and leased to BAX, which has an operation much smaller than back in the 90's.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:46 am

It would make more sense at DTW, remember some "CARGO" does go on NW mainline flights.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:09 am

Interesting concept if it were to come to head. DTW has the space to make it happen, YIP is lacking the runways. The deal-breaker is getting decent rail access, which both airports have adjacent to their property.

Selfridge isn't even realistic, since its military-controlled.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:26 am

Cargo goes on both passenger and cargo aircraft, for the sake of connectivity, such a facility can only be at DTW. YIP does not stand a chance, not only because of runway lenght.

Interesting to know what good a railspur would do. Rail and air does not interchangem at least not in the US. Here in Europe, we have some projects, it ha sbeen done between Germany/Switzerland and Northern Italy and there might be a cargo TGV in France some time in the future. Possible as well for the connection between the new DHL hub in LEJ and FRA, but in the US?



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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
With YIP's longest runway at just over 7500', I'm sure a runway extension at YIP would be needed for a heavily loaded 742F to make it to ANC or beyond.

I brought this up a few times recently. NWA Cargo is planning to expand it's scheduled cargo network to AMS, FRA, and one other city in Europe to fly cargo to and from India. The plan is to eventually get rid of the Berry IT, and replace it with a Cargo handling facility at metro.
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Indy
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:59 pm

Heck NW should just open a larger cargo center here at IND. We have the runways in place and the huge facility that the US Postal Service used to use as their express mail hub. There is nearby rail access as well as easy access to I-70, I-69, I-74 and I-65.
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Avianca
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
Cargo goes on both passenger and cargo aircraft, for the sake of connectivity, such a facility can only be at DTW

NW should currently not have much cargo that is transfered from Cargo only flights to mainline flights in DTW.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 8):
NWA Cargo is planning to expand it's scheduled cargo network to AMS, FRA, and one other city in Europe to fly cargo to and from India.

interesting information, any news when flights would be started? currently NW has not a strong cargo presence in Europe, what till today I do not understand why NW Cargo has in some European stations still own offices, for example FRA, in FRA they have a own station just selling the FRA flight as the AMS flights are sold by AF/KL Cargo, wouldnt it make sense that also AF/KL sells the FRA flight?

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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
interesting information, any news when flights would be started?

It wouldn't be possible until NWA Cargo acquires more 747F's. They're going to retire 2 freighters next year with maybe a possible 3rd late in the 4th quarter. So it might be a little while, until some more equipment becomes available, which would coincide with the building of a facility at DTW.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
currently NW has not a strong cargo presence in Europe, what till today I do not understand why NW Cargo has in some European stations still own offices, for example FRA, in FRA they have a own station just selling the FRA flight as the AMS flights are sold by AF/KL Cargo, wouldnt it make sense that also AF/KL sells the FRA flight?

Well, for many years, NWA Cargo flew contracts for Seaboard World, Flying Tigers in the 1970's and 80's for a long time in and out of FRA. And with the alliance with KLM, it would only make sense to use the AMS hub and exploit the open skies agreement with India. With only operating a single daily passenger service to and from India, you're only using half the market potential.

Quoting Indy (Reply 9):
Heck NW should just open a larger cargo center here at IND.

They would be invading FX turf which would ignite a fued over the non-compete agreement with them over the Memphis operation. FX carries alot of cargo in and out of MEM for us.
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Indy
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:44 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
They would be invading FX turf which would ignite a fued over the non-compete agreement with them over the Memphis operation. FX carries alot of cargo in and out of MEM for us.

Ah ok. I was not aware of that agreement. But makes perfect sense.
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detroitflyer
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 2):
How about Selfridge in Macomb county?

thats not possible, i believe selfridge is a millitary base.
DTW would be amazing
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PanHAM
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):

NW should currently not have much cargo that is transfered from Cargo only flights to mainline flights in DTW

They carry cargo on the passenger flights to/from Asia and Europe as well, it would not make sense to split up such operaitons. Whatever the percentage is between cargo and passenger flights, it goes into the same warehouse. A YIP operation would be a duplicaiton of costs.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
W Cargo has in some European stations still own offices, for example FRA, in FRA they have a own station just selling the FRA flight as the AMS flights are sold

they have a good sales team here, integrating them into AF/KL would possibly be a problem, firing them expensive, with a 6 digit compensation for long time employees. As long as they are in the black, why change?
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m404
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:17 pm

JetJack

So with 3 of 12 freighters gone by that estimate what plans have you heard about new freighters? Obviously NW doesn't envision a new cargo center with nine planes. I just hope they don't ask for a state loan to build it with someone elses money. Getting the same bank that backed the new DTW terminal might be interesting.
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tjwgrr
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:58 pm

Headline in not so distant future: (?)

NW to acquire 10 748i and convert 10 existing 744 to freighters.

