keesje
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Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:35 am

Today Tim Clark is speaking out on the large EK A380 order also, after sending auditors, complaining on overweight and announcing he cancelled A340 orders a few weeks back..

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10080756.html
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:51 am

From the article:

"Compensation is not our target, what we really seek is to give a chance for Airbus to deliver what they promised so that we can assess, because we need that aircraft," Tim Clark, president of Emirates told Gulf News at the World Travel Market in London yesterday.

"We do not seek to strike a balance between aircraft manufacturers, we only need to get what we want, and when we place an order we seek that the manufacturer succeeds because at the end of the day this comes in our interest."

"What induces us to wait for the A380 is that we want it to be a top-rated aircraft, and two years is not a long time in this industry," he said.


Interesting comments as Clark has been alleged to be seeking further compensation, to be threatening to cancel their order, to be moving towards an all-Airbus or all-Boeing fleet, etc. etc. etc.

What stood out was the comment regarding 2 years delay and that timeframe being relatively insignificant in the aviation industry.

I wonder if we shall hear more news from EK that could contradict this latest statement as it seems like new news emerges from EK on a weekly basis.

-YVRtoYYZ
 
khobar
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:08 am

"What we really seek is to give a chance for Airbus to deliver what they promised so that we can assess..."

Assess? Sounds to me he's saying he wants to wait until Airbus actually delivers the aircraft before determining what the overall compensation is. That doesn't sound right.

"We do not seek to strike a balance between aircraft manufacturers, we only need to get what we want, and when we place an order we seek that the manufacturer succeeds because at the end of the day this comes in our interest."

Eh? I get what he means, but it's an odd way to say it.

"Clark declared that Emirates won't bid for a stake in any carrier, citing names such as Alitalia, Olympus, and others."

Olympus???

I'm sorry if my comments are out of line. I don't know a whole lot about Mr. Clark or whether this is how he usually comes across, but to me it just seems very oddly worded for what's supposed to be direct quotes.
 
redflyer
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:10 am

EK has 45 WhaleJets on order. That is around 24,000 seats. What exactly is their alternative if they decide to cancel? If they swap the order for 748i's, they are going to have to wait just as long, if not longer.

They really don't have much choice at this juncture except to hold on to the WhaleJet's star, even if that star is falling. As the old adage goes, they made their bed; now they're going to have to sleep in it.
My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
 
dank
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 3):
EK has 45 WhaleJets on order. That is around 24,000 seats. What exactly is their alternative if they decide to cancel? If they swap the order for 748i's, they are going to have to wait just as long, if not longer.

 checkmark  and it won't give them the seats that they want if they are truly interested in loading up some of these 380s. This also jives with why EK wants a shorter 748i (and why I don't get the LH interest in the longer one). EK isn't interested in a plane closing in on the size of the 380. If anything they want something that can carry more people than the 773ER, but with great range.

cheers.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 1):
What stood out was the comment regarding 2 years delay and that timeframe being relatively insignificant in the aviation industry.

While EK's traffic continues to grow significantly (something like 20% a year), and certainly the A388 will be a welcome addition to the fleet to help carry that, they do seem to be doing fine with their current fleet of Boeing and Airbus widebodies and are able to get additional Boeing widebodies (773ERs) quickly enough. So it seems reasonable to me that while the A388 delays are annoying, they are not having a dramatically negative effect on EK's current financials.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 2):
Assess? Sounds to me he's saying he wants to wait until Airbus actually delivers the aircraft before determining what the overall compensation is. That doesn't sound right.

It does to me, since until the plane has an EK configuration and is flying EK routes, they don't really know what it can or cannot do vis-a-vis the guarantees. If the result is good, it is in Airbus' interests to wait as the compensation will be lower. If the result is poor, it is in EK's interests to wait as the compensation will be higher.
 
leelaw
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 1):
I wonder if we shall hear more news from EK that could contradict this latest statement as it seems like new news emerges from EK on a weekly basis.

I agree. After an uncharacteristic four-month hiatus over the summer, Tim Clark's often contradictory verbal diarrhea has resumed with a vengeance. Sometime you have to sift through a lot of ore to mine a diamond.  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Adria
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 1):
What stood out was the comment regarding 2 years delay and that timeframe being relatively insignificant in the aviation industry.

Nothing surprising there...EK is not buying 45 A380s for a couple of years...

