FWAERJ
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Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:22 am

We all know that Emirates has cancelled their A340-600 order, and that EK has said that "another airline has picked up our A346 slots". Could that airline be US Airways?

After all, all the pieces of the puzzle are in place:
-US is a very loyal Airbus customer
-US needs more widebodies
-US would need longer-range widebodies for serving PHX-Europe and PHL/CLT-Asia (if they decide to go to Asia)

And the A346 fits the bill well. Despite the type's higher fuel burn compared to the B773ER, the A346 has many advantages for US, including (but not limited to) cockpit commonality with US's A333 fleet and lower fleet integration costs. Plus, Airbus will probably offer a good discount to sell these planes, as the A346 hasn't exactly been selling like hotcakes.

Your thoughts?
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haggis79
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:32 am

most unlikely in my opinion.... the A346 is too large for them in my opinion... plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision). I would see get them A332s before 346s...
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
vega
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):

A 400 passenger aircraft is probably just too big for US's strategic plans. If they were 340/300s, it would be within the realm of (slight) possibility. If US were to strike a deal with AB, it would more likely be for early delivery of some 332s.
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boeingfever777
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:41 am

And fly it where that would be profitable for them?

NRT, HKG, PEK...? I don't think US airways has rights to fly there.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
pilot21
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision).

No US airlines fly the A346, and it's cabin width is the same as the A330 family, so why would it's reputation amongst US travellers be top of US airways list of why not to get the A346?

Anyway, returning to the original question, this isn't going to happen:

1) It is strongly rumoured (on A.net) that some of the A346's will go to the Leasing Company EK has set up in Dubai. If that isn't the case, then Virgin Blue has been a rumored, followed by Qatar, but until Airbus lets us know who as taken over some of these slots, we won't fully know.
2) US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery which will fit what they need fine. PHX isn't being looked at for Europe flights for a while, again according to A.net sources, but that could change.

Bottom line, it's too big a plane for what US airways needs, and it ain't going to happen.
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vega
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery

2009/2010
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pilot21
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 5):
2009/2010

Thanks, I knew it was a few yrs hence, just was too lazy to look it up  Smile
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers (might also play a role in such a decision).

While U.S. passengers have overwhelmingly rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics, there is nothing to suggest that American passengers dislike the A340 cabin...

EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:55 am

If they weren't good enough for TAM, another loyal Airbus customer, then I can't see why US Airways will find them suitable, unless Airbus give them an even better deal than they must have offered TAM
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.

SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too! 

I think between us we named them all no?

[Edited 2006-11-05 00:05:52]
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steeler83
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:05 am

I just don't see how or where the A340 would fit in US' business/network plan. I believe US is looking for more aircraft that are more economical than the A340 when it comes to PHX-Europe or PHL/CLT/PIT/PHX - Asia. (I thought I'd humor myself in throwing PIT in there. We can dream, can't we?)
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ahlfors
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.
SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too! 

I think between us we named them all no?

Don't forget JM, EY, RJ, OA, TK, SA and I would guess there is more to the list.
 
onedude
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:26 am

There is also a *rumour* that Virgin Blue could select the A346 if delivery slots are now available that weren't previously, for their trans-pacific runs.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
US needs more widebodies

US does not need more widebodies, at least not of the capacity of the 346 nor of its range.

Quoting Vega (Reply 5):
Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
US airways don't need a plane that large or with that range. They have A332's on order for 2008/2009 delivery

2009/2010

The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
XXXX10
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:35 am

I presume that these aircraft are not yet built, if so then they are just delvery positions. Could airbus just build them as A330s rather than A340s?

I relaise that they would have to make other arrangements for the engines and also that they have would a few extra frames to deal with.
 
centrair
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 3):
NRT, HKG, PEK...? I don't think US airways has rights to fly there.

Technically NRT and PEK no. NRT has no slots and PEK needs govt approval. I beleive they can fly to HKG anytime with just basic approval. They can fly to ICN, NGO, CTS, KIX, HKG, PUS, MNL, SIN, BKK and a few others if they wanted to. I believe with the A332 they would be restricted to Japan and maybe Korea. They need a plane with legs to go further and they have no 5th freedom rights. This is where the A350 would come in nicely. It could be deployed on Pacific or Atlantic routes.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
vega
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.
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mah584jr
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):
Bottom line, it's too big a plane for what US airways needs, and it ain't going to happen.

I know for a fact that the gates at PHL are not certified for A346, so they'd have to park at the deicing stand anyways.