.... perhaps wishful thinking.
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Avianca
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
They carry cargo on the passenger flights to/from Asia and Europe as well, it would not make sense to split up such operaitons. Whatever the percentage is between cargo and passenger flights, it goes into the same warehouse. A YIP operation would be a duplicaiton of costs.

what is there a lot of cargo that connects from the current freighter schedule to the passengers flights, I doubt it as the freighter flights are already re-loaded in Alaska for example, and the little cargo that arrives from ASIA and should connect to an european flight could use only pax flights.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
they have a good sales team here, integrating them into AF/KL would possibly be a problem, firing them expensive, with a 6 digit compensation for long time employees. As long as they are in the black, why change?

well no doubt the guys are good, but on the other hand it is not difficult to sell the space for 1 flight, were already lot of forwarders will use them even without any proactive selling. using different warehouses, different offices, etc etc should be cost on middle-term lot of more than integrate the guys the the AF/KL team.
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PanHAM
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 17):

what is there a lot of cargo that connects from the current freighter schedule to the passengers flights, I doubt it as the freighter flights are already re-loaded in Alaska for example, and the little cargo that arrives from ASIA and should connect to an european flight could use only pax flights.

you are missing my point. The trans shipment hub for the freighters is in ANC, alright. What I said is that NW carries freight on the 747Fs as well as on their passenger flights. It makes good sense to feed into one cargo termical, which should logically be at DTW and not at YIP.
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Avianca
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
you are missing my point. The trans shipment hub for the freighters is in ANC, alright. What I said is that NW carries freight on the 747Fs as well as on their passenger flights. It makes good sense to feed into one cargo termical, which should logically be at DTW and not at YIP.

yes it would make sense to use for both operations 1 cargo terminal, but it is not such essential, it would also work with 2 different airports without any problem. Airlines like AF or LH would have much more problems splitting the Cargo Hubs like we already often heared (FRA - LEJ) in case of LH
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PanHAM
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
yes it would make sense to use for both operations 1 cargo terminal, but it is not such essential, it would also work with 2 different airports without any problem. Airlines like AF or LH would have much more problems splitting the Cargo Hubs like we already often heared (FRA - LEJ) in case of L

sorry, but LH has a far greater international operation than NW has at DTW. LEJ is a DHL operation and right now DHL trucks its international transfer that go on scheduled flights from BRU to FRA, that will shift to LEJ/FRA. NW works for DHL as well with a ILN-ANC/ Far east 747F.

LH has split cargo ops already a long time ago between FRA and CGN.
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COSPN
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:44 am

The Former USPS Express Mail Ramp and warehouse are Vacant at IND, with Interstate and Rail ready to go, wht re-invent the wheel ???
 
D L X
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
YIP does not stand a chance, not only because of runway lenght.

The ironic thing was that the powers that be in the area built DTW with the belief that Willow Run (YIP) would be used for cargo, and DTW would be used for passengers.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 11):
They would be invading FX turf which would ignite a fued over the non-compete agreement with them over the Memphis operation. FX carries alot of cargo in and out of MEM for us.

Sounds like an antitrust violation...
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:30 am

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 13):
thats not possible, i believe selfridge is a millitary base.

DHL has their west coast hub at March ARB. So it's possible.
 
Indy
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:55 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 22):
Sounds like an antitrust violation...

Why would that be an antitrust violation?
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D L X
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 24):
Why would that be an antitrust violation?

Without knowing more about the specific arrangement, I can tell you that any unreasonable agreement to restrict trade is a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act. The honus will be on the companies to prove their agreement is reasonable.

A violation generally occurs when company A and company B "divide" a market, by saying "I won't compete with you there if you don't compete with me here."
 
Indy
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:13 pm

Its likely not an issue since the two companies are different types of companies. One is a cargo carrier and the other is a passenger carrier with a relatively small cargo operation. Now had it been between Fedex and UPS you'd have a case.
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jetjack74
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RE: Northwest Ponders Cargo Center At DTW Or YIP

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:04 pm

Quoting M404 (Reply 15):
So with 3 of 12 freighters gone by that estimate what plans have you heard about new freighters? Obviously NW doesn't envision a new cargo center with nine planes.

Well, there's talk that NWA maybe negotiating a deal with another cargo carrier(such as Polar or Atlas) to wet lease a few aircraft and their crews to take up the slack with the loss of these aircraft. It is expected that the current 747F fleet will eventually be replaced with 744F's from the 2nd hand market.

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 13):
thats not possible, i believe selfridge is a millitary base.
DTW would be amazing

Well with the the 927th ARW losing it's KC-135R's the 4th ARS down at McDill AFB and March ARB, and the the bases C-130 squadron's future up in the air, who knows what could happen. But a snowballs chance in hell has a better chance the NWA using it.

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 16):
NW to acquire 10 748i and convert 10 existing 744 to freighters.

Very wishful thinking.
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