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 3):
EK has 45 WhaleJets on order. That is around 24,000 seats. What exactly is their alternative if they decide to cancel? If they swap the order for 748i's, they are going to have to wait just as long, if not longer.

To get an 40 years old design instead of a totally new one? This would be a bad deal...
 
khobar
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
It does to me, since until the plane has an EK configuration and is flying EK routes, they don't really know what it can or cannot do vis-a-vis the guarantees. If the result is good, it is in Airbus' interests to wait as the compensation will be lower. If the result is poor, it is in EK's interests to wait as the compensation will be higher.

I was thinking in terms of what he prefaced the comment with: "Compensation is not our target." Your response does make good sense and provides a different perspective on the comments.

Last week, however, EK was commenting on how much the A380 was over weight and how EK was sending its own audit team to enter "talks" with Airbus to address the A380 two-year delay and weight issue. At that time Clark commented that the delays were costing the airline "hundreds of millions of dollars" in lost revenue.

Just is interesting how his tune seems to have changed in just a week.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:43 am

Old Timmy is prone to a few rants isn't he? It seems after he's shot his mouth off and realised he's shot himself in the foot at the same time, he comes out with another comment to try and shore up his position once again.

This rather conciliatory tone tells you that he is aware that he'd previously played his hand to Boeing by trashing airbus. Now he needs to show Boeing that he is happpy with Airbus to keep them hungry. Every other shrewd business man would keep all cards close to their chest till the last minute.

Is it the sun that is cooking his head or something else?

One is dying to take what he says as gospel but it just isn't worth it. Bless him
 
Adria
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 8):
Just is interesting how his tune seems to have changed in just a week.

Or this is typical politics to force the competition for a better deal?
 
khobar
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 10):
Or this is typical politics to force the competition for a better deal?

To me it sounded like Singapore Air right after they and Airbus reached agreement for more A380's, some A350's, and interim A330's.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Khobar (Reply 2):
Sounds to me he's saying he wants to wait until Airbus actually delivers the aircraft before determining what the overall compensation is. That doesn't sound right.

It does sound right. That's the way guarantees normally work. You evaluate the product you get vs was what was promised and then total up the compensation required. EK doesn't even have a firm A380 delivery date yet. How can they determine the compensation due?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 7):
To get an 40 years old design instead of a totally new one? This would be a bad deal...

So why is the "40 year design" crushing the "new" design in the freighter department (egarding the pax department we'll see what happens)

Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?
"Up the Irons!"
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 9):
Old Timmy is prone to a few rants isn't he?

In every industry, there are certain CEOs who like to be in the news everyday, out of hubris or just to keep their company in the headlines.

Clark is one of those guys. And because he made that giant order for A380s, he won himself the right to be listened to every time he speaks.

It doesn't mean he always has something worthwhile to say, however...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NAV20
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 7):
To get an 40 years old design instead of a totally new one?

I think, Adria, that it will become clear in later years that the choice is actually between a good design and a mediocre one.

Lots of designs last. There are still numbers of DC3 Dakotas (a 70-year-old design) still flying and still earning their keep. The 737 has been flying (and succeeding commercially) since 1967. The basic design of the Rolls-Royce Trent engine was finalised in 1970...........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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glideslope
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting Khobar (Reply 2):
Assess? Sounds to me he's saying he wants to wait until Airbus actually delivers the aircraft before determining what the overall compensation is. That doesn't sound right.

What he is saying is, IMO, If we could trust Airbus even remotely, we would be ok.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
trent900
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:33 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
So why is the "40 year design" crushing the "new" design in the freighter department (egarding the pax department we'll see what happens)

Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?

I undertstand what your saying here but everyone has to remember Airbus is still a young company compared with Boeing. Even if your more on B's side you've got to admit A have done very well considering their age and the competition.

Is the 748 actually a new design though? And as Mr. Clark has been saying airlines do need the 380. Boeing would not be able to extend the 748 to carry as many punters, so they are different aircraft for different missions.

D.
 
Adria
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
So why is the "40 year design" crushing the "new" design in the freighter department (egarding the pax department we'll see what happens)

Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?

There are going to be more 747Fs than A380Fs but since there are many 744 pax I think we will see more conversions instead of new orders for the 747-8F. But in the pax market the A380 at this stage is clearly ahead...