LH flew a 346 to PHL as a sub for the 343 one time this past year and that's what they had to do.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Onedude (Reply 12):
There is also a *rumour* that Virgin Blue could select the A346 if delivery slots are now available that weren't previously, for their trans-pacific runs.

Just looking at the comparative operating abilities of the A340-600 and the 777-300ER . One of Widebody’s tables shows a hypothetical 6000nm mission. See http://theaviationspecialist.com/350-550_mission_table.gif
The 300ER has a payload advantage of about 5650lb with a fuel burn of more than 5% less. It is not too hard to figure the comparative fuel costs of the two types from the data in the table.
A search of the web gives the price of fuel at about $US1.77 a USG right now. If you extrapolate this at a daily utilisation of 15 hours per day over 10 years the difference in fuel cost between the two types is very significant.
It would be my view that Toll ( the major stock holder in DJ) could generate premium freight revenue probably in excess of economy class passenger rates per pound/kilo. Thus they could chase yield by setting up the type at about 280 to 300 passengers. Consolidators are quoting typically about $US1200 to carry a 205lb of passenger and baggage round trip LAX-SYD. That works out at about $US3.00 per pound one way. Seems to me Express airfreight is in the order of $50.00 per a one pound parcel. Quite a spread!
 
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yyz717
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org
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boeingfever777
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:02 am

None of the destinations make sense... No profit in them for US.

HKG is a BIG maybe/if.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 15):
This is where the A350 would come in nicely. It could be deployed on Pacific or Atlantic routes.

Yeah in around 2014 or so.
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vega
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 19):
Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org

Suggest you carefully review the US Airways 2005 Annual Report filed with the SEC in early 2006. Your assertion is incorrect.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
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Dalavia
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 11):
Don't forget JM, EY, RJ, OA, TK, SA and I would guess there is more to the list.

Also, CX fly the 346 from HKG to JFK.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 21):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 19):
Quoting Vega (Reply 16):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

Please provide your source.

aerotransport.org

Suggest you carefully review the US Airways 2005 Annual Report filed with the SEC in early 2006. Your assertion is incorrect.

aerotransport.org is updated regularly. The US annual report is dated. I will follow the most up-to-date source.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
walter747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:34 am

i wish they would fly the 346.

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 17):
know for a fact that the gates at PHL are not certified for A346, so they'd have to park at the deicing stand anyways.

they can fix that.


US could use it from PHX- Europe or even PHL, CLT, or PHX- asia or even australia.
Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
 
A330323X
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 23):
aerotransport.org is updated regularly.

That's why they provide inaccurate fleet numbers (some wildly so) for US's current fleet, and claim that US is still responsible for 727s and F100s that it ceased having any ties to during its first bankruptcy?  Yeah sure
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
gigneil
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:35 pm

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 4):

No US airlines fly the A346, and it's cabin width is the same as the A330 family, so why would it's reputation amongst US travellers be top of US airways list of why not to get the A346?

I assure you, the plane has no reputation amongst US travellers of any kind one way or the other.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
US does not need more widebodies, at least not of the capacity of the 346 nor of its range.

While I agree on the latter, we disagree on the former. They need new planes and they need to get them deployed. The domestic market is not the place to be.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
The 332 order has been postponed indefinitely. No delivery dates are confirmed.

They absolutely have been. 2009 is when. The specific dates may not be public domain but we have copious evidence that they are, in fact, on the way.

NS
 
walter747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 26):
I assure you, the plane has no reputation amongst US travellers of any kind one way or the other.

who is gonna care what plane they are on. (besides people like this community)

if you ask a cousin sister dad the difference between the 744 and the 346, their not gonna know and their not relly gonna care.
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cactushp
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:57 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 27):
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 26):
I assure you, the plane has no reputation amongst US travellers of any kind one way or the other.

who is gonna care what plane they are on. (besides people like this community)

But i'm sure those same people would care which aircraft is more comfortable for the passenger. That would play a role in US decision making process.
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MEACEDAR
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:58 pm

Doubt it, but you maybe right. I think it might be BA because they were wanting to change some of their widebodies.
 
gigneil
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting CactusHP (Reply 28):
But i'm sure those same people would care which aircraft is more comfortable for the passenger.

Either the A340-600 or 777-300ER are the most comfortable aircraft in the sky today.

NS
 
whappeh
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:03 pm

I wish, but I don't see this happening.

I think the A346 would look hot in the new US colours.
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PM
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:06 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
While U.S. passengers have overwhelmingly rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics

?! In what possible sense have passengers rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics? It's airlines who buy planes, not passengers.
 
ZKNBX
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
the A346 is too large for them in my opinion...