Don't forget that the A320 has survived two generations of 737s so Boeing didn't manage to "crush" the A320 even with the "new" NG. Since the production rate for the A320 is higher than for the 737 and since it outsold the 737 in 2005 (we don't know what will happen this year) the 737 is slowly losing ground...
 
Danny
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?

There is nothing to support this claim. Classic 737 were well beaten by A320, then Boeing came up with NG and only managed to achieve balance on that market.
 
supa7E7
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:34 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 17):
Is the 748 actually a new design though? And as Mr. Clark has been saying airlines do need the 380.

Premium airlines like EK and SQ need the 380. Massive space for king size premium products.

For more normal airlines like LH, the 748i has enough space for the same mission. All while burning less fuel.

It's all a big battle of 400-500 seaters. 747 on the economy end and A380 on the luxury end. So the A380 operators thirst for its luxury, not its larger-than-747 seat count. JMO.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
jasond
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:48 pm

Not totally unsurprising, afterall airlines make money by (believe it or not) having aircraft in the air earning revenue, it is their core business. Emirates believe they can make money on certain routes from the A380 in the long term so they will stick with it, there is no interpretation required in Mr Clark's comments.
 
PEK18R36L
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 17):
I undertstand what your saying here but everyone has to remember Airbus is still a young company compared with Boeing.

You could say Airbus is a young company. You could also say - with equal accuracy - that Airbus in one form or another has been manufacturing aircraft almost continuously since before World War I.

In France, IIRC, Airbus' heiritage can be traced back to a dozen hallowed names in Aviation history, including Louis Bleriot and his eponymous firm, all the way through the mergers of 1936-1937 that gave us SFECMAS, SNCAN, Sud-Est and Sud-Oest, then the creation of Nord Aviation in 1954 from the first two and Sud Aviation from the latter, then Aerospatiale.

In Germany, despite the postwar restrictions, the heiritage reaches back to Bavarian Aircraft Works (BFW), which became Messerschmitt AG, and after a 2 decade hiatus became MBB and then Daimler Benz Aerospace. And let us not forget the Dutchman, Mr. Anthony Fokker, begun in 1912, who was instrumental not only with his company but in the growth of Junkers, two of the most important names in European airliner manufacturing from the early days of passenger travel. Fokker joined up with the Focke-Wulf team (in the airframe business since 1923). The civilian airframe operations of all of the above became Deutsche Airbus.

These two groups became Airbus, whom with the contracted assistance of Hawker Siddeley (later part of BAe) and CASA (building planes since 1930)designed, built, and brought to market the Airbus A300 in the space of 62 months.

And lest we suggest such a mash-up of companies hardly reflects the Boeing situation, it would do us well to remember that the Boeing we know is actually Boeing, Chance-Vought, Piasecki, Rockwell, Douglas, McDonnell, and North American.

All of this is to simply point out that in one form or another both companies have been making airplanes for over 80 years.

So pity Airbus for the meddling of European technocrats, but not for a lack of a distinguished heritage and longevity in the aviation business.

David
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
birdbrainz
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting Dank (Reply 4):
This also jives with...

A small correction: It's "jibe" not "jive," as in "This also jibes with..."

OK, I'll stop playing English teacher.  Smile

Also, I agree with what's said about the 748i not being compelling, as it won't be flying any sooner. There's no reason for EK to switch horses now.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting PEK18R36L (Reply 22):
And lest we suggest such a mash-up of companies hardly reflects the Boeing situation, it would do us well to remember that the Boeing we know is actually Boeing, Chance-Vought, Piasecki, Rockwell, Douglas, McDonnell, and North American.

Actually, most of Chance Vought wound up being split between Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and the modern-day Vought Aircraft. Much of the civil North American/Rockwell operations wound up with Spirit Aerospace (along with the civil Stearman operations).

[Edited 2006-11-08 16:20:46]
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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Revelation
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 7):
To get an 40 years old design instead of a totally new one? This would be a bad deal...

Well, at least the 40 year old design has the bugs worked out of it.
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
Adria
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
Well, at least the 40 year old design has the bugs worked out of it.

Well being almost 4 decades on the market this is the least you could expect from it Smile
 
NW727251ADV
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 17):
I undertstand what your saying here but everyone has to remember Airbus is still a young company compared with Boeing. Even if your more on B's side you've got to admit A have done very well considering their age and the competition.

While I like Airbus and you do have to admit they have done well, its only so much credit I can give them. They really haven't done anything "revolutionary" per se other than the world first twin-engine aircraft and being the first to incoporate fly-by-wire technology on commerical aircraft. You might as well say Airbus has only offered TWO aircraft since inception. Its entire widebody line-up consists of essentially one aircraft that was either stretched, shrunk, or had more or less engines. The A300/A310/A330/A340 are basically the same aircraft modified to meet different missions. The A318/A319/A320/A321 is the same aircraft too...again, stretched or shrunk to meet different capacity requirements.

Quoting Adria (Reply 18):
Since the production rate for the A320 is higher than for the 737 and since it outsold the 737 in 2005 (we don't know what will happen this year) the 737 is slowly losing ground...

The 737NG is "slowly losing ground" based on ONE YEAR of having less orders than the A320 even though Boeing sold more 737s last year than any other time its 40 year history??? Yea, you are obviously the voice of reasoning kid.  

Quoting Danny (Reply 19):
Classic 737 were well beaten by A320, then Boeing came up with NG and only managed to achieve balance on that market.

I'm sorry can you go into magical book of aviation facts and please cite with validity where and when Airbus sold more A320s than Boeing sold 737 Classics??? We have another statistical genius over here, guys.   

[Edited 2006-11-08 16:47:55]
NWA   N O R T H W E S T A I R L I N E S
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 17):

I undertstand what your saying here but everyone has to remember Airbus is still a young company compared with Boeing. Even if your more on B's side you've got to admit A have done very well considering their age and the competition.



Quoting PEK18R36L (Reply 22):
All of this is to simply point out that in one form or another both companies have been making airplanes for over 80 years.

So pity Airbus for the meddling of European technocrats, but not for a lack of a distinguished heritage and longevity in the aviation business.

 checkmark 

Not only that, Airbus has been in the "game" long enough where like-versus-like comparisons can be made..

Quoting Adria (Reply 18):
There are going to be more 747Fs than A380Fs but since there are many 744 pax I think we will see more conversions instead of new orders for the 747-8F. But in the pax market the A380 at this stage is clearly ahead...

I already stated that the 748I is behind, but is to be seen.....the A380 is cleary ahead right now.....lets see what happens in a few years...

Quoting Adria (Reply 18):

Don't forget that the A320 has survived two generations of 737s so Boeing didn't manage to "crush" the A320 even with the "new" NG. Since the production rate for the A320 is higher than for the 737 and since it outsold the 737 in 2005 (we don't know what will happen this year) the 737 is slowly losing ground...

Notice, I didn't say the B737 is crushing the A32X and notice I said that the B737 is basically "even" with the A32X during the past 10 years..

How about quoting me correctly please...

Quoting Danny (Reply 19):

There is nothing to support this claim. Classic 737 were well beaten by A320, then Boeing came up with NG and only managed to achieve balance on that market.

Do you read what I write? I said the 737 is beating the A32X this year and is basically even with the A32X during the past 10 years....i.e.-one year the A32x does better and another year the B737 does better...

My "crushing" comment was a comparison between the 747 and A380..
"Up the Irons!"
 
Adria
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 27):
The 737NG is "slowly losing ground" based on ONE YEAR of having less orders than the A320 even though Boeing sold more 737s last year than any other time its 40 year history??? Yea, you are obviously the voice of reasoning kid.

hehe, considering the A320 family outsold the 737 last year it doesn't mean anything if the 737 had it's best year ever. It's like racing in a race car all by yourself without any competition and at the end you would always finish first...so from your point of view that's good performace right? Wink
 
dank
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 23):
A small correction: It's "jibe" not "jive," as in "This also jibes with..."

OK, I'll stop playing English teacher.  

 ashamed  wee bit sleepy when i replied.

cheers.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 29):
hehe, considering the A320 family outsold the 737 last year it doesn't mean anything if the 737 had it's best year ever.

It means something to Boeing's bottom line. It also means something to Boeing's future products since it's more revenue to apply to developing and launching them.

And that should mean something to Airbus...

(Of course, the same applies to Airbus in winning so many A320 orders, as that helps their revenues, as well, especially since the A380 is going to seriously depress them through 2010 at the earliest).
 
zvezda
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 4):
If anything they want something that can carry more people than the 773ER, but with great range.

... and with lower CASM.