I agree. Too large for US Airways.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
U.S. passengers have overwhelmingly rejected the A340 on the basis of its economics, there is nothing to suggest that American passengers dislike the A340 cabin...

I think you mean, US operators have overwhelming rejected, and nothing to suggest that American passengers dislike!

I also think the A346 is likely bound for DJ + other operator(s)
 
walter747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting CactusHP (Reply 28):
But i'm sure those same people would care which aircraft is more comfortable for the passenger. That would play a role in US decision making process.

thats true but its the way the airline or in this case US, how they decided to fill the aircraft with.
Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:53 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 1):
plus it's not having a good reputation in the US among travellers

I've not heard that the 340 has a bad reputation among US travelers. Heck, I don't think we even get to fly them enough to have much of an opinion on the subject. And isn't the 340 pretty much a 330 with extra engines? I think the public and the airlines who fly them like the 330

So, I'm curious, what is the basis for this statement? (This isn't an anetter's challenge, I'm just interested to hear the info on why US passengers don't like the 340)
 
laca773
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:25 pm

The only complaint I've ever heard from a few friends who have flown on VS's 346 from LAX-LHR is the damn thing takes forever to rotate and they noticed it makes people very nervous.
Otherwise, people seem to like it because of how quiet it is.
LACA773
 
bsu747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:00 pm

If US were to get the A346 and operate them out of PHX how would they fare in the summer months at PHX on take off with the time it takes for an A346 to rotate, would it be payload restricted?
Flying may not be all plain sailing, but the fun of it is worth the price.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:05 pm

With the lack on A330's in the market the only sensible aircraft for US Airways to use on new long haul routes should they choose to go down that route is the A340-300 until their own A330-200's come on tap from airbus.

Even though these aircrafts are not plentiful in the used market there are some available or coming on line from the likes of AC, CP and GF.

These are the only true and feasible aircraft that US Airways would operate from the East Coast of the US to Asia and operate from PHX to Asia without weight restrictions - even the 332 would be severely weight restricted from PHX to Asia)

Range from PHL for an A340-300


Range from PHX for an A340-300
 
B707Stu
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 11):
Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
EK, LH, AF, SK, and others all fly the A340 to U.S. destinations.
SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too!

I think between us we named them all no?

Don't forget JM, EY, RJ, OA, TK, SA and I would guess there is more to the list.

IB twice daily to JFK and other places!
 
jfk777
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:44 am

The A340-600 is TOO BIG fro USairways. They also don't have Rolls Trent engines in the fleet do they would be intoducing a new engine type too. Where would they fly the monster ? No good answers for US with this plane.
 
walter747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 40):
Where would they fly the monster ?

asia and oceiania and europe
Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
 
PADSpot
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
"another airline has picked up our A346 slots".

Ehmm. This statement does not imply that someone else has actually ORDERED new airplanes. It could just mean that existing A346 customers could just get their existing orders earlier ??? LH, QR ... etc.
 
mk777
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:52 am

is US going to enter Indian cities. I think PHL-DEL/BOM would do quite well, but do they really need an A346 for that? It would be nice to see another A346 in DEL though now that VS has upgraded from 343 to 346 from LHR-DEL for the busy winter months.
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gigneil
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:13 am

I'll go ahead and say it: those range charts for PHX and PHL are overly aggressive. An A340-300 would not comfortably fly PHX-SYD or a lot of those Asian destinations and the same goes for PHL to pretty much anywhere beyond ICN and northern China.

It would, however, provide expansion. But my argument continues that no such expansion is necessary for right now.

NS
 
rootsair
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 8):
If they weren't good enough for TAM, another loyal Airbus customer, then I can't see why US Airways will find them suitable, unless Airbus give them an even better deal than they must have offered TAM

TAM is already going for the 777-300 ER a direct competitor to the A346. Hence knowing TAM's strategic planes they would not go for both types.
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
Cessna057
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
SQ, VS, MU, & TG all do too!

CX HKG-JFK
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Carpethead
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:42 am

Are any of US's hubs capable of handling the length of the A346?
Gates and taxiways need to be compatible more than anything else.
 
walter747
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 47):
Are any of US's hubs capable of handling the length of the A346?
Gates and taxiways need to be compatible more than anything else.

PHX maybe or CLT. PHL could probably accomadate it. Well i hope they get them. love to the the 346 in us c/s
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steeler83
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RE: Could US Airways Be Picking Up EK's A346s?

Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 47):
Are any of US's hubs capable of handling the length of the A346?
Gates and taxiways need to be compatible more than anything else.

PIT has the facilities, but it's no longer a hub...  stirthepot 
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