Quoting Adria (Reply 18):
Since the production rate for the A320 is higher than for the 737 and since it outsold the 737 in 2005 (we don't know what will happen this year) the 737 is slowly losing ground...

 Yeah sure Just look at the comparative sales for the last 12 months. Or the last 5 years. Or the last 10 years. There is no basis for asserting that the B737 is losing ground.
 
pygmalion
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:51 am

Okay, come on. The 747-8 is not 40 years old, neither is the 747-400, nor is the 737NG series. All of the airplanes have gone through a redesign in the last 10 years, some more than once. Sure there might be a few parts that were designed a long time ago... but only because it didnt make sense to update or change them as they are just fine thanks. The 737NG series has tech upgrades all the time. It must be that 40 year old HUD system you are talking about, or the flat pressure bulkhead.

The fuselage of the 747 has been redone many, many times. The wing is new for each new series and thats what drives aero improvements mostly, the wing, not the age of the numbering system. The 747-8F (or 8i) for that matter, will have FADEC engines, new optimized wing design, the updated wing to body fairing from the -400 series.... what "40 year old" part is hampering the design from being efficient?? Even the tooling in the factory has been replaced many times since the late 60's. The only thing 40 years old in the Everett factory is the bathrooms.

All the BS about either manufacturers having "old" designs is just that... BS
 
Danny
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 32):
Just look at the comparative sales for the last 12 months. Or the last 5 years. Or the last 10 years. There is no basis for asserting that the B737 is losing ground.

Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13). I said that it is a balanced market.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 27):
I'm sorry can you go into magical book of aviation facts and please cite with validity where and when Airbus sold more A320s than Boeing sold 737 Classics??? We have another statistical genius over here, guys.

Rude but wrong. Obvously I was not refering to all time sales which is not comparable but to a period when 737 classic was competing with 320. Ask United Airlines.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13).

no there wasn't any "assertions"..why don't you stop lying?  liar 

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
Quoting Danny (Reply 19):

There is nothing to support this claim. Classic 737 were well beaten by A320, then Boeing came up with NG and only managed to achieve balance on that market.

Do you read what I write? I said the 737 is beating the A32X this year and is basically even with the A32X during the past 10 years....i.e.-one year the A32x does better and another year the B737 does better...

My "crushing" comment was a comparison between the 747 and A380..
"Up the Irons!"
 
khobar
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RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13). I said that it is a balanced market.

Actually the assertion was that the "40 year design" 737 is beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years, as per reply 13 you refer to.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 17):
I undertstand what your saying here but everyone has to remember Airbus is still a young company compared with Boeing. Even if your more on B's side you've got to admit A have done very well considering their age and the competition.

Okay, let's see. They are going to be losing $6 billion over the next couple of years because of the delays to A380 program. They need to come up with $12 billion to come up with an answer to the hottest selling widebody ever. They are behind in orders for 2006 by about 400 airplanes. They need to come up with $ 1 billion to compensate for the A350 that will be charged to Q4. They have now had 3 CEO's in the last six months. Fed Ex just cancelled 10 A380 which might force their credit rating to slip. NO I cannot say that they have done well!
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
I already stated that the 748I is behind, but is to be seen.....the A380 is cleary ahead right now.....lets see what happens in a few years...

Clearly ahead in what? Losing money for their respective company? When you get to break even point (420 aircraft as of now... more if more delays) then you can say that they are ahead. Until then, the program is costing Airbus money to keep going. And in the end, making money is what the aircraft manufacturing business is all about.
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 9):
Old Timmy is prone to a few rants isn't he? It seems after he's shot his mouth off and realised he's shot himself in the foot at the same time, he comes out with another comment to try and shore up his position once again



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
In every industry, there are certain CEOs who like to be in the news everyday, out of hubris or just to keep their company in the headlines.

Remind you of certain things like: assigned seats, IFE, smaller and bigger aircraft, international routes?

A big mouth can get you a lot of places. Press is press, whether you say anything substantial or, rather, substantiated. Sending a team of engineers is a big thing, though what are they going to do? Are they going to find something out in the top secret Airbus file? No. What are they after? We need one of those engineers to speak out.

M
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 38):

Clearly ahead in what? Losing money for their respective company? When you get to break even point (420 aircraft as of now... more if more delays) then you can say that they are ahead. Until then, the program is costing Airbus money to keep going. And in the end, making money is what the aircraft manufacturing business is all about.

I was only comparing pax sales.... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
beech19
Posts: 887
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:30 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting PEK18R36L (Reply 22):
And lest we suggest such a mash-up of companies hardly reflects the Boeing situation, it would do us well to remember that the Boeing we know is actually Boeing, Chance-Vought, Piasecki, Rockwell, Douglas, McDonnell, and North American.

Um... but Boeing has been producing aircraft as Boeing since May 9, 1917 (it was "Pacific Aero Products Co" before that) Airbus has been Airbus for how long? 1970...

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 27):
The A300/A310/A330/A340 are basically the same aircraft modified to meet different missions. The A318/A319/A320/A321 is the same aircraft too...again, stretched or shrunk to meet different capacity requirements.

 checkmark 

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 33):
The only thing 40 years old in the Everett factory is the bathrooms.

Its quite disturbing actually... LOL

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):
Okay, let's see. They are going to be losing $6 billion over the next couple of years because of the delays to A380 program. They need to come up with $12 billion to come up with an answer to the hottest selling widebody ever. They are behind in orders for 2006 by about 400 airplanes. They need to come up with $ 1 billion to compensate for the A350 that will be charged to Q4. They have now had 3 CEO's in the last six months. Fed Ex just cancelled 10 A380 which might force their credit rating to slip. NO I cannot say that they have done well!

 checkmark 
KPAE via KBVY
 
nirvarma
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 11:08 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13). I said that it is a balanced market.

Did you even read reply 13? Because if you did you would notice it says...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?
 
777MechSys
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:49 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Pygmalion (Reply 33):
The only thing 40 years old in the Everett factory is the bathrooms.

Incorrect. There is tooling still being used on the 747 line that has been around since the very first 747.
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:11 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
Quoting Adria (Reply 7):
To get an 40 years old design instead of a totally new one? This would be a bad deal...

Well, at least the 40 year old design has the bugs worked out of it.

I think one can think of the 747 the same way one thinks of rear engine Porsche Carrerras, which are upgraded/renamed 911's. That is a classic and timeless design.

It is a design that has inherent advantages for both Cargo (bubble top, nose load), Passengers (size and visual appeal) and Speed (the thing is still the fastest commercial bird in the sky, and some pilots I heard push the thing into the transonic range at .9 Mach when they are not careful).

What a plane, 40 year old looks and all. I hope Wings does a tribute to it.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5065
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:19 am

I for one believes he's going to go through with the airplane. He said after the second delay that any further delays wold be unacceptable. Well we've had delay number three and he still hasn't cancelled but he also had to get a strong message accross to Airbus.

They've ordered 43 or these things and that's a lot. He does have every right to be angry since the delays screws with his expansion plans.

In the meantime he could use the 748I to nicely fill the gap between the 773ERs and the A380s.

Now that he's barking very loudly because of the delays it seems to irritate the Airbus supporters. Funny, I wonder what they were saying about him when he placed the 43 A380 orders?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Nirvarma (Reply 42):
Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13). I said that it is a balanced market.

Did you even read reply 13? Because if you did you would notice it says...

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 13):
Why is the "40 year design" 737 beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years?



Quoting Khobar (Reply 36):
Quoting Danny (Reply 34):
Don't turn it upside down. The assertion was that 737 is beating 320 hands down (reply 13). I said that it is a balanced market.

Actually the assertion was that the "40 year design" 737 is beating the newer A32X model this year and is basically even over the past 10 years, as per reply 13 you refer to.

Thanks for the support..I'm glad most understood what I was saying....and not try to spin things.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
Adria
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 28):
Notice, I didn't say the B737 is crushing the A32X and notice I said that the B737 is basically "even" with the A32X during the past 10 years..

How about quoting me correctly please...

Did I say that you said something about the 737 crushing the A320?? I suggest you read my posts...


But back to topic...Boeing had a chance to make a market leader in the A320/737 segment but the A320 remains the No.1...
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 47):
But back to topic...Boeing had a chance to make a market leader in the A320/737 segment but the A320 remains the No.1...

I wouldn't call it "number 1" with having about 50% of the market, just like its rival...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Emirates Tim Clark On EK A380 Order..

Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Adria (Reply 47):
But back to topic...Boeing had a chance to make a market leader in the A320/737 segment but the A320 remains the No.1...

Based on...what exactly?